Re: Recommend a good hybrid (UK)

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by James Silverton, Sep 6, 2008.

  1. Shawn wrote on Sat, 06 Sep 2008 16:38:27 -0400:

    I don't intend to be sarcastic but "hybrid" is a new term for me if it
    describes a non-mirror digital slr. Has it been generally accepted?
    There is a not very active r.p.d.zlr group that seems to cover them but
    I would have thought that the existing r.p.d.slr-systems would be
    enough. "Reflex" does not seem to require an analog mirror to me.

    --

    James Silverton
    Potomac, Maryland

    Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
     
    James Silverton, Sep 6, 2008
    #1
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  2. James Silverton

    dj_nme Guest

    James Silverton wrote:
    > Shawn wrote on Sat, 06 Sep 2008 16:38:27 -0400:
    >
    > I don't intend to be sarcastic but "hybrid" is a new term for me if it
    > describes a non-mirror digital slr. Has it been generally accepted?


    On the dpreview forums the term "EVIL" camera (electronic viewfinder
    interchangeable lens) has been used for a few years to describe this
    type of camera in various discussions.
    Phil Askley put up (on Tuesday, 5 August) the Olympus announcement about
    the proposed Micro FourThirds system
    <http://www.dpreview.com/news/0808/08080501microfourthirds.asp>, but
    there still is no manufacturer defined term for this general type of camera.

    > There is a not very active r.p.d.zlr group


    It's been dead almost since it was created.
    Well to be more accurate, more like less than a few months after it's
    creation all the original posting (there is still some cross-posting) to
    it petered out completely.
    Considering that the term "zlr camera" was coined by Olympus to describe
    their IS series of fixed (non-interchangeable) zoom lens film SLR
    cameras and used the same term to describe their fixed zoom lens DSLR
    cameras (such as the D600L and E-20), there must have been some
    resistance to using the same term for EVF digicams (or "bridge"
    digicams) which are externally shaped and styled to vaguely resemble a
    SLR camera (a good example is the Fujifilm FinePix S100FS) but have no
    actual optical reflex viewfinder.

    > that seems to cover them but
    > I would have thought that the existing r.p.d.slr-systems would be
    > enough. "Reflex" does not seem to require an analog mirror to me.


    There is no analogue of a mirror in a SLR camera (film or digital),
    there is an actual mirror (or other reflective surface, such as a
    beamsplitter prism as found in the Olympus E-10 and E-20) to redirect
    the image onto the focus screen in the viewfinder.
     
    dj_nme, Sep 7, 2008
    #2
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  3. dj_nme wrote on Sun, 07 Sep 2008 13:56:40 +1000:

    > James Silverton wrote:
    >> that seems to cover them but I would have thought that the existing
    >> r.p.d.slr-systems
    >> would be enough. "Reflex" does not seem to require an analog mirror
    >> to me.


    >There is no analogue of a mirror in a SLR camera (film or digital),
    >there is an actual mirror (or other reflective surface, such as a
    >beamsplitter prism as found in the Olympus E-10 and E-20)
    > to redirect the image onto the focus screen in the viewfinder.


    Fair enough but I was, perhaps imprecisely, using "analog" in the sense
    of a non-digital, mechanical method to direct the image to the eyepiece.
    I don't how Olympus' semireflecting mirror would be classified.
    ..

    --

    James Silverton
    Potomac, Maryland

    Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
     
    James Silverton, Sep 7, 2008
    #3
  4. James Silverton

    dj_nme Guest

    James Silverton wrote:
    > dj_nme wrote on Sun, 07 Sep 2008 13:56:40 +1000:
    >
    >> James Silverton wrote:
    >>> that seems to cover them but I would have thought that the existing
    >>> r.p.d.slr-systems
    >>> would be enough. "Reflex" does not seem to require an analog mirror
    >>> to me.

    >
    >> There is no analogue of a mirror in a SLR camera (film or digital),
    >> there is an actual mirror (or other reflective surface, such as a
    >> beamsplitter prism as found in the Olympus E-10 and E-20)
    >> to redirect the image onto the focus screen in the viewfinder.

    >
    > Fair enough but I was, perhaps imprecisely, using "analog" in the sense
    > of a non-digital, mechanical method to direct the image to the eyepiece.
    > I don't how Olympus' semireflecting mirror would be classified.


    The same as the Canon Pellix and EOS-1n RS, they're still SLR cameras.
    Even if the lens can't be interchanged, as in the case of the Olympus
    ZLR cameras.
     
    dj_nme, Sep 7, 2008
    #4
  5. dj_nme wrote on Mon, 08 Sep 2008 00:11:02 +1000:

    > James Silverton wrote:
    >> dj_nme wrote on Sun, 07 Sep 2008 13:56:40 +1000:
    >>
    >>> James Silverton wrote:
    >>>> that seems to cover them but I would have thought that the existing
    >>>> r.p.d.slr-systems would be enough. "Reflex" does
    >>>> not seem to require an analog mirror to me.

    >>
    >>> There is no analogue of a mirror in a SLR camera (film or
    >>> digital), there is an actual mirror (or other reflective
    >>> surface, such as a beamsplitter prism as found in the
    >>> Olympus E-10 and E-20) to redirect the image onto the focus screen
    >>> in the viewfinder.

    >>
    >> Fair enough but I was, perhaps imprecisely, using "analog" in
    >> the sense of a non-digital, mechanical method to direct the
    >> image to the eyepiece. I don't how Olympus' semireflecting
    >> mirror would be classified.



    >The same as the Canon Pellix and EOS-1n RS, they're still SLR
    >cameras.Even if the lens can't be interchanged, as in the case of the
    >Olympus ZLR cameras.


    No argument! I suppose the distinction might be between mechanical (eg.
    moving mirror) and digital reflex cameras. I don't think there is a
    digital viewfinder that fully compares with a mirror but it will happen,
    I believe.

    --

    James Silverton
    Potomac, Maryland

    Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
     
    James Silverton, Sep 7, 2008
    #5
  6. James Silverton

    dj_nme Guest

    James Silverton wrote:
    > dj_nme wrote on Mon, 08 Sep 2008 00:11:02 +1000:
    >
    >> James Silverton wrote:

    <snip>
    >>>
    >>> Fair enough but I was, perhaps imprecisely, using "analog" in
    >>> the sense of a non-digital, mechanical method to direct the
    >>> image to the eyepiece. I don't how Olympus' semireflecting
    >>> mirror would be classified.

    >
    >
    >> The same as the Canon Pellix and EOS-1n RS, they're still SLR
    >> cameras.Even if the lens can't be interchanged, as in the case of the
    >> Olympus ZLR cameras.

    >
    > No argument! I suppose the distinction might be between mechanical (eg.
    > moving mirror) and digital reflex cameras. I don't think there is a
    > digital viewfinder that fully compares with a mirror but it will happen,
    > I believe.


    Maybe.
    Hopefully the Olympus Mu4/3 cameras will have something suitable?

    The best EVF that I've used is on the Konica-Minolta Dimage A2, it
    was/is 640x480 pixel (300k pixels, but marketed as 900K pixels by
    counting the RGB sub-pixels) and even that really is nowhere close to
    being useful for manual focus without the "focus zoom" trick that a lot
    of this type of camera (bridge/EVF digicam) have.

    A proper replacement for an optical TTL viewfinder (as found in a [d]slr
    camera) would have to be of very high resolution.
    Perhaps at least 1200k pixels (at least twice the linear resolution of
    the A2's EVF) and maybe a lot more to be as good as an average SLR
    viewfinder.
     
    dj_nme, Sep 7, 2008
    #6
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