Re: project developers get the sack after converting to Open Source says ewic

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by billwg, Oct 29, 2005.

  1. billwg

    billwg Guest

    "Daeron" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    on Oct 29, 4:19 am Erik Funkenbusch wrote:


    > It's like these people all disappear right after they convert
    > or in the process of converting? A suspicious person might
    > conclude that the people in charge of the project got sacked
    > and the company clammed up about the entire process.


    Given your talent at dredging things up on the Internet why haven't
    *you* produced any such evidence of people getting sacked or a project
    failing. Why aren't these imagonary failed projects not appearing on
    the Fast.Fud site?

    Erik is right and you know it. Take for example the linux progress
    poster child, i.e. the conversion by the city of Munich to linux. Three
    years later and they haven't converted the first machine. They can't
    figure out what they need to do and their consultants seem to be unable
    to get anyone to be the first to volunteer. All talk, no delivery.
    Meanwhile, they continue to run on NT4!

    Some proud history! LOL!!!
     
    billwg, Oct 29, 2005
    #1
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  2. __/ [billwg] on Saturday 29 October 2005 16:27 \__

    >
    > "Daeron" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > on Oct 29, 4:19 am Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >
    >
    >> It's like these people all disappear right after they convert
    >> or in the process of converting? A suspicious person might
    >> conclude that the people in charge of the project got sacked
    >> and the company clammed up about the entire process.

    >
    > Given your talent at dredging things up on the Internet why haven't
    > *you* produced any such evidence of people getting sacked or a project
    > failing. Why aren't these imagonary failed projects not appearing on
    > the Fast.Fud site?
    >
    > Erik is right and you know it. Take for example the linux progress
    > poster child, i.e. the conversion by the city of Munich to linux. Three
    > years later and they haven't converted the first machine. They can't
    > figure out what they need to do and their consultants seem to be unable
    > to get anyone to be the first to volunteer. All talk, no delivery.
    > Meanwhile, they continue to run on NT4!
    >
    > Some proud history! LOL!!!


    Flatfish.

    What are you doing crossposting here? Go back to COLA.

    Roy
     
    Roy Schestowitz, Oct 29, 2005
    #2
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  3. billwg

    Guest

    billwg wrote:
    > "Daeron" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > on Oct 29, 4:19 am Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >
    > > It's like these people all disappear right after they convert
    > > or in the process of converting? A suspicious person might
    > > conclude that the people in charge of the project got sacked
    > > and the company clammed up about the entire process.


    Keep in mind that anyone who has accepted the terms of the EULA, CULA,
    CELA, OEMLA, GLA (End user license agreement, Corporate User License
    Agreement, Corporate/Enterprise License Agreement, Original Equipment
    License Agreement, Governement License Agreement) has agreed not to
    publish any benchmarks without Microsoft's prior written permission.
    Legally speaking, a benchmark is ANY direct comparison between two
    competing products. In this case, between Windows and Linux.

    So what does it take to get that written approval? First, you have to
    sign a nondisclosure agreement which prevents you from telling anyone,
    including federal investigators, what you had to do to get this
    approval. Then, you send a copy of your benchmarks, including all of
    the test parameters, data collected, and the conclusions you intend to
    publish. At this point, Microsoft will reccomend a few revisions -
    possibly even providing you with a revised draft as a "guideline".

    In some cases, Microsoft may simply have you change the filters and
    conclusions. For example, if the TCO for Windows is lower in the first
    year, but the TCO for Linux is better in the second year, then
    Microsoft will have you limit your data to the first year, and have you
    put a caveat "Linux costs were somewhat lower in the second year",
    usually in your final paragraph, almost as an afterthought.

    Keep in mind that the final approved report must be legally accurate,
    but can also be deliberately and wilfully misleading as long as it is
    legally accurate.

    Another example is the MindCraft benchmarks. In this case, the test
    originally published by Mindcraft, showing that Linux was 50% faster
    than Windows NT couldn't be challenged or filtered, so Microsoft had
    MindCraft run a new set of tests using two machines carefully
    configured to make Linux deadlock as much as possible while Windows
    continued to run smoothely if slowly. There was a caveat at the very
    end of the report indicating that this was an unusual configuration,
    but most readers didn't get to that paragraph and didn't follow the
    link to the details.

    > Given your talent at dredging things up on the Internet why haven't
    > *you* produced any such evidence of people getting sacked or a project
    > failing. Why aren't these imagonary failed projects not appearing on
    > the Fast.Fud site?


    What is the penalty for publishing a benchmark without Microsoft's
    permission? First, all of your licenses to all Microsoft products can
    be revoked. Once they are revoked, you have the option of removing
    them from all computers, or repurchasing them. As a result, it's quite
    possible that the big-mouth who published an benchmark without his
    employer's permission would be sacked immediately. This is much
    preferable to having to spend $millions repurchasing licenses you have
    already purchased - only this time at full retail price.

    There have been a few cases where a company has taken the second
    option, simply removing Windows from every PC and replacing it with
    Linux. These customers are quite happy to tell their story, but it's
    only good for about 3-4 weeks of coverage, and then Microsoft has some
    10 person small business tell their horror story of how they failed at
    switching to Linux because they didn't have any Linux people.

    > Erik is right and you know it. Take for example the linux progress
    > poster child, i.e. the conversion by the city of Munich to linux. Three
    > years later and they haven't converted the first machine. They can't
    > figure out what they need to do and their consultants seem to be unable
    > to get anyone to be the first to volunteer. All talk, no delivery.
    > Meanwhile, they continue to run on NT4!


    There are two things to note here. First, they are on NT4, they didn't
    need to upgrade to Windows 2000, or Windows XP. Second, under the NT4
    license, they can run their software under WINE or Xen or Bochs.
    However, they still can't talk about how they have made the migration,
    or any other benchmark related material.

    This silence could be an indication that things are going BETTER than
    expected, and that Linux IS working. A total defeat would be if Munich
    decided to kill Linux entirely and replace all of their Windows NT 4.0
    machines with Windows XP.

    > Some proud history! LOL!!!
     
    , Oct 29, 2005
    #3
  4. billwg

    Daeron Guest

    project developers get the sack after converting to Open Source says
    ewic
    on Oct 29, 7:03 pm wrote:

    <snip>

    > This silence could be an indication that things are going BETTER
    > than expected, and that Linux IS working. A total defeat would be if
    > Munich decided to kill Linux entirely and replace all of their Windows
    > NT 4.0 machines with Windows XP.


    Amazon.com .. has a market capitalisation of $30 billion .. Aug 2003

    Boscov's Department Stores .. a 36-store chain with $US 1 Billion in
    annual sales ..

    http://www.infoworld.com/articles/fe/xml/01/10/29/011029fecase.html

    First Boston ..

    http://www.redhat.com/en_us/USA/home/company/news/prarchive/2002/press_creditsuisse.html

    The City of Largo, Florida ..

    http://www.newsforge.com/business/02/12/04/2346215.shtml

    Ernie Ball ..

    http://news.com.com/Rockin on without Microsoft/2008-1082_3-5065859.html

    The BBC News website - under the bonnet ..

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4606719.stm

    Royal Sun Alliance, Deutsche Bank, SunGard, T-online and Schwab ..

    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/25/1059084186065.html

    UBS Investment Bank ..

    Canara Bank of India ..

    http://www.osdir.com/Article7706.phtml

    First National Bank of Omaha ..

    http://www.computerworld.com/industrytopics/financial/story/0,10801,99667,00.html

    KeyWest Bank and Bristol-Meyers Squibb Co .. E-Trade Financial Corp and
    Citigroup ..

    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1822669,00.asp

    Cendant Corp.'s Travel Distribution Services division in Centennial,
    Colo ..

    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1821322,00.asp

    Weta Digital ..

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1046864,00.asp

    What Makes Pixar Run? ..

    http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/34107.html

    Industrial Light and Magic ..

    http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6011

    Los Alamos ..

    http://www.lanl.gov/news/releases/archive/02-106.shtml

    Disney is the last of the big dogs to announce coming over to Linux.
    Digital Domain, Dreamworks, ILM, Pixar ..

    http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT7096363910.html

    The European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts (ECMWF) has
    installed a Linux cluster ..

    http://8LN.org/$p5
    http://www.computerweekly.com/Artic...eragencytopilotopen-sourceoperatingsystem.htm

    MainConcept is also one of the larges vendors of Linux video editing ..

    http://www.mainconcept.com/

    Microsoft's Halo movie will be produced in Wellington, New Zealand by
    servers running the open-source Linux operating system ..

    http://software.newsforge.com/newsvac/05/10/10/0058251.shtml
     
    Daeron, Oct 29, 2005
    #4
  5. billwg

    billwg Guest

    "Daeron" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > project developers get the sack after converting to Open Source says
    >
    > Boscov's Department Stores .. a 36-store chain with $US 1 Billion in
    > annual sales ..
    >
    > http://www.infoworld.com/articles/fe/xml/01/10/29/011029fecase.html
    >

    Seems confused. First "Boscov's IT budget is typically just 1.2 percent
    to 1.4 percent of its $1 billion in sales.", which means they spend 12
    to 14 million dollars a year on their IT efforts.

    Then they had some 50 production servers and 50 "others": "Boscov's was
    adding an average of one server per month the last few years, Roberts
    says, swelling its production servers to about 50, plus another 50
    nonproduction servers."

    Now that comes to an annual budget of $140K for each server, even the
    "non-production" ones. That seems a little high to me! And it takes an
    IT guy per 10 servers? Our guys handle 100s apiece.

    Now he buys a new mainframe that hosts 100 linux servers which "which
    will gradually replace the NT servers over the next year." Doesn't look
    so good if linux can only go one on one against NT! Imagine what
    trouble they would have with Win2K3! I think Roberts is probably an
    idiot.



    > First Boston ..
    >
    > http://www.redhat.com/en_us/USA/home/company/news/prarchive/2002/press_creditsuisse.html
    >
    > The City of Largo, Florida ..
    >
    > http://www.newsforge.com/business/02/12/04/2346215.shtml
    >
    > Ernie Ball ..
    >
    > http://news.com.com/Rockin on without Microsoft/2008-1082_3-5065859.html
    >
    > The BBC News website - under the bonnet ..
    >
    > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4606719.stm
    >
    > Royal Sun Alliance, Deutsche Bank, SunGard, T-online and Schwab ..
    >
    > http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/25/1059084186065.html
    >
    > UBS Investment Bank ..
    >
    > Canara Bank of India ..
    >
    > http://www.osdir.com/Article7706.phtml
    >
    > First National Bank of Omaha ..
    >
    > http://www.computerworld.com/industrytopics/financial/story/0,10801,99667,00.html
    >
    > KeyWest Bank and Bristol-Meyers Squibb Co .. E-Trade Financial Corp
    > and
    > Citigroup ..
    >
    > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1822669,00.asp
    >
    > Cendant Corp.'s Travel Distribution Services division in Centennial,
    > Colo ..
    >
    > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1821322,00.asp
    >
    > Weta Digital ..
    >
    > http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1046864,00.asp
    >
    > What Makes Pixar Run? ..
    >
    > http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/34107.html
    >
    > Industrial Light and Magic ..
    >
    > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6011
    >
    > Los Alamos ..
    >
    > http://www.lanl.gov/news/releases/archive/02-106.shtml
    >
    > Disney is the last of the big dogs to announce coming over to Linux.
    > Digital Domain, Dreamworks, ILM, Pixar ..
    >
    > http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT7096363910.html
    >
    > The European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts (ECMWF) has
    > installed a Linux cluster ..
    >
    > http://8LN.org/$p5
    > http://www.computerweekly.com/Artic...eragencytopilotopen-sourceoperatingsystem.htm
    >
    > MainConcept is also one of the larges vendors of Linux video editing
    > ..
    >
    > http://www.mainconcept.com/
    >
    > Microsoft's Halo movie will be produced in Wellington, New Zealand by
    > servers running the open-source Linux operating system ..
    >
    > http://software.newsforge.com/newsvac/05/10/10/0058251.shtml
    >
     
    billwg, Oct 29, 2005
    #5
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