Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by #2 Aluxe, Oct 19, 2006.

  1. #2 Aluxe

    #2 Aluxe Guest

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:25:01 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
    > You can't search usenet for IPs.


    Hi Mark McIntyre,

    Huh? Of course you can. You're pretty exasperating to converse with.

    For example, in the next thirty seconds, I can go back fifteen years on
    google to find the exact IP address I used on a particular post to
    alt.personals (since my NNTP posting host is actually my router's IP
    address).

    If I can do that in half a minute, a script kiddie can do thousands of
    those kind of searches in that same minute.

    Can't you?
     
    #2 Aluxe, Oct 19, 2006
    #1
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  2. #2 Aluxe

    Dana Guest

    "#2 Aluxe" <> wrote in message
    news:m15nlb3pua0h$.17k8fg61f2j4l$...
    > On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:25:01 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
    > > You can't search usenet for IPs.

    >
    > Hi Mark McIntyre,
    >
    > Huh? Of course you can. You're pretty exasperating to converse with.
    >
    > For example, in the next thirty seconds, I can go back fifteen years on
    > google to find the exact IP address I used on a particular post to
    > alt.personals (since my NNTP posting host is actually my router's IP
    > address).


    Did you have the same router 15 years ago?

    >
    > If I can do that in half a minute, a script kiddie can do thousands of
    > those kind of searches in that same minute.
    >
    > Can't you?
     
    Dana, Oct 19, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. #2 Aluxe

    #2 Aluxe Guest

    On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:03:26 -0800, Dana wrote:
    >> For example, in the next thirty seconds, I can go back fifteen years on
    >> google to find the exact IP address I used on a particular post to
    >> alt.personals


    > Did you have the same router 15 years ago?


    Hi Dana,

    Now you're finally agreeing with me!

    It's precisely because I had a DIFFERENT IP ADDRESS 15 years ago that we
    can't easily collect all my posts from then to now.
     
    #2 Aluxe, Oct 19, 2006
    #3
  4. #2 Aluxe

    Dana Guest

    "#2 Aluxe" <> wrote in message
    news:1n8hyc3gjcqee.1gaadrp3z6wuu$...
    > On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:03:26 -0800, Dana wrote:
    > >> For example, in the next thirty seconds, I can go back fifteen years on
    > >> google to find the exact IP address I used on a particular post to
    > >> alt.personals

    >
    > > Did you have the same router 15 years ago?

    >
    > Hi Dana,
    >
    > Now you're finally agreeing with me!


    Well no, not really.
    I still say changing your IP or MAC on your PC is doing nothing to increase
    your privacy from those who really want to dig into your life.

    >
    > It's precisely because I had a DIFFERENT IP ADDRESS 15 years ago that we
    > can't easily collect all my posts from then to now.


    If someone wanted to, they could. and that is the point people are trying to
    make, more than likely you would not be a target of such people. Unless of
    course you are a politician like Foley found out.
     
    Dana, Oct 19, 2006
    #4
  5. #2 Aluxe

    #2 Aluxe Guest

    On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:49:57 -0800, Dana wrote:
    > I still say changing your IP or MAC on your PC is doing nothing to increase
    > your privacy from those who really want to dig into your life.


    Hi Dana,
    I think we already agreed otherwise in a few cases (did we not?).

    For example, I think we have established (or at least nobody has reliably
    refuted) that taking the five seconds to change your wireless card's MAC
    address before connecting at a public hot spot is additive to privacy. (Did
    we not?)

    Also, you tacitly underscored my point that changing the IP address of my
    router definately makes it harder for someone to easily connect my posts to
    alt.personals vs my separate posts to comp.security.firewalls vs my posts
    to Bell Laboratories. As such, the time it takes to change the IP address
    is also additive to privacy. (Did we not?)

    It's important that we agree or agree to disagree on these two points:
    POINT 1: Changing MAC address is additive to privacy in public hotspots.
    POINT 2: Changing IP address is additive to privacy in those cases where
    the user's NNTP posting host is their IP address.

    This whole thread basically leaves us with three technical questions:
    1. Does the MAC really have a bit which indicates it has been changed?
    (I think it does ... but I await confirmation from the group)
    2. How can I eliminate the NNTP Posting Host line in my nntp headers?
    (I think it can be eliminated as Dana and Mark seemed to have done so)
    3. How can I force the router to dial into the PPPoE on software demand?
    (I am following instructions previously posted to see if that works)

    This should be a simple technical discussion ... not an emotional paranoia
    discussion.
     
    #2 Aluxe, Oct 19, 2006
    #5
  6. #2 Aluxe

    Dana Guest

    "#2 Aluxe" <> wrote in message
    news:1tn4zhjqngy9n$...
    > On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:49:57 -0800, Dana wrote:
    > > I still say changing your IP or MAC on your PC is doing nothing to

    increase
    > > your privacy from those who really want to dig into your life.

    >
    > Hi Dana,
    > I think we already agreed otherwise in a few cases (did we not?).
    >
    > For example, I think we have established (or at least nobody has reliably
    > refuted) that taking the five seconds to change your wireless card's MAC
    > address before connecting at a public hot spot is additive to privacy.

    (Did
    > we not?)


    This is still up in the air. I have never used a public hotspot, so I do not
    know if there is some kind of registration process, even if it is free.

    >
    > Also, you tacitly underscored my point that changing the IP address of my
    > router definately makes it harder for someone to easily connect my posts

    to
    > alt.personals vs my separate posts to comp.security.firewalls vs my posts
    > to Bell Laboratories. As such, the time it takes to change the IP address
    > is also additive to privacy. (Did we not?)


    No. You made the remark about going back 15 years, so I as a joke asked if
    you had the same router 15 years ago, knowing full well you were probably on
    a dial up at 2400, or 9600 speed. I remember those days as well.
    >
    > It's important that we agree or agree to disagree on these two points:
    > POINT 1: Changing MAC address is additive to privacy in public hotspots.


    If they are pay services: NO
    if they are free I want to say yes, but I need to see if there is a
    registration process, so I am going with a maybe.

    > POINT 2: Changing IP address is additive to privacy in those cases where
    > the user's NNTP posting host is their IP address.


    No, as there are other ways just as easy to track your newsgroup post, all
    one needs to do is look at your path.
    >
    > This whole thread basically leaves us with three technical questions:
    > 1. Does the MAC really have a bit which indicates it has been changed?


    Yes and no. There is a global/local bit wich tells if you are using the
    burned in address (global) or a locally assigned (you make one up) address.

    > (I think it does ... but I await confirmation from the group)
    > 2. How can I eliminate the NNTP Posting Host line in my nntp headers?


    Your reader may allow you to modify your headers.
    I am doing nothing to mine, so either OE does not send it, or my news server
    is stripping it off.

    > (I think it can be eliminated as Dana and Mark seemed to have done so)
    > 3. How can I force the router to dial into the PPPoE on software demand?
    > (I am following instructions previously posted to see if that works)
    >
    > This should be a simple technical discussion ... not an emotional paranoia
    > discussion.
     
    Dana, Oct 19, 2006
    #6
  7. #2 Aluxe

    #2 Aluxe Guest

    On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 22:29:08 -0800, Dana wrote:
    >> For example, I think we have established (or at least nobody has reliably
    >> refuted) that taking the five seconds to change your wireless card's MAC
    >> address before connecting at a public hot spot is additive to privacy.

    > (Did we not?)
    >
    > This is still up in the air. I have never used a public hotspot, so I do not
    > know if there is some kind of registration process, even if it is free.


    Hi Dana,
    I can definately say I have posted from public wireless hot spots which do
    NOT require any registration process whatsoever.

    Many hotels, for example, have free public wireless access in their
    lobbies.

    Of course, some hotspots do have a registration process ... the clincher
    being their need to obtain money from you (generally by credit card) ...
    which we all know identifies you to your social security number which
    basically provides your whole life history to almost anyone who can use a
    telephone to ask.

    So, I think we've definitively established the following:

    a. Does changing the MAC address leave a tell-tale change bit?
    Yes. But that in and of itself is not subtractive to privacy.

    b. Is changing a MAC at a public hotspot additive to privacy?
    Probably.
    Especially if the public hot spot requires no other registration.

    c. Is removal of the NNTP Posting Host additive to privacy?
    Maybe. I certainly believe so; but others are not so sure
    (however, they are certainly hung up on the ISP knowing who
    we are which was never the question so their answers are
    suspect once you consider they are answering a different
    question than that which was posed).

    Given that I think we have determined the above to as great a degree as we
    can (bearing in mind the hugely emotional aspect of some people's
    postings), I think I'm left with determining the following.

    1. How can I remove the NNTP Posting Host from my posts?
    (I'm installing OE and Agent as we speak to test one hypothesis.)

    2. How can I force the router to dial into the PPPoE on demand?
    (I'm testing one helpful sugestion as we speak.)

    3. If you change the MAC address & change it back ... is the tattletale bit
    still set?
    (???)
     
    #2 Aluxe, Oct 19, 2006
    #7
  8. #2 Aluxe

    Warren Oates Guest

    In article <1tn4zhjqngy9n$>,
    #2 Aluxe <> wrote:

    > 2. How can I eliminate the NNTP Posting Host line in my nntp headers?
    > (I think it can be eliminated as Dana and Mark seemed to have done so)


    You can't override that header. It's put there by your isp (or your news
    service). You can subsrcibe to a private news service. Look at my
    NNTP-posting-host; you won't get my real IP without a court order or
    some serious social engineering. Pretending to be a lawyer won't work.
    --
    W. Oates
    Teal'c: He is concealing something.
    O'Neil: Like what?
    Teal'c: I am unsure, he is concealing it.
     
    Warren Oates, Oct 19, 2006
    #8
  9. > 1. How can I remove the NNTP Posting Host from my posts?
    > (I'm installing OE and Agent as we speak to test one hypothesis.)


    If you *really* want to change/remove your NNTP posting host, then get
    yourself a linux server and a real netnews connection and a
    cooperative site that will forward your newsfeed into the usenet
    stream. That's the underlying technology, and if you do that, you can
    spoof any news connection you like. In the "old" days, that's the way
    we all needed to get our news into the queue. The only difference is
    that most posters worked for companies or went to schools who did that
    step for them (i.e. that was part of the system administrator's job).
    In recent years, ISPs have taken up that role. So, when you buy an
    AOL or NetZero or Charter or Verizon account, they have the System
    Administrator that does that job. Moreover, things like POP3 and NNTP
    have allowed them to easily extend that access onto the typical users
    Windows desktop. However, the old way, didn't go away. It's still
    there.

    However, you are not likely to get the privacy desire both for free
    and with almost no effort. that's why people have been so "down" on
    your idea of changing your IP. The system isn't setup to do that. It
    doesn't provide any real value.

    I don't know what you have posted on alt.personals and am not
    interested enough to find out. Moreover, if I did find something
    interesting you posted on alt.personals, I wouldn't go looking for
    other postings on the internet to locate more information about you.
    That would be slow inefficient amd mostly pointless.

    In particular, I wouldn't look by IP address, because most IP
    addresses are not specific to one person, most of them are connected
    to large sites with lots of users. The fact that yours happens to be
    your router (are you sure of that? and certain that there is not one
    NNTP host for your entire ISP--that's how my ISP works), is just an
    artifact that is at most mildly interesting.

    If you want more privacy and more security, you can get it by paying
    for it or by doing "hard work" and learning the way the network
    actually works. And to do so, you really should get yourself an "open
    source" platform (e.g. linux or netbsd or ...) and configure it
    yourself.

    I have done both. I don't read news or mail on my own computer, but
    instead login to a machine with professional administrators that take
    care of the security. That way, I don't get viruses (at least not by
    that avenue). I also have my own linux box where I can actually study
    how things work, and change them to work the way I want. If I wanted
    to masquerade at someone else at some other site, having my own box
    and understanding it, would allow me to do it. However, I can't
    imagine why I would want to be someone else (or even be anonymous).
    The only people who I don't want contacting me, don't contact me by
    knowing who I am, they are telemarketeers and spammers, who are simply
    sending bulk junk to everyone. Those who know who I am rarely send
    me useless stuff.

    That being said, if you really do post on alt.personals (seeking some
    sort of relationship I would presume), then you would be much better
    paying more money (or doing more work) and getting some real
    anonimity. You are not going to get enough anonymity from changing
    your IP to make it worthwhile. That's like taking a shower in a
    public square fountain and then deciding that the next public square
    over is "more private". Yeah, right....

    By the way, changing your MAC address at a public hotspot isn't going
    to add that much to your privacy--especially if you go to the same
    hotspot all the time. Most hotspots don't preserve MAC address
    information over extended periods of time--it isn't useful information
    to keep. No one cares that it is you posting something, unless you are
    "important" in your own right (or what you are posting is important in
    its own right). And, in either of those cases, the interested people
    will come after YOU, not after some MAC or IP address.

    If you haven't noticed, most of the technical content in this thread,
    has not been about giving you ways to achieve what you want, but
    instead trying to explain why what you think you want is not worth
    having, because it doesn't get you what you really want.

    So, if you want to change your MAC address and post from a hot-spot
    thinking you will be more anonymous, go ahead. If you give me reason
    to track you down, it won't even slow me down. The real information
    to find you isn't there (even if it is a posting that gets me first
    interested), and I wouldn't bother looking there.

    If you are posting on the internet, presumably you want to be read.
    If you want to be read, then you do things that make you easy to find.
    Trying to be anonymous and public at the same time is an oxymoron.

    Hope this helps,
    -Chris

    *****************************************************************************
    Chris Clark Internet :
    Compiler Resources, Inc. Web Site : http://world.std.com/~compres
    23 Bailey Rd voice : (508) 435-5016
    Berlin, MA 01503 USA fax : (978) 838-0263 (24 hours)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Chris F Clark, Oct 19, 2006
    #9
  10. #2 Aluxe

    Dana Guest

    "Chris F Clark" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > > 1. How can I remove the NNTP Posting Host from my posts?
    > > (I'm installing OE and Agent as we speak to test one hypothesis.)

    >
    > If you *really* want to change/remove your NNTP posting host, then get
    > yourself a linux server and a real netnews connection and a
    > cooperative site that will forward your newsfeed into the usenet
    > stream. That's the underlying technology, and if you do that, you can
    > spoof any news connection you like. In the "old" days, that's the way
    > we all needed to get our news into the queue. The only difference is
    > that most posters worked for companies or went to schools who did that
    > step for them (i.e. that was part of the system administrator's job).
    > In recent years, ISPs have taken up that role. So, when you buy an
    > AOL or NetZero or Charter or Verizon account, they have the System
    > Administrator that does that job. Moreover, things like POP3 and NNTP
    > have allowed them to easily extend that access onto the typical users
    > Windows desktop. However, the old way, didn't go away. It's still
    > there.
    >
    > However, you are not likely to get the privacy desire both for free
    > and with almost no effort. that's why people have been so "down" on
    > your idea of changing your IP. The system isn't setup to do that. It
    > doesn't provide any real value.
    >
    > I don't know what you have posted on alt.personals and am not
    > interested enough to find out. Moreover, if I did find something
    > interesting you posted on alt.personals, I wouldn't go looking for
    > other postings on the internet to locate more information about you.
    > That would be slow inefficient amd mostly pointless.
    >
    > In particular, I wouldn't look by IP address, because most IP
    > addresses are not specific to one person, most of them are connected
    > to large sites with lots of users. The fact that yours happens to be
    > your router (are you sure of that? and certain that there is not one
    > NNTP host for your entire ISP--that's how my ISP works), is just an
    > artifact that is at most mildly interesting.
    >
    > If you want more privacy and more security, you can get it by paying
    > for it or by doing "hard work" and learning the way the network
    > actually works. And to do so, you really should get yourself an "open
    > source" platform (e.g. linux or netbsd or ...) and configure it
    > yourself.
    >
    > I have done both. I don't read news or mail on my own computer, but
    > instead login to a machine with professional administrators that take
    > care of the security. That way, I don't get viruses (at least not by
    > that avenue). I also have my own linux box where I can actually study
    > how things work, and change them to work the way I want. If I wanted
    > to masquerade at someone else at some other site, having my own box
    > and understanding it, would allow me to do it. However, I can't
    > imagine why I would want to be someone else (or even be anonymous).
    > The only people who I don't want contacting me, don't contact me by
    > knowing who I am, they are telemarketeers and spammers, who are simply
    > sending bulk junk to everyone. Those who know who I am rarely send
    > me useless stuff.
    >
    > That being said, if you really do post on alt.personals (seeking some
    > sort of relationship I would presume), then you would be much better
    > paying more money (or doing more work) and getting some real
    > anonimity. You are not going to get enough anonymity from changing
    > your IP to make it worthwhile. That's like taking a shower in a
    > public square fountain and then deciding that the next public square
    > over is "more private". Yeah, right....
    >
    > By the way, changing your MAC address at a public hotspot isn't going
    > to add that much to your privacy--especially if you go to the same
    > hotspot all the time. Most hotspots don't preserve MAC address
    > information over extended periods of time--it isn't useful information
    > to keep. No one cares that it is you posting something, unless you are
    > "important" in your own right (or what you are posting is important in
    > its own right). And, in either of those cases, the interested people
    > will come after YOU, not after some MAC or IP address.
    >
    > If you haven't noticed, most of the technical content in this thread,
    > has not been about giving you ways to achieve what you want, but
    > instead trying to explain why what you think you want is not worth
    > having, because it doesn't get you what you really want.
    >
    > So, if you want to change your MAC address and post from a hot-spot
    > thinking you will be more anonymous, go ahead. If you give me reason
    > to track you down, it won't even slow me down. The real information
    > to find you isn't there (even if it is a posting that gets me first
    > interested), and I wouldn't bother looking there.
    >
    > If you are posting on the internet, presumably you want to be read.
    > If you want to be read, then you do things that make you easy to find.
    > Trying to be anonymous and public at the same time is an oxymoron.
    >
    > Hope this helps,
    > -Chris
    >


    Very well said Chris.

    >

    ****************************************************************************
    *
    > Chris Clark Internet :
    > Compiler Resources, Inc. Web Site : http://world.std.com/~compres
    > 23 Bailey Rd voice : (508) 435-5016
    > Berlin, MA 01503 USA fax : (978) 838-0263 (24 hours)
    > --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ----
     
    Dana, Oct 19, 2006
    #10
  11. #2 Aluxe

    #3 Aluxe Guest

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:38:04 -0400, Chris F Clark wrote:

    Hi Chris Clark,
    Wow. Even though you didn't quite answer the specific question, you DID go
    into a thorough detail on how to do the job better in a variety of ways.

    I fully agree with almost all your points; and I partially agree with the
    rest as explained below (for others to benefit from the conversation).

    > If you *really* want to change/remove your NNTP posting host, then get
    > yourself a linux server and a real netnews connection and a
    > cooperative site that will forward your newsfeed into the usenet
    > stream.


    Understood. But, as you noted, that's a LOT more effort than just
    unplugging the router momentarily (which is what I do today to accomplish
    my goal). Actually, if I just found a router with an on/off switch, THAT
    would be work just fine too! I didn't know that was a desired feature when
    I originally purchased my Linksys router. In the future, a basic on/off
    switch is on my list of router niceties.

    > that's why people have been so "down" on your idea of changing your IP.
    > The system isn't setup to do that.
    > It doesn't provide any real value.


    I only partially agree with you here. For you, and for most of the people
    who posted, changing the IP assigned to you provides no value. But, for me,
    where my ISP reports to the whole world my assigned IP address in every
    post, it does provide additive value for the amount of work involved
    (currently that work is merely unplugging the router momentarily after a
    night's rest).

    > I don't know what you have posted on alt.personals and am not
    > interested enough to find out.


    I don't actually post on alt.personals, by the way. That was just an
    example to explain the "why" I was asking how to force the router to dial
    into my PPPoE connection on demand. I didn't want to get into a discussion
    of why ... it's all the nice people who responded who insisted we discuss
    the why before we discuss the how. So, I told them why by using analogies
    (some automatically assumed I was a criminal, paranoid, or worse!) :) LOL.

    I think we've discussed the "why" to death ... if someone doesn't
    understand the why by now (yes, I know you understood), then they most
    likely won't ever get to the how (which is a much simpler question, albeit
    non emotional).


    > In particular, I wouldn't look by IP address, because most IP
    > addresses are not specific to one person, most of them are connected
    > to large sites with lots of users. The fact that yours happens to be
    > your router (are you sure of that?


    Yup. We proved it time and time again. Notice each day my nntp posting host
    changes? It is 100% correlated with the IP address my ISP assigns me. It
    doesn't matter which software I used (I tested Forte Free Agent, 40Tude
    dialog, and Outlook Express). If anyone KNOWs the trick to tell the ISP to
    not use my IP address as my NNTP posting host ... THAT would be a
    conversation worthy of having!

    > If you want more privacy ... you can get it by paying
    > for it or by doing "hard work"


    Or, I can just tell my router to dial into PPPoE every morning :)

    > That being said, if you really do post on alt.personals (seeking some
    > sort of relationship I would presume), thn you would be much better
    > paying more money (or doing more ework) and getting some real
    > anonimity.


    Again. These were just examples. Do folks really think someone who wishes
    to hide their IP address is going to actually provide "real" targeting
    information to answer a wholly unrelated, yet still very personal, set of
    errant questions of why I want my router to dial into a PPPoE account on
    demand?

    The made-up examples were illustrative of the only point I had which was
    that all my posts today under any name can be collected by the IP address
    for me (but not for most of you).

    > You are not going to get enough anonymity from changing
    > your IP to make it worthwhile.


    At the moment, the "cost" of changing my IP address is momentarily
    rebooting the router (sometimes it takes a few cycles). You are precisely
    agreeing with me in that I am trying to get that "effort" down to zero by
    intelligent setup of the router (to make it dial into the PPPoE account on
    demand).

    I think I've set the router to do that so we are testing it now (it failed
    the first test, but, my test may have been flawed as I had shut down the
    modem).

    > That's like taking a shower in a
    > public square fountain and then deciding that the next public square
    > over is "more private". Yeah, right....


    It's more like the ISP is putting my name tag (i.e., my assigned DHCP IP
    address) over my shower in a very public place where everyone else is
    taking a shower ... but their (and your) ISP doesn't put their/your name
    tag over their/your shower so folks are not concerned with my problem with
    it because they don't have the same problem.

    > By the way, changing your MAC address at a public hotspot isn't going
    > to add that much to your privacy--especially if you go to the same
    > hotspot all the time.


    I think we've established that this is additive to security. Of course, we
    all know that a security camera can record that you were there and that
    someone can walk by and watch what you're doing (think tempest) ... but
    what we were talking about specifically was the PACKET traffic.

    I think we've reliably established the only thing that the PACKET traffic
    reveals about you (other than the content which is likely more revealing
    overall in a global sense) is that you CHANGED your MAC address.


    > No one cares that it is you posting something, unless you are
    > "important" in your own right (or what you are posting is important in
    > its own right).


    Thousands of identity theft victims believed as you do. I understand your
    point, and you understand mine, so we can just agree to disagree that
    setting up a router to automatically dial into a PPPoE account on demand is
    pointless (I believe it isn't; you believe it is).


    > If you haven't noticed, most of the technical content in this thread,
    > has not been about giving you ways to achieve what you want, but
    > instead trying to explain why what you think you want is not worth
    > having, because it doesn't get you what you really want.


    Sigh. You do understand the situation well. So do I. It all boils down to
    the shower-curtain analogy. THEY don't have THEIR assigned IP address on
    their shower stall in the public shower; I do.

    That makes my situation different than most of theirs. I know you
    understand that. But they (seemingly) fail to understand that; yet, in
    their willingness to help (which I do appreciate) they try to put me in
    their shower slippers instead of the other way around.

    > So, if you want to change your MAC address and post from a hot-spot
    > thinking you will be more anonymous, go ahead.


    It will. For the five seconds it takes to change the MAC address, the
    security is additive and provides good ROI.

    > If you give me reason to track you down, it won't even slow me down.


    Please realize I never said it would. All you'd need to do is tempest
    monitoring or security cameras or food receipts or interviewing the hotel
    employees, etc. I KNOW that. That was NEVER the issue. Why people can't get
    that in their minds (yes, I know you understand), is beyond me. All I was
    asking on the MAC address question was about the tattletale bit.

    Some people, sounding very knowledgeable, say there is "no such thing";
    while others, sounding just as knowledgeable sare "there is such a thing".
    From what I read (and posted the references), there is such a thing but I
    asked the jury to help me here as we already determined changing the MAC
    address prior to initating a public hotspot connection IS additive.

    > If you are posting on the internet, presumably you want to be read.
    > If you want to be read, then you do things that make you easy to find.
    > Trying to be anonymous and public at the same time is an oxymoron.


    I disagree with this whole set of statements (including the first line).

    You don't just want to be read ... you want the answers (what good is being
    read without getting the answer????).

    If you want the answer to the question, then you ask good questions and you
    respond promptly, accurately, and courteously to all questions that try to
    flesh out the problem ... and then you diligently try the viable suggested
    solutions.

    Can anyone say I am not?

    In summary ... I asked many times how to force the router to dial into the
    PPPoE account on demand ... and I am in the middle of tests from the one or
    two answers which provided how to do that ... I hope these tests work ...
    I'll know tomorrow morning after the router and modem have been down for a
    few hours.

    My IP adddress is current: NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.110.16.49

    Tomorrow, if it's different ... then we will have succeeded and I will
    thank you all for your kind help!
     
    #3 Aluxe, Oct 19, 2006
    #11
  12. #2 Aluxe

    #2 Aluxe Guest

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:01:48 -0800, Dana wrote:
    >> If you are posting on the internet, presumably you want to be read.

    > Very well said Chris.


    Hi Dana,

    Even though Chris didn't offer a viable solution that was easier or less
    expensive than simply rebooting the router each morning ...

    He DID supply a thoughtful and comprehensive explanation of why people are
    so completely against me trying to force my router to dial into the PPPoE
    connection upon demand in order to not have the same IP address broadcast
    to everyone on every posting I provide.

    We both could tell, just from his speech, that he was an educated
    intelligent person who had an opinion on the matter which he courteously
    supplied ... and which I appreciate ... as I need his (and your) help in
    order to resolve my technical dilemma.

    Thank you all for your very kind help ... I hope (after all this), we
    finally do figure out how to get the router to dial into the DHCP PPPoE
    account on demand!
     
    #2 Aluxe, Oct 19, 2006
    #12
  13. Well, it seems you have solved your problem. Whether you can automate
    that solution is another question. I have a "similar" problem, that I
    use a slightly different solution to, and which may guide you to a
    better solution. Sometimes my modem gets stuck and needs to be
    rebooted (and when that happens, you need to power it and the router
    off). Therefore, I put the modem on a surge protect (power strip)
    with a convenient button right below my screen. If things get stuck,
    I trun it off, wait for 30 seconds and turn it back on. Viola.

    Now, you can also get things (power controllers) like that, where your
    computer can send commands to turn the thing off-and-on (often called
    X10 devices). I don't know much about them, but I bet you could get
    one of those to power your router and/or modem and thus have your
    computer turn the router off and on once per night and then check the
    ip address and do it again, until it got a new one. Now, your
    shower-stall has a changing IP address.

    I still don't think anyone is ever going to look at your IP address,
    but I'm pretty much on the opposite end of paranoid, despite having
    closely know people whose identities were stolen--and that's because
    I'm pretty certain that their identities were not stolen by using the
    same name over and over again, but by other forms of carelessness.

    I lock my car when I go to work or the mall, but not when it is at
    home in my garage, even though there is "only" an electric garage door
    opener protecting it there. My wife locks her car even at home. That
    helps her sleep better.

    Hope this helps,
    -Chris

    *****************************************************************************
    Chris Clark Internet :
    Compiler Resources, Inc. Web Site : http://world.std.com/~compres
    23 Bailey Rd voice : (508) 435-5016
    Berlin, MA 01503 USA fax : (978) 838-0263 (24 hours)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Chris F Clark, Oct 19, 2006
    #13
  14. #2 Aluxe

    Dana Guest

    "#2 Aluxe" <> wrote in message
    news:jj21gs0iv5a6.l0a59e77iqs7$...
    > On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:01:48 -0800, Dana wrote:
    > >> If you are posting on the internet, presumably you want to be read.

    > > Very well said Chris.

    >
    > Hi Dana,
    >
    > Even though Chris didn't offer a viable solution that was easier or less
    > expensive than simply rebooting the router each morning ...
    >
    > He DID supply a thoughtful and comprehensive explanation of why people are
    > so completely against me trying to force my router to dial into the PPPoE
    > connection upon demand in order to not have the same IP address broadcast
    > to everyone on every posting I provide.
    >
    > We both could tell, just from his speech, that he was an educated
    > intelligent person who had an opinion on the matter which he courteously
    > supplied ... and which I appreciate ... as I need his (and your) help in
    > order to resolve my technical dilemma.
    >
    > Thank you all for your very kind help ... I hope (after all this), we
    > finally do figure out how to get the router to dial into the DHCP PPPoE
    > account on demand!


    It is not that people do not want to help, it is the issue that the solution
    you are looking for, will really not help you in your goal.
    Changing your IP or MAC address on your computer hooked to the DSL
    connection you change will not add to your privacy.
    As Chris said, using Unix/Linux (and even windows, just takes a lot more
    work), and bypassing an ISP (in other words you directly connect to the
    internet), make it a lot easier to hide your identity from those looking.
    You would still not be invisible, but it would take more work to find out
    who you are.

    For you to achieve your goal of posting in privacy on the internet, you will
    have to pay a service provider that offers that service.
    What they do is they do not forward your headers (your nntp posting host
    line, etc) and instead use theirs, that basically hides where you post from.
    Or you can get a linux OS and a news reader that allows you to modify your
    headers. But then to really hide yourself you would have to read up on the
    NNTP RFC
    http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc977.txt
    In another post you mentioned ROI, well changing your IP and MAC in this
    situation does not give you a decent ROI, instead it is more like you bought
    some tap water from a snake oil salesmen.
    You keep going back to you want your router to reconnect via your PPOE to
    get a new IP address. Well that IP address will never be yours to begin
    with. If someone searches that IP address, they will find it belongs to your
    ISP. They might get close to your geographical area, but that is about it.
    If people want to search through the news groups to find your posts, there
    are more ways to do that than just using the IP address or NNTP posting
    host.
    So if your goal is to be able to post anonymously on the newsgroups, pay the
    20 to 30 dollars some providers charge for that service, or use an OS and
    news client that will allow you to manipulate your headers.
    Another way to remain semi anon, is to post via google groups, I hate saying
    that as I find the interface for google groups to be very lacking in
    functionality.
     
    Dana, Oct 19, 2006
    #14
  15. #2 Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:34:12 -0800, Dana wrote:
    > Another way to remain semi anon, is to post via google groups, I hate saying
    > that as I find the interface for google groups to be very lacking in
    > functionality.


    Been there. Done that. In my case, google also uses my assigned IP address
    as the NNTP posting host. ...
     
    Aluxe, Oct 19, 2006
    #15
  16. #2 Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:34:12 -0800, Dana wrote:
    > Changing your IP or MAC address on your computer hooked to the DSL
    > connection you change will not add to your privacy.


    Hi Dana,

    I do very much appreciate your help.
    Can we just agree to disagree and move on to the technical question?

    Why?
    Because most people who opined are NOT in the same situation as I am.
    They obviously did not put themselves in my shower slippers.
    Some even seemed shocked that my assigned IP address was broadcast on every
    one of my usenet nntp posts because theirs wasn't.

    Even so, we did discuss some good issues though.

    I, for one, DID LEARN from this discussion that my changing of my computer
    MAC was pointless (in most cases, but, not in the public hotspot case) and
    for that I THANK YOU all heartily for edifying me. I do realize the MAC
    changes will NOT be at all additive to privacy and aren't even worth the
    price of the free software that I used to change the MAC address.

    And, I think some of you learned of the tattletale bit on the MAC address
    (although we're waiting for confirmation of same).

    I also learned of router settings to keep the connection alive upon demand;
    and, I learned that the PC IP address (and MAC) were the wrong focus.

    For all this I thank you all!

    I think we can just agree to disagree (actually, some of you actually
    understand my dilemma and do agree with me so that is gratifying even
    though I am trying to keep emotions out of this ... and paranoia :)

    Thank you all ... I'll try to concentrate on the one remaining question
    which is how to get the router to re-establish the PPPoE connection as
    automatically as possible when the modem is powered back on in the morning.
     
    Aluxe, Oct 19, 2006
    #16
  17. #2 Aluxe

    Guest

    In alt.internet.wireless Chris F Clark <> wrote:
    > If you *really* want to change/remove your NNTP posting host, then get
    > yourself a linux server and a real netnews connection and a


    It would be simpler to use a public news server that puts its IP address in
    that line, wouldn't it? The tracking would still be there, but into a
    public mass.

    > and with almost no effort. that's why people have been so "down" on
    > your idea of changing your IP. The system isn't setup to do that. It
    > doesn't provide any real value.


    I think there were a lot of reasons why different people were down on the
    idea. Mostly because it provides no protection at the time. It is more
    like a doubleclick cookie. Over time, tracking the IP address could
    provide a trail of crumbs. If that pile of crumbs belongs to
    "" it isn't so helpful, but if some of the postings from
    123.45.67.89 contain personally recognizable information, and none contain
    dissuading information, an identity for all of them can be inferred.

    > In particular, I wouldn't look by IP address, because most IP
    > addresses are not specific to one person, most of them are connected
    > to large sites with lots of users. The fact that yours happens to be
    > your router (are you sure of that? and certain that there is not one
    > NNTP host for your entire ISP--that's how my ISP works), is just an
    > artifact that is at most mildly interesting.


    In the case of the OP, it does seem to be a pacbell.net dsl IP. That's a
    cookie that I might rather avoid, but then I have my .sig with my name...
    Aside from Usenet postings, that IP address would be a useful part of
    various web sites' collection activities.

    --
    ---
    Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
     
    , Oct 19, 2006
    #17
  18. #2 Aluxe

    Warren Oates Guest

    In article <zhcvc25qpr8q$.k4w2nknk9fjy$>,
    Aluxe <> wrote:

    > Thank you all ... I'll try to concentrate on the one remaining question
    > which is how to get the router to re-establish the PPPoE connection as
    > automatically as possible when the modem is powered back on in the morning.


    That's just hardware. The router should see the PPoE connection as soon
    as your link is up. Once the little lights on the modem have stopped
    flashing, you should be connected. If you turn the router off at night
    too, you should probably power it up first, although, now that I think
    about it, it really shouldn't matter.
    --
    W. Oates
    Teal'c: He is concealing something.
    O'Neil: Like what?
    Teal'c: I am unsure, he is concealing it.
     
    Warren Oates, Oct 19, 2006
    #18
  19. #2 Aluxe

    Rasta Robert Guest

    On 2006-10-19, Aluxe <> wrote:
    > On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:34:12 -0800, Dana wrote:
    >> Another way to remain semi anon, is to post via google groups, I hate saying
    >> that as I find the interface for google groups to be very lacking in
    >> functionality.

    >
    > Been there. Done that. In my case, google also uses my assigned IP address
    > as the NNTP posting host. ...


    You just need to find a newsserver that doesn't attach the NTTP-posting-host
    header. I don't know if there are any open/free newsservers that do that or
    that you will need to get an account at some pay server.
    You can't make that header dissapear on your side with any software solution.
    Posting through some anonymising proxy to an open newsserver would be another
    option. The disconnecting/reconnecting in the hope of getting a new IP#
    is rather unelegant and will still give you an IP# out of a limited IP-block.

    --
    <http://rr.www.cistron.nl/> -!- <http://www.rr.dds.nl/>
    <http://www.dread.demon.nl/>
     
    Rasta Robert, Oct 22, 2006
    #19
  20. #2 Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On 22 Oct 2006 15:04:14 GMT, Rasta Robert wrote:
    > You just need to find a newsserver that doesn't attach the NTTP-posting-host
    > header. I don't know if there are any open/free newsservers that do that or
    > that you will need to get an account at some pay server.
    > You can't make that header dissapear on your side with any software solution.
    > Posting through some anonymising proxy to an open newsserver would be another
    > option. The disconnecting/reconnecting in the hope of getting a new IP#
    > is rather unelegant and will still give you an IP# out of a limited IP-block.


    Hi Rasta Robert,
    Thank you for your kind advice. Until midway through this thread, I was
    unaware that I was basically in a small subset of nntp posters whose
    assigned IP address is what is shown in usenet news headers (as opposed to
    a tremendously more obscure nntp news server).

    Therefore, it became even more imperative for me to change my IP address
    daily (notwithstanding the argument that there is only a limited set of IP
    addresses which the ISP randomly assigns to me).

    The options you suggest are viable ... but alas ... all cost more or are
    more work than just powering down the modem at night and then powering up
    the modem in the morning and then cycling the router a few seconds later.

    If I could only figure out how to get the router to connect back to the ISP
    in the morning (which is always after the original IP address has already
    been given away) - that would be cost effective and simple.

    I think (but I do not know for sure) that this inability for the router to
    realize that there is no IP address coming out of the modem, is a bug in
    the router. What would we do to prove that is a bug and not just a design
    feature? Certainly it's not documented to act that way in the user manual
    which implies the router knows when there is no connection to the ISP and
    the router will connect upon the next demand to do so.

    Seems to me this is a bug in the router.
    Can anyone reliably confirm or deny?
     
    Aluxe, Oct 22, 2006
    #20
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