Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by Aluxe, Oct 18, 2006.

  1. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On 18 Oct 2006 07:14:51 -0700, wrote:
    > What you really want to accomplish is scripting a release/renew
    > between your modem and ISP, which is not easily accomplished.


    Hi kingthorin,
    I much appreciate your willingness to help and your reasonable ideas.
    What always works is to unplug BOTH the modem & router overnight.

    Note an "ipconfig /all" does NOT tell us the new IP address of the ROUTER;
    I have to obtain the new router IP address from my NNTP server posting line
    in my subsequent USENET posts.

    Also note that I can't seem to "force" the PPPOE dialup by the router from
    the computer so often I need to unplug and replug in the linksys router to
    force the router to dial into the dsl isp.

    Is there any way you know of to force the linksys router to dial into the
    PPPOE account on demand?
    Aluxe, Oct 18, 2006
    #1
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  2. Aluxe

    Guest

    Aluxe wrote:
    > On 18 Oct 2006 07:14:51 -0700, wrote:
    > > What you really want to accomplish is scripting a release/renew
    > > between your modem and ISP, which is not easily accomplished.

    >
    > Hi kingthorin,
    > I much appreciate your willingness to help and your reasonable ideas.
    > What always works is to unplug BOTH the modem & router overnight.
    >
    > Note an "ipconfig /all" does NOT tell us the new IP address of the ROUTER;
    > I have to obtain the new router IP address from my NNTP server posting line
    > in my subsequent USENET posts.
    >
    > Also note that I can't seem to "force" the PPPOE dialup by the router from
    > the computer so often I need to unplug and replug in the linksys router to
    > force the router to dial into the dsl isp.
    >
    > Is there any way you know of to force the linksys router to dial into the
    > PPPOE account on demand?


    You'd have to look at the mechanism in the web admin interface of your
    linksys device but you can probably ues a windows version of wget
    (http://pages.interlog.com/~tcharron/wgetwin.html) called by a batch
    file scheduled through windows task scheduler to do that.

    Also I did a quick search and it sounds like some linksys devices have
    a "connect on demand" option. (Disable keep-alive, enable "connect on
    demand" and set a timeout). So that when your router receives an
    outbound request it initiates the PPPoE connection (login) and then
    disconnects after the timeout (inactivity) period is passed (ie: 15
    mins after it receives the last outbound request). It'll probably
    depend exactly which device you have but it sounds like it may be worth
    checking out.
    This is based on information here: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/6891
    (go down to the "Connection Timers" section).
    , Oct 18, 2006
    #2
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  3. Aluxe

    Guest

  4. Aluxe

    #2 Aluxe Guest

    On 18 Oct 2006 12:17:24 -0700, wrote:
    >> Is there any way you know of to force the linksys router to dial into the
    >> PPPOE account on demand?

    > Some linksys devices have a "connect on demand" option.
    > (Disable keep-alive, enable "connect on demand" and set a timeout).
    > So that when your router receives an outbound request it initiates
    > the PPPoE connection (login) and then disconnects after the timeout
    > (inactivity) period is passed (ie: 15 mins after it receives the
    > last outbound request).


    Hi kingthorin,

    Oh my. Yes. Finally. You are someone who helps answer the question.

    Instead of a cheap off-topic editorial on paranoia, you bared your brains
    and bothered to come up with a possible answer to what amounts to a very
    simple on-topic technical question. Thank you so very much. It's people
    like you that make the Internet so helpful to everyone!

    I found all the settings you spoke of in my router.
    - I aimed the browser at the router's IP address
    - I logged in as the administrator of the router
    - I went to "Setup" "Basic Setup" and switched the default from
    - "Keep Alive: Redial Period = 30 sec"
    - to the new setting of:
    - "Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time = 1 min"

    Hopefully, a positive result of this technical test of your hypothesis will
    answer the question of how to force the router to dial into the PPPoE
    account when I power the modem back on after an evening's shutdown.

    I'm not quite sure if I fully understand this setting though.
    Is this a correct explaination of the "Connect on Demand" setting?

    - Assume the DSL modem is shut down for, say, overnight.
    - Assume the router was left powered on; as was the computer.
    - The goal is to power the modem and attempt a web connection on the
    computer and the hope is that this will cause the router to re-initiate the
    PPPoE connection to the ISP.

    I'm confused about the "max idle time" though. Does that mean that it could
    be as long as one minute (given a max idle time setting of "1 min") before
    the router initiates the PPPoE connection?
    #2 Aluxe, Oct 19, 2006
    #4
  5. Aluxe

    Guest

    > Hi kingthorin,
    >
    > Oh my. Yes. Finally. You are someone who helps answer the question.
    >
    > Instead of a cheap off-topic editorial on paranoia, you bared your brains
    > and bothered to come up with a possible answer to what amounts to a very
    > simple on-topic technical question. Thank you so very much. It's people
    > like you that make the Internet so helpful to everyone!


    No worries.

    > I found all the settings you spoke of in my router.
    > - I aimed the browser at the router's IP address
    > - I logged in as the administrator of the router
    > - I went to "Setup" "Basic Setup" and switched the default from
    > - "Keep Alive: Redial Period = 30 sec"
    > - to the new setting of:
    > - "Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time = 1 min"


    You may want to increase the Max Idle Time a bit. It's pretty simple to
    be idle for one minute while you read a web page, news article, if you
    answer the phone etc. You don't want to be hammering your ISPs
    authentication server everytime you're idle for 1 min.

    > Hopefully, a positive result of this technical test of your hypothesis will
    > answer the question of how to force the router to dial into the PPPoE
    > account when I power the modem back on after an evening's shutdown.
    >
    > I'm not quite sure if I fully understand this setting though.
    > Is this a correct explaination of the "Connect on Demand" setting?
    >
    > - Assume the DSL modem is shut down for, say, overnight.
    > - Assume the router was left powered on; as was the computer.
    > - The goal is to power the modem and attempt a web connection on the
    > computer and the hope is that this will cause the router to re-initiate the
    > PPPoE connection to the ISP.


    No it has nothing to do with powering down the modem, you can leave the
    modem up. Your router will only be assigned a IP address by your ISP
    when it has a valid PPPoE connection. The "Connect On Demand" and "Max
    Idle Time" settings tell the router to well simply connect when there
    is demand (ie: PPPoE connect/authenticate....which results in you
    getting an IP) and then drop the connection (ie: PPPoE disconnect)
    after your connection has been idle for x number of minutes. Everything
    can remain powered on, if you have no "demand" overnight then you
    should exceed the time you've observed and when you establish "connect
    on demand" in the morning should attain a different IP. Make sense?

    > I'm confused about the "max idle time" though. Does that mean that it could
    > be as long as one minute (given a max idle time setting of "1 min") before
    > the router initiates the PPPoE connection?

    No, Max Idle Time is going to be the time the router takes before
    dropping the connection. Like this:
    1) Set down at your computer, open IE and try to hit
    http://www.google.com, the router sees this as a request for something
    outside of your local network and therefore initiates your PPPoE
    connection to your ISP and gets you a public IP address.
    2) You can now surf, email, etc at your leasure.
    3) Once you stop surfing etc (no further request to things outside your
    local network) the router will wait for a full minute of inactivity and
    then disconnect (drop your PPPoE connection).

    Note: Windows Update, MSN Messenger (any instand messenging program)
    etc will likely cause a steady stream of traffic and never let you
    become "Idle", you'll need to make sure they are disabled when you're
    done online or configured so that they aren't doing their own 'keep
    alive' functions, etc....
    , Oct 19, 2006
    #5
  6. Aluxe

    #2 Aluxe Guest

    On 19 Oct 2006 05:10:25 -0700, wrote:
    >> I found all the settings you spoke of in my router.
    >> - I aimed the browser at the router's IP address
    >> - I logged in as the administrator of the router
    >> - I went to "Setup" "Basic Setup" and switched the default from
    >> - "Keep Alive: Redial Period = 30 sec"
    >> - to the new setting of:
    >> - "Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time = 1 min"

    >
    > You may want to increase the Max Idle Time a bit. It's pretty simple to
    > be idle for one minute while you read a web page, news article, if you
    > answer the phone etc. You don't want to be hammering your ISPs
    > authentication server everytime you're idle for 1 min.


    Hi kingthorin,

    I love the fact that you are helping to answer the original technical
    question (instead of getting into an endless & useless theoretical debate
    about paranoia). Thank you for sticking to the topic and for knowing enough
    to do so.

    My test failed. Obviously I have a new IP address but that was never the
    problem. The problem was getting the new IP address (aka NNTP posting host)
    without having to power down the router (and the modem, if possible). I had
    to power the router off and then back on to get it to initiate the PPPoE
    DHCP DSL connection to the ISP.

    However, you have told me that I performed the test wrong as I had powered
    down the modem (but not the router) in my successful attempt to get the
    modem to release its assigned IP address. Releasing the IP address isn't
    the problem ... it's getting a new IP address without having to power down
    the Linksys router that is the problem.

    After reading your post just now, I will try a NEW test. I just took your
    suggestion and increased the maximum idle time to 5 minutes (the default).

    DOES THIS look like a definitive MAX-IDLE-TIME test procedure?

    a. Connect to the Internet, e.g., www.google.com (to ascertain connection)
    b. Determine my modem's current IP address (by querying the router)
    c. Wait five minute inactive (assume no keep-alive programs are running)
    d. The 5-inactive minutes should disconnect me from the PPPoE connection
    e. Test the PPPoE connection by again querying the router on port 80
    f. At this point, there should be no assigned IP address showing up
    g. WAIT FOR AS LONG AS YOU LIKE (but more than the Max Idle Time)
    h. Repeat step a above to connect to the Internet by going to google
    i. This should "wake up" the router & tell it to dial back into PPPoE
    j. Within a few secs, the PPPoE connection should be re-established
    k. The proof will be that the google web page reappears in the browser

    Is this a valid test procedure to prove whether the PPPoE connection is
    being dropped and then reconnected on demand after waiting for more than
    the max idle time?
    #2 Aluxe, Oct 19, 2006
    #6
  7. Aluxe

    Guest

    #2 Aluxe wrote:
    > On 19 Oct 2006 05:10:25 -0700, wrote:
    > >> I found all the settings you spoke of in my router.
    > >> - I aimed the browser at the router's IP address
    > >> - I logged in as the administrator of the router
    > >> - I went to "Setup" "Basic Setup" and switched the default from
    > >> - "Keep Alive: Redial Period = 30 sec"
    > >> - to the new setting of:
    > >> - "Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time = 1 min"

    > >
    > > You may want to increase the Max Idle Time a bit. It's pretty simple to
    > > be idle for one minute while you read a web page, news article, if you
    > > answer the phone etc. You don't want to be hammering your ISPs
    > > authentication server everytime you're idle for 1 min.

    >
    > Hi kingthorin,
    >
    > I love the fact that you are helping to answer the original technical
    > question (instead of getting into an endless & useless theoretical debate
    > about paranoia). Thank you for sticking to the topic and for knowing enough
    > to do so.
    >
    > My test failed. Obviously I have a new IP address but that was never the
    > problem. The problem was getting the new IP address (aka NNTP posting host)
    > without having to power down the router (and the modem, if possible). I had
    > to power the router off and then back on to get it to initiate the PPPoE
    > DHCP DSL connection to the ISP.
    >
    > However, you have told me that I performed the test wrong as I had powered
    > down the modem (but not the router) in my successful attempt to get the
    > modem to release its assigned IP address. Releasing the IP address isn't
    > the problem ... it's getting a new IP address without having to power down
    > the Linksys router that is the problem.
    >
    > After reading your post just now, I will try a NEW test. I just took your
    > suggestion and increased the maximum idle time to 5 minutes (the default).
    >
    > DOES THIS look like a definitive MAX-IDLE-TIME test procedure?
    >
    > a. Connect to the Internet, e.g., www.google.com (to ascertain connection)
    > b. Determine my modem's current IP address (by querying the router)


    It's actually your router that gets the IP address from your ISP not
    the modem. Think of it like you didn't have multiple systems (and
    therefore no router) your lone computer would initiate the PPPoE
    connection and get the IP address.

    > c. Wait five minute inactive (assume no keep-alive programs are running)
    > d. The 5-inactive minutes should disconnect me from the PPPoE connection
    > e. Test the PPPoE connection by again querying the router on port 80


    Yes if you check the router after 5.5 minutes (er whatever) then it
    should have dropped your connection and it should no longer have a
    public IP.

    > f. At this point, there should be no assigned IP address showing up
    > g. WAIT FOR AS LONG AS YOU LIKE (but more than the Max Idle Time)


    Once you're sure you've been disconnected there's no reason to wait
    longer. (Though this would usually be your overnight period which would
    exceed the hour or two you previously noted it takes for you to
    reconnect and attain a different IP then your previous connections.
    Make sense?)

    > h. Repeat step a above to connect to the Internet by going to google
    > i. This should "wake up" the router & tell it to dial back into PPPoE
    > j. Within a few secs, the PPPoE connection should be re-established
    > k. The proof will be that the google web page reappears in the browser


    or that you check the router again and the PPPoE connection is
    established and you have a public IP again.

    > Is this a valid test procedure to prove whether the PPPoE connection is
    > being dropped and then reconnected on demand after waiting for more than
    > the max idle time?


    Ya I think that'll work for you. Just remember that "Max Idle Time" is
    just for dropping the connection, you'll still have to wait the hour or
    two (between drop and establish) you previously observed to keep
    yourself from getting the same address twice in a row.
    , Oct 19, 2006
    #7
  8. Aluxe

    Guest

    So were you successful?
    , Oct 20, 2006
    #8
  9. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On 20 Oct 2006 06:46:04 -0700, wrote:

    > So were you successful?


    Hi kingthorin,
    Thank you very much for your help and concern.
    No. I have not been successful yet.

    It's actually embarrassing that, after all the helpful posts (there must be
    more than a hundred of them) I still don't have a software method (other
    than rebooting the router) which simply tells the router to dial into the
    PPPoE account after an assigned address is "given up" by the ISP.

    I wonder ... what is the "state" of the connection when the router is still
    on but the ISP has "given up" on the IP address it previously assigned to
    me? If I could only wake the connection out of that dormant state without
    rebooting the router ...

    The confusing part is that the option we set "should" have worked!
    - Aim the browser at the linksys router's IP address
    - Log in as the administrator of the router
    - Go to "Setup" "Basic Setup" "Keep Alive:"
    - Change from: "Redial Period = 30 sec"
    - Change to: "Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time = 5 min"

    I do not yet know why this isn't working and I am trying different things
    each morning but (so far) I always end up rebooting the router which
    immediately reconnects me to my PPPoE account.

    What I "think" is happening (from front to back) is:
    - Powering up the router causes it to dial into the PPPoE account
    - The router "dials" in with a login and password
    - The login and password is accepted by the ISP
    - The ISP immediately assigns an IP address to the router or modem
    (note in this thread some say the IP address is assigned to the router,
    others say it is assigned to the modem; suffice to say it is assigned to
    me)

    - If I constantly use the computer, this IP assignment is maintained
    - If I don't use the computer during the day, this IP assignment is
    maintained
    - However, if I don't use the computer for a long time (hours), then
    something wierd happens now (that didn't happen before I changed the
    settings).

    - Apparently the ISP un-assignes the IP address
    - Yet the router is apparently blissfully unaware of the change
    - Unfortunatly, the router does NOT dial back in to get a new IP assignment

    After a hundred replies to this post, I still don't know ...
    What can I do (sans rebooting the router) to get the router to just ask for
    a new IP address?
    Aluxe, Oct 21, 2006
    #9
  10. Aluxe

    Dana Guest

    "Aluxe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 20 Oct 2006 06:46:04 -0700, wrote:
    >
    > > So were you successful?

    >
    > After a hundred replies to this post, I still don't know ...
    > What can I do (sans rebooting the router) to get the router to just ask

    for
    > a new IP address?


    What is make and model of the router??
    Dana, Oct 21, 2006
    #10
  11. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 09:17:53 -0800, Dana wrote:
    >>> So were you successful?

    >> After a hundred replies to this post, I still don't know how
    >> to get the router to dial into the ISP to obtain a new IP
    >> address (without rebooting) once the ISP has relinquished
    >> the old address due to hours of inactivity.


    > What is make and model of the router??


    Hi Dana,
    The make is Linksys and the model is WRT54G.

    I've long ago set on the "Setup" "Basic Setup" tab:
    - Internet Connection Type = PPPoE
    - The "Username" and "Password" is set here
    Also, as per this NG, "keep alive" was disabled in favor of
    - "Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time 5 min"
    - MTU (whatever that is) is set to "Auto" [vs Manual]

    On the "Setup" "Advanced Routing" tab:
    - Operating Mode = Gateway [vs Router]
    - Static Routing Select Set = 1() [vs 2(), 3(), 4(), etc.]
    - Interface = LAN & Wireless [vs WAN(Internet)]

    To simplify the test, I've been running wired for the past few days
    so I don't think it matters what's on the "Wireless" tab.

    On the "Security" tab, I've set all the options:
    - Block Anonymous Internet Requests = yes
    - Filter Multicast = yes
    - Filter Internet NAT Redirection = yes
    - Filter IDENT(Port 113) = yes

    Allo values are at default for the "Access Restrictions", "Applications &
    Gaming", "Administration", and "Status" tabs.

    Is there a setting or command that can be run after the ISP has given up on
    the IP address which tells the router (without rebooting the router) to
    just connect again to the ISP to login and then ask for a new IP address?
    Aluxe, Oct 21, 2006
    #11
  12. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 19:20:21 GMT, Aluxe wrote:

    > On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 09:17:53 -0800, Dana wrote:
    >>>> So were you successful?
    >>> After a hundred replies to this post, I still don't know how
    >>> to get the router to dial into the ISP to obtain a new IP
    >>> address (without rebooting) once the ISP has relinquished
    >>> the old address due to hours of inactivity.

    >
    >> What is make and model of the router??

    >
    > Hi Dana,
    > The make is Linksys and the model is WRT54G.


    I bought this router recently because I read in this newsgroup (which I
    trust) that I really should have a hardware firewall to augment my software
    freeware firewall. I didn't know which router to choose from at the store
    (there were dozens of them) so I picked on near the top in price but not at
    the very top. I hope I didn't make a mistake by not buying the very top of
    the line.

    Unfortunately (I guess I didn't pay enough) because it it didn't even come
    with a manual (it came just with a CDROM and some breezy literature). But,
    it was soon up and running in a few minutes as most of the basic settings
    were intuitive. I have no problems with the router per se. It keeps the
    connection alive forever (day or night) when I had the keep-alive default
    setting.

    The only problem I had was that it required a reboot of the router every
    morning to ask again for an IP address as I power down the ADSL modem every
    night in order to relinquish the IP address and cycle to a new one (for
    reasons I'd rather not restate here). :)

    One setting that seems wierd to me is that I'm configured as a "Gateway"
    (vs as a "Router")... but I don't know the difference ... sigh... I wish I
    had an owners manual ...

    I just located found an owners manual for my router at:
    http://www.starbatteries.com/liwrwiroowma.html
    which I am currently printing so I can read it for ideas.

    Interestingly, the router itself apparently runs Linux according to:
    http://www.renderlab.net/projects/wrt54g/
    So, there may be a way to run a program to tell the router to wake up and
    dial the ISP to get the new IP address after the old IP address expires due
    to lack of activity for a few hours.
    Aluxe, Oct 21, 2006
    #12
  13. Aluxe

    Dana Guest

    "Aluxe" <> wrote in message
    news:1o2m5ojhg74ya.1jy9r9zuzdibh$...
    > On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 09:17:53 -0800, Dana wrote:
    > >>> So were you successful?
    > >> After a hundred replies to this post, I still don't know how
    > >> to get the router to dial into the ISP to obtain a new IP
    > >> address (without rebooting) once the ISP has relinquished
    > >> the old address due to hours of inactivity.

    >
    > > What is make and model of the router??

    >
    > Hi Dana,
    > The make is Linksys and the model is WRT54G.
    >
    > Is there a setting or command that can be run after the ISP has given up

    on
    > the IP address which tells the router (without rebooting the router) to
    > just connect again to the ISP to login and then ask for a new IP address?


    Ok, lets look at this.
    Keeping your computer out of the question and just addressing your router
    and the DSL modem and a protocol called DHCP.
    When you connect to your ISP they will give you a random address for what is
    called a lease period. Now this IP address is probably attached to the MAC
    address of your DSL modem which identifies you to the ISP, or it is attached
    to the ISP of the first device past the DSL modem, which in this case would
    be your Router. Understand that for billing and whatnot the ISP has to
    identify you via some device, typically the DSL/CABLE modem they give to
    you, so you do not want to mess with that device at all.
    But anyway, back to the fact that you have now connected and been assigned
    an IP for a certain lease period. In this case it is your router.
    Now this lease period can be almost any time frame from say 4 hours to
    forever.
    The trick now becomes to find out what this lease period is. (Since I do not
    know the paticulars of your router, the easy way I know to do this, is
    bypass your router, hook your computer up to the modem, get an ip address,
    and then do an ipconfig /all
    This will show how long the lease is going to last.
    What this means is that half way through this time frame your device will
    request an address again, this is built into the DHCP protocol. The ISP
    depending on how fast it is using addresses, will either give the same one,
    or a different one. That is under the control of the ISP and the DHCP
    protocol.

    But say you disconnect before this halfway time, and then reconnect again
    before the halfway time expires, depending on the ISP, you will more than
    likely get the very same address. Now if your ISP has a lot of subscribers,
    once you disconnect, they may grab that address to use for someone else.
    So there are a lot of variables here.
    Under DHCP there is really no way to just ask for a new address, if your ISP
    has plenty of addresses to hand out, you may get the same one for what seems
    like every time, and if it is running low on addresses it may grab your
    address that was assigned once you disconnect, so the lease time is what we
    have to find.
    So find out as I described above how long the IP address is assigned, and
    then we can find out when you actually need to do a reset to ensure you will
    get a different address. Now remember as well that these are a pool of
    addresses, so more than likely you will be assigned the same address some
    time in the future again.
    Dana, Oct 21, 2006
    #13
  14. Aluxe

    Dana Guest

    "Dana" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Aluxe" <> wrote in message
    > news:1o2m5ojhg74ya.1jy9r9zuzdibh$...
    > > On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 09:17:53 -0800, Dana wrote:
    > > >>> So were you successful?
    > > >> After a hundred replies to this post, I still don't know how
    > > >> to get the router to dial into the ISP to obtain a new IP
    > > >> address (without rebooting) once the ISP has relinquished
    > > >> the old address due to hours of inactivity.

    > >
    > > > What is make and model of the router??

    > >
    > > Hi Dana,
    > > The make is Linksys and the model is WRT54G.
    > >
    > > Is there a setting or command that can be run after the ISP has given up

    > on
    > > the IP address which tells the router (without rebooting the router) to
    > > just connect again to the ISP to login and then ask for a new IP

    address?
    >
    > Ok, lets look at this.
    > Keeping your computer out of the question and just addressing your router
    > and the DSL modem and a protocol called DHCP.
    > When you connect to your ISP they will give you a random address for what

    is
    > called a lease period. Now this IP address is probably attached to the MAC
    > address of your DSL modem which identifies you to the ISP, or it is

    attached
    > to the ISP

    Correction ISP should be MAC address
    > of the first device past the DSL modem, which in this case would
    > be your Router. Understand that for billing and whatnot the ISP has to
    > identify you via some device, typically the DSL/CABLE modem they give to
    > you, so you do not want to mess with that device at all.
    > But anyway, back to the fact that you have now connected and been assigned
    > an IP for a certain lease period. In this case it is your router.
    > Now this lease period can be almost any time frame from say 4 hours to
    > forever.
    > The trick now becomes to find out what this lease period is. (Since I do

    not
    > know the paticulars of your router, the easy way I know to do this, is
    > bypass your router, hook your computer up to the modem, get an ip address,
    > and then do an ipconfig /all
    > This will show how long the lease is going to last.
    > What this means is that half way through this time frame your device will
    > request an address again, this is built into the DHCP protocol. The ISP
    > depending on how fast it is using addresses, will either give the same

    one,
    > or a different one. That is under the control of the ISP and the DHCP
    > protocol.
    >
    > But say you disconnect before this halfway time, and then reconnect again
    > before the halfway time expires, depending on the ISP, you will more than
    > likely get the very same address. Now if your ISP has a lot of

    subscribers,
    > once you disconnect, they may grab that address to use for someone else.
    > So there are a lot of variables here.
    > Under DHCP there is really no way to just ask for a new address, if your

    ISP
    > has plenty of addresses to hand out, you may get the same one for what

    seems
    > like every time, and if it is running low on addresses it may grab your
    > address that was assigned once you disconnect, so the lease time is what

    we
    > have to find.
    > So find out as I described above how long the IP address is assigned, and
    > then we can find out when you actually need to do a reset to ensure you

    will
    > get a different address. Now remember as well that these are a pool of
    > addresses, so more than likely you will be assigned the same address some
    > time in the future again.
    >
    >
    Dana, Oct 21, 2006
    #14
  15. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:13:13 -0800, Dana wrote:
    > The trick now becomes to find out what this lease period is. (Since I do not
    > know the paticulars of your router, the easy way I know to do this, is
    > bypass your router, hook your computer up to the modem, get an ip address,
    > and then do an ipconfig /all
    > This will show how long the lease is going to last.


    Unfortunately, when I switch the output of the modem (which was previously
    going to the input of the router) to the input of the computer (bypassing
    the router altogether), and reboot both the modem and the computer ... I
    don't establish a connection.

    Apparently the PPPoE login settings that I entered into the router must now
    be entered into the WinXP computer. Problem is that I don't know how to
    tell the WinXP computer how to log into the PPPoE connection of the ISP ...
    but I'm looking that up as we type.

    I should note that I wonder if the lease expiration (acutally the half life
    of the lease expiration if I understand you correctly) really matters all
    that much because I ALWAYS get a new IP address every morning that I
    remember to shut the router down at night. So, it would appear that my ISP
    is low in IP addresses and they give out my IP address pretty quickly (a
    matter of hours) in all cases.

    Still ... I'll try to obtain the requested information as you took the
    effort to help me ... it's my duty to perform all that you ask.

    Here is the lease information from the computer hooked to the router:
    - Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . : Yes
    - Autoconfiguration Enabled . . : Yes
    - IP Address. . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.2
    - Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
    - Default Gateway . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
    - DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
    - DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . : 68.94.156.1
    68.94.157.1
    - Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . : Saturday, October 21, 2006 6:52:33 PM
    - Lease Expires . . . . . . . . : Sunday, October 22, 2006 6:52:33 PM

    With the router in the loop, the lease is 1 full day. Bear in mind, that
    just a few hours with the ADSL modem turned off (I guess about 4) always
    gets me a new IP address once I turn the modem back on and reboot the
    router.

    I would give you the lease information without the router but I don't yet
    know how to tell Windows XP to dial into the PPPoE account with the
    appropriate username and password. I'll look that up after I send this
    reponse so that you get the latest information soonest.
    Aluxe, Oct 22, 2006
    #15
  16. Aluxe

    Dana Guest

    "Aluxe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:13:13 -0800, Dana wrote:
    > > The trick now becomes to find out what this lease period is. (Since I do

    not
    > > know the paticulars of your router, the easy way I know to do this, is
    > > bypass your router, hook your computer up to the modem, get an ip

    address,
    > > and then do an ipconfig /all
    > > This will show how long the lease is going to last.

    >
    > Unfortunately, when I switch the output of the modem (which was previously
    > going to the input of the router) to the input of the computer (bypassing
    > the router altogether), and reboot both the modem and the computer ... I
    > don't establish a connection.
    >
    > Apparently the PPPoE login settings that I entered into the router must

    now
    > be entered into the WinXP computer. Problem is that I don't know how to
    > tell the WinXP computer how to log into the PPPoE connection of the ISP

    ....
    > but I'm looking that up as we type.
    >
    > I should note that I wonder if the lease expiration (acutally the half

    life
    > of the lease expiration if I understand you correctly) really matters all
    > that much because I ALWAYS get a new IP address every morning that I
    > remember to shut the router down at night. So, it would appear that my ISP
    > is low in IP addresses and they give out my IP address pretty quickly (a
    > matter of hours) in all cases.
    >
    > Still ... I'll try to obtain the requested information as you took the
    > effort to help me ... it's my duty to perform all that you ask.


    If you get this in time, the fact that you have seen that if you are
    disconnected over night you seem to get a new IP, the only info we may gain
    is if you can reset in say 1 hour, that may be to short of a time frame for
    your ISP to realease the IP address.
    And of course this can vary during the day, as during peak busy hours they
    may reuse the IP as soon as they see you disconnect.
    So you may begin to see how difficult this may be for you to try and get a
    new IP say within a half hour or less.
    >
    > Here is the lease information from the computer hooked to the router:
    > - Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . : Yes
    > - Autoconfiguration Enabled . . : Yes
    > - IP Address. . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.2
    > - Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
    > - Default Gateway . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
    > - DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
    > - DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . : 68.94.156.1
    > 68.94.157.1
    > - Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . : Saturday, October 21, 2006 6:52:33 PM
    > - Lease Expires . . . . . . . . : Sunday, October 22, 2006 6:52:33 PM
    >
    > With the router in the loop, the lease is 1 full day. Bear in mind, that
    > just a few hours with the ADSL modem turned off (I guess about 4) always
    > gets me a new IP address once I turn the modem back on and reboot the
    > router.


    And that is because of the demand on the ISP for addresses.
    It looks like right now at a minimum unless you do more testing to see the
    actual time your connection needs to be off before a new IP is issued, you
    need to be off for 4 hours.
    >
    > I would give you the lease information without the router but I don't yet
    > know how to tell Windows XP to dial into the PPPoE account with the
    > appropriate username and password. I'll look that up after I send this
    > reponse so that you get the latest information soonest.


    No need for the windows info, the lease info would be the same, so we have
    the answer.
    So right now we know as a minimum unless further testing is done, it takes
    at least 4 hours for your modem to be disconnected/off, before you are
    issued a new IP.
    So now with that kind of time frame, an easy method for you, would be like
    some other person said, put the modem on a power strip, that you can turn on
    and off.
    Further testing means to find out exactly how long your modem needs to be
    off to allow you to get a new address. Start with a half hour, and work up
    to that 4 hour mark. If it is 4 hours, well heck there really is no sense in
    doing anything to change your address, as nothing you do will change the
    fact it needs at least 4 hours.
    Dana, Oct 22, 2006
    #16
  17. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 19:38:18 -0800, Dana wrote:
    > So now with that kind of time frame, an easy method for you, would be like
    > some other person said, put the modem on a power strip, that you can turn on
    > and off.


    Well, I should note that I already put the equipment on power strips when
    it was suggested (as it was a good idea). This is cheating, of course, as
    it's not even a workaround ... but it does make it easier to reboot the
    router. (Note: The original question was to not have to reboot the router.)

    Interestingly, I found yesterday (much to my chagrin) that if I put BOTH
    the router and the modem on a power strip ... this would NOT establish the
    connection this morning when I turned the power strip power on.

    I found I had to put the modem on one power strip and the router on another
    power strip. Then, I could turn off the modem's power strip at night. In
    the morning, I would turn on the modem's power strip, then after about five
    seconds, I would turn on the router's power strip, and that reliably made
    the connection.

    Of course, we're just mimicking what I was already doing before the first
    post to this thread ever occurred (i.e., rebooting the router to force it
    to dial in to the ISP with the username and password to request an IP
    address). But, it is a slight improvement (and perhaps worth the hundred or
    so posts trying to help me).

    For this improvement, I thank the entire comp.security.firewalls for your
    expert advice. I think we can conclude this thread with the reality that
    there is no easy way to tell a router to redial the ISP to ask for an IP
    address without booting the router.
    Aluxe, Oct 22, 2006
    #17
  18. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    Correction:
    > I found I had to put the modem on one power strip and the router on another
    > power strip. Then, I could turn off the modem's power strip at night. In
    > the morning, I would turn on the modem's power strip, then after about five
    > seconds, I would turn on the router's power strip, and that reliably made
    > the connection.


    Minor correction to the currently working sequence:
    - I turn the modem off at night (via its dedicated power strip)
    - I leave everything else on (including the computer)
    - I wait (at least) 4 hours (i.e., overnight)
    Note: I found no difference when I shut the router down and night so
    that's why I leave the router running all night even though there is no ISP
    to connect to because the modem is down.

    In the morning:
    - I turn on the modem (via its dedicated power strip)
    - I wait about ten seconds (never shorter, sometimes longer)
    Note: I found out from trial and error I don't have to wait for all the
    lights to light up ... so, about ten seconds seems to do the trick even
    though it takes about 25 seconds for all the lights to glow steadily.

    After the modem is powered up:
    - I then turn off the router (via its dedicated power strip)
    - Then, I wait about five seconds
    Note: I found that I had to wait just a bit for the router also.
    - I then turn on the router.

    Back on the computer:
    - I wait about twenty seconds
    - And then I point Opera to Google.
    - Generally it works in the first pass.

    I thank this expert newsgroup for suggesting the power strips as that makes
    it much easier to reboot the router ... and I hope ... in the future ...
    one of the experts on this newsgroup invents a router that can actually go
    to the ISP on it's own to connect via PPPoE and ask for an IP address
    without having to be rebooted.
    Aluxe, Oct 22, 2006
    #18
  19. Aluxe

    Guest

    Aluxe wrote:
    > On 20 Oct 2006 06:46:04 -0700, wrote:
    >
    > > So were you successful?

    >
    > Hi kingthorin,
    > Thank you very much for your help and concern.
    > No. I have not been successful yet.
    >
    > It's actually embarrassing that, after all the helpful posts (there must be
    > more than a hundred of them) I still don't have a software method (other
    > than rebooting the router) which simply tells the router to dial into the
    > PPPoE account after an assigned address is "given up" by the ISP.
    >
    > I wonder ... what is the "state" of the connection when the router is still
    > on but the ISP has "given up" on the IP address it previously assigned to
    > me? If I could only wake the connection out of that dormant state without
    > rebooting the router ...
    >
    > The confusing part is that the option we set "should" have worked!
    > - Aim the browser at the linksys router's IP address
    > - Log in as the administrator of the router
    > - Go to "Setup" "Basic Setup" "Keep Alive:"
    > - Change from: "Redial Period = 30 sec"
    > - Change to: "Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time = 5 min"
    >
    > I do not yet know why this isn't working and I am trying different things
    > each morning but (so far) I always end up rebooting the router which
    > immediately reconnects me to my PPPoE account.
    >
    > What I "think" is happening (from front to back) is:
    > - Powering up the router causes it to dial into the PPPoE account
    > - The router "dials" in with a login and password
    > - The login and password is accepted by the ISP
    > - The ISP immediately assigns an IP address to the router or modem
    > (note in this thread some say the IP address is assigned to the router,
    > others say it is assigned to the modem; suffice to say it is assigned to
    > me)
    >
    > - If I constantly use the computer, this IP assignment is maintained
    > - If I don't use the computer during the day, this IP assignment is
    > maintained


    So even after your max idle timeout time has been exceeded if you
    connect to the router it still shows as connected to your ISP?

    Are you 100% sure your computer(s) aren't generating any traffic?

    > - However, if I don't use the computer for a long time (hours), then
    > something wierd happens now (that didn't happen before I changed the
    > settings).
    >
    > - Apparently the ISP un-assignes the IP address
    > - Yet the router is apparently blissfully unaware of the change
    > - Unfortunatly, the router does NOT dial back in to get a new IP assignment


    This seems like an issue with the router, it should be disconnecting
    you after 5 mins (not multiple hours), a call to Linksys' 800 number
    might be a good move.
    , Oct 23, 2006
    #19
  20. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On 23 Oct 2006 05:08:38 -0700, wrote:
    >> - If I constantly use the computer, this IP assignment is maintained
    >> - If I don't use the computer during the day, this IP assignment is
    >> maintained

    >
    > So even after your max idle timeout time has been exceeded if you
    > connect to the router it still shows as connected to your ISP?
    >
    > Are you 100% sure your computer(s) aren't generating any traffic?


    Hi kingthorin,
    I love when I see your responses because they are all germane to the
    question at hand! Thank you for keeping on topic.

    I have no idea whether my WinXP SP2 OS or its applications are generating
    any traffic during the day when I am not using it. I turned off all the
    things I "think" are generating traffic and I have a software firewall
    which was long ago set up to prevent outside access from programs such as
    real player, adobe acrobat, etc. which constantly "phone home".

    But, is there an easy test to PROVE that no traffic has been generated for
    the past, say, fifteen minutes?
    Aluxe, Oct 23, 2006
    #20
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