Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by Aluxe, Oct 17, 2006.

  1. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:57:03 GMT, John Navas wrote:

    > On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:19:39 GMT, Aluxe <> wrote
    > in <16evhz1yifcwd$.ijb6z8uuf2h2$>:
    >
    >>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:56:34 GMT, Walter Roberson wrote:
    >>>>What is the easiest way to change my DSL IP address periodically?
    >>>
    >>> Dial-up.

    >>
    >>I do use dial-up on occasion. Netzero can be used when you need to send
    >>those private message you don't want anyone to trace. But dialup is
    >>painfully slow compared to dsl.
    >>
    >>Isn't there a software way to give up an IP address overnight and then ask
    >>for a new one in the morning without having to unplug everything?

    >
    > No. Your only real option is to use an "anonymizer" service, but that's
    > slow, painful, and/or not free.
    >
    > I'd personally worry much more about tracking cookies than about IP,
    > which is way down the list of real concerns.


    Thank you John Naves for the advice.
    I do already use software that cleans up my cookies, removes and prevents
    adware and spyware.

    At this point, I just want to reduce the number of things I have to give
    you when I post, e.g., you can tell my location from my IP adddress, for
    example. And my ISP. And my MAC. And my newsreader. And my operating
    system. And other things that I don't even know.
     
    Aluxe, Oct 17, 2006
    #1
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  2. Aluxe

    Warren Oates Guest

    In article <oyhvm878xi7x.1k4n1dizyyltj$>,
    Aluxe <> wrote:

    > At this point, I just want to reduce the number of things I have to give
    > you when I post, e.g., you can tell my location from my IP adddress, for
    > example. And my ISP. And my MAC. And my newsreader. And my operating
    > system. And other things that I don't even know.


    No, we don't get your MAC address.

    You can edit the headers in most newsreaders to change your
    Organization, User-Agent, and some others; I don't know about 40tude
    (silly bloody name). Do you really think my Newsreader is what I say it
    is?

    We only know your OS because you're using a Winders newsreader. Your
    NNTP provider is adding your NNTP-Posting-Host; think about finding one
    that's more discreet. We can't tell _exactly_ where you are from your IP
    anyway.

    I'm using a throwaway name. Mail to that address disappears into a black
    hole, and I'm not going to tell you my IP (dynamic like yours) or my ISP
    (not the same as my news provider), or where I live or my MAC's maiden
    name. But I don't really care either. You're worrying too much.
    --
    W. Oates
    Teal'c: He is concealing something.
    O'Neil: Like what?
    Teal'c: I am unsure, he is concealing it.
     
    Warren Oates, Oct 17, 2006
    #2
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  3. On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:09:15 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
    <> wrote:

    >At this point, I just want to reduce the number of things I have to give
    >you when I post, e.g., you can tell my location from my IP adddress, for
    >example. And my ISP. And my MAC. And my newsreader. And my operating
    >system. And other things that I don't even know.


    FCOL this is pointless stuff to worry about.

    If you phone someone up, they know which town you're in, and your IP
    will do no better for them. You can tell from mine I'm in Oxford. But
    where? There's 100,000 people here. And who cares about your ISP or
    newsreader?

    And nobody can tell your MAC by the way. Except your ISP, who needs to
    know.
    --
    Mark McIntyre
     
    Mark McIntyre, Oct 17, 2006
    #3
  4. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:30:31 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
    >> At this point, I just want to reduce the number of things I have to give
    >> you when I post, e.g., you can tell my location from my IP adddress, for
    >> example. And my ISP. And my MAC. And my newsreader. And my operating
    >> system. And other things that I don't even know.

    >
    > No, we don't get your MAC address.


    Hi Warren Oates,

    I guess I was wrong.

    I was told by a friend that even when I use NetZero, they can track all my
    communications by my MAC address. Is that true?

    If so, changing the MAC address would add a level of privacy (just like
    closing the bathroom door adds a level of privacy).

    It's not that we expect everyone to duck their head under the IP packet to
    look at us, but, we still close the door so as to have a modicum of
    privacy.
     
    Aluxe, Oct 18, 2006
    #4
  5. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:33:03 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
    > If you phone someone up, they know which town you're in,


    Hi Mark,

    I agree if you phone someone they can get your telephone number and do a
    reverse lookup on the Internet to find not only where they live, but the
    price of their house and that of their neighbors (I've done it at times
    myself to see who called me).

    However, you don't phone ten thousand people at a time (which is what we
    are doing here on the Internet).

    Having one person be able to identify you vs having ten thousand be able to
    identify you lets in a lot of kooks, don't you think?
     
    Aluxe, Oct 18, 2006
    #5
  6. Aluxe

    Dana Guest

    "Aluxe" <> wrote in message
    news:1m2g2nhwk5ckw$.8qr6ipjz2j4g$...
    > On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:30:31 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
    > >> At this point, I just want to reduce the number of things I have to

    give
    > >> you when I post, e.g., you can tell my location from my IP adddress,

    for
    > >> example. And my ISP. And my MAC. And my newsreader. And my operating
    > >> system. And other things that I don't even know.

    > >
    > > No, we don't get your MAC address.

    >
    > Hi Warren Oates,
    >
    > I guess I was wrong.
    >
    > I was told by a friend that even when I use NetZero, they can track all my
    > communications by my MAC address. Is that true?


    Yes if that is your ISP. and if you change your computers mac address, they
    can track that as well.
    And unless there is somekind of court order, ISP's do not track or give out
    the surfing patterns of their users.
    >
    > If so, changing the MAC address would add a level of privacy (just like
    > closing the bathroom door adds a level of privacy).


    Not really, because the ISP still knows, and if required can be told to give
    out that information.


    > It's not that we expect everyone to duck their head under the IP packet to
    > look at us, but, we still close the door so as to have a modicum of
    > privacy.
     
    Dana, Oct 18, 2006
    #6
  7. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:11:41 -0800, Dana wrote:
    >> If so, changing the MAC address would add a level of privacy (just like
    >> closing the bathroom door adds a level of privacy).

    >
    > Not really, because the ISP still knows, and if required can be told to give
    > out that information.


    Hi Dana,
    I must say, I both appreciate your help and I don't understand your
    answers.

    May I ask again?

    TEST: Assume this scenario:
    - I change my MAC address to 00-00-00-00-00-00
    - I dial into NetZero from a blocked telephone line
    - I send a personal note to an old friend that I don't want easily tracked
    back to me
    - I disconnect from NetZero
    - I change my MAC address back to 00-24-43-55-F4-F8

    QUESTION:
    Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
    brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?

    This should be a YES or NO kind of answer.
    I assume YES based on the fact that nothing in the IP packet header was
    true. But, you seem to be saying my original MAC address (which can be
    tracked back not only to the manufacturer of the PC but to the owner based
    on store records) is also appended to the packet.

    Are you saying BOTH the original and the bogus MAC address are appended to
    the packets?
     
    Aluxe, Oct 18, 2006
    #7
  8. Aluxe

    Dana Guest

    "Aluxe" <> wrote in message
    news:1p84s1mfmy7i6$.1t0zyeu0thojv$...
    > On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:11:41 -0800, Dana wrote:
    > >> If so, changing the MAC address would add a level of privacy (just like
    > >> closing the bathroom door adds a level of privacy).

    > >
    > > Not really, because the ISP still knows, and if required can be told to

    give
    > > out that information.

    >
    > Hi Dana,
    > I must say, I both appreciate your help and I don't understand your
    > answers.
    >
    > May I ask again?
    >
    > TEST: Assume this scenario:
    > - I change my MAC address to 00-00-00-00-00-00
    > - I dial into NetZero from a blocked telephone line
    > - I send a personal note to an old friend that I don't want easily tracked
    > back to me
    > - I disconnect from NetZero
    > - I change my MAC address back to 00-24-43-55-F4-F8


    And your friend has the mac address you changed via a court order.
    As the changed mac address still is associated with your account with net
    zero.
    It would be no different if you used a different computer to log into your
    netzero account.
    >
    > QUESTION:
    > Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
    > brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?


    No, because it is still associated with your account with net zero.
     
    Dana, Oct 18, 2006
    #8
  9. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:49:19 -0800, Dana wrote:
    >> QUESTION:
    >> Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
    >> brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?

    >
    > No, because it is still associated with your account with net zero.


    Hi Dana,

    Ah, I finally understand. I agree with you. I was wrong. I was, in fact,
    wasting my time by changing my MAC address periodically.

    CASE 1:
    In the case of me changing my MAC address using my paid-for ISP, I agree
    with you (now) that changing the MAC address provides no additive privacy.

    CASE 2:
    In the case of a NetZero free ISP, I see from your arguments that changing
    the MAC address still doesn't provide additive privacy.

    CASE 3:
    However, what if there was a free hotel lobby hotspot. Wouldn't a temporary
    change of the MAC address provide additional privacy?
     
    Aluxe, Oct 18, 2006
    #9
  10. Aluxe

    John Navas Guest

    On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 04:00:45 GMT, Aluxe <> wrote
    in <1m2g2nhwk5ckw$.8qr6ipjz2j4g$>:

    >On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:30:31 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
    >>> At this point, I just want to reduce the number of things I have to give
    >>> you when I post, e.g., you can tell my location from my IP adddress, for
    >>> example. And my ISP. And my MAC. And my newsreader. And my operating
    >>> system. And other things that I don't even know.

    >>
    >> No, we don't get your MAC address.

    >
    >Hi Warren Oates,
    >
    >I guess I was wrong.
    >
    >I was told by a friend that even when I use NetZero, they can track all my
    >communications by my MAC address. Is that true?


    No.

    Do you believe everything you hear?

    --
    Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
    John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
    Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
    Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
     
    John Navas, Oct 18, 2006
    #10
  11. Aluxe

    John Navas Guest

    On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:31:11 GMT, Aluxe <> wrote
    in <1p84s1mfmy7i6$.1t0zyeu0thojv$>:

    >On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:11:41 -0800, Dana wrote:
    >>> If so, changing the MAC address would add a level of privacy (just like
    >>> closing the bathroom door adds a level of privacy).

    >>
    >> Not really, because the ISP still knows, and if required can be told to give
    >> out that information.

    >
    >Hi Dana,
    >I must say, I both appreciate your help and I don't understand your
    >answers.
    >
    >May I ask again?
    >
    >TEST: Assume this scenario:
    >- I change my MAC address to 00-00-00-00-00-00
    >- I dial into NetZero from a blocked telephone line
    >- I send a personal note to an old friend that I don't want easily tracked
    >back to me
    >- I disconnect from NetZero
    >- I change my MAC address back to 00-24-43-55-F4-F8
    >
    >QUESTION:
    >Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
    >brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?


    No.

    --
    Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
    John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
    Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
    Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
     
    John Navas, Oct 18, 2006
    #11
  12. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:58:02 GMT, John Navas wrote:
    >>I was told by a friend that even when I use NetZero, they can track all my
    >>communications by my MAC address. Is that true?

    > No.
    > Do you believe everything you hear?


    Hi John Navas,

    I was under the impression that the MAC address contained two parts.

    The first part identified the manufacturer and the second part uniquely
    identified the unit.

    That unit (probably a daughterboard card or part of the motherboard) could
    then easily be traced back to the serial number of the computer.

    Which, in turn, could be traced to an individual owner of that computer by
    a variety of common methods.

    Is that not true?
     
    Aluxe, Oct 18, 2006
    #12
  13. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:58:49 GMT, John Navas wrote::
    >>Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
    >>brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?

    >
    > No.


    Hi John Navas,
    I agree with you (and Dana) about these two cases:
    CASE 1:
    Changing the MAC when dialed into your own ISP provides no extra privacy.

    CASE 2:
    Changing the MAC when dialed into NetZero, effectively provides no extra
    privacy.

    But, is it the same answer for a free hotspot?

    CASE 3:
    Does changing the MAC address when connected to a free anonymous hotspot
    provide any extra level of privacy?
     
    Aluxe, Oct 18, 2006
    #13
  14. Aluxe

    Dana Guest

    "Aluxe" <> wrote in message
    news:1frsu1jxpmmcq$.vkb0d7mzmta9$...
    > On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:49:19 -0800, Dana wrote:
    > >> QUESTION:
    > >> Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
    > >> brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?

    > >
    > > No, because it is still associated with your account with net zero.

    >
    > Hi Dana,
    >
    > Ah, I finally understand. I agree with you. I was wrong. I was, in fact,
    > wasting my time by changing my MAC address periodically.
    >
    > CASE 1:
    > In the case of me changing my MAC address using my paid-for ISP, I agree
    > with you (now) that changing the MAC address provides no additive privacy.
    >
    > CASE 2:
    > In the case of a NetZero free ISP, I see from your arguments that changing
    > the MAC address still doesn't provide additive privacy.
    >
    > CASE 3:
    > However, what if there was a free hotel lobby hotspot. Wouldn't a

    temporary
    > change of the MAC address provide additional privacy?


    For now I am saying yes. I need to look into this myself.
    As you know you have a burned in address on your NIC, that cannot be change
    by you. When you change your MAC, you are telling the protocol to use the
    MAC address you provide, vice the normally used burned in MAC. I need to see
    how the protocol works to establish the public free connection. I am pretty
    sure it is going to use the MAC you tell it to use and not use the burned in
    address. Of course you would have to change this mac prior to enabling the
    wireless adapter, or else the wireless adapter would communicate with the
    hotspot network looking for a connection using the burned in address.
     
    Dana, Oct 18, 2006
    #14
  15. Aluxe

    Dana Guest

    "Aluxe" <> wrote in message
    news:wz955p5whmg4$.18d9wx0vriwom$...
    > On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:58:02 GMT, John Navas wrote:
    > >>I was told by a friend that even when I use NetZero, they can track all

    my
    > >>communications by my MAC address. Is that true?

    > > No.
    > > Do you believe everything you hear?

    >
    > Hi John Navas,
    >
    > I was under the impression that the MAC address contained two parts.
    >
    > The first part identified the manufacturer and the second part uniquely
    > identified the unit.


    What is called the NIC, network interface card.
    This is where you plug in the cable from your ISP.
    Can be a standalone card, or now it is a chip on the mother board.

    >
    > That unit (probably a daughterboard card or part of the motherboard) could
    > then easily be traced back to the serial number of the computer.


    So long as you do not replace it. The serial number of the computer will
    never be used over the network, nor does the NIC care what the serial number
    is.
    The burned in MAC address is all the NIC cares about.
    >
    > Which, in turn, could be traced to an individual owner of that computer by
    > a variety of common methods.


    Yes, by using that MAC addressed which will be shown to be associated to
    your ISP account once you log in, or hook that computer up to your always on
    DSL/cable connection.
    What you want to find out is if there is a way to change the address of your
    DSL or cable modem, and that I have no idea about. Of course if you find a
    way, I am pretty sure the ISP will not like that very much and would
    probably shut of your connection, hence you would gain nada.
    >
    > Is that not true?


    Mostly yes.
     
    Dana, Oct 18, 2006
    #15
  16. Aluxe

    Dana Guest

    "Aluxe" <> wrote in message
    news:1frsu1jxpmmcq$.vkb0d7mzmta9$...
    > On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:49:19 -0800, Dana wrote:
    > >> QUESTION:
    > >> Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
    > >> brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?

    > >
    > > No, because it is still associated with your account with net zero.

    >
    > Hi Dana,
    >
    > Ah, I finally understand. I agree with you. I was wrong. I was, in fact,
    > wasting my time by changing my MAC address periodically.


    Like we have been trying to tell you.
    Now realize that if you want to stay anon on the net, the use of a proxy
    server while you surf, will slow you down a little, but would conceal what
    IP you are using.
    For mail and newsgroup posting, a remailer works, yes I gave you one link
    already that may have been expensive, but you could probably find one
    cheaper depending on how much you expect to post and download.
    Really the only one who has the goods on you, is your ISP. But unless they
    have a reason (court order, complaints, etc ) they are not tracking you.
    There is technology that will track surfing behavior and block sites that
    are not allowed.
    Kuwait and other middle eastern countries and I heard China tracks your
    surfing and blocks sites.
    The military network has devices installed where it records what sites
    people go to by MAC address, so the military can identify what computer was
    used. Yes the military tracks which MAC address is assigned to what computer
    (the units I supported recently in Iraq were).

    >
    > CASE 1:
    > In the case of me changing my MAC address using my paid-for ISP, I agree
    > with you (now) that changing the MAC address provides no additive privacy.
    >
    > CASE 2:
    > In the case of a NetZero free ISP, I see from your arguments that changing
    > the MAC address still doesn't provide additive privacy.
    >
    > CASE 3:
    > However, what if there was a free hotel lobby hotspot. Wouldn't a

    temporary
    > change of the MAC address provide additional privacy?
     
    Dana, Oct 18, 2006
    #16
  17. Aluxe

    Warren Oates Guest

    In article <1p84s1mfmy7i6$.1t0zyeu0thojv$>,
    Aluxe <> wrote:

    > QUESTION:
    > Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
    > brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?


    No.
    --
    W. Oates
    Teal'c: He is concealing something.
    O'Neil: Like what?
    Teal'c: I am unsure, he is concealing it.
     
    Warren Oates, Oct 18, 2006
    #17
  18. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 22:50:16 -0800, Dana wrote:

    >> CASE 3:
    >> However, what if there was a free hotel lobby hotspot.
    >> Wouldn't a prior change of the MAC address add privacy?

    >
    > For now I am saying yes. I need to look into this myself.
    > As you know you have a burned in address on your NIC,
    > that cannot be changed by you.


    The only minor gotcha I know about is there is apparently a (hidden?) bit
    on the MAC address which indicates whether you are using the burned-in MAC
    or a modified MAC.

    So, as far as I know, the only thing they can tell is that you're not using
    the original MAC ... but that in and of itself doesn't give them the
    original MAC (AFAIK).

    The problem with this assumption (of the change bit) is that means the MAC
    address is NOT the FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF we think it is because that doesn't
    allow for the change bit. This change-bit part confuses me.
     
    Aluxe, Oct 18, 2006
    #18
  19. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 07:33:01 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
    >> Assuming a free hotspot ...
    >> Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
    >> brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?

    >
    > No.


    Hi Warren Oates,
    I think this particular question is still out for a reasonable jury to
    decide.

    My hypothesis (needs to stand the test of reason) is that all "they" know
    about the computer and owner is the (bogus) MAC address and the fact that
    the bogus MAC address is not the original burned-in MAC address (due to a
    presumed change bit being flipped that you can not unflip once you change
    the MAC address). They don't have any other identifying information (other
    than the content of the messages sent by this means).

    One other question I have is what happens if you change the MAC address
    back.

    Does than 'unchange' the change bit on the MAC address?
     
    Aluxe, Oct 18, 2006
    #19
  20. Aluxe

    Aluxe Guest

    On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:01:35 -0800, Dana wrote:
    > What you want to find out is if there is a way to change the address of your
    > DSL or cable modem, and that I have no idea about. Of course if you find a
    > way, I am pretty sure the ISP will not like that very much and would
    > probably shut of your connection, hence you would gain nada.


    Hi Dana,

    We're getting somewhere here. I'm sorry I was so thick as to not understand
    prior comments about changing the MAC address not adding privacy under most
    curcumstances. But, I still think under the free hotspot circumstance,
    changing the MAC address is additive to privacy.

    I can answer your concerns above - having done it many times .
    yes
    no
    maybe

    Yes you can change your MAC address (it's trivial).
    MacMakeUp changes the MAC address on a Windows computer.
    http://www.gorlani.com/publicprj/macmakeup/macmakeup.asp

    No, the ISP doesn't care one twit (I've done it hundreds of times and
    nothing bad has happened).

    Maybe there is a change bit (I read that somewhere) in the MAC address so
    the ISP and the hotel lobby both know you changed the MAC address. In the
    case of the ISP, they never had your original MAC address (since I changed
    it looong ago before joining my current ISP) ... so all they ever had were
    the random MAC addresses but they can associate some of those random MAC
    addresses to me so I must be careful not to reuse them.
     
    Aluxe, Oct 18, 2006
    #20
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