Re: Ported mobile phone number call charges.

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Woody, Sep 25, 2008.

  1. Woody

    Woody Guest

    "B. Wright" <> wrote in message
    news:gbeess$1om$...
    > Just curious if anyone has some experience with how calls to
    > ported mobile phone numbers are charged with VoIP and traditional
    > carriers. I have a feeling I know the answer and the VoIP companies
    > are
    > simply charging based on number prefix only. I imagine the carriers
    > controlling the network and actually terminating the call bill or get
    > billed at the actual rate of terminating carrier because a database
    > lookup reveals that 07810 xxx xxx number was actually ported to a new
    > carrier besides Vodafone (as an example). That being the case there
    > are instances where the person originating and billing the call is
    > pocketing a much higher per minute rate than they should be.
    >
    > Main reason I ask is I have a Vodafone number that I was
    > considering porting but wondering if it's worth it since
    > friends/family
    > are still going to be charged the higher rate in many cases.
    >
    > On these lines as well, not exactly VoIP related, but someone
    > here surely knows. Do any of the PAYG carriers still not collect for
    > freephone (0800) calls? I know in the past Orange (and maybe O2 or
    > one
    > other) did not, while Vodafone and most others did collect the same
    > per
    > minute rate as any other call to a landline.
    >
    > Thanks for any info.
    >
    >



    AFAIAA charging is almost always based on the original owner of the
    header code. My number - 07909 - was originally Vodafone but is now on
    Orange. Orange charge it as an Orange call but most others still charge
    it as Vodafone.


    --
    Woody

    harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
     
    Woody, Sep 25, 2008
    #1
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  2. Woody

    alexd Guest

    On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 02:36:45 +0000, B. Wright wrote:

    > I don't believe the "enormous database" is so
    > enormous or unmanageable as the other poster thinks. In fact, they HAVE
    > to have a database in place to know where to route the call if the
    > number is ported.


    The "enormous database" doesn't exist yet, hence the 'Atlantic Telecom
    Problem':

    http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/uk_numb_port/uk_numb_port_cons/

    Although various operators seem to not want a sensible approach to number
    portability:

    http://news.zdnet.co.uk/communications/0,1000000085,39490067,00.htm

    > Also, CLID, at least from what I know, is generally
    > providing the name by doing a "reverse lookup" in a database. Without
    > knowing all the details on that I think that the SS7 only passes the
    > number for CLID and the local switch/carrier has to provide the name via
    > local database lookup.


    No providers do this in the UK as yet, presumably citing some pathetic
    excuse about "data protection".

    > I don't see any reason certain carriers should collect more for
    > terminating than others.


    Agreed.

    --
    <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    09:43:51 up 5 days, 15:53, 1 user, load average: 4.00, 4.02, 4.00
    They call me titless because I have no tits
     
    alexd, Sep 27, 2008
    #2
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  3. Woody

    Iain Guest

    B. Wright quoted and wrote:

    >>>> AFAIAA charging is almost always based on the original owner of the
    >>>> header code. My number - 07909 - was originally Vodafone but is now on
    >>>> Orange. Orange charge it as an Orange call but most others still charge
    >>>> it as Vodafone.


    Most mobile networks have one charge for on-net and another for
    cross-net. They don't charge different rates for different networks.

    >>> The fixed line operators have no simple choice - without some enormous
    >>> database, they have no idea where the call is terminating, they simply
    >>> deliver the call to the network that issued the number and then they, in
    >>> turn, pass the call on to the terminating network.


    That's more or less correct.

    >> Re the example above.
    >> I have been reliably informed that Ofcom require the call to be charged as a
    >> call to Orange.


    Unreliably informed. Ofcom requires nothing of the sort. The call would
    be charged as a call to Vodafone from a fixed line network.

    > This is what I believed *should* happen,


    Nope. Fixed line operators (including VOIP) have no idea which network
    the number is on, and can only chare by dialling code (the network that
    issued the number) It has always been like that.

    > but, in the case of
    > VoIP many of the carriers are not regulated by Ofcom since they're
    > outside of the UK. I don't believe the "enormous database" is so
    > enormous or unmanageable as the other poster thinks. In fact, they HAVE
    > to have a database in place to know where to route the call if the
    > number is ported.


    There are several. Each network maintains at least one. See
    http://www.mobileshop.org/howitworks/databases.htm especially about NP
    databases.


    > Also, CLID, at least from what I know, is generally
    > providing the name by doing a "reverse lookup" in a database.


    Eh? In the UK, CLID sends a number, not a name.

    > Without
    > knowing all the details on that I think that the SS7 only passes the
    > number for CLID and the local switch/carrier has to provide the name via
    > local database lookup.


    What name?

    > What it comes down to is most carriers routing to the UK from
    > the outside are taking the lazy most profitable route and basing it only
    > on prefix.


    There is no other way, until this common database is established (if it
    ever is)
     
    Iain, Oct 3, 2008
    #3
  4. Woody

    Iain Guest

    B. Wright wrote:
    > Iain <> wrote:
    >> B. Wright quoted and wrote:
    >>
    >> Most mobile networks have one charge for on-net and another for
    >> cross-net. They don't charge different rates for different networks.
    >>

    >
    > Hmm.. well, I've seen several instances of this not being the
    > case and a carrier charging different rates for x, y, and z carrier.
    > Without spending a lot of time looking them up, one I know of off hand
    > is Voicestick.


    Voicestick is not a UK mobile network. It is a VOIP operator, as far as
    I know.
     
    Iain, Oct 5, 2008
    #4
  5. Woody

    theFug Guest

    On 27 sep, 10:52, alexd <> wrote:
    > On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 02:36:45 +0000, B. Wright wrote:
    > >                    I don't believe the "enormous database" is so
    > > enormous or unmanageable as the other poster thinks.  In fact, they HAVE
    > > to have a database in place to know where to route the call if the
    > > number is ported.

    >
    > The "enormous database" doesn't exist yet, hence the 'Atlantic Telecom
    > Problem':
    >
    > http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/uk_numb_port/uk_numb_port_cons/
    >
    > Although various operators seem to not want a sensible approach to number
    > portability:
    >
    > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/communications/0,1000000085,39490067,00.htm
    >
    > > Also, CLID, at least from what I know, is generally
    > > providing the name by doing a "reverse lookup" in a database.  Without
    > > knowing all the details on that I think that the SS7 only passes the
    > > number for CLID and the local switch/carrier has to provide the name via
    > > local database lookup.

    >
    > No providers do this in the UK as yet, presumably citing some pathetic
    > excuse about "data protection".
    >
    > > I don't see any reason certain carriers should collect more for
    > > terminating than others.

    >
    > Agreed.
    >
    > --
    >  <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    >  09:43:51 up 5 days, 15:53,  1 user,  load average: 4.00, 4.02, 4.00
    >  They call me titless because I have no tits


    The CLID is also interconnected to the sip session ?
     
    theFug, Oct 5, 2008
    #5
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