Re: Outsourcing.... how depressing

Discussion in 'MCSE' started by Mark, Jul 9, 2003.

  1. Mark

    Mark Guest

    It really depends on where you are working and what you are doing. The
    simple stuff can always be outsourced to another country.

    I live in South Africa and have all my life (which is not that long at 21)
    and work for a company which is involved in call centre outsourcing from
    Europe to South Africa and the Phillipines, in fact.

    You have to realise, and you probably do, that as the US has such a strong
    currency (even with all that has happened) it makes simple business
    operations expensive when you could be outsourcing them to another country
    while paying half or less the wages paid on home territory.

    So either the highly paid (by world standards) tech guy gets laid off, or
    the entire company can go bust and everyone will lose their jobs. Thats an
    extreme example, but it all boils down to the bottom line! The bottom line
    is affected by customer satisfaction, which is why a great deal of said
    companies fail, and which makes outsourcing a potential risk to any compmany
    considering it.

    Globalisation. Everyone in IT is familiar with the term, and if you didnt
    know, this is how it works and will continue to work.

    But, as a company handling outsourcing it can be very challenging to
    survive. Think of the technical helpdesks in India that have gone out of
    business because none of the American or other english speaking clients
    understood what was being said? Its happened. And it continues to happen.

    It might seem unfair, but thats life. To survive, we all need to make sure
    that we have knowledge and skills that cant be outsourced. The industry has
    not decided that oursourcing IS the way to go. Its new and popular and in
    demand (like certain certifications I have were at one stage). If enough
    people decide to get into outsourcing, you'll see a significant drop in
    quality delivered (like with certifications!) as everyone tries to find the
    short cuts to making cash. As such, certain companies will learn that work
    gets done at home, where you can monitor the operation. Others will decide
    that they are satisfied with outsourced work. Trends develop, but nothing is
    ever concrete in business, not even where contracts and legal agreements are
    concerned!

    Cheers,
    Mark


    "J" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > This is very disturbing... South Africa and the Philippines
    > are competing as well.
    >
    > India wins lion's share of outsourcing
    > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2137254,00.html
    >
    >
    > Outsourcing may doom future IT careers
    > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030709/152/e3xvl.html
    > Granted, this is Australia they're talking about, but
    > still... it sounds familiar.
     
    Mark, Jul 9, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Mark

    billyw Guest

    thats a fairly balanced view of things, but the fact "on the ground" is that
    someone ceases to be able to earn a living, because things have moved to
    more cost efficient countries.
    that person doesn't care if he is helping some other economy, only the fact
    that now his family could be in for a hard time

    "Mark" <> wrote in message
    news:3f0c5ff7$0$...
    > It really depends on where you are working and what you are doing. The
    > simple stuff can always be outsourced to another country.
    >
    > I live in South Africa and have all my life (which is not that long at 21)
    > and work for a company which is involved in call centre outsourcing from
    > Europe to South Africa and the Phillipines, in fact.
    >
    > You have to realise, and you probably do, that as the US has such a strong
    > currency (even with all that has happened) it makes simple business
    > operations expensive when you could be outsourcing them to another country
    > while paying half or less the wages paid on home territory.
    >
    > So either the highly paid (by world standards) tech guy gets laid off, or
    > the entire company can go bust and everyone will lose their jobs. Thats an
    > extreme example, but it all boils down to the bottom line! The bottom line
    > is affected by customer satisfaction, which is why a great deal of said
    > companies fail, and which makes outsourcing a potential risk to any

    compmany
    > considering it.
    >
    > Globalisation. Everyone in IT is familiar with the term, and if you didnt
    > know, this is how it works and will continue to work.
    >
    > But, as a company handling outsourcing it can be very challenging to
    > survive. Think of the technical helpdesks in India that have gone out of
    > business because none of the American or other english speaking clients
    > understood what was being said? Its happened. And it continues to happen.
    >
    > It might seem unfair, but thats life. To survive, we all need to make sure
    > that we have knowledge and skills that cant be outsourced. The industry

    has
    > not decided that oursourcing IS the way to go. Its new and popular and in
    > demand (like certain certifications I have were at one stage). If enough
    > people decide to get into outsourcing, you'll see a significant drop in
    > quality delivered (like with certifications!) as everyone tries to find

    the
    > short cuts to making cash. As such, certain companies will learn that work
    > gets done at home, where you can monitor the operation. Others will decide
    > that they are satisfied with outsourced work. Trends develop, but nothing

    is
    > ever concrete in business, not even where contracts and legal agreements

    are
    > concerned!
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Mark
    >
    >
    > "J" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > This is very disturbing... South Africa and the Philippines
    > > are competing as well.
    > >
    > > India wins lion's share of outsourcing
    > > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2137254,00.html
    > >
    > >
    > > Outsourcing may doom future IT careers
    > > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030709/152/e3xvl.html
    > > Granted, this is Australia they're talking about, but
    > > still... it sounds familiar.

    >
    >
     
    billyw, Jul 9, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Mark

    JaR Guest

    billyw wrote in message ...
    >thats a fairly balanced view of things, but the fact "on the ground" is

    that
    >someone ceases to be able to earn a living, because things have moved to
    >more cost efficient countries.
    >that person doesn't care if he is helping some other economy, only the fact
    >that now his family could be in for a hard time
    >


    Yup, and who the hell is going to be buying these company's products, when
    about 10% [0]of their marketplace is out of work, and another 50%[0] is
    trying to get by at minimum wage. Let's not lose sight of the fact that the
    IT industry is not the only one suffering from 'globalization'

    J.R. Jones

    [0] 78% of all statistics are made up on the spot [1]


    [1] including this one :cool:
     
    JaR, Jul 10, 2003
    #3
  4. Mark

    Ray Guest

    Globalization, outsourcing, Oh Really!

    I need meat, peas and carrots. We can produce everything that we need
    here in our country. This is a bunch of crap and we need to look at it
    as such. Sometimes education and modern thinking stands in the way of
    good old common sense.

    Maybe outsourching does have some merrit - looks like South Africa needs
    the US Millitary to solve some of it's problems that they cannot solve
    by themselves. Of well, Yeah, we will go there with out outsourced
    (lowest bidder)foreign build shit and loose more American lives so that
    we can have "Globalization"

    No Thanks!

    Ray

    Mark wrote:
    > It really depends on where you are working and what you are doing. The
    > simple stuff can always be outsourced to another country.
    >
    > I live in South Africa and have all my life (which is not that long at 21)
    > and work for a company which is involved in call centre outsourcing from
    > Europe to South Africa and the Phillipines, in fact.
    >
    > You have to realise, and you probably do, that as the US has such a strong
    > currency (even with all that has happened) it makes simple business
    > operations expensive when you could be outsourcing them to another country
    > while paying half or less the wages paid on home territory.
    >
    > So either the highly paid (by world standards) tech guy gets laid off, or
    > the entire company can go bust and everyone will lose their jobs. Thats an
    > extreme example, but it all boils down to the bottom line! The bottom line
    > is affected by customer satisfaction, which is why a great deal of said
    > companies fail, and which makes outsourcing a potential risk to any compmany
    > considering it.
    >
    > Globalisation. Everyone in IT is familiar with the term, and if you didnt
    > know, this is how it works and will continue to work.
    >
    > But, as a company handling outsourcing it can be very challenging to
    > survive. Think of the technical helpdesks in India that have gone out of
    > business because none of the American or other english speaking clients
    > understood what was being said? Its happened. And it continues to happen.
    >
    > It might seem unfair, but thats life. To survive, we all need to make sure
    > that we have knowledge and skills that cant be outsourced. The industry has
    > not decided that oursourcing IS the way to go. Its new and popular and in
    > demand (like certain certifications I have were at one stage). If enough
    > people decide to get into outsourcing, you'll see a significant drop in
    > quality delivered (like with certifications!) as everyone tries to find the
    > short cuts to making cash. As such, certain companies will learn that work
    > gets done at home, where you can monitor the operation. Others will decide
    > that they are satisfied with outsourced work. Trends develop, but nothing is
    > ever concrete in business, not even where contracts and legal agreements are
    > concerned!
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Mark
    >
    >
    > "J" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>This is very disturbing... South Africa and the Philippines
    >>are competing as well.
    >>
    >>India wins lion's share of outsourcing
    >>http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2137254,00.html
    >>
    >>
    >>Outsourcing may doom future IT careers
    >>http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030709/152/e3xvl.html
    >>Granted, this is Australia they're talking about, but
    >>still... it sounds familiar.

    >
    >
    >
     
    Ray, Jul 10, 2003
    #4
  5. Mark

    Ray Guest

    Go get em. Gary!

    Huah!

    Ray

    Gary - US wrote:
    > Not to wish you bad Mark but I hope all you off shore faukers go tits up. I
    > know the big companies that are doing it did not make that choice to keep
    > from "going out of business" but to increase the amount of bonuses the board
    > of directors and other execs will be making. So that argument is bullshit.
    > They just want to pay dirt to some third world country like yours instead of
    > paying what it is worth here. I have talked to some of the folks in the
    > Indian call centers. What a cluster fauk. Could not understand shit they
    > were saying. Not what I expect when I buy products or services from an
    > American company. And the ones that continue to do it will not get my
    > business.
    >
    > Semper Fi & God Bless American
    > Gary - US
    >
    > http://www.mcngp.tk
    > The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
    >
    > "Mark" <> wrote in message
    > news:3f0c5ff7$0$...
    >
    >>It really depends on where you are working and what you are doing. The
    >>simple stuff can always be outsourced to another country.
    >>
    >>I live in South Africa and have all my life (which is not that long at 21)
    >>and work for a company which is involved in call centre outsourcing from
    >>Europe to South Africa and the Phillipines, in fact.
    >>
    >>You have to realise, and you probably do, that as the US has such a strong
    >>currency (even with all that has happened) it makes simple business
    >>operations expensive when you could be outsourcing them to another country
    >>while paying half or less the wages paid on home territory.
    >>
    >>So either the highly paid (by world standards) tech guy gets laid off, or
    >>the entire company can go bust and everyone will lose their jobs. Thats an
    >>extreme example, but it all boils down to the bottom line! The bottom line
    >>is affected by customer satisfaction, which is why a great deal of said
    >>companies fail, and which makes outsourcing a potential risk to any

    >
    > compmany
    >
    >>considering it.
    >>
    >>Globalisation. Everyone in IT is familiar with the term, and if you didnt
    >>know, this is how it works and will continue to work.
    >>
    >>But, as a company handling outsourcing it can be very challenging to
    >>survive. Think of the technical helpdesks in India that have gone out of
    >>business because none of the American or other english speaking clients
    >>understood what was being said? Its happened. And it continues to happen.
    >>
    >>It might seem unfair, but thats life. To survive, we all need to make sure
    >>that we have knowledge and skills that cant be outsourced. The industry

    >
    > has
    >
    >>not decided that oursourcing IS the way to go. Its new and popular and in
    >>demand (like certain certifications I have were at one stage). If enough
    >>people decide to get into outsourcing, you'll see a significant drop in
    >>quality delivered (like with certifications!) as everyone tries to find

    >
    > the
    >
    >>short cuts to making cash. As such, certain companies will learn that work
    >>gets done at home, where you can monitor the operation. Others will decide
    >>that they are satisfied with outsourced work. Trends develop, but nothing

    >
    > is
    >
    >>ever concrete in business, not even where contracts and legal agreements

    >
    > are
    >
    >>concerned!
    >>
    >>Cheers,
    >>Mark
    >>
    >>
    >>"J" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>
    >>>This is very disturbing... South Africa and the Philippines
    >>>are competing as well.
    >>>
    >>>India wins lion's share of outsourcing
    >>>http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2137254,00.html
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Outsourcing may doom future IT careers
    >>>http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030709/152/e3xvl.html
    >>>Granted, this is Australia they're talking about, but
    >>>still... it sounds familiar.

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Ray, Jul 10, 2003
    #5
  6. Mark

    Gary - US Guest

    "cost efficient"? You mean dirt poor, third world country don't you?

    "billyw" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > thats a fairly balanced view of things, but the fact "on the ground" is

    that
    > someone ceases to be able to earn a living, because things have moved to
    > more cost efficient countries.
    > that person doesn't care if he is helping some other economy, only the

    fact
    > that now his family could be in for a hard time
    >
    > "Mark" <> wrote in message
    > news:3f0c5ff7$0$...
    > > It really depends on where you are working and what you are doing. The
    > > simple stuff can always be outsourced to another country.
    > >
    > > I live in South Africa and have all my life (which is not that long at

    21)
    > > and work for a company which is involved in call centre outsourcing from
    > > Europe to South Africa and the Phillipines, in fact.
    > >
    > > You have to realise, and you probably do, that as the US has such a

    strong
    > > currency (even with all that has happened) it makes simple business
    > > operations expensive when you could be outsourcing them to another

    country
    > > while paying half or less the wages paid on home territory.
    > >
    > > So either the highly paid (by world standards) tech guy gets laid off,

    or
    > > the entire company can go bust and everyone will lose their jobs. Thats

    an
    > > extreme example, but it all boils down to the bottom line! The bottom

    line
    > > is affected by customer satisfaction, which is why a great deal of said
    > > companies fail, and which makes outsourcing a potential risk to any

    > compmany
    > > considering it.
    > >
    > > Globalisation. Everyone in IT is familiar with the term, and if you

    didnt
    > > know, this is how it works and will continue to work.
    > >
    > > But, as a company handling outsourcing it can be very challenging to
    > > survive. Think of the technical helpdesks in India that have gone out of
    > > business because none of the American or other english speaking clients
    > > understood what was being said? Its happened. And it continues to

    happen.
    > >
    > > It might seem unfair, but thats life. To survive, we all need to make

    sure
    > > that we have knowledge and skills that cant be outsourced. The industry

    > has
    > > not decided that oursourcing IS the way to go. Its new and popular and

    in
    > > demand (like certain certifications I have were at one stage). If enough
    > > people decide to get into outsourcing, you'll see a significant drop in
    > > quality delivered (like with certifications!) as everyone tries to find

    > the
    > > short cuts to making cash. As such, certain companies will learn that

    work
    > > gets done at home, where you can monitor the operation. Others will

    decide
    > > that they are satisfied with outsourced work. Trends develop, but

    nothing
    > is
    > > ever concrete in business, not even where contracts and legal agreements

    > are
    > > concerned!
    > >
    > > Cheers,
    > > Mark
    > >
    > >
    > > "J" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > This is very disturbing... South Africa and the Philippines
    > > > are competing as well.
    > > >
    > > > India wins lion's share of outsourcing
    > > > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2137254,00.html
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Outsourcing may doom future IT careers
    > > > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030709/152/e3xvl.html
    > > > Granted, this is Australia they're talking about, but
    > > > still... it sounds familiar.

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Gary - US, Jul 10, 2003
    #6
  7. Mark

    billyw Guest

    i'm not as ignorant as to call others i know little about, stuff like that
    i leave that to you

    "Gary - US" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "cost efficient"? You mean dirt poor, third world country don't you?
    >
    > "billyw" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > thats a fairly balanced view of things, but the fact "on the ground" is

    > that
    > > someone ceases to be able to earn a living, because things have moved to
    > > more cost efficient countries.
    > > that person doesn't care if he is helping some other economy, only the

    > fact
    > > that now his family could be in for a hard time
    > >
    > > "Mark" <> wrote in message
    > > news:3f0c5ff7$0$...
    > > > It really depends on where you are working and what you are doing. The
    > > > simple stuff can always be outsourced to another country.
    > > >
    > > > I live in South Africa and have all my life (which is not that long at

    > 21)
    > > > and work for a company which is involved in call centre outsourcing

    from
    > > > Europe to South Africa and the Phillipines, in fact.
    > > >
    > > > You have to realise, and you probably do, that as the US has such a

    > strong
    > > > currency (even with all that has happened) it makes simple business
    > > > operations expensive when you could be outsourcing them to another

    > country
    > > > while paying half or less the wages paid on home territory.
    > > >
    > > > So either the highly paid (by world standards) tech guy gets laid off,

    > or
    > > > the entire company can go bust and everyone will lose their jobs.

    Thats
    > an
    > > > extreme example, but it all boils down to the bottom line! The bottom

    > line
    > > > is affected by customer satisfaction, which is why a great deal of

    said
    > > > companies fail, and which makes outsourcing a potential risk to any

    > > compmany
    > > > considering it.
    > > >
    > > > Globalisation. Everyone in IT is familiar with the term, and if you

    > didnt
    > > > know, this is how it works and will continue to work.
    > > >
    > > > But, as a company handling outsourcing it can be very challenging to
    > > > survive. Think of the technical helpdesks in India that have gone out

    of
    > > > business because none of the American or other english speaking

    clients
    > > > understood what was being said? Its happened. And it continues to

    > happen.
    > > >
    > > > It might seem unfair, but thats life. To survive, we all need to make

    > sure
    > > > that we have knowledge and skills that cant be outsourced. The

    industry
    > > has
    > > > not decided that oursourcing IS the way to go. Its new and popular and

    > in
    > > > demand (like certain certifications I have were at one stage). If

    enough
    > > > people decide to get into outsourcing, you'll see a significant drop

    in
    > > > quality delivered (like with certifications!) as everyone tries to

    find
    > > the
    > > > short cuts to making cash. As such, certain companies will learn that

    > work
    > > > gets done at home, where you can monitor the operation. Others will

    > decide
    > > > that they are satisfied with outsourced work. Trends develop, but

    > nothing
    > > is
    > > > ever concrete in business, not even where contracts and legal

    agreements
    > > are
    > > > concerned!
    > > >
    > > > Cheers,
    > > > Mark
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "J" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:...
    > > > > This is very disturbing... South Africa and the Philippines
    > > > > are competing as well.
    > > > >
    > > > > India wins lion's share of outsourcing
    > > > > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2137254,00.html
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Outsourcing may doom future IT careers
    > > > > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030709/152/e3xvl.html
    > > > > Granted, this is Australia they're talking about, but
    > > > > still... it sounds familiar.
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    billyw, Jul 10, 2003
    #7
  8. Mark

    billyw Guest

    coherent sentences might be something you look into.
    remember, stories have a beginning a middle and an end

    "Ray" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Globalization, outsourcing, Oh Really!
    >
    > I need meat, peas and carrots. We can produce everything that we need
    > here in our country. This is a bunch of crap and we need to look at it
    > as such. Sometimes education and modern thinking stands in the way of
    > good old common sense.
    >
    > Maybe outsourching does have some merrit - looks like South Africa needs
    > the US Millitary to solve some of it's problems that they cannot solve
    > by themselves. Of well, Yeah, we will go there with out outsourced
    > (lowest bidder)foreign build shit and loose more American lives so that
    > we can have "Globalization"
    >
    > No Thanks!
    >
    > Ray
    >
    > Mark wrote:
    > > It really depends on where you are working and what you are doing. The
    > > simple stuff can always be outsourced to another country.
    > >
    > > I live in South Africa and have all my life (which is not that long at

    21)
    > > and work for a company which is involved in call centre outsourcing from
    > > Europe to South Africa and the Phillipines, in fact.
    > >
    > > You have to realise, and you probably do, that as the US has such a

    strong
    > > currency (even with all that has happened) it makes simple business
    > > operations expensive when you could be outsourcing them to another

    country
    > > while paying half or less the wages paid on home territory.
    > >
    > > So either the highly paid (by world standards) tech guy gets laid off,

    or
    > > the entire company can go bust and everyone will lose their jobs. Thats

    an
    > > extreme example, but it all boils down to the bottom line! The bottom

    line
    > > is affected by customer satisfaction, which is why a great deal of said
    > > companies fail, and which makes outsourcing a potential risk to any

    compmany
    > > considering it.
    > >
    > > Globalisation. Everyone in IT is familiar with the term, and if you

    didnt
    > > know, this is how it works and will continue to work.
    > >
    > > But, as a company handling outsourcing it can be very challenging to
    > > survive. Think of the technical helpdesks in India that have gone out of
    > > business because none of the American or other english speaking clients
    > > understood what was being said? Its happened. And it continues to

    happen.
    > >
    > > It might seem unfair, but thats life. To survive, we all need to make

    sure
    > > that we have knowledge and skills that cant be outsourced. The industry

    has
    > > not decided that oursourcing IS the way to go. Its new and popular and

    in
    > > demand (like certain certifications I have were at one stage). If enough
    > > people decide to get into outsourcing, you'll see a significant drop in
    > > quality delivered (like with certifications!) as everyone tries to find

    the
    > > short cuts to making cash. As such, certain companies will learn that

    work
    > > gets done at home, where you can monitor the operation. Others will

    decide
    > > that they are satisfied with outsourced work. Trends develop, but

    nothing is
    > > ever concrete in business, not even where contracts and legal agreements

    are
    > > concerned!
    > >
    > > Cheers,
    > > Mark
    > >
    > >
    > > "J" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > >
    > >>This is very disturbing... South Africa and the Philippines
    > >>are competing as well.
    > >>
    > >>India wins lion's share of outsourcing
    > >>http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2137254,00.html
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>Outsourcing may doom future IT careers
    > >>http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030709/152/e3xvl.html
    > >>Granted, this is Australia they're talking about, but
    > >>still... it sounds familiar.

    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
     
    billyw, Jul 10, 2003
    #8
  9. Mark

    Wilson Guest

    "JaR" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > billyw wrote in message ...
    > >thats a fairly balanced view of things, but the fact "on the ground" is

    > that
    > >someone ceases to be able to earn a living, because things have moved to
    > >more cost efficient countries.
    > >that person doesn't care if he is helping some other economy, only the

    fact
    > >that now his family could be in for a hard time
    > >

    >
    > Yup, and who the hell is going to be buying these company's products, when
    > about 10% [0]of their marketplace is out of work, and another 50%[0] is
    > trying to get by at minimum wage. Let's not lose sight of the fact that

    the
    > IT industry is not the only one suffering from 'globalization'
    >


    IT workers are getting hit hard but the biggest financial losses from
    ''offshoring' are to radiologists and accountants.

    The IRS should be seeing the impact at this time with everyone getting a
    salery cut.

    Ten bucks an hour is becoming good money at this point.
     
    Wilson, Jul 10, 2003
    #9
  10. Mark

    Consultant Guest

    10 bucks? you can get 8 an hour at in & out and 50% off meals!


    "Wilson" <> wrote in message
    news:p1fPa.7911$2.webusenet.com...
    >
    > "JaR" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > billyw wrote in message ...
    > > >thats a fairly balanced view of things, but the fact "on the ground" is

    > > that
    > > >someone ceases to be able to earn a living, because things have moved

    to
    > > >more cost efficient countries.
    > > >that person doesn't care if he is helping some other economy, only the

    > fact
    > > >that now his family could be in for a hard time
    > > >

    > >
    > > Yup, and who the hell is going to be buying these company's products,

    when
    > > about 10% [0]of their marketplace is out of work, and another 50%[0] is
    > > trying to get by at minimum wage. Let's not lose sight of the fact that

    > the
    > > IT industry is not the only one suffering from 'globalization'
    > >

    >
    > IT workers are getting hit hard but the biggest financial losses from
    > ''offshoring' are to radiologists and accountants.
    >
    > The IRS should be seeing the impact at this time with everyone getting a
    > salery cut.
    >
    > Ten bucks an hour is becoming good money at this point.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
    Consultant, Jul 10, 2003
    #10
  11. Mark

    KLXrider Guest

    On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:13:27 -0700, "Consultant"
    <> wrote:

    >10 bucks? you can get 8 an hour at in & out and 50% off meals!
    >
    >

    30k/year as a McManager
     
    KLXrider, Jul 10, 2003
    #11
  12. Mark

    Mark Guest

    They arent referred to as 3rd world countries. You'll seem them being
    referred to as "developing" countries. Its an economical matter in part. I
    mean in South Africa, a can of coke costs you 40c US wheras in NY you'd be
    greatful to find a place selling it for less than a dollar.

    "Gary - US" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "cost efficient"? You mean dirt poor, third world country don't you?
    >
    > "billyw" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > thats a fairly balanced view of things, but the fact "on the ground" is

    > that
    > > someone ceases to be able to earn a living, because things have moved to
    > > more cost efficient countries.
    > > that person doesn't care if he is helping some other economy, only the

    > fact
    > > that now his family could be in for a hard time
    > >
    > > "Mark" <> wrote in message
    > > news:3f0c5ff7$0$...
    > > > It really depends on where you are working and what you are doing. The
    > > > simple stuff can always be outsourced to another country.
    > > >
    > > > I live in South Africa and have all my life (which is not that long at

    > 21)
    > > > and work for a company which is involved in call centre outsourcing

    from
    > > > Europe to South Africa and the Phillipines, in fact.
    > > >
    > > > You have to realise, and you probably do, that as the US has such a

    > strong
    > > > currency (even with all that has happened) it makes simple business
    > > > operations expensive when you could be outsourcing them to another

    > country
    > > > while paying half or less the wages paid on home territory.
    > > >
    > > > So either the highly paid (by world standards) tech guy gets laid off,

    > or
    > > > the entire company can go bust and everyone will lose their jobs.

    Thats
    > an
    > > > extreme example, but it all boils down to the bottom line! The bottom

    > line
    > > > is affected by customer satisfaction, which is why a great deal of

    said
    > > > companies fail, and which makes outsourcing a potential risk to any

    > > compmany
    > > > considering it.
    > > >
    > > > Globalisation. Everyone in IT is familiar with the term, and if you

    > didnt
    > > > know, this is how it works and will continue to work.
    > > >
    > > > But, as a company handling outsourcing it can be very challenging to
    > > > survive. Think of the technical helpdesks in India that have gone out

    of
    > > > business because none of the American or other english speaking

    clients
    > > > understood what was being said? Its happened. And it continues to

    > happen.
    > > >
    > > > It might seem unfair, but thats life. To survive, we all need to make

    > sure
    > > > that we have knowledge and skills that cant be outsourced. The

    industry
    > > has
    > > > not decided that oursourcing IS the way to go. Its new and popular and

    > in
    > > > demand (like certain certifications I have were at one stage). If

    enough
    > > > people decide to get into outsourcing, you'll see a significant drop

    in
    > > > quality delivered (like with certifications!) as everyone tries to

    find
    > > the
    > > > short cuts to making cash. As such, certain companies will learn that

    > work
    > > > gets done at home, where you can monitor the operation. Others will

    > decide
    > > > that they are satisfied with outsourced work. Trends develop, but

    > nothing
    > > is
    > > > ever concrete in business, not even where contracts and legal

    agreements
    > > are
    > > > concerned!
    > > >
    > > > Cheers,
    > > > Mark
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "J" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:...
    > > > > This is very disturbing... South Africa and the Philippines
    > > > > are competing as well.
    > > > >
    > > > > India wins lion's share of outsourcing
    > > > > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2137254,00.html
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Outsourcing may doom future IT careers
    > > > > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030709/152/e3xvl.html
    > > > > Granted, this is Australia they're talking about, but
    > > > > still... it sounds familiar.
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Mark, Jul 10, 2003
    #12
  13. Mark

    Mark Guest

    Exactly Gary. Serious American organisations wont offshore, and if they do,
    they wont accept a poor standard of quality. Quality of product is key here,
    because if you deliver rubbish, who'd buy it? And if no one is buying your
    product, where is your revenue? While some companies are sure to give it a
    go, that doesnt mean all will decide to use it eternally.

    As for the out of business argument, I state that because I have witnessed a
    very succesful European operation brought to its knees as a result of
    economic slow down and questionable management. The offshore choice is a
    turn-around strategy to save that European office. If it doesnt work, the
    people based there (granted, not all techy people, but sales execs, project
    managers, PR people etc) can all kiss their jobs goodbye. Their jobs depend
    on the success of the outsourced operation and the quality that it can
    provide.

    I know that this isnt always the case, and that there are indeed some fat
    cats trying to fill their pockets, but this can be a double edged blade.

    And honestly, if we were all running our own businesses, we'd definately all
    be looking to make as much of a profit as we could individually. This could
    be a question of Ethics, to your home country, its well-being and its
    people, but I'm not going to delve into that.

    Cheers,
    Mark


    "Gary - US" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Not to wish you bad Mark but I hope all you off shore faukers go tits up.

    I
    > know the big companies that are doing it did not make that choice to keep
    > from "going out of business" but to increase the amount of bonuses the

    board
    > of directors and other execs will be making. So that argument is

    bullshit.
    > They just want to pay dirt to some third world country like yours instead

    of
    > paying what it is worth here. I have talked to some of the folks in the
    > Indian call centers. What a cluster fauk. Could not understand shit they
    > were saying. Not what I expect when I buy products or services from an
    > American company. And the ones that continue to do it will not get my
    > business.
    >
    > Semper Fi & God Bless American
    > Gary - US
    >
    > http://www.mcngp.tk
    > The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
    >
    > "Mark" <> wrote in message
    > news:3f0c5ff7$0$...
    > > It really depends on where you are working and what you are doing. The
    > > simple stuff can always be outsourced to another country.
    > >
    > > I live in South Africa and have all my life (which is not that long at

    21)
    > > and work for a company which is involved in call centre outsourcing from
    > > Europe to South Africa and the Phillipines, in fact.
    > >
    > > You have to realise, and you probably do, that as the US has such a

    strong
    > > currency (even with all that has happened) it makes simple business
    > > operations expensive when you could be outsourcing them to another

    country
    > > while paying half or less the wages paid on home territory.
    > >
    > > So either the highly paid (by world standards) tech guy gets laid off,

    or
    > > the entire company can go bust and everyone will lose their jobs. Thats

    an
    > > extreme example, but it all boils down to the bottom line! The bottom

    line
    > > is affected by customer satisfaction, which is why a great deal of said
    > > companies fail, and which makes outsourcing a potential risk to any

    > compmany
    > > considering it.
    > >
    > > Globalisation. Everyone in IT is familiar with the term, and if you

    didnt
    > > know, this is how it works and will continue to work.
    > >
    > > But, as a company handling outsourcing it can be very challenging to
    > > survive. Think of the technical helpdesks in India that have gone out of
    > > business because none of the American or other english speaking clients
    > > understood what was being said? Its happened. And it continues to

    happen.
    > >
    > > It might seem unfair, but thats life. To survive, we all need to make

    sure
    > > that we have knowledge and skills that cant be outsourced. The industry

    > has
    > > not decided that oursourcing IS the way to go. Its new and popular and

    in
    > > demand (like certain certifications I have were at one stage). If enough
    > > people decide to get into outsourcing, you'll see a significant drop in
    > > quality delivered (like with certifications!) as everyone tries to find

    > the
    > > short cuts to making cash. As such, certain companies will learn that

    work
    > > gets done at home, where you can monitor the operation. Others will

    decide
    > > that they are satisfied with outsourced work. Trends develop, but

    nothing
    > is
    > > ever concrete in business, not even where contracts and legal agreements

    > are
    > > concerned!
    > >
    > > Cheers,
    > > Mark
    > >
    > >
    > > "J" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > This is very disturbing... South Africa and the Philippines
    > > > are competing as well.
    > > >
    > > > India wins lion's share of outsourcing
    > > > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2137254,00.html
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Outsourcing may doom future IT careers
    > > > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030709/152/e3xvl.html
    > > > Granted, this is Australia they're talking about, but
    > > > still... it sounds familiar.

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Mark, Jul 10, 2003
    #13
  14. Mark

    Mark Guest

    Keep up too date with the news, buddy. Mr Bush seems to be enjoying his stay
    here quite a bit.

    "Ray" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Globalization, outsourcing, Oh Really!
    >
    > I need meat, peas and carrots. We can produce everything that we need
    > here in our country. This is a bunch of crap and we need to look at it
    > as such. Sometimes education and modern thinking stands in the way of
    > good old common sense.
    >
    > Maybe outsourching does have some merrit - looks like South Africa needs
    > the US Millitary to solve some of it's problems that they cannot solve
    > by themselves. Of well, Yeah, we will go there with out outsourced
    > (lowest bidder)foreign build shit and loose more American lives so that
    > we can have "Globalization"
    >
    > No Thanks!
    >
    > Ray
    >
    > Mark wrote:
    > > It really depends on where you are working and what you are doing. The
    > > simple stuff can always be outsourced to another country.
    > >
    > > I live in South Africa and have all my life (which is not that long at

    21)
    > > and work for a company which is involved in call centre outsourcing from
    > > Europe to South Africa and the Phillipines, in fact.
    > >
    > > You have to realise, and you probably do, that as the US has such a

    strong
    > > currency (even with all that has happened) it makes simple business
    > > operations expensive when you could be outsourcing them to another

    country
    > > while paying half or less the wages paid on home territory.
    > >
    > > So either the highly paid (by world standards) tech guy gets laid off,

    or
    > > the entire company can go bust and everyone will lose their jobs. Thats

    an
    > > extreme example, but it all boils down to the bottom line! The bottom

    line
    > > is affected by customer satisfaction, which is why a great deal of said
    > > companies fail, and which makes outsourcing a potential risk to any

    compmany
    > > considering it.
    > >
    > > Globalisation. Everyone in IT is familiar with the term, and if you

    didnt
    > > know, this is how it works and will continue to work.
    > >
    > > But, as a company handling outsourcing it can be very challenging to
    > > survive. Think of the technical helpdesks in India that have gone out of
    > > business because none of the American or other english speaking clients
    > > understood what was being said? Its happened. And it continues to

    happen.
    > >
    > > It might seem unfair, but thats life. To survive, we all need to make

    sure
    > > that we have knowledge and skills that cant be outsourced. The industry

    has
    > > not decided that oursourcing IS the way to go. Its new and popular and

    in
    > > demand (like certain certifications I have were at one stage). If enough
    > > people decide to get into outsourcing, you'll see a significant drop in
    > > quality delivered (like with certifications!) as everyone tries to find

    the
    > > short cuts to making cash. As such, certain companies will learn that

    work
    > > gets done at home, where you can monitor the operation. Others will

    decide
    > > that they are satisfied with outsourced work. Trends develop, but

    nothing is
    > > ever concrete in business, not even where contracts and legal agreements

    are
    > > concerned!
    > >
    > > Cheers,
    > > Mark
    > >
    > >
    > > "J" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > >
    > >>This is very disturbing... South Africa and the Philippines
    > >>are competing as well.
    > >>
    > >>India wins lion's share of outsourcing
    > >>http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2137254,00.html
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>Outsourcing may doom future IT careers
    > >>http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030709/152/e3xvl.html
    > >>Granted, this is Australia they're talking about, but
    > >>still... it sounds familiar.

    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
     
    Mark, Jul 10, 2003
    #14
  15. Mark

    Mark Guest

    And trust me, the old saying remains true: You get what you pay for!

    "Mark" <> wrote in message
    news:3f0dab0a$0$...
    > Exactly Gary. Serious American organisations wont offshore, and if they

    do,
    > they wont accept a poor standard of quality. Quality of product is key

    here,
    > because if you deliver rubbish, who'd buy it? And if no one is buying your
    > product, where is your revenue? While some companies are sure to give it a
    > go, that doesnt mean all will decide to use it eternally.
    >
    > As for the out of business argument, I state that because I have witnessed

    a
    > very succesful European operation brought to its knees as a result of
    > economic slow down and questionable management. The offshore choice is a
    > turn-around strategy to save that European office. If it doesnt work, the
    > people based there (granted, not all techy people, but sales execs,

    project
    > managers, PR people etc) can all kiss their jobs goodbye. Their jobs

    depend
    > on the success of the outsourced operation and the quality that it can
    > provide.
    >
    > I know that this isnt always the case, and that there are indeed some fat
    > cats trying to fill their pockets, but this can be a double edged blade.
    >
    > And honestly, if we were all running our own businesses, we'd definately

    all
    > be looking to make as much of a profit as we could individually. This

    could
    > be a question of Ethics, to your home country, its well-being and its
    > people, but I'm not going to delve into that.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Mark
    >
    >
    > "Gary - US" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Not to wish you bad Mark but I hope all you off shore faukers go tits

    up.
    > I
    > > know the big companies that are doing it did not make that choice to

    keep
    > > from "going out of business" but to increase the amount of bonuses the

    > board
    > > of directors and other execs will be making. So that argument is

    > bullshit.
    > > They just want to pay dirt to some third world country like yours

    instead
    > of
    > > paying what it is worth here. I have talked to some of the folks in the
    > > Indian call centers. What a cluster fauk. Could not understand shit

    they
    > > were saying. Not what I expect when I buy products or services from an
    > > American company. And the ones that continue to do it will not get my
    > > business.
    > >
    > > Semper Fi & God Bless American
    > > Gary - US
    > >
    > > http://www.mcngp.tk
    > > The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
    > >
    > > "Mark" <> wrote in message
    > > news:3f0c5ff7$0$...
    > > > It really depends on where you are working and what you are doing. The
    > > > simple stuff can always be outsourced to another country.
    > > >
    > > > I live in South Africa and have all my life (which is not that long at

    > 21)
    > > > and work for a company which is involved in call centre outsourcing

    from
    > > > Europe to South Africa and the Phillipines, in fact.
    > > >
    > > > You have to realise, and you probably do, that as the US has such a

    > strong
    > > > currency (even with all that has happened) it makes simple business
    > > > operations expensive when you could be outsourcing them to another

    > country
    > > > while paying half or less the wages paid on home territory.
    > > >
    > > > So either the highly paid (by world standards) tech guy gets laid off,

    > or
    > > > the entire company can go bust and everyone will lose their jobs.

    Thats
    > an
    > > > extreme example, but it all boils down to the bottom line! The bottom

    > line
    > > > is affected by customer satisfaction, which is why a great deal of

    said
    > > > companies fail, and which makes outsourcing a potential risk to any

    > > compmany
    > > > considering it.
    > > >
    > > > Globalisation. Everyone in IT is familiar with the term, and if you

    > didnt
    > > > know, this is how it works and will continue to work.
    > > >
    > > > But, as a company handling outsourcing it can be very challenging to
    > > > survive. Think of the technical helpdesks in India that have gone out

    of
    > > > business because none of the American or other english speaking

    clients
    > > > understood what was being said? Its happened. And it continues to

    > happen.
    > > >
    > > > It might seem unfair, but thats life. To survive, we all need to make

    > sure
    > > > that we have knowledge and skills that cant be outsourced. The

    industry
    > > has
    > > > not decided that oursourcing IS the way to go. Its new and popular and

    > in
    > > > demand (like certain certifications I have were at one stage). If

    enough
    > > > people decide to get into outsourcing, you'll see a significant drop

    in
    > > > quality delivered (like with certifications!) as everyone tries to

    find
    > > the
    > > > short cuts to making cash. As such, certain companies will learn that

    > work
    > > > gets done at home, where you can monitor the operation. Others will

    > decide
    > > > that they are satisfied with outsourced work. Trends develop, but

    > nothing
    > > is
    > > > ever concrete in business, not even where contracts and legal

    agreements
    > > are
    > > > concerned!
    > > >
    > > > Cheers,
    > > > Mark
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "J" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:...
    > > > > This is very disturbing... South Africa and the Philippines
    > > > > are competing as well.
    > > > >
    > > > > India wins lion's share of outsourcing
    > > > > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2137254,00.html
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Outsourcing may doom future IT careers
    > > > > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030709/152/e3xvl.html
    > > > > Granted, this is Australia they're talking about, but
    > > > > still... it sounds familiar.
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Mark, Jul 10, 2003
    #15
  16. Mark

    JaR Guest

    billyw wrote in message ...
    >agreed, i remember during the early 90's people saying similiar about

    people
    >buying cars etc. but then we forgot about it for a while during the mid

    late
    >90's..
    >Also the way companies report is a joke.. how the hell can you make or

    break
    >a company, which should be a long term venture, in 3 months. the quarterly
    >reporting has too much store put in it
    >


    Quarterly reporting will be a fact of corporate life as long as executive
    bonuses, etc. are tied to the stock market. Corporate health is determined
    by it's stock performance. I see fewer and fewer companies that are as
    concerned with the actual day to day sales, etc. and focus on Wall St. Look
    at HP, [0] for example. They could give a damn about their actual customer's
    satisfaction with their products, as long as their quarterly earnings show
    an increase and Carly [1] get's another million $$$ bonus.

    Outsourcing is not a way of staying alive, in most cases ,it's a way of
    cutting huge chunks from that quartely expense report and turning it into
    profit.

    [0] If I ever buy another HP product, someone please shoot me.

    [1] I actually wasted bandwidth sending an e-mail to her after her
    tech-support circus sent me (fed ex) an empty box one time (another story)
    and got an e-mail back from some 'droid instructing me to call him on POTS,
    *long distance*, to discuss my concern.
     
    JaR, Jul 10, 2003
    #16
  17. Mark

    billyw Guest

    thats the thing with quarterly reporting.
    it's basically where a pile of oppertunists try and screw the working droid
    out of a job in the hope that they can then finance a new section to their
    house.
    the q reports maximise the potential for corporate greed and minimise
    strategic planning.
    Hence you dont know if your in a job from one day to the next

    "JaR" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > billyw wrote in message ...
    > >agreed, i remember during the early 90's people saying similiar about

    > people
    > >buying cars etc. but then we forgot about it for a while during the mid

    > late
    > >90's..
    > >Also the way companies report is a joke.. how the hell can you make or

    > break
    > >a company, which should be a long term venture, in 3 months. the

    quarterly
    > >reporting has too much store put in it
    > >

    >
    > Quarterly reporting will be a fact of corporate life as long as executive
    > bonuses, etc. are tied to the stock market. Corporate health is determined
    > by it's stock performance. I see fewer and fewer companies that are as
    > concerned with the actual day to day sales, etc. and focus on Wall St.

    Look
    > at HP, [0] for example. They could give a damn about their actual

    customer's
    > satisfaction with their products, as long as their quarterly earnings show
    > an increase and Carly [1] get's another million $$$ bonus.
    >
    > Outsourcing is not a way of staying alive, in most cases ,it's a way of
    > cutting huge chunks from that quartely expense report and turning it into
    > profit.
    >
    > [0] If I ever buy another HP product, someone please shoot me.
    >
    > [1] I actually wasted bandwidth sending an e-mail to her after her
    > tech-support circus sent me (fed ex) an empty box one time (another story)
    > and got an e-mail back from some 'droid instructing me to call him on

    POTS,
    > *long distance*, to discuss my concern.
    >
    >
     
    billyw, Jul 10, 2003
    #17
  18. Mark

    Smoi Guest

    "Think of the technical helpdesks in India that have gone out of
    business because none of the American or other English speaking clients
    understood what was being said? Its happened."

    hmmm wonder how many r they?? i'm very curious to know!! i have been reading
    many *stories* and its about time i post my view

    From a business perspective, there is a need for many large corporations to
    reduce costs and be more competitive in their businesses. Outsourcing,
    particularly to India, provides them a huge opportunity to do this. i'm not
    a business fella.. so I don't know much about these CEO's filling their
    pockets by outsourcing!

    Gary, i have no trouble understanding Indians compared to other Asian
    countries.. Not too long ago, India had some very good IT service
    credentials which in turn made them the first in the list to choose when it
    comes to IT-related outsourcing

    For any economic growth to occur, a country needs to add more value to its
    products without increasing the cost... outsourcing to India has helped many
    US companies to achieve that! No single business man will not take any step
    that goes against the principle of market access. Trade is a two-way street.

    remember it is just short-cut to making profits! not surprisingly many
    companies have succeeded by doing so.. if this is very serious problem in
    the labour market, I don't understand why there is no legislation or bill
    that prevents these companies from outsourcing? I don't think it will help
    either.. the policymakers will then call the "ban to outsourcing" as a
    trade barrier? is the word they use?

    cheap manpower and lots of trade schools have transformed India into a
    global outsourcing superpower in the last years.. there is no doubt in
    that..

    someone here mentioned
    "The bottom line is affected by customer satisfaction" ...then I wonder why
    all those fortune 500 companies still tend to outsource? does that mean they
    don't give a crap about what their customers say? no, they still listen to
    their customer feedback.... we all know what happened to Henry Ford when he
    failed to listen to the ladies? offcourse he later re-designed is car.. but
    just think about amount of money he lost in that particular period when
    other car companies started to manufacture car that people wanted!! I don't
    think large organisation's will make that mistake again. they are very
    selective in what they outsource..

    "If enough people decide to get into outsourcing, you'll see a significant
    drop in quality delivered (like with certifications!) as everyone tries to
    find the
    short cuts to making cash. As such, certain companies will learn that work
    gets done at home, where you can monitor the operation."

    yes correct, I hope they realise that one day.. I'm waiting for that day !!


    "Gary - US" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Not to wish you bad Mark but I hope all you off shore faukers go tits up.

    I
    > know the big companies that are doing it did not make that choice to keep
    > from "going out of business" but to increase the amount of bonuses the

    board
    > of directors and other execs will be making. So that argument is

    bullshit.
    > They just want to pay dirt to some third world country like yours instead

    of
    > paying what it is worth here. I have talked to some of the folks in the
    > Indian call centers. What a cluster fauk. Could not understand shit they
    > were saying. Not what I expect when I buy products or services from an
    > American company. And the ones that continue to do it will not get my
    > business.
    >
    > Semper Fi & God Bless American
    > Gary - US
    >
    > http://www.mcngp.tk
    > The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
    >
    > "Mark" <> wrote in message
    > news:3f0c5ff7$0$...
    > > It really depends on where you are working and what you are doing. The
    > > simple stuff can always be outsourced to another country.
    > >
    > > I live in South Africa and have all my life (which is not that long at

    21)
    > > and work for a company which is involved in call centre outsourcing from
    > > Europe to South Africa and the Phillipines, in fact.
    > >
    > > You have to realise, and you probably do, that as the US has such a

    strong
    > > currency (even with all that has happened) it makes simple business
    > > operations expensive when you could be outsourcing them to another

    country
    > > while paying half or less the wages paid on home territory.
    > >
    > > So either the highly paid (by world standards) tech guy gets laid off,

    or
    > > the entire company can go bust and everyone will lose their jobs. Thats

    an
    > > extreme example, but it all boils down to the bottom line! The bottom

    line
    > > is affected by customer satisfaction, which is why a great deal of said
    > > companies fail, and which makes outsourcing a potential risk to any

    > compmany
    > > considering it.
    > >
    > > Globalisation. Everyone in IT is familiar with the term, and if you

    didnt
    > > know, this is how it works and will continue to work.
    > >
    > > But, as a company handling outsourcing it can be very challenging to
    > > survive. Think of the technical helpdesks in India that have gone out of
    > > business because none of the American or other english speaking clients
    > > understood what was being said? Its happened. And it continues to

    happen.
    > >
    > > It might seem unfair, but thats life. To survive, we all need to make

    sure
    > > that we have knowledge and skills that cant be outsourced. The industry

    > has
    > > not decided that oursourcing IS the way to go. Its new and popular and

    in
    > > demand (like certain certifications I have were at one stage). If enough
    > > people decide to get into outsourcing, you'll see a significant drop in
    > > quality delivered (like with certifications!) as everyone tries to find

    > the
    > > short cuts to making cash. As such, certain companies will learn that

    work
    > > gets done at home, where you can monitor the operation. Others will

    decide
    > > that they are satisfied with outsourced work. Trends develop, but

    nothing
    > is
    > > ever concrete in business, not even where contracts and legal agreements

    > are
    > > concerned!
    > >
    > > Cheers,
    > > Mark
    > >
    > >
    > > "J" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > This is very disturbing... South Africa and the Philippines
    > > > are competing as well.
    > > >
    > > > India wins lion's share of outsourcing
    > > > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2137254,00.html
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Outsourcing may doom future IT careers
    > > > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030709/152/e3xvl.html
    > > > Granted, this is Australia they're talking about, but
    > > > still... it sounds familiar.

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Smoi, Jul 11, 2003
    #18
  19. Mark

    JaR Guest

    Smoi wrote in message <1057882255.652308@ns2.1earth.net>...

    In line....

    >"Think of the technical helpdesks in India that have gone out of
    >business because none of the American or other English speaking clients
    >understood what was being said? Its happened."
    >


    The ones I've had the misfortune to try to talk to in the last couple of
    years must be the exception, then. They are very hard to understand as a
    rule, and are *still* in business


    >
    >From a business perspective, there is a need for many large corporations to
    >reduce costs and be more competitive in their businesses. Outsourcing,
    >particularly to India, provides them a huge opportunity to do this. i'm not
    >a business fella.. so I don't know much about these CEO's filling their
    >pockets by outsourcing!


    Read the papers, watch the business news. Look at the annual bonuses that
    the executives of some of the companies that have the highest rates of
    layoffs. (Geez, we had to lay off 5000 people in the US and Europe, good job
    Mr. CEO, have a mil or two.)

    >
    >For any economic growth to occur, a country needs to add more value to its
    >products without increasing the cost...


    *confused* What economic growth??? we are sliding downhill in a bobsled.

    outsourcing to India has helped many
    >US companies to achieve that! No single business man will not take any step
    >that goes against the principle of market access. Trade is a two-way

    street.
    >


    Ah! The economic growth of the company!

    >remember it is just short-cut to making profits!


    Right, exactly my point, a short cut as opposed to long term health.

    not surprisingly many
    >companies have succeeded by doing so.. if this is very serious problem in
    >the labour market, I don't understand why there is no legislation or bill
    >that prevents these companies from outsourcing? I don't think it will help
    >either.. the policymakers will then call the "ban to outsourcing" as a
    >trade barrier? is the word they use?


    Right again, the legislators are not going to alienate their largest cash
    contributors.

    >

    <Snip>
    >
    >someone here mentioned
    >"The bottom line is affected by customer satisfaction" ...then I wonder why
    >all those fortune 500 companies still tend to outsource? does that mean

    they
    >don't give a crap about what their customers say?


    Yes, it does. Most large corporations do not give a crap about their
    customer/end users. They give mighty lip servive to the fact that they do,
    but still give shoddy service and product when it benefits the bottom line
    as opposed to building *long-term* trust.

    no, they still listen to
    >their customer feedback.... we all know what happened to Henry Ford when he
    >failed to listen to the ladies? offcourse he later re-designed is car.. but
    >just think about amount of money he lost in that particular period when
    >other car companies started to manufacture car that people wanted!! I

    don't
    >think large organisation's will make that mistake again. they are very
    >selective in what they outsource..


    Yet they keep doing it over and over. I could cite any number of instances
    in the auto industry, (which I work in), the computer industry, banking,
    investments, shall I go on?

    >
    >"If enough people decide to get into outsourcing, you'll see a significant
    >drop in quality delivered (like with certifications!) as everyone tries to
    >find the
    >short cuts to making cash.


    And we have, indeed seen this.

    As such, certain companies will learn that work
    >gets done at home, where you can monitor the operation."
    >


    One can only hope before it's too late.


    >yes correct, I hope they realise that one day.. I'm waiting for that day !!
    >
    >

    Amen!

    J.R. Jones MCSA A+ Net+ MCNGP #22
    http://www.mcngp.tk
    The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
     
    JaR, Jul 11, 2003
    #19
  20. Mark

    Ray Guest

    Maybe if you read everything that was posted it will make more sense to
    you! Just go back and read everything posted. Or better yet, quit
    worring about what the Global Community is doing and fix the problems in
    your own country instead of criticizing the US all of the time and
    expecting our nation to carry your burdins as well.

    Ray

    billyw wrote:
    > coherent sentences might be something you look into.
    > remember, stories have a beginning a middle and an end
    >
    > "Ray" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>Globalization, outsourcing, Oh Really!
    >>
    >>I need meat, peas and carrots. We can produce everything that we need
    >>here in our country. This is a bunch of crap and we need to look at it
    >>as such. Sometimes education and modern thinking stands in the way of
    >>good old common sense.
    >>
    >>Maybe outsourching does have some merrit - looks like South Africa needs
    >>the US Millitary to solve some of it's problems that they cannot solve
    >>by themselves. Of well, Yeah, we will go there with out outsourced
    >>(lowest bidder)foreign build shit and loose more American lives so that
    >>we can have "Globalization"
    >>
    >>No Thanks!
    >>
    >>Ray
    >>
    >>Mark wrote:
    >>
    >>>It really depends on where you are working and what you are doing. The
    >>>simple stuff can always be outsourced to another country.
    >>>
    >>>I live in South Africa and have all my life (which is not that long at

    >>

    > 21)
    >
    >>>and work for a company which is involved in call centre outsourcing from
    >>>Europe to South Africa and the Phillipines, in fact.
    >>>
    >>>You have to realise, and you probably do, that as the US has such a

    >>

    > strong
    >
    >>>currency (even with all that has happened) it makes simple business
    >>>operations expensive when you could be outsourcing them to another

    >>

    > country
    >
    >>>while paying half or less the wages paid on home territory.
    >>>
    >>>So either the highly paid (by world standards) tech guy gets laid off,

    >>

    > or
    >
    >>>the entire company can go bust and everyone will lose their jobs. Thats

    >>

    > an
    >
    >>>extreme example, but it all boils down to the bottom line! The bottom

    >>

    > line
    >
    >>>is affected by customer satisfaction, which is why a great deal of said
    >>>companies fail, and which makes outsourcing a potential risk to any

    >>

    > compmany
    >
    >>>considering it.
    >>>
    >>>Globalisation. Everyone in IT is familiar with the term, and if you

    >>

    > didnt
    >
    >>>know, this is how it works and will continue to work.
    >>>
    >>>But, as a company handling outsourcing it can be very challenging to
    >>>survive. Think of the technical helpdesks in India that have gone out of
    >>>business because none of the American or other english speaking clients
    >>>understood what was being said? Its happened. And it continues to

    >>

    > happen.
    >
    >>>It might seem unfair, but thats life. To survive, we all need to make

    >>

    > sure
    >
    >>>that we have knowledge and skills that cant be outsourced. The industry

    >>

    > has
    >
    >>>not decided that oursourcing IS the way to go. Its new and popular and

    >>

    > in
    >
    >>>demand (like certain certifications I have were at one stage). If enough
    >>>people decide to get into outsourcing, you'll see a significant drop in
    >>>quality delivered (like with certifications!) as everyone tries to find

    >>

    > the
    >
    >>>short cuts to making cash. As such, certain companies will learn that

    >>

    > work
    >
    >>>gets done at home, where you can monitor the operation. Others will

    >>

    > decide
    >
    >>>that they are satisfied with outsourced work. Trends develop, but

    >>

    > nothing is
    >
    >>>ever concrete in business, not even where contracts and legal agreements

    >>

    > are
    >
    >>>concerned!
    >>>
    >>>Cheers,
    >>>Mark
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>"J" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>This is very disturbing... South Africa and the Philippines
    >>>>are competing as well.
    >>>>
    >>>>India wins lion's share of outsourcing
    >>>>http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2137254,00.html
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Outsourcing may doom future IT careers
    >>>>http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030709/152/e3xvl.html
    >>>>Granted, this is Australia they're talking about, but
    >>>>still... it sounds familiar.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >
    >
     
    Ray, Jul 11, 2003
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Shane
    Replies:
    6
    Views:
    530
    Consultant
    Sep 19, 2003
  2. Slarty Bartfast

    Outsourcing

    Slarty Bartfast, Oct 8, 2003, in forum: MCSE
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    512
  3. Consultant

    OT outsourcing is good, really

    Consultant, Apr 1, 2004, in forum: MCSE
    Replies:
    15
    Views:
    666
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere
    Apr 1, 2004
  4. Boy is this depressing

    , Jul 4, 2003, in forum: DVD Video
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    473
    Tarkus
    Jul 4, 2003
  5. My View
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    377
    mrrogers
    Nov 13, 2004
Loading...

Share This Page