Re: New computer buying anxiety ( angst?)

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by catchme, Apr 20, 2008.

  1. catchme

    catchme Guest

    Sarah Houston wrote:
    > I have this 6 or 7 year old box with an AMD XP 1.6 ( actually 1.4 GHz )
    > and I think a 266 Mhz bus, 512 megs RAM and a 40 GB drive ( two
    > actually, one on a plug port in front for backup ), and USB1, running XP
    > Home Edition with all the updates.
    >
    > As I mentioned here recently, it looks like the RAM is topped out now.
    > Using 85-90% on average, of it, accoring to the little Freemeter I put
    > in the tray the other day.
    >
    > AND it doesn't have a DVD at all, just CDROM burner, so I can't even
    > upgrade from Streets & Trips 2006 ( which was the last one on CDROM )
    > for my work routing.
    >
    > I also want to get into a DVD camcorder and be able to do video editing
    > and rerecording with the computer, so I need much bigger drives.
    >
    > And don't they have really small plug in hard drives now ( what do they
    > call them? Thumb drives or something? ), so you can use those for
    > backups and just put them in a safe deposit box or something?
    >
    > I use it for all my work anyway, so replacing it can at least be a
    > business expense.
    >
    > But I'm feeling some anxiety about how to get my entire computing life
    > since 1987, which is on this computer, everything I've ever written and
    > my whole small business, into a new one.
    >
    > I see that Dell is selling some kinds of transfer cables with their new
    > systems, for a few extra bucks. Is that a way of transferring everything
    > from old box to new?
    >
    > I probably want to get the new one with Vista, though I haven't even
    > seen it yet, right?
    >
    > Then reinstall all my software and just transfer the data files somehow?
    >
    > I mean if the new system is Vista, I can't just dump the old hard drive
    > onto a new bigger one, can I?
    >
    >

    i would read up on the trade journals about vista, before you made up
    your mind getting it.
    not that you have any choice over the matter- vista is automatically
    installed on almost all "complete" systems (you might still find a shop
    who will assemble a computer for you according to your specs, and
    install xp), and linux might require developing a whole new skill set
    (like using command line to hack into your gui), but theres still mac....

    --
    To the States or any one of them, or any city of the States,
    Resist much, obey little,
    Once unquestioning obedience, once fully enslaved,
    Once fully enslaved, no nation, state, city of this earth,
    ever after-ward resumes its liberty.

    -Walt Whitman, 1860
    catchme, Apr 20, 2008
    #1
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  2. catchme

    thanatoid Guest

    Mitch <> wrote in
    news:250420081637303281%:

    Top-Posted Intro:
    This has beaten to death more times than Christians, Muslims,
    etc. have raised sticks or swords against "infidels" in all
    recorded history, but anyway... It's a slow night and I'm trying
    to forget the particularly unpleasant day I had to endure.

    > In article
    > <Xns9A8B24BC590SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142>, Sarah
    > Houston <> wrote:
    >
    >> Yes, with MAC I could pay double what a Win PC would cost
    >> me, and then have to buy all new software for it. What a
    >> thrill.

    >
    > Yes; go out and buy a complete new system with everything.
    > Everyone knows Microsoft makes he best of everything, and
    > everyone surely must be happy with whatever their hot new
    > OS is.


    I understand "where you're coming from", but even people who
    consciously choose Windows know that this statement is not true.
    And neither is it true for Macs. BTW, you DO know MS owns a fair
    amount of Apple stock (some claim it saved them from bankruptcy
    once) and cooperates with them extensively?

    > And you will surely save money, even though you'll
    > have to upgrade parts routinely


    Why? This machine is 10½ yrs old and the only upgrades were new
    hard drives (I had a bad streak of HD mortality for a couple of
    years a while back) and a CD-R drive (it came with just a
    player). And are you saying NO Mac has EVER had a part
    malfunction? The iMacs' keyboards were pretty (as all Mac stuff
    is), but laughably flimsy. And what's with the ONE mouse button?
    We have 5 fingers! [Not to mention it was all stolen from Xerox
    PARC so all the whining about how Windows stole the GUI from
    Apple is the definition of hypocrisy.]

    > and will spend more on the
    > OS and software than on another machine.


    Ever heard of freeware? Most programs I use are freeware and
    they are better than $200-$800 Adobe or MS ripoffs - for Windows
    OR for the Mac. And Mac software is /probably/ more expensive
    since there is a LOT less of it sold and it is made by a
    monopoly, as is the hardware - I trust we will not enter into an
    argument about Mac HARDWARE being CHEAPER.

    (I don't /know/ this, but I assume. I use mostly older programs
    and freeware and I only had a Mac for a couple of months 10
    years ago. I never bought any software beyond the OS that came
    on it (7.5 I think), found out it crashed just like Windows did,
    found the interface, single button mouse and the command key
    most irritating, and the inability to get inside the OS very
    frustrating, so I got rid of it.)

    AFAIK, a brand new shrinkwrapped latest version of a MAC OS
    costs about the same as the top Vista version - of course anyone
    who buys Vista should be institutionalized, but that is not the
    argument here.

    > Yep, I'm pretty sure that everyone is using Vista with all
    > features on that 486 chip that Microsoft said would work
    > fine.


    Huh? Intel and MS made a formerly-secret deal to allow Intel to
    sell vast amounts of overstocked motherboards and chipsets which
    were NOT capable of fully supporting Vista, which accounts for a
    large part of the nightmare stories, but I do not believe ANYONE
    has ever said that Vista or even XP will run on a 486 chip.

    > Very few people ever upgrade RAM in their Windows
    > boxes; they're all using 256 or 512 MB.


    Computers are no longer computers, they have become
    entertainment appliances. Most people are sheep and believe what
    they are told by salespeople and buy what they are told to buy.
    99% of everything they hear are lies or at best halftruths.

    256MB is more than enough to run all pre-XP Windows and 512MB is
    enough to run XP. /If/ you know how to configure your machine so
    70% of your RAM isn't constantly used by assorted MS "helpshit"
    etc.

    > Video cards are
    > immaterial; you can get by with a regular 2 MB card from
    > years ago.


    Most people, unless they are demented gamers, doing professional
    pre-press or video work in 1600x2400 (or something) resolution,
    or like to work on 5Kx8K pixel TIFFs, can get by with 2MBs of
    video just fine.

    > No one has to get a bigger drive for those
    > machines; that 40 GB will be fine.


    People who get the "Just-released! Groovier than ever! You will
    NEVER go bald if you use it and you will type 50 times faster!"
    30 MB version of a program which now runs 5 times slower and is
    buggier than the 5-year old version (which was 2 MB and did
    everything anyone could ask for) are morons. Unfortunately, that
    means most consumers - Mac OR Windows.

    People who use well-written compact programs and who are NOT
    editing feature films nor like to store tens of thousands of
    hours of music on their (failure-prone) HD's (AOT CD-R's or DVD-
    R's) do NOT need 500GB drives. Just like no home user /needs/ a
    3GHz dual core processor. But because they have money and the
    magazines and salespeople tell them it's a must-have, they get
    them. To send pictures of their kids to their uncles via
    webmail.

    FWIW, this machine has an 8.4 GB drive with 7 partitions, my
    other machine is a 2GHz with 256MB of RAM and a 40GB drive with
    16 partitions, and I need nothing else. And ANY of the just-
    mentioned partitions defrag in less than a minute each. How long
    did it take YOU to defrag YOUR (I am guessing, single) partition
    last time you tried? (Sorry, I just realized I don't know
    anything about Mac partitions or defragging, or if it is even
    necessary. I guess I am talking to the "is it out yet?" Windows
    crowd here.)

    > We would only have to buy software if we bought Mac, too.


    For the vast majority of users, what comes included with Windows
    as well as what comes included with the Mac OS is absolutely
    enough. Regrettably, most people are so clueless they don't even
    KNOW there are perfectly adequate image and word processors
    included with the OS. The fact EVERYONE who has a computer -
    Windows OR Mac - thinks s/he MUST have MS Office as well is the
    most ridiculous thing in the entire history of the human race
    and a testimony to the evil genius of MS marketers. I am
    absolutely convinced there is not ONE person in the world who is
    both aware of and /able to use/ ***EVERY*** feature of the
    /entire/ MS Office Professional suite, i.e. all 5 (or 6, I
    forget) programs. In fact I doubt there are many who know
    EVERYTHING about Word, not to mention most people use it to do
    what they could do in Notepad (if they knew of its existence)
    which is where my argument started.

    > Certainly no one using Windows has to pay for anything, but
    > if you go Mac you'll certainly end up buying huge amounts
    > of software, regularly.


    Let's not get silly, see above. Still, if you want to do
    professional music or video editing, you will probably have to
    get a professional program whatever platform you use, although
    Apple's Garage Band sounds pretty great and Windows apparently
    now includes a basic "movie" editor.

    > Windows hasn't got any hidden
    > costs, either. It always works, no one ever has any down
    > time, device conflicts are almost unheard-of, and crashes
    > and freezes weren't made infamous by Windows. You'll never
    > think of drivers, updating, or running utilities. You can
    > always assume you're safe from all kinds of malware -- no
    > one has ever had a virus or spyware on anything Windows.


    I have been running Windows for over 15 years, and I have gotten
    ONE virus ever - in an email from an idiot friend. It couldn't
    /do/ anything because my machine is tweaked for total safety,
    but it was still a PITA to get rid of the files. And I am
    nowhere near an expert.

    If Mac had the 90%+ market share, there would be as many viruses
    for Macs as there are now for Windows. And there ARE viruses for
    Macs.

    As for things breaking, EVERYTHING breaks, sooner or later.
    Especially anything made in the last 25 years. I have a compact
    folding (from 15" to 5 feet) German camera tripod from the
    1930's and it will last (and work perfectly) FOREVER. Those days
    are OVER. "Made in China".

    As for "designed for the technologically-impaired" yes, Macs are
    somewhat simpler to use (but the difference has decreased
    /greatly/ in the last 15 years). But that is not proof of
    superiority, see below. And Macs DO crash. Everything does.
    Cars, dishes, and computers of ANY make.

    > That must be the other guys. It's a good thing we all saved
    > so much money on hardware and software. Because certainly
    > it's Windows that is known for great use in image editing,
    > publishing, movie/video/media production, and music.


    Cool Edit Pro, at one time considered by many to be THE best
    multitrack audio editor for any platform, was originally only
    available for Windows. After Adobe "disappeared" Syntrillium and
    renamed the program Audition, I imagine they also made a Mac
    version. There were programs for Macs only and there were
    programs for Windows only 10-15 years ago. With some exceptions
    (like Garage Band) there is NO practical difference anymore,
    except for the fact that many creative people lack the brain
    extensions needed to cope with technology (like the formerly
    less "simpleton-oriented" Windows OS) and for that reason always
    preferred Macs which never presented them with the utterly
    baffling and unfathomable command prompt but also never gave
    them the option to seriously tweak their machine to their
    liking.

    A 5 year child could probably do almost anything on a Mac, but I
    do not believe that alone constitutes a proof of superiority.
    Not to mention 5 year old children should be outside playing in
    the fresh air, while there is still some around.




    --
    Of course, it is no easy matter to be polite; in so far, I mean,
    as it requires us to show great respect for everybody, whereas
    most people deserve none at all; and again in so far as it
    demands that we should feign the most lively interest in people,
    when we must be very glad that we have nothing to do with them.

    - Arthur Schopenhauer
    thanatoid, Apr 26, 2008
    #2
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  3. catchme

    catchme Guest

    thanatoid wrote:
    > Mitch <> wrote in
    > news:250420081637303281%:
    >
    > Top-Posted Intro:
    > This has beaten to death more times than Christians, Muslims,
    > etc. have raised sticks or swords against "infidels" in all
    > recorded history, but anyway... It's a slow night and I'm trying
    > to forget the particularly unpleasant day I had to endure.
    >
    >> In article
    >> <Xns9A8B24BC590SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142>, Sarah
    >> Houston <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Yes, with MAC I could pay double what a Win PC would cost
    >>> me, and then have to buy all new software for it. What a
    >>> thrill.

    >> Yes; go out and buy a complete new system with everything.
    >> Everyone knows Microsoft makes he best of everything, and
    >> everyone surely must be happy with whatever their hot new
    >> OS is.

    >
    > I understand "where you're coming from", but even people who
    > consciously choose Windows know that this statement is not true.
    > And neither is it true for Macs. BTW, you DO know MS owns a fair
    > amount of Apple stock (some claim it saved them from bankruptcy
    > once) and cooperates with them extensively?
    >


    court ordered, over some lawsuit where microsoft engaged in unfair
    business practices.
    there was also a stipulation that apple and microsoft had to share
    technology for some years, which DID lead to a few shared standards.

    >> And you will surely save money, even though you'll
    >> have to upgrade parts routinely

    >
    > Why? This machine is 10? yrs old and the only upgrades were new
    > hard drives (I had a bad streak of HD mortality for a couple of
    > years a while back) and a CD-R drive (it came with just a
    > player). And are you saying NO Mac has EVER had a part
    > malfunction? The iMacs' keyboards were pretty (as all Mac stuff
    > is), but laughably flimsy. And what's with the ONE mouse button?
    > We have 5 fingers! [Not to mention it was all stolen from Xerox
    > PARC so all the whining about how Windows stole the GUI from
    > Apple is the definition of hypocrisy.]


    Jobs borrowed the IDEA from Xerox, whereas some time after Gates decided
    to stop writing software for Apple they still had an agreeement where
    Gates could still pop in anytime.
    Gates took advantage of this trust (several Anti-trust lawsuits
    followed) to steal several lines of code (i.e. plagiarism) which were
    used not to write software FOR mac, but rather to implement in a
    competing o/s.
    but yes it makes the whole thing bizarre when one recounts that Jobs,
    Woz. and Gates were all involved in various mischief hacking phone
    companies, getting involved with Iranian terrorists, etc.
    and we thought techno-geeks were boring...?
    >
    >> and will spend more on the
    >> OS and software than on another machine.

    >
    > Ever heard of freeware? Most programs I use are freeware and
    > they are better than $200-$800 Adobe or MS ripoffs - for Windows
    > OR for the Mac. And Mac software is /probably/ more expensive
    > since there is a LOT less of it sold and it is made by a
    > monopoly, as is the hardware - I trust we will not enter into an
    > argument about Mac HARDWARE being CHEAPER.


    thankfully there is a large TRUSTED number of people making free or
    shareware for mac. and linux- whereas one may find some software for
    windows, much tend to be extremely buggy, even virus ridden....
    mac hardware is certainly not cheaper, but definitely well-chosen to run
    cohesively.
    the main issue i've had with macs is that they usually ship with
    insufficient RAM, going by last year's requirements rather than looking
    forward to what next year's software (i.e. the next o/s/ release) would
    require.
    >
    > (I don't /know/ this, but I assume. I use mostly older programs
    > and freeware and I only had a Mac for a couple of months 10
    > years ago. I never bought any software beyond the OS that came
    > on it (7.5 I think), found out it crashed just like Windows did,
    > found the interface, single button mouse and the command key
    > most irritating, and the inability to get inside the OS very
    > frustrating, so I got rid of it.)


    o/s 7.5.x was the albatross that nearly killed apple namely that the o/s
    had a lot of issues, the first being that there were so many different
    versions of 7.5, many which only ran on certain computers sold to
    certain retailers (i.e. certain performas that were only sold to Sears
    or FutureShop).
    some required patch updates to run properly, apparently they mismatched
    the ROM with the o/s version upon shipping
    further more was the issue of extension conflicts, etc. (many mac users
    never bothered to use their extension manager which was designed to fix
    this problem) which were cleaned up in o/s 7.6 and 8, and nearly
    disappeared completely in 8.1.
    7.6 through 8.1 had extension faults only where third party software
    (i.e. shareware) were concerned, where their application extensions
    would sometimes conflict with certain others.
    one infamous app.- conflict catcher- which purpose was to CATCH the
    conflicts, installed extensions which CAUSED conflicts with the system!
    np- if one used the trial version, simply uninstall upon restart
    (holding down the shift key to disable extensions)
    this was cleaned up on the free update to 7.6 for the machines running
    68030 processors (apparently the 020's had to rely on the 7.5.5) and
    above, or buy into o/s 8 for 68040 to first generation powermacs (601
    and 603 processor) and the o/s 8 update (8.1) for powerPC running 601,
    603 or 604 processors.
    >
    > A 5 year child could probably do almost anything on a Mac, but I
    > do not believe that alone constitutes a proof of superiority.
    > Not to mention 5 year old children should be outside playing in
    > the fresh air, while there is still some around.
    >


    if an o/s is not easy to use, does not follow elegant design principles,
    especially after over thirty years experience, then there is something
    wrong.
    all of our electonics have microprocessors in them, running an embedded
    o/s in its ROM.
    if the majority of these electronics had interfaces that we could not
    understand, then we would have poor engineers designing the hardware and
    software to cohesively communicate their functions to the hands of
    consumers.




    --
    To the States or any one of them, or any city of the States,
    Resist much, obey little,
    Once unquestioning obedience, once fully enslaved,
    Once fully enslaved, no nation, state, city of this earth,
    ever after-ward resumes its liberty.

    -Walt Whitman, 1860
    catchme, Apr 26, 2008
    #3
  4. catchme

    catchme Guest

    Sarah Houston wrote:
    > Mitch <> wrote :
    >
    >> In article <Xns9A8B24BC590SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142>, Sarah
    >> Houston <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Yes, with MAC I could pay double what a Win PC would cost me, and

    > then
    >>> have to buy all new software for it. What a thrill.

    >>
    >> Oh.
    >> Here, I thought you hadn't already decided what the answer was going

    > to
    >> be. You've got your mind made up, so silly things like facts and
    >> recommendations aren't so damn important.

    >
    > Cost sure is.
    >
    >> Yes; go out and buy a complete new system with everything.
    >> Everyone knows Microsoft makes he best of everything,

    >
    > What's their market share? About 85%?
    >
    > I wonder why, being people are free to choose, and all?
    >
    >> and everyone
    >> surely must be happy with whatever their hot new OS is. And you will
    >> surely save money, even though you'll have to upgrade parts routinely
    >> and will spend more on the OS and software than on another machine.

    >
    > Well I'm just not into using DOS-like systems anymore. ( Linux? )
    >
    > With Mac, I'd have to learn computing all over again from scratch, being
    > I started with MSDOS around 1987 and moved into Win since then.
    >
    > If Vista reeks, fine, I can get the latest XP on a new machine.
    >
    > MS usually manages to fix up an OS by at least the time the next
    > generation comes out, so Vista might be fine by the time "Sierra" ( or
    > whatever they plan on calling it ) comes out.
    >
    >> Yep, I'm pretty sure that everyone is using Vista with all features on
    >> that 486 chip that Microsoft said would work fine.

    >
    > Hey nobody's perfect. :)
    >
    >> Very few people ever
    >> upgrade RAM in their Windows boxes; they're all using 256 or 512 MB.

    >
    > Times and software change. Bloat happens. :)
    > ( looking down at my 60 year old waist )
    >
    >> Video cards are immaterial; you can get by with a regular 2 MB card
    >> from years ago. No one has to get a bigger drive for those machines;
    >> that 40 GB will be fine.

    >
    > Technology marches on, get over it. Or get on with it? :)
    >
    > I remember seeing the first Macs, with their monochrome aqua screens.
    > They're color now, and require more memory than 256k, right?
    >

    well i still have my mac classic (8mhz 68000, 256k- no hard drive).
    it is running MS Word v. 1.411r2
    (Windows was just a dream to Gates then)
    it still runs, and i probably can get it hooked up to read newsgroups
    and old-school bbs via 14.4 dial-up.
    17 years old and still runs like the very day she was born, no usage
    creep, nothing.
    catchme, Apr 26, 2008
    #4
  5. Quoting Sarah Houston who, on Sat, 26 Apr 2008 02:22:23 -0500, posted:

    > Mitch <> wrote :
    >
    >> In article <Xns9A8B24BC590SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142>, Sarah
    >> Houston <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Yes, with MAC I could pay double what a Win PC would cost me, and

    > then
    >>> have to buy all new software for it. What a thrill.

    >>
    >>
    >> Oh.
    >> Here, I thought you hadn't already decided what the answer was going

    > to
    >> be. You've got your mind made up, so silly things like facts and
    >> recommendations aren't so damn important.

    >
    > Cost sure is.
    >
    >> Yes; go out and buy a complete new system with everything. Everyone
    >> knows Microsoft makes he best of everything,

    >
    > What's their market share? About 85%?
    >
    > I wonder why, being people are free to choose, and all?
    >
    >> and everyone
    >> surely must be happy with whatever their hot new OS is. And you will
    >> surely save money, even though you'll have to upgrade parts routinely
    >> and will spend more on the OS and software than on another machine.

    >
    > Well I'm just not into using DOS-like systems anymore. ( Linux? )


    And the last time you tried a linux system was............??

    <snip>

    --
    This message was sent from a
    computer which is guaranteed
    100% free of the M$ Windoze virus.
    -- 64bit Mandriva 2008.1 --
    William Poaster, Apr 27, 2008
    #5
  6. catchme

    thanatoid Guest

    Sarah Houston <> wrote in
    news:Xns9A8CE1178BE5DSntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142:

    > thanatoid <> wrote :
    >
    >>> and will spend more on the
    >>> OS and software than on another machine.

    >>
    >> Ever heard of freeware? Most programs I use are freeware
    >> and they are better than $200-$800 Adobe or MS ripoffs -
    >> for Windows OR for the Mac.

    >
    > I've been using Open Office by Sun Microsystems, as a
    > freeware alternative to MS Office Pro. For what I need, it
    > works fine.


    So would this, I bet:
    http://www.xtort.net/office-and-productivity/floppy-office/

    > Speaking of Adobe though, is there a decent freeware
    > equivalent for Acrobat 8 Pro out there? Even if it just
    > cost a lot less, but would do the same things equally as
    > well?


    Acrobat reads AND makes/edits PDF's, and one other thing IIRC.
    FoxIt reader is free, and for making PDF's I use my old
    PageMaker and Paperless Printer (which I believe has disappeared
    since I was lucky enough to grab it - it was FREE for non-profit
    home use, too, as ALL software should be).

    >> And Mac software is /probably/ more expensive
    >> since there is a LOT less of it sold and it is made by a
    >> monopoly, as is the hardware -

    >
    > It sure USED to cost more, the last time I looked at it.


    I've never looked at Mac hardware or software pricing. It is
    totally irrelevant to my life. I just look at the nice design.
    Some people claim beauty is on the inside - I am sure the inside
    of Macs is much nicer than the inside of PC's, too.

    <SNIP>

    >> 256MB is more than enough to run all pre-XP Windows and
    >> 512MB is enough to run XP. /If/ you know how to configure
    >> your machine so 70% of your RAM isn't constantly used by
    >> assorted MS "helpshit" etc.

    >
    > Do tell.
    >
    > I have Seamonkey tying up 172 megs at the moment.


    That is straight out of the Twilight Zone. See my other post for
    a longer comment.



    --
    Of course, it is no easy matter to be polite; in so far, I mean,
    as it requires us to show great respect for everybody, whereas
    most people deserve none at all; and again in so far as it
    demands that we should feign the most lively interest in people,
    when we must be very glad that we have nothing to do with them.

    - Arthur Schopenhauer
    thanatoid, Apr 27, 2008
    #6
  7. catchme

    catchme Guest

    William Poaster wrote:

    >
    > And the last time you tried a linux system was............??
    >
    > <snip>
    >


    this is linux's biggest weakness, and all linux advocates should take
    note- whether it is easy to use linux or not, the need to remember or
    input some command lines to run linux on certain hardware can be an
    intimidating factor for those who simply "use" computers without having
    to get into its nuts and bolts.
    when i think of how many people dont want to do even the barest reading
    on how their computer works but instead part with 75. and parts to some
    teenager to "fix" their pc, only for me to come around and find that the
    solution is ridiculously simple.....
    i could then *almost* call myself a pro!
    its like the beginning driver in a car who doesnt want to know HOW it
    works, only that once you turn the key it will start.
    spark plugs, gas and brake liners? leave that to the experts.
    --
    To the States or any one of them, or any city of the States,
    Resist much, obey little,
    Once unquestioning obedience, once fully enslaved,
    Once fully enslaved, no nation, state, city of this earth,
    ever after-ward resumes its liberty.

    -Walt Whitman, 1860
    catchme, Apr 27, 2008
    #7
  8. Quoting catchme who, on Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:09:31 +0000, posted:

    > William Poaster wrote:
    >
    >
    >> And the last time you tried a linux system was............??
    >>
    >> <snip>
    >>
    >>

    > this is linux's biggest weakness, and all linux advocates should take
    > note- whether it is easy to use linux or not, the need to remember or
    > input some command lines to run linux on certain hardware can be an
    > intimidating factor for those who simply "use" computers without having to
    > get into its nuts and bolts.


    And which hardware would this be?

    > when i think of how many people dont want to do even the barest reading on
    > how their computer works but instead part with 75. and parts to some
    > teenager to "fix" their pc, only for me to come around and find that the
    > solution is ridiculously simple.....
    > i could then *almost* call myself a pro! its like the beginning driver in
    > a car who doesnt want to know HOW it works, only that once you turn the
    > key it will start. spark plugs, gas and brake liners? leave that to the
    > experts.


    --
    This message was sent from a
    computer which is guaranteed
    100% free of the M$ Windoze virus.
    -- 64bit Mandriva 2008.1 --
    William Poaster, Apr 28, 2008
    #8
  9. catchme

    Mara Guest

    On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:37:16 +0100, William Poaster <64.eu>
    wrote:

    >Quoting catchme who, on Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:09:31 +0000, posted:
    >
    >> William Poaster wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> And the last time you tried a linux system was............??
    >>>
    >>> <snip>
    >>>
    >>>

    >> this is linux's biggest weakness, and all linux advocates should take
    >> note- whether it is easy to use linux or not, the need to remember or
    >> input some command lines to run linux on certain hardware can be an
    >> intimidating factor for those who simply "use" computers without having to
    >> get into its nuts and bolts.

    >
    >And which hardware would this be?


    Command line? What's that? ;)

    This is like not knowing how a lawn mower works, and then sticking your foot
    under it to see what happens - and then blaming your lawn mower for it.

    Doesn't quite work, but I see it all the time.

    --
    False friends are worst than bitter enemies.
    --Scottish proverb
    Mara, Apr 28, 2008
    #9
  10. On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:03:39 -0500, Mara wrote:

    >
    > On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:37:16 +0100, William Poaster <64.eu>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Quoting catchme who, on Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:09:31 +0000, posted:
    >>
    >>> William Poaster wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> And the last time you tried a linux system was............??
    >>>>
    >>>> <snip>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> this is linux's biggest weakness, and all linux advocates should take
    >>> note- whether it is easy to use linux or not, the need to remember or
    >>> input some command lines to run linux on certain hardware can be an
    >>> intimidating factor for those who simply "use" computers without having to
    >>> get into its nuts and bolts.

    >>
    >>And which hardware would this be?

    >
    > Command line? What's that? ;)


    I know *what* it is, but it's the "the need to remember or input some
    command lines to run linux on certain hardware" I'm puzzled about. Over
    the years, I've installed dozens of different distributions on all kinds
    of machines, & not had to bother about "command lines".

    > This is like not knowing how a lawn mower works, and then sticking your foot
    > under it to see what happens - and then blaming your lawn mower for it.
    >
    > Doesn't quite work, but I see it all the time.


    I suppose you do.

    --
    This message was sent from a
    computer which is guaranteed
    100% free of the M$ Windoze virus.
    -- 64bit Mandriva 2008.1 --
    William Poaster, Apr 28, 2008
    #10
  11. catchme

    Mara Guest

    On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:02:19 +0100, William Poaster <64.eu>
    wrote:

    >On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:03:39 -0500, Mara wrote:


    <snip>
    >> Command line? What's that? ;)

    >
    >I know *what* it is, but it's the "the need to remember or input some
    >command lines to run linux on certain hardware" I'm puzzled about. Over
    >the years, I've installed dozens of different distributions on all kinds
    >of machines, & not had to bother about "command lines".


    Same here. I've had to use it in Windows, but never in the Linux distros I run.

    >> This is like not knowing how a lawn mower works, and then sticking your foot
    >> under it to see what happens - and then blaming your lawn mower for it.
    >>
    >> Doesn't quite work, but I see it all the time.

    >
    >I suppose you do.


    Yes. Sadly, I can make broken machines work, but not broken people. :(

    --
    False friends are worse than bitter enemies.
    --Scottish proverb
    Mara, Apr 28, 2008
    #11
  12. On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:07:11 -0500, Mara wrote:

    >
    > On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:02:19 +0100, William Poaster <64.eu>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:03:39 -0500, Mara wrote:

    >
    > <snip>
    >>> Command line? What's that? ;)

    >>
    >>I know *what* it is, but it's the "the need to remember or input some
    >>command lines to run linux on certain hardware" I'm puzzled about. Over
    >>the years, I've installed dozens of different distributions on all kinds
    >>of machines, & not had to bother about "command lines".

    >
    > Same here. I've had to use it in Windows, but never in the Linux distros I run.


    Funny how some non-Linux users think they know about Linux, when they
    *don't*.

    >>> This is like not knowing how a lawn mower works, and then sticking your foot
    >>> under it to see what happens - and then blaming your lawn mower for it.
    >>>
    >>> Doesn't quite work, but I see it all the time.

    >>
    >>I suppose you do.

    >
    > Yes. Sadly, I can make broken machines work, but not broken people. :(


    No.

    --
    This message was sent from a
    computer which is guaranteed
    100% free of the M$ Windoze virus.
    -- 64bit Mandriva 2008.1 --
    William Poaster, Apr 28, 2008
    #12
  13. catchme

    Mara Guest

    On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:08:54 +0100, William Poaster <64.eu>
    wrote:

    >On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:07:11 -0500, Mara wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:02:19 +0100, William Poaster <64.eu>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:03:39 -0500, Mara wrote:

    >>
    >> <snip>
    >>>> Command line? What's that? ;)
    >>>
    >>>I know *what* it is, but it's the "the need to remember or input some
    >>>command lines to run linux on certain hardware" I'm puzzled about. Over
    >>>the years, I've installed dozens of different distributions on all kinds
    >>>of machines, & not had to bother about "command lines".

    >>
    >> Same here. I've had to use it in Windows, but never in the Linux distros I run.

    >
    >Funny how some non-Linux users think they know about Linux, when they
    >*don't*.


    Say, would you send me a list of the names of those fun Mandriva programs we
    were discussing awhile back? I want to make sure I get those installed. :)

    --
    False friends are worse than bitter enemies.
    --Scottish proverb
    Mara, Apr 28, 2008
    #13
  14. On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:15:25 -0500, Mara wrote:

    >
    > On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:08:54 +0100, William Poaster <64.eu>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:07:11 -0500, Mara wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:02:19 +0100, William Poaster <64.eu>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:03:39 -0500, Mara wrote:
    >>>
    >>> <snip>
    >>>>> Command line? What's that? ;)
    >>>>
    >>>>I know *what* it is, but it's the "the need to remember or input some
    >>>>command lines to run linux on certain hardware" I'm puzzled about. Over
    >>>>the years, I've installed dozens of different distributions on all kinds
    >>>>of machines, & not had to bother about "command lines".
    >>>
    >>> Same here. I've had to use it in Windows, but never in the Linux distros I run.

    >>
    >>Funny how some non-Linux users think they know about Linux, when they
    >>*don't*.

    >
    > Say, would you send me a list of the names of those fun Mandriva programs we
    > were discussing awhile back? I want to make sure I get those installed. :)


    Yup, ok. :)

    --
    This message was sent from a
    computer which is guaranteed
    100% free of the M$ Windoze virus.
    -- 64bit Mandriva 2008.1 --
    William Poaster, Apr 28, 2008
    #14
  15. catchme

    Mara Guest

    On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:42:44 +0100, William Poaster <64.eu>
    wrote:

    >On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:15:25 -0500, Mara wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:08:54 +0100, William Poaster <64.eu>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:07:11 -0500, Mara wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:02:19 +0100, William Poaster <64.eu>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:03:39 -0500, Mara wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> <snip>
    >>>>>> Command line? What's that? ;)
    >>>>>
    >>>>>I know *what* it is, but it's the "the need to remember or input some
    >>>>>command lines to run linux on certain hardware" I'm puzzled about. Over
    >>>>>the years, I've installed dozens of different distributions on all kinds
    >>>>>of machines, & not had to bother about "command lines".
    >>>>
    >>>> Same here. I've had to use it in Windows, but never in the Linux distros I run.
    >>>
    >>>Funny how some non-Linux users think they know about Linux, when they
    >>>*don't*.

    >>
    >> Say, would you send me a list of the names of those fun Mandriva programs we
    >> were discussing awhile back? I want to make sure I get those installed. :)

    >
    >Yup, ok. :)


    Got it. Thanks! :)

    --
    False friends are worse than bitter enemies.
    --Scottish proverb
    Mara, Apr 28, 2008
    #15
  16. On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:59:55 -0500, Mara wrote:

    >
    > On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:42:44 +0100, William Poaster <64.eu>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:15:25 -0500, Mara wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:08:54 +0100, William Poaster <64.eu>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:07:11 -0500, Mara wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:02:19 +0100, William Poaster <64.eu>
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:03:39 -0500, Mara wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> <snip>
    >>>>>>> Command line? What's that? ;)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>I know *what* it is, but it's the "the need to remember or input some
    >>>>>>command lines to run linux on certain hardware" I'm puzzled about. Over
    >>>>>>the years, I've installed dozens of different distributions on all kinds
    >>>>>>of machines, & not had to bother about "command lines".
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Same here. I've had to use it in Windows, but never in the Linux distros I run.
    >>>>
    >>>>Funny how some non-Linux users think they know about Linux, when they
    >>>>*don't*.
    >>>
    >>> Say, would you send me a list of the names of those fun Mandriva programs we
    >>> were discussing awhile back? I want to make sure I get those installed. :)

    >>
    >>Yup, ok. :)

    >
    > Got it. Thanks! :)


    YW! :)

    --
    This message was sent from a
    computer which is guaranteed
    100% free of the M$ Windoze virus.
    -- 64bit Mandriva 2008.1 --
    William Poaster, Apr 29, 2008
    #16
  17. catchme

    catchme Guest

    Mitch wrote:
    > In article <Xns9A8CE1178BE5DSntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142>, Sarah
    > Houston <> wrote:
    >
    >>> And Mac software is /probably/ more expensive
    >>> since there is a LOT less of it sold and it is made by a
    >>> monopoly, as is the hardware -

    >> It sure USED to cost more, the last time I looked at it.

    >
    > Mac SOFTWARE used to cost more?
    >
    > Where does this idea come from?
    > Mac software usually costs the same, for many reasons.
    > Assuming it will have a different price because it is assumed it will
    > sell fewer copies is odd thinking, indeed. Where do you figure the
    > price is set by copies sold, or that you can guess how many copies are
    > sold by platform?


    you can get a lot more shareware or even freeware equivalents for the
    mac o/s than for windows....not to mention commercial apps that let you
    play around with the internals of other apps to extract or replace their
    resources, and even convert file/types with a simple drag and drop.

    --
    To the States or any one of them, or any city of the States,
    Resist much, obey little,
    Once unquestioning obedience, once fully enslaved,
    Once fully enslaved, no nation, state, city of this earth,
    ever after-ward resumes its liberty.

    -Walt Whitman, 1860
    catchme, Apr 30, 2008
    #17
  18. catchme

    thanatoid Guest

    Mitch <> wrote in
    news:290420082207232219%:

    > In article
    > <Xns9A8CE1178BE5DSntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142>,
    > Sarah Houston <> wrote:
    >
    >> > And Mac software is /probably/ more expensive
    >> > since there is a LOT less of it sold and it is made by a
    >> > monopoly, as is the hardware -

    >>
    >> It sure USED to cost more, the last time I looked at it.

    >
    > Mac SOFTWARE used to cost more?


    It was not me that said that. It always HAS and always WILL cost
    more.

    > Where does this idea come from?
    > Mac software usually costs the same, for many reasons.


    I already admitted I have not paid much attention into Mac
    software prices, still I would think in many cases the Mac
    version (assuming it is a dual or multi-platform program) costs
    more. I could be wrong.

    > Assuming it will have a different price because it is
    > assumed it will sell fewer copies is odd thinking, indeed.
    > Where do you figure the price is set by copies sold,


    Software is not immune to basic laws of the capitalist
    marketplace.

    > or that you can guess how many copies are sold by platform?


    Sigh. You HAVE to be joking. If there is a very small country
    where there are 100 Chevrolets and 10 Fords and NO other cars,
    which brand will sell more parts/accessories?



    --
    Of course, it is no easy matter to be polite; in so far, I mean,
    as it requires us to show great respect for everybody, whereas
    most people deserve none at all; and again in so far as it
    demands that we should feign the most lively interest in people,
    when we must be very glad that we have nothing to do with them.

    - Arthur Schopenhauer
    thanatoid, Apr 30, 2008
    #18
  19. catchme

    thanatoid Guest

    Mitch <> wrote in
    news:040520081628013153%:

    <SNIP a landfill full of dead horses>

    >> Sigh. You HAVE to be joking. If there is a very small
    >> country where there are 100 Chevrolets and 10 Fords and NO
    >> other cars, which brand will sell more parts/accessories?

    >
    > I see what you mean, but you've artificially presented a
    > case where there are only two products. In software, there
    > are often hundreds.


    Hundreds of thousands in fact, but /programs/. We are talking
    about *2* OS's - Mac and Win.

    > So if you sell a product which is a
    > decent performer under Windows, but is actually fairly poor
    > compared to competitors in the Mac arena, then you have a
    > difference in the way they compete on each platform. (I was
    > thinking Premiere for that example.) You have to assume
    > their share of each market will be different, but you
    > probably wouldn't want to make one platform's price
    > cheaper.
    >
    > (What would you gain if you made the Windows price cheaper?
    > You already have a strong rep on that plaform, and you'd be
    > making less per sale.


    About 10x more "equivalent" software is sold for Windows than
    Mac. Are you going to disagree with that too?

    > What would you gain to make the Mac
    > price cheaper?


    Exactly. That's why it is H I G H E R.

    > You already don't compete as well, and you'd
    > be making less for the few sales you could add to that
    > platform.)


    Let's end this, OK?



    --
    There is no doubt that life is given us, not to be enjoyed, but
    to be overcome--to be got over.

    - Arthur Schopenhauer
    thanatoid, May 5, 2008
    #19
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