Re: Networks sharing a frequency?

Discussion in 'Wireless Networking' started by Lem, Dec 12, 2006.

  1. Lem

    Lem Guest

    simonc wrote:
    > My LAN is mostly cabled but I use a wireless connection for my laptop, so
    > this is only in use occasionally. Twice in the last year my wireless
    > connection has been inoperable, and I eventually solved the problem by
    > changing the frequency of my Access Point. I also noticed on both occasions
    > that the laptop was detecting more wireless networks in the area, so I
    > concluded that one of the new networks was sharing the same frequency as
    > mine, and this was causing interference.
    >
    > Is this supposed to happen? Isn't there a way that digital transmissions can
    > be segregated so that networks can share a frequency? In Europe there are
    > only 13 available channels so it seems possible in any densely populated area
    > you could quickly get a situation where every network had to share a
    > frequency with at least one other in range.
    >
    > Could it be a problem with my Access Point (Netgear WG602v3)? Is there some
    > setting I can make to allow the network to successfully share a channel?
    >
    > Grateful for any suggestions.
    >
    > By the way, I tried searching the news group for the words frequency and
    > channel in case this issue had been raised before but in both cases the
    > search gave no hits. I then tried searching for a word in the title of the
    > first message and it still gave no hits. Is the search working properly? Has
    > anyone else experienced this?


    You've hit on a problem that is only likely to get worse with the
    increasing popularity of wifi networks -- at least until the industry
    comes up with an entirely new and different model.

    In the U.S., unlike Europe, there are only 11 channels. However, there
    are actually only 3 "non-overlapping channels:" 1, 6, and 11 (they
    actually overlap a little, but should be sufficiently attenuated so as
    to not interfere with each other). See this Cisco white paper:
    http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products...hnical_reference09186a00802846a2.html#wp27831
    (tinyurl to same page: http://tinyurl.com/8yhyx)
    Moreover, some new "draft 802.11n" devices default to using 2 "bonded"
    channels for enhanced throughput, which causes increased interference
    with nearby 802.11b or 802.11g networks. I've seen one article that
    says, "The most critical issue currently is how to resolve the 'bad
    neighbor' effect of the current Draft N hardware."

    In addition, the 2.4 GHz radio band is shared with other devices (e.g.,
    cordless telephones, microwave ovens) and frequencies used by channels 1
    through 6 fall within the range of the 2.4 gigahertz amateur radio band.

    The solution currently in effect is to limit the power output of wifi
    devices so that, one hopes, they will be installed far enough apart to
    not interfere. As you've experience, however, in practice, there often
    is interference.
    --
    Lem MS MVP -- Networking

    To the moon and back with 64 Kbits of RAM and 512 Kbits of ROM.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
    Lem, Dec 12, 2006
    #1
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  2. Lem

    David Hettel Guest

    Twice in the last year my wireless
    >> > connection has been inoperable, and I eventually solved the problem by
    >> > changing the frequency of my Access Point. I also noticed on both
    >> > occasions
    >> > that the laptop was detecting more wireless networks in the area, so I
    >> > concluded that one of the new networks was sharing the same frequency
    >> > as
    >> > mine, and this was causing interference.


    In my area there are a number of other networks present. Simply because I
    see other networks even if they are on the same channel as I am does not
    mean I will not be able to connect to my access point. While they may cause
    interference, this does not mean that if there are four or more networks
    present you should expect to not connect. Are you in an area of low signal
    strength, are you at the edge of the range of your access point?

    --
    David Hettel

    Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for everyone
    to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to me in
    E-mail or news groups.

    Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

    DISCLAIMER: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranty of any kind,
    either expressed or implied, made in relation to the accuracy, reliability
    or content of this post. The author shall not be liable for any direct,
    indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of, or
    inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post and confers
    no rights.



    "simonc" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thanks for this reply. Let's hope pressure of demand on wireless networks
    > forces a solution sooner rather than later. Didn't anybody forsee this
    > coming?
    >
    > Still can't make search work in this newsgroup. Can anyone else?
    >
    > "Lem" wrote:
    >
    >> simonc wrote:
    >> > My LAN is mostly cabled but I use a wireless connection for my laptop,
    >> > so
    >> > this is only in use occasionally. Twice in the last year my wireless
    >> > connection has been inoperable, and I eventually solved the problem by
    >> > changing the frequency of my Access Point. I also noticed on both
    >> > occasions
    >> > that the laptop was detecting more wireless networks in the area, so I
    >> > concluded that one of the new networks was sharing the same frequency
    >> > as
    >> > mine, and this was causing interference.
    >> >
    >> > Is this supposed to happen? Isn't there a way that digital
    >> > transmissions can
    >> > be segregated so that networks can share a frequency? In Europe there
    >> > are
    >> > only 13 available channels so it seems possible in any densely
    >> > populated area
    >> > you could quickly get a situation where every network had to share a
    >> > frequency with at least one other in range.
    >> >
    >> > Could it be a problem with my Access Point (Netgear WG602v3)? Is there
    >> > some
    >> > setting I can make to allow the network to successfully share a
    >> > channel?
    >> >
    >> > Grateful for any suggestions.
    >> >
    >> > By the way, I tried searching the news group for the words frequency
    >> > and
    >> > channel in case this issue had been raised before but in both cases the
    >> > search gave no hits. I then tried searching for a word in the title of
    >> > the
    >> > first message and it still gave no hits. Is the search working
    >> > properly? Has
    >> > anyone else experienced this?

    >>
    >> You've hit on a problem that is only likely to get worse with the
    >> increasing popularity of wifi networks -- at least until the industry
    >> comes up with an entirely new and different model.
    >>
    >> In the U.S., unlike Europe, there are only 11 channels. However, there
    >> are actually only 3 "non-overlapping channels:" 1, 6, and 11 (they
    >> actually overlap a little, but should be sufficiently attenuated so as
    >> to not interfere with each other). See this Cisco white paper:
    >> http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products...hnical_reference09186a00802846a2.html#wp27831
    >> (tinyurl to same page: http://tinyurl.com/8yhyx)
    >> Moreover, some new "draft 802.11n" devices default to using 2 "bonded"
    >> channels for enhanced throughput, which causes increased interference
    >> with nearby 802.11b or 802.11g networks. I've seen one article that
    >> says, "The most critical issue currently is how to resolve the 'bad
    >> neighbor' effect of the current Draft N hardware."
    >>
    >> In addition, the 2.4 GHz radio band is shared with other devices (e.g.,
    >> cordless telephones, microwave ovens) and frequencies used by channels 1
    >> through 6 fall within the range of the 2.4 gigahertz amateur radio band.
    >>
    >> The solution currently in effect is to limit the power output of wifi
    >> devices so that, one hopes, they will be installed far enough apart to
    >> not interfere. As you've experience, however, in practice, there often
    >> is interference.
    >> --
    >> Lem MS MVP -- Networking
    >>
    >> To the moon and back with 64 Kbits of RAM and 512 Kbits of ROM.
    >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
    >>
    David Hettel, Dec 12, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. "David Hettel" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Twice in the last year my wireless
    >>> > connection has been inoperable, and I eventually solved the problem by
    >>> > changing the frequency of my Access Point. I also noticed on both
    >>> > occasions
    >>> > that the laptop was detecting more wireless networks in the area, so I
    >>> > concluded that one of the new networks was sharing the same frequency
    >>> > as
    >>> > mine, and this was causing interference.

    >
    > In my area there are a number of other networks present. Simply because I
    > see other networks even if they are on the same channel as I am does not
    > mean I will not be able to connect to my access point. While they may
    > cause interference, this does not mean that if there are four or more
    > networks present you should expect to not connect. Are you in an area of
    > low signal strength, are you at the edge of the range of your access
    > point?
    >
    > --
    > David Hettel
    >
    > Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for
    > everyone
    > to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to me
    > in
    > E-mail or news groups.
    >
    > Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
    > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
    >
    > DISCLAIMER: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranty of any kind,
    > either expressed or implied, made in relation to the accuracy, reliability
    > or content of this post. The author shall not be liable for any direct,
    > indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of,
    > or
    > inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post and
    > confers
    > no rights.
    >
    >
    >
    > "simonc" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Thanks for this reply. Let's hope pressure of demand on wireless networks
    >> forces a solution sooner rather than later. Didn't anybody forsee this
    >> coming?
    >>
    >> Still can't make search work in this newsgroup. Can anyone else?
    >>
    >> "Lem" wrote:
    >>
    >>> simonc wrote:
    >>> > My LAN is mostly cabled but I use a wireless connection for my laptop,
    >>> > so
    >>> > this is only in use occasionally. Twice in the last year my wireless
    >>> > connection has been inoperable, and I eventually solved the problem by
    >>> > changing the frequency of my Access Point. I also noticed on both
    >>> > occasions
    >>> > that the laptop was detecting more wireless networks in the area, so I
    >>> > concluded that one of the new networks was sharing the same frequency
    >>> > as
    >>> > mine, and this was causing interference.
    >>> >
    >>> > Is this supposed to happen? Isn't there a way that digital
    >>> > transmissions can
    >>> > be segregated so that networks can share a frequency? In Europe there
    >>> > are
    >>> > only 13 available channels so it seems possible in any densely
    >>> > populated area
    >>> > you could quickly get a situation where every network had to share a
    >>> > frequency with at least one other in range.
    >>> >
    >>> > Could it be a problem with my Access Point (Netgear WG602v3)? Is there
    >>> > some
    >>> > setting I can make to allow the network to successfully share a
    >>> > channel?
    >>> >
    >>> > Grateful for any suggestions.
    >>> >
    >>> > By the way, I tried searching the news group for the words frequency
    >>> > and
    >>> > channel in case this issue had been raised before but in both cases
    >>> > the
    >>> > search gave no hits. I then tried searching for a word in the title of
    >>> > the
    >>> > first message and it still gave no hits. Is the search working
    >>> > properly? Has
    >>> > anyone else experienced this?
    >>>
    >>> You've hit on a problem that is only likely to get worse with the
    >>> increasing popularity of wifi networks -- at least until the industry
    >>> comes up with an entirely new and different model.
    >>>
    >>> In the U.S., unlike Europe, there are only 11 channels. However, there
    >>> are actually only 3 "non-overlapping channels:" 1, 6, and 11 (they
    >>> actually overlap a little, but should be sufficiently attenuated so as
    >>> to not interfere with each other). See this Cisco white paper:
    >>> http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products...hnical_reference09186a00802846a2.html#wp27831
    >>> (tinyurl to same page: http://tinyurl.com/8yhyx)
    >>> Moreover, some new "draft 802.11n" devices default to using 2 "bonded"
    >>> channels for enhanced throughput, which causes increased interference
    >>> with nearby 802.11b or 802.11g networks. I've seen one article that
    >>> says, "The most critical issue currently is how to resolve the 'bad
    >>> neighbor' effect of the current Draft N hardware."
    >>>
    >>> In addition, the 2.4 GHz radio band is shared with other devices (e.g.,
    >>> cordless telephones, microwave ovens) and frequencies used by channels 1
    >>> through 6 fall within the range of the 2.4 gigahertz amateur radio band.
    >>>
    >>> The solution currently in effect is to limit the power output of wifi
    >>> devices so that, one hopes, they will be installed far enough apart to
    >>> not interfere. As you've experience, however, in practice, there often
    >>> is interference.
    >>> --
    >>> Lem MS MVP -- Networking
    >>>
    >>> To the moon and back with 64 Kbits of RAM and 512 Kbits of ROM.
    >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
    >>>

    >
    Jack \(MVP-Networking\)., Dec 12, 2006
    #3
  4. simonc <> wrote:

    > Let's hope pressure of demand on wireless networks forces a solution
    > sooner rather than later. Didn't anybody forsee this coming?
    >
    > Still can't make search work in this newsgroup. Can anyone else?


    The pressure of demand on wireless networks-problem is probably much
    overrated, in that 802.11 has ways of dealing with stations sharing the
    radio frequency - CSMA/CA.

    You may find a recent thread in the newsgroup alt.internet.wireless
    interesting. The thread starts here:

    : From: "Bill Radio" <>
    : Newsgroups: alt.internet.wireless
    : Subject: Choosing a Channel?
    : Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 00:12:12 -0700
    : Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
    : Message-ID: <>
    Axel Hammerschmidt, Dec 14, 2006
    #4
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