Re: Multiple Linux Flaws Reported

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by pbs, Apr 24, 2004.

  1. pbs

    pbs Guest

    Nihil wrote:
    > On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:17:40 +1200, Chris Hope wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Nihil wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:11:04 +1200, Chris Hope wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Another interesting thing is that people who work for free on open-source
    >>>>projects are usually doing it because they have passion for the project.
    >>>>The same couldn't be said as often for people working on proprietary
    >>>>closed-sourced software who are just doing it to take home a paycheck...
    >>>
    >>>Let me get this straight.
    >>>
    >>>You think if you ever got paid for doing something, you could never have
    >>>been passionate about it?

    >>
    >>Nice twisting of words there.

    > I'm not twisting anything, I just want to understand your view.
    >>I know a lot of programmers

    > So do I.
    >>(I am one myself)

    > So am I.
    >>and most of them are just doing a job.

    > So what are you saying? They don't enjoy it?
    >>They don't choose what jobs they do

    > Why not? I choose what jobs I do.


    Then you are probably a (successful) independent contract programmer and
    Chris Hope is probably a permanent member of staff.

    [snip]
    >>Anyway, I'll stop feeding the troll there...

    >
    > There's this abundantly used word "Troll" again. What the hell is it with
    > this word "Troll"?


    It is a pun. To troll is to drag a baited fishing line through the water
    in the hope of getting a bite (or in a news group a byte). A troll is
    something Scandinavian that lives under a rickety rackety bridge, that
    eats goats and you would not want your daughter to marry.

    In Usenet slang it is common to describe someone who puts forward a
    controversial point of view just to elicit a response as a troll because
    the act is a troll.

    Some trolls (for example, any which one writes oneself) are not trolls,
    but are trawls, because they pull bottom feeders to the surface and
    expose them to the light of day ;-)
    pbs, Apr 24, 2004
    #1
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  2. pbs

    Nihil Guest

    Trolls ( was Multiple Linux Flaws Reported ) (was: Multiple Linux Flaws Reported)

    On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:00:52 +1200, pbs wrote:

    >>>They don't choose what jobs they do

    >> Why not? I choose what jobs I do.

    >
    > Then you are probably a (successful) independent contract programmer and
    > Chris Hope is probably a permanent member of staff.


    I worked on contract for two years, then I worked for a software company
    for four years, and now I run my own business.

    > [snip]
    >>>Anyway, I'll stop feeding the troll there...

    >>
    >> There's this abundantly used word "Troll" again. What the hell is it with
    >> this word "Troll"?

    >
    > It is a pun. To troll is to drag a baited fishing line through the water
    > in the hope of getting a bite (or in a news group a byte). A troll is
    > something Scandinavian that lives under a rickety rackety bridge, that
    > eats goats and you would not want your daughter to marry.
    >
    > In Usenet slang it is common to describe someone who puts forward a
    > controversial point of view just to elicit a response as a troll because
    > the act is a troll.
    >
    > Some trolls (for example, any which one writes oneself) are not trolls,
    > but are trawls, because they pull bottom feeders to the surface and
    > expose them to the light of day ;-)


    Well what I've been notcing is that if I ask a hard question or say
    something that even slightly rubs against the grain the Troll word comes
    out. My view is that it is used by people who are unable to hold their own
    in an argument and use it as some sort of survival technique. Not only
    that, they tend to post as if they think they're speaking for everyone.
    Probably some sort of crude intimidation technique.


    --
    " ...if I tell you, how do I know you won't kill me...? "
    " ...because if you told me and I killed you and you were lying, I wouldn't
    get to kill you again now would I...? "
    Nihil, Apr 25, 2004
    #2
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  3. pbs

    pbs Guest

    Re: Trolls

    Nihil wrote:
    > On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:00:52 +1200, pbs wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>>They don't choose what jobs they do
    >>>
    >>>Why not? I choose what jobs I do.

    >>
    >>Then you are probably a (successful) independent contract programmer and
    >>Chris Hope is probably a permanent member of staff.

    >
    >
    > I worked on contract for two years, then I worked for a software company
    > for four years, and now I run my own business.
    >
    >
    >>[snip]
    >>
    >>>>Anyway, I'll stop feeding the troll there...
    >>>
    >>>There's this abundantly used word "Troll" again. What the hell is it with
    >>>this word "Troll"?

    >>
    >>It is a pun. To troll is to drag a baited fishing line through the water
    >>in the hope of getting a bite (or in a news group a byte). A troll is
    >>something Scandinavian that lives under a rickety rackety bridge, that
    >>eats goats and you would not want your daughter to marry.
    >>
    >>In Usenet slang it is common to describe someone who puts forward a
    >>controversial point of view just to elicit a response as a troll because
    >>the act is a troll.
    >>
    >>Some trolls (for example, any which one writes oneself) are not trolls,
    >>but are trawls, because they pull bottom feeders to the surface and
    >>expose them to the light of day ;-)

    >
    >
    > Well what I've been notcing is that if I ask a hard question or say
    > something that even slightly rubs against the grain the Troll word comes
    > out. My view is that it is used by people who are unable to hold their own
    > in an argument and use it as some sort of survival technique. Not only
    > that, they tend to post as if they think they're speaking for everyone.
    > Probably some sort of crude intimidation technique.


    To be a troll one does not have to start a thread. Instead one can lurk
    and pounce. In this case it is the style of argument which tends to be
    read in a negative way because the reader interprets the response to be
    aggressive. Let me give you an example from a fork in the parent of this
    thread called "Multiple Linux Flaws Reported"

    If one writes:
    : IMHO that is rather crude measure. I think a better measure is
    : the number decisions and branches in the code which is called
    : "cyclometric complexity"...

    instead of:
    > Um, that's rather crude. Infact useless.
    > You should instead be interested in cyclometric complexity which is
    > essentialy a measure of the number of decisions and branches within...


    Then there is less likelihood of being read as argumentative and just
    looking to score points to entice flame responses, which is what trolls
    seek to do.

    In the thread "Linux Minimum System Requirements" you have contributed
    5 posts yesterday which read:
    1> This is not a thread discussing military terminology.
    1> But I forget, you're a moron.
    2> Actually it depends on whether you're a Kook or not.
    3> No you lackwit, it's discussing the term "cache" as used in
    computing.
    4> Well well well, the return of the gigging imbecile.
    4> I didn't know you were Divines bitch, but it certainly explains a
    lot.
    4> One time waster attracts another it seems.
    5> Time waster.

    Now that you know what a troll is do you think your 5 postings in the
    thread "Linux Minimum System Requirements" could possibly be seen by a
    disinterested observer as the contributions of a troll?

    As well as the Wikipedia url http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
    (which has been mentioned in another recent posting to this group)
    there are three other URLs you might find interesting:

    The nettiquet guide http://www.dtcc.edu/cs/rfc1855.html#3
    Godwin's Law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
    and it is worth reading http://news.com.com/2008-1082_3-5065298.html and
    seeing which category you think you fit into:
    : It's also thread-to-post. How many threads did you touch, how many
    : messages did you write? If you wrote 10 times, all into one thread,
    : that's a low ratio. You have a high conversational concentration


    IMHO it is a shame that most people do no post a genuine email address
    any more, because a lot of the tail end of threads, which had
    degenerated into flame wars, used to be conducted by one to one emails
    and now tend to clutter up news groups :-(

    --
    Microsoft's in-house sociologist:
    I'm a social scientist--I don't know the difference between good and bad
    pbs, Apr 26, 2004
    #3
  4. pbs

    Nihil Guest

    Re: Trolls

    On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:52:59 +1200, pbs wrote:

    > Now that you know what a troll is do you think your 5 postings in the
    > thread "Linux Minimum System Requirements" could possibly be seen by a
    > disinterested observer as the contributions of a troll?


    No.


    --
    ....check out the nametag.. you're in MY world now grandma...
    Nihil, Apr 26, 2004
    #4
  5. pbs

    pbs Guest

    Re: Trolls

    Nihil wrote:
    > On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:52:59 +1200, pbs wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Now that you know what a troll is do you think your 5 postings in the
    >>thread "Linux Minimum System Requirements" could possibly be seen by a
    >>disinterested observer as the contributions of a troll?

    >
    > No.


    "You can take a troll^H^H^H^H^H horse to the water,
    but you can't make it drink."
    pbs, Apr 26, 2004
    #5
  6. pbs

    Nihil Guest

    Re: Trolls

    On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:57:33 +1200, pbs wrote:

    > Nihil wrote:
    >> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:52:59 +1200, pbs wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Now that you know what a troll is do you think your 5 postings in the
    >>>thread "Linux Minimum System Requirements" could possibly be seen by a
    >>>disinterested observer as the contributions of a troll?

    >>
    >> No.

    >
    > "You can take a troll^H^H^H^H^H horse to the water,
    > but you can't make it drink."


    Whatever.


    --
    ....check out the nametag.. you're in MY world now grandma...
    Nihil, Apr 26, 2004
    #6
  7. Re: Trolls

    In article <1srx2elcoju$>, lid
    says...
    > On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:57:33 +1200, pbs wrote:
    >
    > > Nihil wrote:
    > >> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:52:59 +1200, pbs wrote:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>Now that you know what a troll is do you think your 5 postings in the
    > >>>thread "Linux Minimum System Requirements" could possibly be seen by a
    > >>>disinterested observer as the contributions of a troll?
    > >>
    > >> No.

    > >
    > > "You can take a troll^H^H^H^H^H horse to the water,
    > > but you can't make it drink."

    >
    > Whatever.


    Nor, I suppose, do you know the meaning of *plonk*.
    Peter Huebner, Apr 26, 2004
    #7
  8. pbs

    Nihil Guest

    Re: Trolls

    On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:33:15 +1200, Peter Huebner wrote:

    > Nor, I suppose, do you know the meaning of *plonk*.


    I wouldn't say it's at the top of my priority list of things I should know.

    --
    ....check out the nametag.. you're in MY world now grandma...
    Nihil, Apr 26, 2004
    #8
  9. pbs

    splat Guest

    Re: Trolls

    "Nihil" <> wrote in message
    news:cvlrnohazham$...
    > On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:33:15 +1200, Peter Huebner wrote:
    >
    > > Nor, I suppose, do you know the meaning of *plonk*.

    >
    > I wouldn't say it's at the top of my priority list of things I should

    know.
    >
    > --


    Ok, man, seriously (putting all animosity aside for a minute), are you
    serious?

    Im trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but, I wonder if I'll regret
    it :)

    You've indicated that you didnt know the definition of "troll". Now you're
    indicating you dont know the definition of "plonk"?!

    So, are you a complete usenet "noob" or have I been sucked into your plan?

    Your response may or may not provide the key.

    PS. Ifn you are a usenet noob, we can upskill you and noone will ever know
    :)

    BTW, the smileys mean Im not having a dig here :)
    splat, Apr 27, 2004
    #9
  10. pbs

    Nihil Guest

    Re: Trolls

    On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:52:12 GMT, splat wrote:

    > Ok, man, seriously (putting all animosity aside for a minute), are you serious?


    Why would there be any animosity? Perhaps because I pointed out that you
    were the pot calling the kettle black and a hypocrite. Maybe you didn't
    like that because I was right and it spoiled your fun? You responded by
    refusing to answer my questions, instead calling me stupid, a loser, a
    troll, flamebait. Just to confirm my suspicions you then started poking
    your nose in other threads I was participating in, slagging me off
    (trolling no less) in the finest traditions of a hypocrite.

    > Im trying to give you the benefit of the doubt,


    I don't need anyones benefit.

    > but, I wonder if I'll regret it :)


    It would only continue the trend.

    > You've indicated that you didnt know the definition of "troll".


    You called me a troll when you are blatantly no better yourself. So why
    even use the word in the first place, unless you're, a hypocrite?

    > Now you're indicating you dont know the definition of "plonk"?!


    I was mearly making a mini mockery of a persons dig at me.

    > So, are you a complete usenet "noob" or have I been sucked into your plan?
    > Your response may or may not provide the key.


    I am not a "noob" nor is there a master plan. I don't play along to get
    along. I come as I am.

    > PS. Ifn you are a usenet noob, we can upskill you and noone will ever know :)


    I don't want to join your little gang of cyber taunters.

    > BTW, the smileys mean Im not having a dig here :)


    Always a good way to treat your superiors.

    --
    " ...if I tell you, how do I know you won't kill me...? "
    " ...because if you told me and I killed you and you were lying, I wouldn't
    get to kill you again now would I...? "
    Nihil, Apr 27, 2004
    #10
  11. pbs

    splat Guest

    Re: Trolls

    "Nihil" <> wrote in message
    news:pf587rpo5njg$.17xzvntgauv9c$...
    > On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:52:12 GMT, splat wrote:
    >
    > > Ok, man, seriously (putting all animosity aside for a minute), are you

    serious?
    >
    > Why would there be any animosity? Perhaps because I pointed out that you
    > were the pot calling the kettle black and a hypocrite. Maybe you didn't
    > like that because I was right and it spoiled your fun? You responded by
    > refusing to answer my questions, instead calling me stupid, a loser, a
    > troll, flamebait. Just to confirm my suspicions you then started poking
    > your nose in other threads I was participating in, slagging me off
    > (trolling no less) in the finest traditions of a hypocrite.
    >
    > > Im trying to give you the benefit of the doubt,

    >
    > I don't need anyones benefit.
    >
    > > but, I wonder if I'll regret it :)

    >
    > It would only continue the trend.
    >
    > > You've indicated that you didnt know the definition of "troll".

    >
    > You called me a troll when you are blatantly no better yourself. So why
    > even use the word in the first place, unless you're, a hypocrite?
    >
    > > Now you're indicating you dont know the definition of "plonk"?!

    >
    > I was mearly making a mini mockery of a persons dig at me.
    >
    > > So, are you a complete usenet "noob" or have I been sucked into your

    plan?
    > > Your response may or may not provide the key.

    >
    > I am not a "noob" nor is there a master plan. I don't play along to get
    > along. I come as I am.
    >
    > > PS. Ifn you are a usenet noob, we can upskill you and noone will ever

    know :)
    >
    > I don't want to join your little gang of cyber taunters.
    >
    > > BTW, the smileys mean Im not having a dig here :)

    >
    > Always a good way to treat your superiors.
    >
    > --
    > " ...if I tell you, how do I know you won't kill me...? "
    > " ...because if you told me and I killed you and you were lying, I

    wouldn't
    > get to kill you again now would I...? "



    Dude? when someone offers you an olive branch - do you always feel the need
    to slap them in the face instead of accepting it?
    splat, Apr 27, 2004
    #11
  12. pbs

    Nihil Guest

    Re: Trolls

    On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:53:02 GMT, splat wrote:

    > Dude? when someone offers you an olive branch - do you always feel the need to
    > slap them in the face


    Like some kind of sadist they keep coming back for more, eh Splat?

    > instead of accepting it?


    I don't like Olives.

    --
    ....check out the nametag.. you're in MY world now grandma...
    Nihil, Apr 27, 2004
    #12
  13. pbs

    splat Guest

    Re: Trolls

    "Nihil" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:53:02 GMT, splat wrote:
    >
    > > Dude? when someone offers you an olive branch - do you always feel the

    need to
    > > slap them in the face

    >
    > Like some kind of sadist they keep coming back for more, eh Splat?
    >
    > > instead of accepting it?

    >
    > I don't like Olives.
    >
    > --
    > ...check out the nametag.. you're in MY world now grandma...


    Not a sadist at all. Just thought you might actually realise that its only
    words on a screen.

    You think your pathetic insults worry me? You think your imagined online
    power makes up for your inadequacies in real life? Enjoying your anonymous
    power?

    Of course, you will answer yes to each question - because you think you're
    "winning" some imaginary game in your head.

    And that is the saddest thing of all - you actually believe this is real.

    Don't bother responding, I wont see it.

    PLONK
    splat, Apr 27, 2004
    #13
  14. Re: Trolls

    splat wrote:
    > Of course, you will answer yes to each question - because you think you're
    > "winning" some imaginary game in your head.


    Arguing on the internet is like winning at the special olympics... win
    or lose you're still a retard. :)

    --
    Dave Hall
    http://Dave.net.nz
    We have Hangman, Pacman, and Space Invaders
    T.N.O. - Dave.net.nz, Apr 27, 2004
    #14
  15. pbs

    Nihil Guest

    Re: Trolls

    On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:32:14 GMT, splat wrote:

    > Not a sadist at all. Just thought you might actually realise that its only
    > words on a screen.


    No reason for you to get all worked up then, is there?

    > You think your pathetic insults worry me?


    I don't know, do they?

    You see, again you demonstrate the main problem I have with you. Your
    hypocrisy. You've been taunting me all along, but I'm the bad guy.

    > You think your imagined online power makes up for your inadequacies in real life?
    > Enjoying your anonymous power? Of course, you will answer yes to each question
    > - because you think you're "winning" some imaginary game in your head.


    That's your imagination not mine. I've just been going about my business.
    It's you who keeps nipping at my heels univited trying to put the boot in.
    I am simply reserving the right of reply.

    > And that is the saddest thing of all - you actually believe this is real.
    > Don't bother responding, I wont see it.


    Gee I dunno. Maybe I'm not real. Perhaps I've just been a figment of your
    imagination?

    > PLONK


    Was that the sound of reality hitting you on the head?

    --
    ....check out the nametag.. you're in MY world now grandma...
    Nihil, Apr 27, 2004
    #15
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