Re: MSConfig Error

Discussion in 'A+ Certification' started by MF, Jan 9, 2004.

  1. MF

    MF Guest

    "Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > That was not the msconfig problem, which is resolved (see my

    previous post).

    >>My system is multi-boot and I believe that there is a problem with
    > >>boot.ini, but that's just a guess. My boot.ini file is:
    > >>**************
    > >>[boot loader]
    > >>timeout=30
    > >>default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)\WINDOWS
    > >>[operating systems]
    > >>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
    > >>Professional" /fastdetect
    > >>C:\="Microsoft Windows 98"

    **************
    boot.ini sytax is a bit odd. controllers start at 0 for the first,
    disks start at 0 for the first, partitions start at 1
    all partitions are listed after the controller and disk they exist on.
    Yours means:

    multi(0) = the first disk controller in the system
    disk(0) = meaningless, if you have, as I guess, and IDE system
    rdisk(0)= first ide disk in the system
    partition(3)=third partition on the disk
    \Windows= the directory where XPs so called boot files (actually the
    operating system files called "system files" in all worlds outside
    Redmond) exist.
    the stuff in quotes= what gets displayed to you
    C:\= the drive letter and directory (must be root of the first disk)
    where the bootsec.dos file exists. bootsec.dos is a copy of what _was_
    the boot sector under Win98. It contains the information to run Win98
    or any other MS-dos based operating system.

    Let's say you were quadruple booting DOS, Win 3.1 Win95, and Win98,
    then put in a new, big drive and installed any version of NT. (Say
    it's XP since XP is NT 5.5!!! Let tradition live!!! Sorry, that's
    unamerican, time to refill the Vodka keg.)

    You'd end up with something like this:
    [boot loader]
    timeout=30
    default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS
    [operating systems]
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
    Professional" /fastdetect
    C:\="Microsoft Windows"

    although the last entry might simply be "Previous MS DOS" When you
    choose Microsoft Windows from the boot menu, NTLDR knows to look in
    the root of C: for bootsec.dos and hand over control to whatever is in
    it. So then boot.sec dos would run and you'd be presented with your
    earlier options, MS-DOS through Windows 98. So you'd be quintuple
    booting (which would be no problem) but boot.ini would only give you
    two options, the rest being presented to you after bootsec.dos ran.

    Here is a right mess of a boot ini:

    [boot loader]
    timeout=22
    default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT
    [operating systems]
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2000
    Professional" /fastdetect
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(5)\WIN-3SRV="Windows Server 2003,
    Enterprise" /fastdetect
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)\WINXP="Microsoft Windows XP
    Professional" /fastdetect
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(4)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2000
    Advanced Server" /fastdetect
    C:\="Microsoft Windows"
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(2)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2000
    Professional (#1)" /fastdetect
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(2)\WINXP="Microsoft Windows XP
    Professional (#1)" /fastdetect
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(2)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2000
    Advanced Server (#1)" /fastdetect
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(2)\WIN-3SRV="Windows Server 2003,
    Enterprise (#1)" /fastdetect

    This is the result of a cloned drive occupying the position of
    rdisk(1). Not recommended, but, believe
    it or not, boot.ini and ntldr can handle _most_ of it. none of the
    windows versions on disk 0 have any problems, but as you can see, if I
    want to run a Windows on the cloned drive, OR, if I change the cloned
    drive to the master, I'll have to go in and fix boot.ini or only one
    of the versions will run (win2kPro) - because boot ini has stuck them
    all into partition (2). Only Win2KPro is actually there, however,
    while the others are in separate partitions. And to get 98 to run on
    the cloned drive I'll have to make an entry for C:\="Win 98", so when
    NTLDR reads the file (boot.ini) it will learn of the existence of
    bootsec.dos.

    Longwinded, huh...
    regards,
    Mike







    > >>
    > >>The system has a single hard drive. Drive C: is Windows 98, while

    > >
    > > drive
    > >
    > >>D: (2nd partition) is XP (there are also E:, F:, G: and H:

    partitions.
    > >>All partitions except H: are FAT32, H: is NTFS.
    > >>
    > >>Does anyone see an obvious problem? I'm wondering if the

    > >
    > > "partition(3)"
    > >
    > >>that appears twice in boot.ini file should be "partition(2)".
    > >>
    > >>Is there an online reference for the format of boot.ini?
    > >>
    > >>If this isn't the problem, then any ideas as to what might be?
    > >>
    > >>Thanks
    > >>

    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    MF, Jan 9, 2004
    #1
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  2. MF

    MF Guest

    Billy,
    You are right to be curious; the description was a little cavalier.
    For only a short while (about 4-5 months) did I need 95 and 98. For
    part of that time, I had one drive running DOS, Windows 3.1, 95 and
    NT. Then I needed to teach 98 as well (for A+ classes), and what I
    first did was simply to put it on another drive, in the first, primary
    active partition. Then made that drive the slave and switched to
    booting from it in SETUP. I did have a couple boot loaders, but didn't
    like the way they looked, so got rid of them and took the trouble to
    use BIOS.. You can run DOS Win3.x, and 9x together by simply
    installing them in (historical) order, with a clean install for 9x in
    a non-standard directory, then enable "multiboot" in 9x's msdos.sys.

    Then put NT in a separate partition on the first drive. When NT
    starts, it gives you the option for 9x. When 9x starts, it gives you
    the option for previous DOS.

    Then I found this article, or maybe earlier version, the ostensible
    purpose of which is to enable dual booting while running win 98 on a
    fat 32 partition and NT on an NTFS partition, but also tells you how
    to get 9x off the C: drive and make it (or them) boot from different
    partitions. Its at
    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;243896 .

    In a sense, though, when I was doing this, 9x was assisted by NT. (In
    the end I just made a list of differences between 95 and 98, got rid
    of 95 and taught the list, because even if the book being used had
    chapters on each there wasn't enough time in class to "cover" them
    both).

    And since NT, from the point of view of 9x (as in horror movies
    where they show "POV Carnivorous Cockroach" and such) is a sort of
    third party boot loader, in that sense, what you were thinking is
    correct. Setting up 95/98/ME to boot from partitions the same
    physical drive without a better OS to help them out is beyond me.

    Mike

    "Billy" <> wrote in message
    news:goHLb.1026$...
    > That was interesting.
    > Could you provide an example of the configuration and bootsec.dos to
    > allow booting of MS-DOS and more than one 95/98/ME partition? Was it
    > setup with more than one of the later in the C: drive?
    > Not trying to be skeptical, just curious. I thought the only way to

    do
    > this required a third party utility to hide/swap active partitions.
    >
    > "> Let's say you were quadruple booting DOS, Win 3.1 Win95, and

    Win98,
    > > then put in a new, big drive and installed any version of NT. (Say
    > > it's XP since XP is NT 5.5!!! Let tradition live!!! Sorry, that's
    > > unamerican, time to refill the Vodka keg.)
    > >
    > > You'd end up with something like this:
    > > [boot loader]
    > > timeout=30
    > > default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS
    > > [operating systems]
    > > multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
    > > Professional" /fastdetect
    > > C:\="Microsoft Windows"
    > >
    > > although the last entry might simply be "Previous MS DOS" When

    you
    > > choose Microsoft Windows from the boot menu, NTLDR knows to look

    in
    > > the root of C: for bootsec.dos and hand over control to whatever

    is in
    > > it. So then boot.sec dos would run and you'd be presented with

    your
    > > earlier options, MS-DOS through Windows 98. So you'd be quintuple
    > > booting (which would be no problem) but boot.ini would only give

    you
    > > two options, the rest being presented to you after bootsec.dos

    ran.
    > >
    > > Here is a right mess of a boot ini:
    > >
    > > [boot loader]
    > > timeout=22
    > > default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT
    > > [operating systems]
    > > multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2000
    > > Professional" /fastdetect
    > > multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(5)\WIN-3SRV="Windows Server 2003,
    > > Enterprise" /fastdetect
    > > multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)\WINXP="Microsoft Windows XP
    > > Professional" /fastdetect
    > > multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(4)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2000
    > > Advanced Server" /fastdetect
    > > C:\="Microsoft Windows"
    > > multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(2)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2000
    > > Professional (#1)" /fastdetect
    > > multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(2)\WINXP="Microsoft Windows XP
    > > Professional (#1)" /fastdetect
    > > multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(2)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2000
    > > Advanced Server (#1)" /fastdetect
    > > multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(2)\WIN-3SRV="Windows Server 2003,
    > > Enterprise (#1)" /fastdetect
    > >

    > Damn, your as nuts as I am :)
    >
    >
    MF, Jan 13, 2004
    #2
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  3. MF

    MF Guest

    Because it's the third partition on the first disk on the first
    controller in the system. :)
    And boot.ini doesn't read or care about drive letters.

    Disk numbering under the "ARC "(Advanced Risk Computing) convention is
    not necessarily consistent with drive lettering. I;ve got an older
    computer someone gave me last month off the left in my "lab". It's
    got a hard disk sitting on top of it, two disks in it, and a CD-RW
    drive. It had one HD when I got it and I just sort of stuck the other
    ones, and the burner, in there -- and the drives were already
    partitioned and formatted - to move stuff around on them -- and then
    had to put a post-it note to remember where the drives (meaning drive
    letters) were. It says,

    Disk 0: C:, E:, F: --
    Disk 1: D:, G:, H:, J: --
    Disk 2 (maxtor 3 gig) I:, L:, K:

    0 and 1 are on the first IDE controller, 2 is on the second (but would
    read in boot.ini as multi 1 disk 0)

    Boot.ini would present the F drive as multi(0)disk(0) [irrelevant,
    it's IDE] rdisk(0) partition (3). Whatever OS is on that partition,
    which I think is NT4 server, that's where NTLDR runs it from, after
    reading boot.ini. It reads boot.ini, finds that partition and runs
    the partition boot sector, which includes info on how to run whatever
    OS is on that partition.

    The label in boot.ini: multi 0, rdisk 0, partition 3, means, to read
    backwards, third partition on the first hard drive on the first
    controller (IDE 1) in the computer..

    But it shows in Explorer as drive F. In other words, what one would
    think was the fourth partition of all the partitions in the system.
    That's because it's the last logical drive in the extended partition
    on that disk.

    I can't know for sure, but would guess that something like that is
    happening on your system.

    So the question to ask is not what drive letter is XP on, but what
    partition on what physical disk. You can see this graphically in
    either Partition Magic or NT(XP) Disk Manager.

    And, as far as I know, the labelling in boot.ini is unalterable --
    i.e., if you change that number to something else, it won't boot --
    whereas the drive lettering (after abc, and even including c
    sometimes) can be pretty much anything.

    there is also the possibility of a hidden partition that windows
    doesn\t pick up when it's labelling the drives.

    if this doesn't help, do an alt screen print in disk manager and cut
    out graphic section of the partition layout on the drives and post it
    up here as a graphic. you can get away with that for a little while,
    i think, :) , as i did when i was asking about a monitor that was
    going bad) and that might help to understand what's going on in your
    system.

    Also as in your description. of SCSI priorities, remember the
    development of the IDE standard. First one channel, than two
    channels, IDE 1 and 2, ------ conceived of, in boot ini, as the first
    and second controllers: multi 0 and multi 1.

    so you have (assuming all are hard drives)
    IDE 1 master = multi(0) ... rdisk (0)
    IDE 1 slave = multi(0) ... rdisk (1)
    IDE 2 master = multi (1)... rdisk (0)
    IDE 2 slave = multi (1) .... rdisk(1)

    then the partitions as they are laid out. each logical drive on the
    disk reads as a partition.

    regards
    Mike

    "Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Ok, but what doesn't make sense is why does my Boot.ini say:
    >
    > multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
    > Professional" /fastdetect
    >
    > When XP is on D: which is the SECOND (not 3rd) partition?


    the second partion WHERE? in the alphabet or on the physical
    configuration of your disks?

    > Is it counting the Extended partition that contains drives D: thru

    H: as
    > the 2nd partition?


    Duno - question is, on what disk?

    > It does work just fine, both for manual choice and automatic bootup.
    >
    >
    > > **************
    > > boot.ini sytax is a bit odd. controllers start at 0 for the first,
    > > disks start at 0 for the first, partitions start at 1
    > > all partitions are listed after the controller and disk they exist

    on.
    > > Yours means:
    > >
    > > multi(0) = the first disk controller in the system
    > > disk(0) = meaningless, if you have, as I guess, and IDE system
    > > rdisk(0)= first ide disk in the system
    > > partition(3)=third partition on the disk
    > > \Windows= the directory where XPs so called boot files (actually

    the
    > > operating system files called "system files" in all worlds outside
    > > Redmond) exist.
    > > the stuff in quotes= what gets displayed to you
    > > C:\= the drive letter and directory (must be root of the first

    disk)
    > > where the bootsec.dos file exists. bootsec.dos is a copy of what

    _was_
    > > the boot sector under Win98. It contains the information to run

    Win98
    > > or any other MS-dos based operating system.
    > >
    > > Let's say you were quadruple booting DOS, Win 3.1 Win95, and

    Win98,
    > > then put in a new, big drive and installed any version of NT. (Say
    > > it's XP since XP is NT 5.5!!! Let tradition live!!! Sorry, that's
    > > unamerican, time to refill the Vodka keg.)
    > >
    > > You'd end up with something like this:
    > > [boot loader]
    > > timeout=30
    > > default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS
    > > [operating systems]
    > > multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
    > > Professional" /fastdetect
    > > C:\="Microsoft Windows"
    > >
    > > although the last entry might simply be "Previous MS DOS" When

    you
    > > choose Microsoft Windows from the boot menu, NTLDR knows to look

    in
    > > the root of C: for bootsec.dos and hand over control to whatever

    is in
    > > it. So then boot.sec dos would run and you'd be presented with

    your
    > > earlier options, MS-DOS through Windows 98. So you'd be quintuple
    > > booting (which would be no problem) but boot.ini would only give

    you
    > > two options, the rest being presented to you after bootsec.dos

    ran.
    > >

    >
    MF, Jan 14, 2004
    #3
  4. MF

    MF Guest

    "Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Your post doesn't answer my question.


    you didn't answer my question. did you check for hidden partitions?

    The partition onto which XP is
    > loaded is NOT the 3rd partition, it's the 2nd partition. I'm not

    saying
    > that because of the drive letter assignment, it is physically the

    2nd
    > partition (UNLESS you count the extended partition that "contains"

    the 2
    > thru 6th partitions).


    no, it doesn't count the extended partition as a drive. look at it
    with some other program and see what you can figure out.


    > [Also, for what it's worth this system has only a single hard drive

    and
    > only the motherboard IDE controllers, and the hard drive is on the
    > Primary Master, as usual. It's very straightforward, one drive,

    only
    > the standard motherboard IDE controllers, although there are 3

    optical
    > drives (CD-RW, DVD and DVD-R/RW).]
    >
    >
    >
    > MF wrote:
    > > Because it's the third partition on the first disk on the first
    > > controller in the system. :)
    > > And boot.ini doesn't read or care about drive letters.
    > >
    > > Disk numbering under the "ARC "(Advanced Risk Computing)

    convention is
    > > not necessarily consistent with drive lettering. I;ve got an

    older
    > > computer someone gave me last month off the left in my "lab".

    It's
    > > got a hard disk sitting on top of it, two disks in it, and a CD-RW
    > > drive. It had one HD when I got it and I just sort of stuck the

    other
    > > ones, and the burner, in there -- and the drives were already
    > > partitioned and formatted - to move stuff around on them -- and

    then
    > > had to put a post-it note to remember where the drives (meaning

    drive
    > > letters) were. It says,
    > >
    > > Disk 0: C:, E:, F: --
    > > Disk 1: D:, G:, H:, J: --
    > > Disk 2 (maxtor 3 gig) I:, L:, K:
    > >
    > > 0 and 1 are on the first IDE controller, 2 is on the second (but

    would
    > > read in boot.ini as multi 1 disk 0)
    > >
    > > Boot.ini would present the F drive as multi(0)disk(0)

    [irrelevant,
    > > it's IDE] rdisk(0) partition (3). Whatever OS is on that

    partition,
    > > which I think is NT4 server, that's where NTLDR runs it from,

    after
    > > reading boot.ini. It reads boot.ini, finds that partition and

    runs
    > > the partition boot sector, which includes info on how to run

    whatever
    > > OS is on that partition.
    > >
    > > The label in boot.ini: multi 0, rdisk 0, partition 3, means, to

    read
    > > backwards, third partition on the first hard drive on the first
    > > controller (IDE 1) in the computer..
    > >
    > > But it shows in Explorer as drive F. In other words, what one

    would
    > > think was the fourth partition of all the partitions in the

    system.
    > > That's because it's the last logical drive in the extended

    partition
    > > on that disk.
    > >
    > > I can't know for sure, but would guess that something like that is
    > > happening on your system.
    > >
    > > So the question to ask is not what drive letter is XP on, but what
    > > partition on what physical disk. You can see this graphically in
    > > either Partition Magic or NT(XP) Disk Manager.
    > >
    > > And, as far as I know, the labelling in boot.ini is unalterable --
    > > i.e., if you change that number to something else, it won't

    boot --
    > > whereas the drive lettering (after abc, and even including c
    > > sometimes) can be pretty much anything.
    > >
    > > there is also the possibility of a hidden partition that windows
    > > doesn\t pick up when it's labelling the drives.
    > >
    > > if this doesn't help, do an alt screen print in disk manager and

    cut
    > > out graphic section of the partition layout on the drives and post

    it
    > > up here as a graphic. you can get away with that for a little

    while,
    > > i think, :) , as i did when i was asking about a monitor that was
    > > going bad) and that might help to understand what's going on in

    your
    > > system.
    > >
    > > Also as in your description. of SCSI priorities, remember the
    > > development of the IDE standard. First one channel, than two
    > > channels, IDE 1 and 2, ------ conceived of, in boot ini, as the

    first
    > > and second controllers: multi 0 and multi 1.
    > >
    > > so you have (assuming all are hard drives)
    > > IDE 1 master = multi(0) ... rdisk (0)
    > > IDE 1 slave = multi(0) ... rdisk (1)
    > > IDE 2 master = multi (1)... rdisk (0)
    > > IDE 2 slave = multi (1) .... rdisk(1)
    > >
    > > then the partitions as they are laid out. each logical drive on

    the
    > > disk reads as a partition.
    > >
    > > regards
    > > Mike
    > >
    > > "Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > >
    > >>Ok, but what doesn't make sense is why does my Boot.ini say:
    > >>
    > >>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
    > >>Professional" /fastdetect
    > >>
    > >>When XP is on D: which is the SECOND (not 3rd) partition?

    > >
    > >
    > > the second partion WHERE? in the alphabet or on the physical
    > > configuration of your disks?
    > >
    > >
    > >>Is it counting the Extended partition that contains drives D: thru

    > >
    > > H: as
    > >
    > >>the 2nd partition?

    > >
    > >
    > > Duno - question is, on what disk?
    > >
    > >
    > >>It does work just fine, both for manual choice and automatic

    bootup.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>**************
    > >>>boot.ini sytax is a bit odd. controllers start at 0 for the

    first,
    > >>>disks start at 0 for the first, partitions start at 1
    > >>>all partitions are listed after the controller and disk they

    exist
    > >
    > > on.
    > >
    > >>>Yours means:
    > >>>
    > >>>multi(0) = the first disk controller in the system
    > >>>disk(0) = meaningless, if you have, as I guess, and IDE system
    > >>>rdisk(0)= first ide disk in the system
    > >>>partition(3)=third partition on the disk
    > >>>\Windows= the directory where XPs so called boot files (actually

    > >
    > > the
    > >
    > >>>operating system files called "system files" in all worlds

    outside
    > >>>Redmond) exist.
    > >>>the stuff in quotes= what gets displayed to you
    > >>>C:\= the drive letter and directory (must be root of the first

    > >
    > > disk)
    > >
    > >>>where the bootsec.dos file exists. bootsec.dos is a copy of what

    > >
    > > _was_
    > >
    > >>>the boot sector under Win98. It contains the information to run

    > >
    > > Win98
    > >
    > >>>or any other MS-dos based operating system.
    > >>>
    > >>>Let's say you were quadruple booting DOS, Win 3.1 Win95, and

    > >
    > > Win98,
    > >
    > >>>then put in a new, big drive and installed any version of NT.

    (Say
    > >>>it's XP since XP is NT 5.5!!! Let tradition live!!! Sorry,

    that's
    > >>>unamerican, time to refill the Vodka keg.)
    > >>>
    > >>>You'd end up with something like this:
    > >>>[boot loader]
    > >>>timeout=30
    > >>>default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS
    > >>>[operating systems]
    > >>>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
    > >>>Professional" /fastdetect
    > >>>C:\="Microsoft Windows"
    > >>>
    > >>>although the last entry might simply be "Previous MS DOS" When

    > >
    > > you
    > >
    > >>>choose Microsoft Windows from the boot menu, NTLDR knows to look

    > >
    > > in
    > >
    > >>>the root of C: for bootsec.dos and hand over control to whatever

    > >
    > > is in
    > >
    > >>>it. So then boot.sec dos would run and you'd be presented with

    > >
    > > your
    > >
    > >>>earlier options, MS-DOS through Windows 98. So you'd be quintuple
    > >>>booting (which would be no problem) but boot.ini would only give

    > >
    > > you
    > >
    > >>>two options, the rest being presented to you after bootsec.dos

    > >
    > > ran.
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    MF, Jan 17, 2004
    #4
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  5. Tom MacIntyre

    Re: MSConfig Error

    Tom MacIntyre, Jan 7, 2004, in forum: A+ Certification
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    383
    Tom MacIntyre
    Jan 7, 2004
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