RE: MS security updates or...

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by Robert Foltyn, Nov 5, 2003.

  1. I apologise that I took me so long (Windows users ARE slow) to thank the
    group, and especially some members thereof, for the invaluable help.

    Slow as I am, I must admit that I surprised myself being able to find the
    smartest dude on the net with just a single click of the mouse.
    Billyboi\"@micro$oft.com, it has been so comforting to here your erudite
    comments. And how helpful! I'm truly impressed. Were it not for you, I would
    not solve the problem.



    I understand you have been concerned about where I have been for the past
    three months. Well, maybe it will come as a surprise to you but there are
    people who work and do not have time to watch how the worm market is
    developing. Fortunately, almighty Billybois do it for us and are kind enough
    to share their profound knowledge.



    Sincerely,
     
    Robert Foltyn, Nov 5, 2003
    #1
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  2. Robert Foltyn

    Pete-X Guest

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    "Robert Foltyn" <> wrote in message
    news:bobrca$lf0$...
    > I apologise that I took me so long (Windows users ARE slow) to thank the
    > group, and especially some members thereof, for the invaluable help.


    It's nice that you thanked the group at all. It isn't required, but is
    always appreciated if the effort is made. It's not a case of being slow.
    It's not a case of whether you use Microsoft software or any *nix
    equivalents. Not everyone has the time to keep track of what's going on in
    the virus world, and what the latest scam is. The worm that attacked you in
    this case *was* devious I'll admit. I hope you'll not blindly trust and run
    any attachments from now on, and assume as a rule of thumb, that most
    software vendors do not send 'updates' through email, you normally have to
    visit the official site to get them.

    > Slow as I am, I must admit that I surprised myself being able to find the
    > smartest dude on the net with just a single click of the mouse.
    > Billyboi\"@micro$oft.com, it has been so comforting to here your erudite
    > comments. And how helpful! I'm truly impressed. Were it not for you, I
    > would not solve the problem.


    Welcome to USENET ! :) Plenty of the likes of 'billyboi' around, best get
    used to them. Suffice it to say that people like this would never utter any
    of their troll-spew to you face to face. In this case, it sounds like
    another tedious Linux-troll. These of course are the people who are far
    more blinkered than those they choose to call. It's also some sort of
    blasphemy to these idiots to use and, wait for it, *enjoy* using, *various*
    operating systems, exploiting each respective systems' advantages.

    Robert, you need a healthy dose of paranoia it would seem. Despite what
    people say about it, it is not necessarily a bad thing. Think of paranoia
    as being acutely aware. :) And as for being 'slow', I'm a fully paid up
    member of that club too.

    Cheers.

    Regards,

    Pete.
    - --
    'War doesn't prove who's right, just who's left.'





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    Pete-X, Nov 6, 2003
    #2
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  3. Robert Foltyn

    jayjwa Guest

    Pete-X wrote:
    Not everyone has the time to keep track of what's going on in
    > the virus world, and what the latest scam is. The worm that attacked you in
    > this case *was* devious I'll admit.


    3 months old, on every headline, every news, even spells "news"
    backward, dozens of warnings from everywhere- how devious! how subtle!



    > Welcome to USENET ! :) Plenty of the likes of 'billyboi' around, best get
    > used to them. Suffice it to say that people like this would never utter any
    > of their troll-spew to you face to face. In this case, it sounds like
    > another tedious Linux-troll. These of course are the people who are far
    > more blinkered than those they choose to call.


    What could be worse? A net- Goody-Goody, who is more bothered about a
    post than the person it was fired off at. I can see you with your tights
    and cape now, with a big "SSS" on your chest, for "Super-Safe Surfer"!
    to tha rescue!

    It's also some sort of
    > blasphemy to these idiots to use and, wait for it, *enjoy* using, *various*
    > operating systems, exploiting each respective systems' advantages.


    If you knew anything about computers, you'd see just how rediculous you
    sound trying to defend your virus-infested, worm-laden sorry excuse for
    an OS- why you people continue to run that junk, then come in "security"
    groups and ask how to "make it secure" is beyond me. You can't, it's
    Micro$0ft! And you're paying for it while Bill Gates laughs his ass off
    all the way to the bank, while hard-working people make FREE software
    just as good, and usually better, for the love of what they do so we
    that can realize what we have can us it, instead of letting M$ bleed us
    dry selling us high-priced sofware full of security holes- In fact, it's
    SO insecure, that writting worms and viruses to bring it to it's knees
    is trivial- especially when you have the aid of blissful ignorance on
    your side.
    Let's look at it from a different point- say, for example, I don't know
    what I'm doing with my mail server- I leave it open relay. Days go by,
    then weeks. You, the guy that originally posted, and everyone else get
    tons of spam, 50, 60, 70+ a day, all with MY address as the from field.
    Meanwhile, no other host will deal with mine, because now I'm listed in
    a distributed server boycott list (dsbl.org, etc, etc) and I post to
    this group:

    "I've got this problem, everyone is writing nasty message to me saying I
    spam them, my service provider's pulling the plug, and my machine's is
    listed in a dozen spam-source lists. I don't know why, no clue."

    Now a few of you, full of brotherly-loveness, will probably point out
    what's up, MAYBE offer to help- the other 85% of you will want to kill
    me because now you get an extra 50, 60, 100, 120+ spam a day filling
    your mailbox to the point that new, legit mail is bouncing. Your email
    from your company bounces, you miss that important opportunity and your
    colleage in the next office gets your promotion. Or you have been out of
    work for 4 weeks, when finally a sweet job offer is emailed to you with
    good pay besides- which bounces, and the position goes to the next man.
    Or you miss the invitation to your only son's first wedding, since he
    lives across the country and needed to send mail quickly, he emailed it-
    it bounces. Hmmmm... that's alot of Opps! Sorry guys! That I am
    responsible for. A made-up story? No, not really- this very thing
    happend to many, many people- because Windows machines (which are run by
    and large by the clients of the ISP's, as home-users) were biting it
    daily, causing themselves infact to become virus-cannons and fill up
    mail boxxes. And due to an old exploit which had been patched....by a
    method warned about (previewing active-content email)...by a company and
    it's products KNOWN to be on average insecure....AFTER many, many people
    posted their own warnings....CERT issued warnings....MS themselves
    issued warnings! These worm-laden Windows computers can't hurt the vast
    majority of Unix(like) OS- but they sure did tax our mail servers, cause
    us to move around useless junk, and made it so email became next to
    worthless for awhile. -All because a few someones were "too busy" to
    watch that they didn't become a virus factory? It's bad enough to get
    infected, against your best effort NOT to- but to go and INSTALL a
    virus?! Sorry, no simpathy here. And while I had a good time with it,
    from reading the guy's response I think he now will watch more careful.
    Good. But for some other Net-Guardian-Angle to try to shoot me down for
    saying out loud what nearly everyone was thinking, especially when, as
    hard to take as it may be, I was right- that's just pity-party material
    LAME.


    > Robert, you need a healthy dose of paranoia it would seem.


    No, what you need to do (other than installing Linux ;p ) is have a
    quick glance at www.cert.org - a front-page glance takes about 30
    seconds. www.microsoft.com (I even hate to type that name) will of
    course have warnings, and www.incidents.org- if you have the time, it's
    more in-depth for people that dig this kind of stuff. Isn't 60 secs a
    day of provention (providing you follow the advice and keep you stuff
    updated) worth not seeing all this trouble?

    And as for being 'slow', I'm a fully paid up
    > member of that club too.


    ...Life-time membership



    --
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=Atr2-WBS @ Atr2.Ath.Cx=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    Mod-SSL / PGP Key / CA Onsite
    -{jayjwa} Was I helpful? https://atr2.ath.cx/affero.php
    Contact: https://atr2.ath.cx/cgi-bin/ping-jay.cgi
    or finger, same name & domain, for plan, projects, $ PGP

    Who We Are: https://atr2.ath.cx/who-we-are.html
    =-=-=Linux Tough.Powered By Slackware=-=HTTPS/FTP=-RLF#37=
     
    jayjwa, Nov 7, 2003
    #3
  4. Robert Foltyn

    Pete-X Guest

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    "jayjwa" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Pete-X wrote:
    > Not everyone has the time to keep track of what's going on in
    > > the virus world, and what the latest scam is. The worm that attacked
    > > you in this case *was* devious I'll admit.

    >
    > 3 months old, on every headline, every news, even spells "news"
    > backward, dozens of warnings from everywhere- how devious! how subtle!
    >
    >
    >
    > > Welcome to USENET ! :) Plenty of the likes of 'billyboi' around, best
    > > get used to them. Suffice it to say that people like this would never
    > > utter any of their troll-spew to you face to face. In this case, it
    > > sounds like another tedious Linux-troll. These of course are the people
    > > who are far more blinkered than those they choose to call.

    >
    > What could be worse? A net- Goody-Goody, who is more bothered about a
    > post than the person it was fired off at. I can see you with your tights
    > and cape now, with a big "SSS" on your chest, for "Super-Safe Surfer"!
    > to tha rescue!
    >
    > It's also some sort of
    > > blasphemy to these idiots to use and, wait for it, *enjoy* using,
    > > *various* operating systems, exploiting each respective systems'
    > > advantages.

    >
    > If you knew anything about computers, you'd see just how rediculous you
    > sound trying to defend your virus-infested, worm-laden sorry excuse for
    > an OS- why you people continue to run that junk, then come in "security"
    > groups and ask how to "make it secure" is beyond me. You can't, it's
    > Micro$0ft! And you're paying for it while Bill Gates laughs his ass off
    > all the way to the bank, while hard-working people make FREE software
    > just as good, and usually better, for the love of what they do so we
    > that can realize what we have can us it, instead of letting M$ bleed us
    > dry selling us high-priced sofware full of security holes- In fact, it's
    > SO insecure, that writting worms and viruses to bring it to it's knees
    > is trivial- especially when you have the aid of blissful ignorance on
    > your side.
    > Let's look at it from a different point- say, for example, I don't know
    > what I'm doing with my mail server- I leave it open relay. Days go by,
    > then weeks. You, the guy that originally posted, and everyone else get
    > tons of spam, 50, 60, 70+ a day, all with MY address as the from field.
    > Meanwhile, no other host will deal with mine, because now I'm listed in
    > a distributed server boycott list (dsbl.org, etc, etc) and I post to
    > this group:
    >
    > "I've got this problem, everyone is writing nasty message to me saying I
    > spam them, my service provider's pulling the plug, and my machine's is
    > listed in a dozen spam-source lists. I don't know why, no clue."
    >
    > Now a few of you, full of brotherly-loveness, will probably point out
    > what's up, MAYBE offer to help- the other 85% of you will want to kill
    > me because now you get an extra 50, 60, 100, 120+ spam a day filling
    > your mailbox to the point that new, legit mail is bouncing. Your email
    > from your company bounces, you miss that important opportunity and your
    > colleage in the next office gets your promotion. Or you have been out of
    > work for 4 weeks, when finally a sweet job offer is emailed to you with
    > good pay besides- which bounces, and the position goes to the next man.
    > Or you miss the invitation to your only son's first wedding, since he
    > lives across the country and needed to send mail quickly, he emailed it-
    > it bounces. Hmmmm... that's alot of Opps! Sorry guys! That I am
    > responsible for. A made-up story? No, not really- this very thing
    > happend to many, many people- because Windows machines (which are run by
    > and large by the clients of the ISP's, as home-users) were biting it
    > daily, causing themselves infact to become virus-cannons and fill up
    > mail boxxes. And due to an old exploit which had been patched....by a
    > method warned about (previewing active-content email)...by a company and
    > it's products KNOWN to be on average insecure....AFTER many, many people
    > posted their own warnings....CERT issued warnings....MS themselves
    > issued warnings! These worm-laden Windows computers can't hurt the vast
    > majority of Unix(like) OS- but they sure did tax our mail servers, cause
    > us to move around useless junk, and made it so email became next to
    > worthless for awhile. -All because a few someones were "too busy" to
    > watch that they didn't become a virus factory? It's bad enough to get
    > infected, against your best effort NOT to- but to go and INSTALL a
    > virus?! Sorry, no simpathy here. And while I had a good time with it,
    > from reading the guy's response I think he now will watch more careful.
    > Good. But for some other Net-Guardian-Angle to try to shoot me down for
    > saying out loud what nearly everyone was thinking, especially when, as
    > hard to take as it may be, I was right- that's just pity-party material
    > LAME.
    >
    >
    > > Robert, you need a healthy dose of paranoia it would seem.

    >
    > No, what you need to do (other than installing Linux ;p ) is have a
    > quick glance at www.cert.org - a front-page glance takes about 30
    > seconds. www.microsoft.com (I even hate to type that name) will of
    > course have warnings, and www.incidents.org- if you have the time, it's
    > more in-depth for people that dig this kind of stuff. Isn't 60 secs a
    > day of provention (providing you follow the advice and keep you stuff
    > updated) worth not seeing all this trouble?
    >
    > And as for being 'slow', I'm a fully paid up
    > > member of that club too.

    >
    > ..Life-time membership


    So you're billyboi then ?

    Regards,

    Pete.

    - --
    'War doesn't prove who's right, just who's left.'




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    Pete-X, Nov 7, 2003
    #4
  5. Robert Foltyn

    Guest

    "Pete-X" <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > So you're billyboi then ?


    Can you trim your posts?

    Thanks.
     
    , Nov 7, 2003
    #5
  6. Robert Foltyn

    Pete-X Guest

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Pete-X" <> wrote in message
    > news:<>...
    > > So you're billyboi then ?

    >
    > Can you trim your posts?
    >
    > Thanks.


    Will do.

    Regards,

    Pete.


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    Pete-X, Nov 7, 2003
    #6
  7. Robert Foltyn

    jayjwa Guest

    Pete-X wrote:

    > So you're billyboi then ?


    billyboi = Bill Gates / microsoftsux.suk , giddit?

    One more point, as long as we're beating this thing to death. I wrote to
    an ISP that was bombarding me with mail constantly, Swen copies, and
    told them about it, told them they had a few (many?) Windows users
    infected. I even told'em where to go for good anti-vx software. I
    provided them with my logs to track down the source; that showed their
    MTA sending to mine every 14 minutes, every hour, every day for what
    ended up being a week and a half. It finally stopped, but now today it's
    started again. Because someone is infected and their machine is now a
    virus cannon, firing off copies of that damn thing. If he had taken a
    small precaution, this wouldn't have happend! Why can't people stay
    (even somewhat) informed on what happens on the Internet in terms of
    risks? It's not that hard, you may spare some one else hours, days or
    weeks of trouble by just taking care of your stuff.
    I don't know... when I wrote the first post, I was laughing- you got to
    admit, INSTALLING a virus is very funny. And I don't know why people
    think I'm trying to hide or something. No one uses their full real name
    (almost no one). People have said things far worse to me on usenet than
    what was said here, and maybe I was a bit tough, but my advice to that
    is to either get a thicker shield or a sharper sword- this is usenet;
    people will speak their mind, no-holds-barred. (But I bet that the
    original poster will never install a "mystery" package again without
    thinking.)


    --
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    - {jayjwa} Atr2-WBS
    / GPG Public key is laying around here somewhere. /

    "Help save the InterNet!! Pull the plug on a
    Micro$oft Windows computer today!"
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-
     
    jayjwa, Nov 9, 2003
    #7
  8. Robert Foltyn

    Pete-X Guest

    On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 22:55:46 -0500, jayjwa wrote:

    > Pete-X wrote:
    >
    >> So you're billyboi then ?

    >
    > billyboi = Bill Gates / microsoftsux.suk , giddit?


    That's clever.

    > One more point, as long as we're beating this thing to death.


    No, as long as *you're* beating this to death.

    > Why can't people stay
    > (even somewhat) informed on what happens on the Internet in terms of
    > risks? It's not that hard, you may spare some one else hours, days or
    > weeks of trouble by just taking care of your stuff.


    Why should they ? Who are you to tell them what to do with their computers
    ? Just because *you* are glued to your PC, doesn't mean everyone else is.
    No one cares about your 'info-crusades' anyway, especially if they're
    peppered with the same self-righteousness that you so often display here.
    Taking the piss out of someone because they're not glued to their PC like
    you, was a cheap shot, and totally uncalled for. Quit tarring (no pun
    intended) everyone with your brush and accept that some people just want
    to use their computers very occasionally, and are going to make mistakes.

    If you're so knowledgeable, why didn't you take the time to help the guy,
    instead of sounding off like an impotent jerk ? Of course, you just
    couldn't resist using the same old tedious Linux-troll shite, which only
    makes you look like a daft twat, and informs or helps no one.

    Linux does do some pretty cool things, but do you really believe that the
    tired old 'pro-linux-****-everything-else' rants are doing anyone any good
    ? Or doing anything other than getting you plonked more times than
    alkaseltzer ?


    > I don't know... when I wrote the first post, I was laughing- you got to
    > admit, INSTALLING a virus is very funny.


    I think you should get out more.

    >And I don't know why people
    > think I'm trying to hide or something. No one uses their full real name
    > (almost no one). People have said things far worse to me on usenet than
    > what was said here, and maybe I was a bit tough, but my advice to that
    > is to either get a thicker shield or a sharper sword- this is usenet;
    > people will speak their mind, no-holds-barred. (But I bet that the
    > original poster will never install a "mystery" package again without
    > thinking.)


    If that is the case, it had nothing to do with any of your input, or lack
    thereof. I don't doubt people slag you off a lot, and I'm sure that you
    instigate a lot of it. No one thinks you're trying to hide, and I doubt
    anyone really gives a **** about this thread this far down, except for
    mild entertainment purposes.

    Pete.

    --
    War doesn't prove who's right, just who's left.

    Fanatics of any religion, whilst eager to inform you of their
    chosen path, rarely want to hear about yours.
     
    Pete-X, Nov 9, 2003
    #8
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