Re: MCSD worth

Discussion in 'MCSD' started by Cenk Butunley, Jul 11, 2003.

  1. Some companies look for MCSD certified developers even in their
    advertisments and if they are preparing to be a ms or ms gold partner they
    need at least 4 people certified.

    And I don't know why people are continously telling people: MCSD is
    worthless. Of course experience is the primary factor, but MCSD
    certification is as important as a bachelors degree in Software Eng for
    employers and agencies.

    So please stop diverting people away from their path.

    "Kline Sphere" <T> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >Knowledge is power.

    > No, money is.
     
    Cenk Butunley, Jul 11, 2003
    #1
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  2. Cenk Butunley

    John S Guest

    You are a complete idiot if you believe any Microsoft certification is worth
    anything in the real world.
    As for ms partners, well there you go, another pointless title (BTW to be an
    ms partner it's 2 people not 4). Any one man his dog/wife/boyfriend can
    become one. Thankfully many of them are going bang.

    "Cenk Butunley" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Some companies look for MCSD certified developers even in their
    > advertisments and if they are preparing to be a ms or ms gold partner they
    > need at least 4 people certified.
    >
    > And I don't know why people are continously telling people: MCSD is
    > worthless. Of course experience is the primary factor, but MCSD
    > certification is as important as a bachelors degree in Software Eng for
    > employers and agencies.
    >
    > So please stop diverting people away from their path.
    >
    > "Kline Sphere" <T> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > >Knowledge is power.

    > > No, money is.

    >
    >
     
    John S, Jul 11, 2003
    #2
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  3. So it's not worth anything in the world, why are there 10000 MCSEs and 5000
    MCADs.

    You are an idiot, if you're studying for such a worthless thing
    "John S" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > You are a complete idiot if you believe any Microsoft certification is

    worth
    > anything in the real world.
    > As for ms partners, well there you go, another pointless title (BTW to be

    an
    > ms partner it's 2 people not 4). Any one man his dog/wife/boyfriend can
    > become one. Thankfully many of them are going bang.
    >
    > "Cenk Butunley" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Some companies look for MCSD certified developers even in their
    > > advertisments and if they are preparing to be a ms or ms gold partner

    they
    > > need at least 4 people certified.
    > >
    > > And I don't know why people are continously telling people: MCSD is
    > > worthless. Of course experience is the primary factor, but MCSD
    > > certification is as important as a bachelors degree in Software Eng for
    > > employers and agencies.
    > >
    > > So please stop diverting people away from their path.
    > >
    > > "Kline Sphere" <T> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > >Knowledge is power.
    > > > No, money is.

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Cenk Butunley, Jul 11, 2003
    #3
  4. Cenk Butunley

    Jamie Guest

    you have posted to the wrong newsgroup my friend....

    that one should have went to alt.humour.jokes

    or alt.i.am.stupid


    "Cenk Butunley" <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > Some companies look for MCSD certified developers even in their
    > advertisments and if they are preparing to be a ms or ms gold partner they
    > need at least 4 people certified.
    >
    > And I don't know why people are continously telling people: MCSD is
    > worthless. Of course experience is the primary factor, but MCSD
    > certification is as important as a bachelors degree in Software Eng for
    > employers and agencies.
    >
    > So please stop diverting people away from their path.
    >
    > "Kline Sphere" <T> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > >Knowledge is power.

    > > No, money is.
     
    Jamie, Jul 11, 2003
    #4
  5. Cenk Butunley

    GVaught Guest

    Hmm.... Alan Are you certified?

    Have you taken any of the tests? If you consider $9,000 dollars cheap and
    $100+ per test cheap, then i concede you are correct on that point. I agree
    you can get classes completed within maybe six weeks to 9 weeks. However, if
    you fail a test, I believe you have to wait 6 months before testing again. I
    could be wrong on this and will stand corrected if I am wrong.

    Considering 99% of the jobs I've been looking at lately requiring
    programming knowledge; 99% are asking for an MCSD and those requesting
    Networking knowledge are asking for MCSE certs. Now, why is that, Mr. Davis?
    My Master's in Computer Information Systems won't fly...... Hmm worthless...
    You, must be another Liberal or Democrat....

    "Alan Davis" <.> wrote in message
    news:OT$...
    > There are considerably more than 10000 mcse's.
    >
    > The reason there are so many is because the certification process is
    > very easy, relatively cheap to complete, can be completed in a short
    > space of time and no experience is required. There is also the 'small'
    > matter that it is easy to cheat, which as also helped to undermine the
    > certs.
    >
    > Being certified unfortunately means nothing as it proves nothing. Having
    > said that, if one gets a pay raise, finds a job/work or keeps a job by
    > having a cert or two, that peason may feel different. For most, it won't
    > help at at.
    >
    >
    > Cenk Butunley wrote:
    > > So it's not worth anything in the world, why are there 10000 MCSEs and

    5000
    > > MCADs.
    > >
    > > You are an idiot, if you're studying for such a worthless thing
    > > "John S" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > >
    > >>You are a complete idiot if you believe any Microsoft certification is

    > >
    > > worth
    > >
    > >>anything in the real world.
    > >>As for ms partners, well there you go, another pointless title (BTW to

    be
    > >
    > > an
    > >
    > >>ms partner it's 2 people not 4). Any one man his dog/wife/boyfriend can
    > >>become one. Thankfully many of them are going bang.
    > >>
    > >>"Cenk Butunley" <> wrote in message
    > >>news:...
    > >>
    > >>>Some companies look for MCSD certified developers even in their
    > >>>advertisments and if they are preparing to be a ms or ms gold partner

    > >
    > > they
    > >
    > >>>need at least 4 people certified.
    > >>>
    > >>>And I don't know why people are continously telling people: MCSD is
    > >>>worthless. Of course experience is the primary factor, but MCSD
    > >>>certification is as important as a bachelors degree in Software Eng for
    > >>>employers and agencies.
    > >>>
    > >>>So please stop diverting people away from their path.
    > >>>
    > >>>"Kline Sphere" <T> wrote in message
    > >>>news:...
    > >>>
    > >>>>>Knowledge is power.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>No, money is.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>

    > >
    > >

    >
     
    GVaught, Jul 12, 2003
    #5
  6. Cenk Butunley

    Alan Davis Guest

    > Hmm.... Alan Are you certified?

    Yes. Microsoft (22 exams) as well as other certs.

    What this '$9,000 dollars'? If people want to pay for boot camp training
    courses, that's fine, to me it's a waste of money. If people work with
    the product day in day out there is no need shell out any money. If
    people want to use the microsoft certification process as an entry into
    the profession, well good luck to them, it is not likely to happen
    though. The only winners in the 'certification process' are the so
    called test providers and the publishers of worthless mcse/mcsd training
    books.

    > I believe you have to wait 6 months before testing again.


    Not true. Don't know (or care) what the figure is, but it's no more than
    14 days.

    > Considering 99% of the jobs I've been looking at lately requiring
    > programming knowledge;


    Only 99%? I would thought 100%. I don't ever remember seeing a job role
    which involves 'programming' saying 'no experience necessary'.

    > 99% are asking for an MCSD and those requesting
    > Networking knowledge are asking for MCSE certs. Now, why is that, Mr.
    > Davis?


    Certainly nowhere near the case in the UK. Although there are more
    requirements for mcse's than mcsd's. Problely 20% mcse, 5% mcsd.

    > My Master's in Computer Information Systems won't fly


    Mine does, along with 15 years real world experience.

    > You, must be another Liberal or Democrat....


    Fortunately neither - I'm a Brit.
     
    Alan Davis, Jul 12, 2003
    #6
  7. Your words are really encouraging! thanks!

    "Cenk Butunley" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Some companies look for MCSD certified developers even in their
    > advertisments and if they are preparing to be a ms or ms gold partner they
    > need at least 4 people certified.
    >
    > And I don't know why people are continously telling people: MCSD is
    > worthless. Of course experience is the primary factor, but MCSD
    > certification is as important as a bachelors degree in Software Eng for
    > employers and agencies.
    >
    > So please stop diverting people away from their path.
    >
    > "Kline Sphere" <T> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > >Knowledge is power.

    > > No, money is.

    >
    >
     
    Shanmuga Raja, Jul 12, 2003
    #7
  8. Cenk Butunley

    John S Guest

    What are you? An idiot or just plain stupid -Boy.

    "GVaught" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hmm... John S: Are you a democrat or a Liberal?
    >
    > "John S" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > You are a complete idiot if you believe any Microsoft certification is

    > worth
    > > anything in the real world.
    > > As for ms partners, well there you go, another pointless title (BTW to

    be
    > an
    > > ms partner it's 2 people not 4). Any one man his dog/wife/boyfriend can
    > > become one. Thankfully many of them are going bang.
    > >
    > > "Cenk Butunley" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > Some companies look for MCSD certified developers even in their
    > > > advertisments and if they are preparing to be a ms or ms gold partner

    > they
    > > > need at least 4 people certified.
    > > >
    > > > And I don't know why people are continously telling people: MCSD is
    > > > worthless. Of course experience is the primary factor, but MCSD
    > > > certification is as important as a bachelors degree in Software Eng

    for
    > > > employers and agencies.
    > > >
    > > > So please stop diverting people away from their path.
    > > >
    > > > "Kline Sphere" <T> wrote in message
    > > > news:...
    > > > > >Knowledge is power.
    > > > > No, money is.
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    John S, Jul 12, 2003
    #8
  9. Cenk Butunley

    GVaught Guest

    "Alan Davis" <.> wrote in message
    news:...
    > > Hmm.... Alan Are you certified?

    >
    > Yes. Microsoft (22 exams) as well as other certs.
    > Good for you...... The way you were knocking them, you gave me a

    different impression. I stand corrected.
    >
    > What this '$9,000 dollars'? If people want to pay for boot camp training
    > courses, that's fine, to me it's a waste of money. If people work with
    > the product day in day out there is no need shell out any money. If
    > people want to use the microsoft certification process as an entry into
    > the profession, well good luck to them, it is not likely to happen
    > though. The only winners in the 'certification process' are the so
    > called test providers and the publishers of worthless mcse/mcsd training
    > books.
    >


    ** I agree that boot camps are not the way to go; however those who
    want to get the quick fix usually go
    this route. Years of experience will definitely aid in passing
    the exams and eliminate the need for special books and boot camps.

    > > I believe you have to wait 6 months before testing again; maybe this

    was a requirement imposed on some boot camp facilities here in the U.S.
    >
    > Not true. Don't know (or care) what the figure is, but it's no more than
    > 14 days.


    ** I stand corrected.
    >
    > > Considering 99% of the jobs I've been looking at lately requiring
    > > programming knowledge;

    >
    > Only 99%? I would thought 100%. I don't ever remember seeing a job role
    > which involves 'programming' saying 'no experience necessary'.


    *** You misunderstood this line. Yes all the positions required
    programming experience, which I have in addition to my degree. What I meant
    is they also were requiring MCSD certs, which I don't have. This alone has
    prevented me from getting interviews although I'm more than capable of
    performing in the position.
    >
    > > 99% are asking for an MCSD and those requesting
    > > Networking knowledge are asking for MCSE certs. Now, why is that, Mr.
    > > Davis?

    >
    > Certainly nowhere near the case in the UK. Although there are more
    > requirements for mcse's than mcsd's. Problely 20% mcse, 5% mcsd.
    >
    > > My Master's in Computer Information Systems won't fly

    >
    > Mine does, along with 15 years real world experience.

    ** My Master's w/ 12 years of experience should produce results;
    however as soon as a company specifies MCSD as a requirement, we are
    ignored. This means someone with an MCSD/Bachelor's or no degree/1 year of
    experience beats a Master's w/12 years and no MCSD.
    >
    > > You, must be another Liberal or Democrat....

    >
    > Fortunately neither - I'm a Brit.

    ** Thank goodness... huh!
    ** I'm neither also.
    >
     
    GVaught, Jul 12, 2003
    #9
  10. Cenk Butunley

    GVaught Guest

    Hmm. struck a nerve......

    "John S" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > What are you? An idiot or just plain stupid -Boy.
    >
    > "GVaught" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Hmm... John S: Are you a democrat or a Liberal?
    > >
    > > "John S" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > You are a complete idiot if you believe any Microsoft certification is

    > > worth
    > > > anything in the real world.
    > > > As for ms partners, well there you go, another pointless title (BTW to

    > be
    > > an
    > > > ms partner it's 2 people not 4). Any one man his dog/wife/boyfriend

    can
    > > > become one. Thankfully many of them are going bang.
    > > >
    > > > "Cenk Butunley" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:...
    > > > > Some companies look for MCSD certified developers even in their
    > > > > advertisments and if they are preparing to be a ms or ms gold

    partner
    > > they
    > > > > need at least 4 people certified.
    > > > >
    > > > > And I don't know why people are continously telling people: MCSD is
    > > > > worthless. Of course experience is the primary factor, but MCSD
    > > > > certification is as important as a bachelors degree in Software Eng

    > for
    > > > > employers and agencies.
    > > > >
    > > > > So please stop diverting people away from their path.
    > > > >
    > > > > "Kline Sphere" <T> wrote in message
    > > > > news:...
    > > > > > >Knowledge is power.
    > > > > > No, money is.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    GVaught, Jul 12, 2003
    #10
  11. Cenk Butunley

    John S Guest

    You must be one these stupid people that responds to the "get rich" scams.

    Certs count for nothing - period.

    "Shanmuga Raja" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Your words are really encouraging! thanks!
    >
    > "Cenk Butunley" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Some companies look for MCSD certified developers even in their
    > > advertisments and if they are preparing to be a ms or ms gold partner

    they
    > > need at least 4 people certified.
    > >
    > > And I don't know why people are continously telling people: MCSD is
    > > worthless. Of course experience is the primary factor, but MCSD
    > > certification is as important as a bachelors degree in Software Eng for
    > > employers and agencies.
    > >
    > > So please stop diverting people away from their path.
    > >
    > > "Kline Sphere" <T> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > >Knowledge is power.
    > > > No, money is.

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    John S, Jul 13, 2003
    #11
  12. Cenk Butunley

    Alan Davis Guest

    > ** My Master's w/ 12 years of experience should produce results;
    > however as soon as a company specifies MCSD as a requirement, we are
    > ignored. This means someone with an MCSD/Bachelor's or no degree/1
    > year of
    > experience beats a Master's w/12 years and no MCSD.


    Not from the planet I come from. I would not have thought the States
    were that different from the UK in terms of IT employment requirements.
     
    Alan Davis, Jul 13, 2003
    #12
  13. Cenk Butunley

    Alan Davis Guest

    > Many U.S. companies use H1B visa workers as often as possible
    > to save money.


    That's business for you. However it often does not save money.

    GVaught wrote:

    > I'm not sure how much this is going on now since 9-11, but many U.S.
    > companies ask for several requirements and then claims they can't find
    > 'qualified' workers because they can't find someone with every thing the
    > asked for in a candidate. This is so they can hire from outside the U.S.;
    > mainly India. Many U.S. companies use H1B visa workers as often as possible
    > to save money.
    >
    > "Alan Davis" <.> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>>** My Master's w/ 12 years of experience should produce results;

    >>
    >> > however as soon as a company specifies MCSD as a requirement, we are
    >> > ignored. This means someone with an MCSD/Bachelor's or no degree/1
    >> > year of
    >> > experience beats a Master's w/12 years and no MCSD.

    >>
    >>Not from the planet I come from. I would not have thought the States
    >>were that different from the UK in terms of IT employment requirements.
    >>

    >
    >
    >
     
    Alan Davis, Jul 15, 2003
    #13
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