Re: Macros

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by PeterN, Mar 17, 2013.

  1. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    PeterN, Mar 17, 2013
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. On 16/03/2013 8:52 PM, PeterN wrote:
    > On 3/16/2013 8:24 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
    >>
    >> http://memolition.com/2013/03/15/the-very-best-of-macro-photography-27-pictures/
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Really neat.
    > They are a classic example of really nice images, that would not do well
    > in a camera club competition. I wish I had taken them.
    >


    Curious why you say they would NOT do well in a camera club? Just
    wondering?

    --
    This space intentionally left blank.
    Usenet Account, Mar 17, 2013
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    On 3/16/2013 9:10 PM, Usenet Account wrote:
    > On 16/03/2013 8:52 PM, PeterN wrote:
    >> On 3/16/2013 8:24 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
    >>>
    >>> http://memolition.com/2013/03/15/the-very-best-of-macro-photography-27-pictures/
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Really neat.
    >> They are a classic example of really nice images, that would not do well
    >> in a camera club competition. I wish I had taken them.
    >>

    >
    > Curious why you say they would NOT do well in a camera club? Just
    > wondering?
    >


    Many judges would say: the hot spots are distracting; parts of the
    creatures are outside the image area, etc.
    Please note the above is not my impression, but is intended to be a
    commentary of the weaknesses of camera club judging. I have often said
    that Cartier-Bresson, would not do well in camera club competitions.


    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, Mar 17, 2013
    #3
  4. PeterN

    Rob Guest

    On 17/03/2013 12:36 PM, PeterN wrote:
    > On 3/16/2013 9:10 PM, Usenet Account wrote:
    >> On 16/03/2013 8:52 PM, PeterN wrote:
    >>> On 3/16/2013 8:24 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://memolition.com/2013/03/15/the-very-best-of-macro-photography-27-pictures/
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Really neat.
    >>> They are a classic example of really nice images, that would not do well
    >>> in a camera club competition. I wish I had taken them.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Curious why you say they would NOT do well in a camera club? Just
    >> wondering?
    >>

    >
    > Many judges would say: the hot spots are distracting; parts of the
    > creatures are outside the image area, etc.
    > Please note the above is not my impression, but is intended to be a
    > commentary of the weaknesses of camera club judging. I have often said
    > that Cartier-Bresson, would not do well in camera club competitions.
    >
    >

    Agree with your comments, camera club judges are full of themselves on
    the night, nit picking, they can't correctly evaluate the elements of an
    image and ridicule the content. As an example some time ago had a image
    evaluated and the comment was the horizon was not straight, funny about
    that it had lens curvature. Another example was architecture, where
    verticals should be vertical or over over emphasised, looking up at a
    tall building, the judge picked on one as not vertical which should have
    been, but there were 2 others out of whack as well, but no criticism of
    the fact but given awards!

    I have even pointed out plagiarism of images and part images, to the
    committee, ripped off the web, and they have condoned the use of such
    images, to the extent where the image has been best in section. I was
    being a pain in the arse to them.

    I'm sure other images being presented in competitions, were not setup or
    photographed by the author, as they didn't show a consistent standard of
    such photographer compare with there other submissions.

    What does amaze me is the judges will critique an image but can't
    explain why or give their opinion how to rectify the perceived fault.

    One particular night there was this judge who insisted using "Um" all
    the time, this irritates me as its them catching up with their thoughts,
    anyhow this was so annoying that I started to count the number of time
    she used "Um" and the intervals between. Results basically, 700, at 20
    second intervals, yep - over 3 hour period.
    What a long boring night that turned out to be.

    Camera clubs live in there own little world and stay in a rut.
    Rob, Mar 17, 2013
    #4
  5. PeterN

    Tony Cooper Guest

    On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 15:50:27 +1100, Rob <> wrote:

    >On 17/03/2013 12:36 PM, PeterN wrote:
    >> On 3/16/2013 9:10 PM, Usenet Account wrote:
    >>> On 16/03/2013 8:52 PM, PeterN wrote:
    >>>> On 3/16/2013 8:24 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://memolition.com/2013/03/15/the-very-best-of-macro-photography-27-pictures/
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Really neat.
    >>>> They are a classic example of really nice images, that would not do well
    >>>> in a camera club competition. I wish I had taken them.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Curious why you say they would NOT do well in a camera club? Just
    >>> wondering?
    >>>

    >>
    >> Many judges would say: the hot spots are distracting; parts of the
    >> creatures are outside the image area, etc.
    >> Please note the above is not my impression, but is intended to be a
    >> commentary of the weaknesses of camera club judging. I have often said
    >> that Cartier-Bresson, would not do well in camera club competitions.
    >>
    >>

    >Agree with your comments, camera club judges are full of themselves on
    >the night, nit picking, they can't correctly evaluate the elements of an
    >image and ridicule the content. As an example some time ago had a image
    >evaluated and the comment was the horizon was not straight, funny about
    >that it had lens curvature. Another example was architecture, where
    >verticals should be vertical or over over emphasised, looking up at a
    >tall building, the judge picked on one as not vertical which should have
    >been, but there were 2 others out of whack as well, but no criticism of
    >the fact but given awards!
    >
    >I have even pointed out plagiarism of images and part images, to the
    >committee, ripped off the web, and they have condoned the use of such
    >images, to the extent where the image has been best in section. I was
    >being a pain in the arse to them.
    >
    >I'm sure other images being presented in competitions, were not setup or
    >photographed by the author, as they didn't show a consistent standard of
    >such photographer compare with there other submissions.
    >
    >What does amaze me is the judges will critique an image but can't
    >explain why or give their opinion how to rectify the perceived fault.
    >
    >One particular night there was this judge who insisted using "Um" all
    >the time, this irritates me as its them catching up with their thoughts,
    >anyhow this was so annoying that I started to count the number of time
    >she used "Um" and the intervals between. Results basically, 700, at 20
    >second intervals, yep - over 3 hour period.
    >What a long boring night that turned out to be.
    >
    >Camera clubs live in there own little world and stay in a rut.


    The more I read about other people's views and comments about their
    camera clubs, the more I feel that the camera club I belong to is
    doing competitions the right way. I don't always agree with the
    judge's critiques, or always agree with the first place choices, but
    the judges do a good job of explaining why a photo is rated high or
    low and what should have been done if the rating is low.

    Maybe it's because it's a large club with an average attendance of 75
    to 100 members so the pool to draw from for the in-house judges (two
    in-house and one outsider for each competition night) or maybe it's
    because the judges are given the submissions several days before the
    competition night and thus have time to prepare their critiques.

    The only real objection I have to the competitions is that submissions
    are not required to be "fresh". So, instead of shooting to the
    mandate, most members pull shots from their archives and the image
    might have been taken several years ago.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
    Tony Cooper, Mar 17, 2013
    #5
  6. PeterN

    Rob Guest

    On 17/03/2013 5:00 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
    > On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 15:50:27 +1100, Rob <> wrote:
    >
    >> On 17/03/2013 12:36 PM, PeterN wrote:
    >>> On 3/16/2013 9:10 PM, Usenet Account wrote:
    >>>> On 16/03/2013 8:52 PM, PeterN wrote:
    >>>>> On 3/16/2013 8:24 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> http://memolition.com/2013/03/15/the-very-best-of-macro-photography-27-pictures/
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Really neat.
    >>>>> They are a classic example of really nice images, that would not do well
    >>>>> in a camera club competition. I wish I had taken them.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Curious why you say they would NOT do well in a camera club? Just
    >>>> wondering?
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Many judges would say: the hot spots are distracting; parts of the
    >>> creatures are outside the image area, etc.
    >>> Please note the above is not my impression, but is intended to be a
    >>> commentary of the weaknesses of camera club judging. I have often said
    >>> that Cartier-Bresson, would not do well in camera club competitions.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Agree with your comments, camera club judges are full of themselves on
    >> the night, nit picking, they can't correctly evaluate the elements of an
    >> image and ridicule the content. As an example some time ago had a image
    >> evaluated and the comment was the horizon was not straight, funny about
    >> that it had lens curvature. Another example was architecture, where
    >> verticals should be vertical or over over emphasised, looking up at a
    >> tall building, the judge picked on one as not vertical which should have
    >> been, but there were 2 others out of whack as well, but no criticism of
    >> the fact but given awards!
    >>
    >> I have even pointed out plagiarism of images and part images, to the
    >> committee, ripped off the web, and they have condoned the use of such
    >> images, to the extent where the image has been best in section. I was
    >> being a pain in the arse to them.
    >>
    >> I'm sure other images being presented in competitions, were not setup or
    >> photographed by the author, as they didn't show a consistent standard of
    >> such photographer compare with there other submissions.
    >>
    >> What does amaze me is the judges will critique an image but can't
    >> explain why or give their opinion how to rectify the perceived fault.
    >>
    >> One particular night there was this judge who insisted using "Um" all
    >> the time, this irritates me as its them catching up with their thoughts,
    >> anyhow this was so annoying that I started to count the number of time
    >> she used "Um" and the intervals between. Results basically, 700, at 20
    >> second intervals, yep - over 3 hour period.
    >> What a long boring night that turned out to be.
    >>
    >> Camera clubs live in there own little world and stay in a rut.

    >
    > The more I read about other people's views and comments about their
    > camera clubs, the more I feel that the camera club I belong to is
    > doing competitions the right way. I don't always agree with the
    > judge's critiques, or always agree with the first place choices, but
    > the judges do a good job of explaining why a photo is rated high or
    > low and what should have been done if the rating is low.
    >
    > Maybe it's because it's a large club with an average attendance of 75
    > to 100 members so the pool to draw from for the in-house judges (two
    > in-house and one outsider for each competition night) or maybe it's
    > because the judges are given the submissions several days before the
    > competition night and thus have time to prepare their critiques.
    >
    > The only real objection I have to the competitions is that submissions
    > are not required to be "fresh". So, instead of shooting to the
    > mandate, most members pull shots from their archives and the image
    > might have been taken several years ago.
    >
    >


    Your club must be doing something right to have so many in attendance
    making for an interesting participation for its members

    What you are saying seems quite good and the combination of judging
    keeps the standard very high.

    Giving judges submissions in advance is an excellent way as the judges
    are not over whelmed by so much to comment on.
    Rob, Mar 17, 2013
    #6
  7. Tony Cooper <> wrote:

    > The only real objection I have to the competitions is that submissions
    > are not required to be "fresh". So, instead of shooting to the
    > mandate, most members pull shots from their archives and the image
    > might have been taken several years ago.


    So you're basically saying you should have to re-shoot your
    own best shoots if you want them to participate?

    -Wolfgang
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Mar 17, 2013
    #7
  8. PeterN

    Tony Cooper Guest

    On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 17:46:41 +1100, Rob <> wrote:

    >On 17/03/2013 5:00 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
    >> On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 15:50:27 +1100, Rob <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 17/03/2013 12:36 PM, PeterN wrote:
    >>>> On 3/16/2013 9:10 PM, Usenet Account wrote:
    >>>>> On 16/03/2013 8:52 PM, PeterN wrote:
    >>>>>> On 3/16/2013 8:24 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> http://memolition.com/2013/03/15/the-very-best-of-macro-photography-27-pictures/
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Really neat.
    >>>>>> They are a classic example of really nice images, that would not do well
    >>>>>> in a camera club competition. I wish I had taken them.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Curious why you say they would NOT do well in a camera club? Just
    >>>>> wondering?
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Many judges would say: the hot spots are distracting; parts of the
    >>>> creatures are outside the image area, etc.
    >>>> Please note the above is not my impression, but is intended to be a
    >>>> commentary of the weaknesses of camera club judging. I have often said
    >>>> that Cartier-Bresson, would not do well in camera club competitions.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> Agree with your comments, camera club judges are full of themselves on
    >>> the night, nit picking, they can't correctly evaluate the elements of an
    >>> image and ridicule the content. As an example some time ago had a image
    >>> evaluated and the comment was the horizon was not straight, funny about
    >>> that it had lens curvature. Another example was architecture, where
    >>> verticals should be vertical or over over emphasised, looking up at a
    >>> tall building, the judge picked on one as not vertical which should have
    >>> been, but there were 2 others out of whack as well, but no criticism of
    >>> the fact but given awards!
    >>>
    >>> I have even pointed out plagiarism of images and part images, to the
    >>> committee, ripped off the web, and they have condoned the use of such
    >>> images, to the extent where the image has been best in section. I was
    >>> being a pain in the arse to them.
    >>>
    >>> I'm sure other images being presented in competitions, were not setup or
    >>> photographed by the author, as they didn't show a consistent standard of
    >>> such photographer compare with there other submissions.
    >>>
    >>> What does amaze me is the judges will critique an image but can't
    >>> explain why or give their opinion how to rectify the perceived fault.
    >>>
    >>> One particular night there was this judge who insisted using "Um" all
    >>> the time, this irritates me as its them catching up with their thoughts,
    >>> anyhow this was so annoying that I started to count the number of time
    >>> she used "Um" and the intervals between. Results basically, 700, at 20
    >>> second intervals, yep - over 3 hour period.
    >>> What a long boring night that turned out to be.
    >>>
    >>> Camera clubs live in there own little world and stay in a rut.

    >>
    >> The more I read about other people's views and comments about their
    >> camera clubs, the more I feel that the camera club I belong to is
    >> doing competitions the right way. I don't always agree with the
    >> judge's critiques, or always agree with the first place choices, but
    >> the judges do a good job of explaining why a photo is rated high or
    >> low and what should have been done if the rating is low.
    >>
    >> Maybe it's because it's a large club with an average attendance of 75
    >> to 100 members so the pool to draw from for the in-house judges (two
    >> in-house and one outsider for each competition night) or maybe it's
    >> because the judges are given the submissions several days before the
    >> competition night and thus have time to prepare their critiques.
    >>
    >> The only real objection I have to the competitions is that submissions
    >> are not required to be "fresh". So, instead of shooting to the
    >> mandate, most members pull shots from their archives and the image
    >> might have been taken several years ago.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Your club must be doing something right to have so many in attendance
    >making for an interesting participation for its members
    >
    >What you are saying seems quite good and the combination of judging
    >keeps the standard very high.
    >
    >Giving judges submissions in advance is an excellent way as the judges
    >are not over whelmed by so much to comment on.
    >

    Yes, advance preparation is a good feature for judges. Entries are
    submitted online one week in advance. They are then sent to the
    judges in password-protected files and the judges review them at home,
    grade them, and prepare their critiques. I notice, during the
    critiques, that judges read from their pre-prepared notes. Scores are
    an average of the three judge's individual scores. Each entry is
    commented on by only one judge (rotating through the three), but the
    other two can add a short comment if they want to.

    All competitions are flawed in that all judges have personal biases
    and preferences for certain elements in a photo. Judging is
    subjective. But, the prize money for first place is a $25 gift card
    from a sponsor, so it's not that big a deal other than the
    recognition.
    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
    Tony Cooper, Mar 17, 2013
    #8
  9. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    On 3/17/2013 12:50 AM, Rob wrote:

    <snip>

    >
    > Camera clubs live in there own little world and stay in a rut.


    Not all. Just some of the judges. My club has 60 members. On competition
    nights we average about 40. On other nights, attendance varies, but
    rarely less than 30. We have filed trips every Sunday. about 15 to 20
    show up. Some just come for breakfast, where we get into discussions.
    About two weeks ago two of our members gave a presentation of shooting
    butterflies. Today, we went to a butterfly exhibit. (Yes it was
    indoors.) On my recent trip to FL, I was kept busy almost every day,
    shooting with members oaf my club.


    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, Mar 17, 2013
    #9
  10. PeterN

    Tony Cooper Guest

    On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 14:14:15 -0400, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    >On 3/17/2013 12:50 AM, Rob wrote:
    >
    ><snip>
    >
    >>
    >> Camera clubs live in there own little world and stay in a rut.

    >
    >Not all. Just some of the judges. My club has 60 members. On competition
    >nights we average about 40. On other nights, attendance varies, but
    >rarely less than 30. We have filed trips every Sunday. about 15 to 20
    >show up. Some just come for breakfast, where we get into discussions.
    >About two weeks ago two of our members gave a presentation of shooting
    >butterflies. Today, we went to a butterfly exhibit. (Yes it was
    >indoors.) On my recent trip to FL, I was kept busy almost every day,
    >shooting with members oaf my club.


    A second club I belong to has about 40-50 members. I joined them
    yesterday for a field trip to a car show. I'll stop and take a shot
    or two at a car show, but I'm not a big fan. Too many people standing
    around the cars, the sun is never right for the shot I want, and I've
    never been able to get my circular polarizer to do its thing.

    I went for the social aspect. Eight of us had a meal together and
    chatted about photography. This smaller club is more social than the
    larger club I belong to, but the larger club also has field trips.

    Here's why I don't like car shows:

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64147677/2013-03-16-75.jpg

    All the people, the background, and the signs in the window of this
    Packard. I do shoot some close-up of bits and pieces of cars to avoid
    the problem. This one's a 1939 Ford:

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64147677/2013-03-16-88.jpg


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
    Tony Cooper, Mar 17, 2013
    #10
  11. PeterN

    John Turco Guest

    On 3/17/2013 1:14 PM, PeterN wrote:
    > On 3/17/2013 12:50 AM, Rob wrote:
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >>
    >> Camera clubs live in there own little world and stay in a rut.

    >
    > Not all. Just some of the judges. My club has 60 members. On competition
    > nights we average about 40. On other nights, attendance varies, but
    > rarely less than 30. We have filed trips every Sunday. about 15 to 20
    > show up. Some just come for breakfast, where we get into discussions.
    > About two weeks ago two of our members gave a presentation of shooting
    > butterflies. Today, we went to a butterfly exhibit. (Yes it was
    > indoors.) On my recent trip to FL, I was kept busy almost every day,
    > shooting with members oaf my club.



    Who are these oafish members of your camera club, and why haven't
    they been kicked out?

    John
    John Turco, Mar 17, 2013
    #11
  12. PeterN

    Trevor Guest

    "Rob" <> wrote in message
    news:ki3hva$acq$...
    >>> Curious why you say they would NOT do well in a camera club? Just
    >>> wondering?

    >>
    >> Many judges would say: the hot spots are distracting; parts of the
    >> creatures are outside the image area, etc.
    >> Please note the above is not my impression, but is intended to be a
    >> commentary of the weaknesses of camera club judging. I have often said
    >> that Cartier-Bresson, would not do well in camera club competitions.
    >>

    > Agree with your comments, camera club judges are full of themselves on the
    > night, nit picking, they can't correctly evaluate the elements of an image
    > and ridicule the content. As an example some time ago had a image
    > evaluated and the comment was the horizon was not straight, funny about
    > that it had lens curvature. Another example was architecture, where
    > verticals should be vertical or over over emphasised, looking up at a tall
    > building, the judge picked on one as not vertical which should have been,
    > but there were 2 others out of whack as well, but no criticism of the fact
    > but given awards!
    >
    > I have even pointed out plagiarism of images and part images, to the
    > committee, ripped off the web, and they have condoned the use of such
    > images, to the extent where the image has been best in section. I was
    > being a pain in the arse to them.
    >
    > I'm sure other images being presented in competitions, were not setup or
    > photographed by the author, as they didn't show a consistent standard of
    > such photographer compare with there other submissions.
    >
    > What does amaze me is the judges will critique an image but can't explain
    > why or give their opinion how to rectify the perceived fault.
    >
    > One particular night there was this judge who insisted using "Um" all the
    > time, this irritates me as its them catching up with their thoughts,
    > anyhow this was so annoying that I started to count the number of time she
    > used "Um" and the intervals between. Results basically, 700, at 20 second
    > intervals, yep - over 3 hour period.
    > What a long boring night that turned out to be.
    >
    > Camera clubs live in there own little world and stay in a rut.



    The real question is why you would bother then rather than get out and take
    pictures for your own pleasure, and/or paying clients, rather than approval
    from stupid camera club judges?

    Trevor.
    Trevor, Mar 18, 2013
    #12
  13. PeterN

    Trevor Guest

    "Tony Cooper" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The only real objection I have to the competitions is that submissions
    > are not required to be "fresh". So, instead of shooting to the
    > mandate, most members pull shots from their archives and the image
    > might have been taken several years ago.


    Why should that matter? A seperate comp for a joint walkabout shooting
    session should cover that where people only get to shoot the same subjects
    in the same time, for those who prefer that limitation. Frankly I find the
    whole idea of such comps rather narcissistic and pointless, but each to
    their own.

    Trevor.
    Trevor, Mar 18, 2013
    #13
  14. PeterN

    Tony Cooper Guest

    On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 13:14:00 +1100, "Trevor" <> wrote:

    >
    >"Tony Cooper" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> The only real objection I have to the competitions is that submissions
    >> are not required to be "fresh". So, instead of shooting to the
    >> mandate, most members pull shots from their archives and the image
    >> might have been taken several years ago.

    >
    >Why should that matter?


    The idea of a mandate is to encourage the photographer to find
    something to shoot that he/she might not otherwise shoot and/or to
    look at a scene to find something in it that he/she might not
    otherwise see. It should expand the photographer's thinking.

    Putting a time restraint on it, stirs the photographer to do the above
    now instead of going through a couple of thousand archive shots that
    might fit the mandate.

    > A seperate comp for a joint walkabout shooting session should cover that
    >where people only get to shoot the same subjects in the same time,
    >for those who prefer that limitation.


    To the best of my knowledge, there are no Aborigines that are members
    of the camera club I belong to.

    >Frankly I find the whole idea of such comps rather narcissistic and
    >pointless, but each to their own.


    That's OK. Those that aren't interested, or those who aren't willing
    to have their efforts judged by others, are not pressed to join in.

    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
    Tony Cooper, Mar 18, 2013
    #14
  15. PeterN

    Trevor Guest

    "Tony Cooper" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 13:14:00 +1100, "Trevor" <> wrote:
    >>"Tony Cooper" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> The only real objection I have to the competitions is that submissions
    >>> are not required to be "fresh". So, instead of shooting to the
    >>> mandate, most members pull shots from their archives and the image
    >>> might have been taken several years ago.

    >>
    >>Why should that matter?

    >
    > The idea of a mandate is to encourage the photographer to find
    > something to shoot that he/she might not otherwise shoot and/or to
    > look at a scene to find something in it that he/she might not
    > otherwise see. It should expand the photographer's thinking.


    .....in the direction of the mandate, rather than the direction of the
    photographers choosing. Can't see the point, but if you are happy, sure
    doesn't bother me.


    >> A seperate comp for a joint walkabout shooting session should cover that
    >>where people only get to shoot the same subjects in the same time,
    >>for those who prefer that limitation.

    >
    > To the best of my knowledge, there are no Aborigines that are members
    > of the camera club I belong to.


    Am I supposed to laugh?


    >>Frankly I find the whole idea of such comps rather narcissistic and
    >>pointless, but each to their own.

    >
    > That's OK. Those that aren't interested, or those who aren't willing
    > to have their efforts judged by others, are not pressed to join in.



    Exactly, and neither are those who dislike the judges
    motives/ability/comments/agenda, or any other reason/complaint given so far.

    Trevor.
    Trevor, Mar 18, 2013
    #15
  16. PeterN

    Tony Cooper Guest

    On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 23:15:45 -0400, Tony Cooper
    <> wrote:

    >>Frankly I find the whole idea of such comps rather narcissistic and
    >>pointless, but each to their own.

    >


    "Narcissism" is not a word that I would choose to describe the
    motivation to participate in competitions. The narcissist is
    interested only self, and is excessively vain or egotistical.

    The narcissist would be adverse to entering competition because he or
    she would not be willing to be judged by others and would assume that
    anything he or she created would be superior to the submissions of
    others by default.

    The true narcissist *does* feel that competitions of this sort are
    pointless, though, because he or she feels that his or her submission
    is sure to win and therefore going through the motions of entering is
    pointless.

    Those of us who do enter competitions do so because a) we are proud of
    our work, or, b) we want to hear/read how others see our work, or, c)
    because we want recognition for our efforts, or, d) a combination of
    those reasons.

    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
    Tony Cooper, Mar 18, 2013
    #16
  17. PeterN

    Rob Guest

    On 18/03/2013 2:15 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
    > On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 13:14:00 +1100, "Trevor" <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> "Tony Cooper" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> The only real objection I have to the competitions is that submissions
    >>> are not required to be "fresh". So, instead of shooting to the
    >>> mandate, most members pull shots from their archives and the image
    >>> might have been taken several years ago.

    >>
    >> Why should that matter?

    >
    > The idea of a mandate is to encourage the photographer to find
    > something to shoot that he/she might not otherwise shoot and/or to
    > look at a scene to find something in it that he/she might not
    > otherwise see. It should expand the photographer's thinking.
    >
    > Putting a time restraint on it, stirs the photographer to do the above
    > now instead of going through a couple of thousand archive shots that
    > might fit the mandate.
    >
    >> A seperate comp for a joint walkabout shooting session should cover that
    >> where people only get to shoot the same subjects in the same time,
    >> for those who prefer that limitation.

    >


    After a club outing about 2 months later a subject came up where an
    image suitable for the comp, 4 images the same turned up, B&W as well.

    > To the best of my knowledge, there are no Aborigines that are members
    > of the camera club I belong to.


    We have blue eye blonds who are aborigines, nowdays you can't tell :)


    >
    >> Frankly I find the whole idea of such comps rather narcissistic and
    >> pointless, but each to their own.

    >
    > That's OK. Those that aren't interested, or those who aren't willing
    > to have their efforts judged by others, are not pressed to join in.
    >
    Rob, Mar 18, 2013
    #17
  18. PeterN

    Trevor Guest

    "Tony Cooper" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    >>>Frankly I find the whole idea of such comps rather narcissistic and
    >>>pointless, but each to their own.

    >
    > "Narcissism" is not a word that I would choose to describe the
    > motivation to participate in competitions. The narcissist is
    > interested only self, and is excessively vain or egotistical.


    Yep, that's the motivation for many, a desire to be admired by others for
    the talent they think they have.


    > The narcissist would be adverse to entering competition because he or
    > she would not be willing to be judged by others and would assume that
    > anything he or she created would be superior to the submissions of
    > others by default.


    Right, they expect to win, and blame the judges when they don't.


    > The true narcissist *does* feel that competitions of this sort are
    > pointless, though, because he or she feels that his or her submission
    > is sure to win and therefore going through the motions of entering is
    > pointless.


    Well that's one way to look at it I guess. But the true narcissist expects
    to win and needs the admiration.


    > Those of us who do enter competitions do so because a) we are proud of
    > our work, or, b) we want to hear/read how others see our work, or, c)
    > because we want recognition for our efforts,


    Exactly my point. But go right ahead, I said straight up each to their own.

    Trevor.
    Trevor, Mar 18, 2013
    #18
  19. PeterN

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Monday, March 18, 2013 2:08:19 AM UTC, Trevor wrote:
    > "Rob" <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:ki3hva$acq$...
    >
    > >>> Curious why you say they would NOT do well in a camera club? Just

    >
    > >>> wondering?

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >> Many judges would say: the hot spots are distracting; parts of the

    >
    > >> creatures are outside the image area, etc.

    >
    > >> Please note the above is not my impression, but is intended to be a

    >
    > >> commentary of the weaknesses of camera club judging. I have often said

    >
    > >> that Cartier-Bresson, would not do well in camera club competitions.

    >
    > >>

    >
    > > Agree with your comments, camera club judges are full of themselves on the

    >
    > > night, nit picking, they can't correctly evaluate the elements of an image

    >
    > > and ridicule the content. As an example some time ago had a image

    >
    > > evaluated and the comment was the horizon was not straight, funny about

    >
    > > that it had lens curvature. Another example was architecture, where

    >
    > > verticals should be vertical or over over emphasised, looking up at a tall

    >
    > > building, the judge picked on one as not vertical which should have been,

    >
    > > but there were 2 others out of whack as well, but no criticism of the fact

    >
    > > but given awards!

    >
    > >

    >
    > > I have even pointed out plagiarism of images and part images, to the

    >
    > > committee, ripped off the web, and they have condoned the use of such

    >
    > > images, to the extent where the image has been best in section. I was

    >
    > > being a pain in the arse to them.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > I'm sure other images being presented in competitions, were not setup or

    >
    > > photographed by the author, as they didn't show a consistent standard of

    >
    > > such photographer compare with there other submissions.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > What does amaze me is the judges will critique an image but can't explain

    >
    > > why or give their opinion how to rectify the perceived fault.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > One particular night there was this judge who insisted using "Um" all the

    >
    > > time, this irritates me as its them catching up with their thoughts,

    >
    > > anyhow this was so annoying that I started to count the number of time she

    >
    > > used "Um" and the intervals between. Results basically, 700, at 20 second

    >
    > > intervals, yep - over 3 hour period.

    >
    > > What a long boring night that turned out to be.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > Camera clubs live in there own little world and stay in a rut.

    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > The real question is why you would bother then rather than get out and take
    >
    > pictures for your own pleasure, and/or paying clients, rather than approval
    >
    > from stupid camera club judges?


    Well for me part of the photography was a social event and to see if you could get better pictures than others in the club given the same location andweather conditions. There was also a chance of learning by watching the more experinced and also being able to ask for hep there and then rather thanwaiting for a question to be posted and replied to in a mag or even nowadays by email etc...

    It also enabled me to go to places I couldn't have got to by mayself anywhere near as easily or cheaply.

    The interesting thing about stupid camera judges is that they are only stupid when they mis-judge your own work. ;-)
    But I did find it interesting to hear their comments in a similar way I do with to the shoot in here.
    Whisky-dave, Mar 18, 2013
    #19
  20. PeterN

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Monday, March 18, 2013 1:56:44 PM UTC, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2013-03-18 06:38:15 -0700, Whisky-dave <> said:
    >
    >
    >
    > > The interesting thing about stupid camera judges is that they are only stup

    >
    > > id when they mis-judge your own work. ;-)

    >
    > > But I did find it interesting to hear their comments in a similar way I do

    >
    > > with to the shoot in here.

    >
    >
    >
    > So, where are your SI shots, so you can hear/read those comments with
    >
    > regard to your work?


    One day when I have the time and interest again I sort of lost interest in going to take photos for the sake of taking them around 1988, I sort of got bored and my computer and electronics, & computer hobbies took over.
    Personally I'd prefer the SI done a little differntly I find it annoying to have to go back and forth reading comments here and then going to the SI.
    That's one of the reasons I'd prefer flickr, I lke to see both things together and a list of comments that don't span across various posts.

    Furniture now I do need to take a few pics of some furnature from my parents place as I was talking to someone about the old wardrobe with shrapnel damage from WWII, it's where I keep my electronics stuff.
    Whisky-dave, Mar 18, 2013
    #20
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