Re: Macro mode

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by tony cooper, Jul 9, 2008.

  1. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:27:03 -0400, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:

    >Alfred Molon wrote:
    >> What exactly happens when a camera is set to macro mode?
    >>
    >> And why are some lenses "macro lenses" while others are not? Can a lens
    >> which is not a macro lens take close-ups?

    >
    >Macro is not a "mode".


    I sense some semantic nit-picking here. My Nikon D40 and my Nikon
    Coolpix both have a "mode dial" on the body, and both manuals refer to
    the "macro mode" setting.

    If you set the camera to "Automatic", "Aperture Priority", "Shutter
    Priority", etc, is this not setting the camera "mode"?

    If "mode" is not the correct term, please supply it and a red felt-tip
    pen so I can make the necessary corrections in my owner's manual.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Jul 9, 2008
    #1
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  2. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:02:10 -0400, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:

    >tony cooper wrote:
    >> On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:27:03 -0400, Alan Browne
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Alfred Molon wrote:
    >>>> What exactly happens when a camera is set to macro mode?
    >>>>
    >>>> And why are some lenses "macro lenses" while others are not? Can a lens
    >>>> which is not a macro lens take close-ups?
    >>> Macro is not a "mode".

    >>
    >> I sense some semantic nit-picking here. My Nikon D40 and my Nikon
    >> Coolpix both have a "mode dial" on the body, and both manuals refer to
    >> the "macro mode" setting.
    >>
    >> If you set the camera to "Automatic", "Aperture Priority", "Shutter
    >> Priority", etc, is this not setting the camera "mode"?
    >>
    >> If "mode" is not the correct term, please supply it and a red felt-tip
    >> pen so I can make the necessary corrections in my owner's manual.

    >
    >It is not semantics nor nit picking. Macro photography is a singular
    >subject and requires the right equipment to do it. It is not a 'mode'
    >for the equipment (though it could be for the photographer...).


    Of course it's semantics. The question was "What exactly happens when
    a camera is set to macro mode"? The word "mode" means "a designated
    condition or status", and the question was about a camera setting.

    What you have brought up is a completely different thing - macro
    photography - and something that is done without setting the camera to
    the macro mode. Macro photography is accomplished with lenses or
    extensions and not by the setting of the mode dial on the camera.

    Macro is an available setting mode on the camera, but shooting in that
    mode does not result in macro photography. It results, in some
    cameras, in better close-ups at certain distances. (I find, however,
    with my D40 that the "macro mode" is not an improvement for close-ups
    of small objects. It is with my Coolpix.)

    You can lecture on about marketing spin and uninformed buyers, but the
    fact remains that there is a "macro mode" on many cameras and -
    believe it or not - many camera users understand that shooting in the
    macro mode does not result in macro photography and use it to get
    better close-ups.

    It's admirable that you are so willing to provide education to the
    masses, but in some cases you are delivering more coal to Newcastle.


    >The various camera co's use the term a loosely in their marketing and so
    >it comes down to:
    >
    >-the uninformed (and generally not very interested) thinking they have a
    >capability that they do not; and as long as they're happy it doesn't
    >matter too much.
    >
    >-the informed who want to make macro photos and who conclude that the
    >only way to get there is with proper technique and tools.
    >
    >I've tried the shortcuts such as "macro" zoom lenses (though never
    >bought one, a blessing) and diopter lenses. The results were indeed
    >"bigger", but poor in contrast, color and detail. Not what macro really is.
    >
    >Indeed, real macro lenses are often exceedingly sharp in the macro focus
    >range while not so sharp at 1:10 towards infinity. They are optimized
    >for macro shooting.
    >
    >One could also take an ordinary lens like a 50mm and add an extension
    >tube to get magnification. This too is macro if one gets close to 1:2
    >or better.
    >
    >Cheers,
    >Alan.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Jul 9, 2008
    #2
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  3. tony cooper wrote:

    > On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:27:03 -0400, Alan Browne
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>Alfred Molon wrote:
    >>> What exactly happens when a camera is set to macro mode?
    >>>
    >>> And why are some lenses "macro lenses" while others are not? Can a lens
    >>> which is not a macro lens take close-ups?

    >>
    >>Macro is not a "mode".

    >
    > I sense some semantic nit-picking here. My Nikon D40 and my Nikon
    > Coolpix both have a "mode dial" on the body, and both manuals refer to
    > the "macro mode" setting.


    What are you seeing with the D40, Tony? I think in this respect my D60 is
    the same as your D40, and "macro" doesn't even appear in the index of my
    FM. I see "close-up", and am used to that language with the "Close Up"
    mode -- the flower icon on the mode dial. Can you give me an example?
    Thanks.


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    #3
  4. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:32:25 -0700, Blinky the Shark
    <> wrote:

    >tony cooper wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:27:03 -0400, Alan Browne
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Alfred Molon wrote:
    >>>> What exactly happens when a camera is set to macro mode?
    >>>>
    >>>> And why are some lenses "macro lenses" while others are not? Can a lens
    >>>> which is not a macro lens take close-ups?
    >>>
    >>>Macro is not a "mode".

    >>
    >> I sense some semantic nit-picking here. My Nikon D40 and my Nikon
    >> Coolpix both have a "mode dial" on the body, and both manuals refer to
    >> the "macro mode" setting.

    >
    >What are you seeing with the D40, Tony? I think in this respect my D60 is
    >the same as your D40, and "macro" doesn't even appear in the index of my
    >FM. I see "close-up", and am used to that language with the "Close Up"
    >mode -- the flower icon on the mode dial. Can you give me an example?


    See:
    http://img107.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=50248_mode_122_168lo.jpg

    The top half is a scan of the manual for my D40, and the bottom half
    is the manual for my Coolpix.

    The D40 refers to "shooting modes" at the top, "point and shoot modes"
    in the middle, and "close-up" at the bottom.

    The Coolpix refers to "Focus Modes" and used "Macro Close-Up".

    The "mode dial" determines the setting mode.

    "Macro" does not appear in the index of the D40 manual, but "Macro
    mode" is listed in the Coolpix index.

    That "flower icon" setting is a focus mode, but it does not result in
    macro photography. The "sports" mode does not necessarily result in
    sports photography, either. A mode is a setting in this context, and
    not a description of the captured image.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Jul 10, 2008
    #4
  5. tony cooper wrote:

    > On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:32:25 -0700, Blinky the Shark
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>tony cooper wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:27:03 -0400, Alan Browne
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Alfred Molon wrote:
    >>>>> What exactly happens when a camera is set to macro mode?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> And why are some lenses "macro lenses" while others are not? Can a lens
    >>>>> which is not a macro lens take close-ups?
    >>>>
    >>>>Macro is not a "mode".
    >>>
    >>> I sense some semantic nit-picking here. My Nikon D40 and my Nikon
    >>> Coolpix both have a "mode dial" on the body, and both manuals refer to
    >>> the "macro mode" setting.

    >>
    >>What are you seeing with the D40, Tony? I think in this respect my D60 is
    >>the same as your D40, and "macro" doesn't even appear in the index of my
    >>FM. I see "close-up", and am used to that language with the "Close Up"
    >>mode -- the flower icon on the mode dial. Can you give me an example?

    >
    > See:
    > http://img107.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=50248_mode_122_168lo.jpg
    >
    > The top half is a scan of the manual for my D40, and the bottom half
    > is the manual for my Coolpix.
    >
    > The D40 refers to "shooting modes" at the top, "point and shoot modes"
    > in the middle, and "close-up" at the bottom.
    >
    > The Coolpix refers to "Focus Modes" and used "Macro Close-Up".
    >
    > The "mode dial" determines the setting mode.
    >
    > "Macro" does not appear in the index of the D40 manual, but "Macro
    > mode" is listed in the Coolpix index.


    Okay, that's what I was wondering about, versus your claim. (I didn't go
    through every page of my D60 manual looking for it, but I've read TM a few
    times.

    > That "flower icon" setting is a focus mode, but it does not result
    > in macro photography.


    I know. And it doesn't even mention "macro".

    Meanwhile, I'm sitting - very antsily, even though that's probably not a
    word - on a back order for a Tamron 90 macro lens. Nobody I want to order
    from has it, my thinking being that that's because there's a $90
    manufacturer's rebate on it. I've compared images and reviews and
    flickrs and pbases and photonets and stuff for weeks. That's the lens I
    want, dammit. Dammit. (BuyDig showed it in stock last week, so I tried
    ordering it there. A few days went buy and my order status changed to
    "PIK", which a rollover popup said meant "it's in the hands of the
    wareouse and we'll ship reall soon", to "Shipping", which had the same
    rollover popup, and then back to "Processing", where it was the first day
    of my order. I finally called them, and they admitted that the left hand
    didn't know what the right hand was doing; I cancelled that order. I have
    it on BO at Adorama and a local camera shop (via their online presense);
    first one to get stock gets my money. Problem is, when I put it on BO at
    the second vendor, a couplethree weeks ago, they said it had already been
    on backorder for a month. And the rebate's only good until July 31.
    Dammit. Dammit.



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  6. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 19:21:14 -0700, Blinky the Shark
    <> wrote:

    >tony cooper wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:32:25 -0700, Blinky the Shark
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>tony cooper wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:27:03 -0400, Alan Browne
    >>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>Alfred Molon wrote:
    >>>>>> What exactly happens when a camera is set to macro mode?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> And why are some lenses "macro lenses" while others are not? Can a lens
    >>>>>> which is not a macro lens take close-ups?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Macro is not a "mode".
    >>>>
    >>>> I sense some semantic nit-picking here. My Nikon D40 and my Nikon
    >>>> Coolpix both have a "mode dial" on the body, and both manuals refer to
    >>>> the "macro mode" setting.
    >>>
    >>>What are you seeing with the D40, Tony? I think in this respect my D60 is
    >>>the same as your D40, and "macro" doesn't even appear in the index of my
    >>>FM. I see "close-up", and am used to that language with the "Close Up"
    >>>mode -- the flower icon on the mode dial. Can you give me an example?

    >>
    >> See:
    >> http://img107.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=50248_mode_122_168lo.jpg
    >>
    >> The top half is a scan of the manual for my D40, and the bottom half
    >> is the manual for my Coolpix.
    >>
    >> The D40 refers to "shooting modes" at the top, "point and shoot modes"
    >> in the middle, and "close-up" at the bottom.
    >>
    >> The Coolpix refers to "Focus Modes" and used "Macro Close-Up".
    >>
    >> The "mode dial" determines the setting mode.
    >>
    >> "Macro" does not appear in the index of the D40 manual, but "Macro
    >> mode" is listed in the Coolpix index.

    >
    >Okay, that's what I was wondering about, versus your claim. (I didn't go
    >through every page of my D60 manual looking for it, but I've read TM a few
    >times.
    >
    >> That "flower icon" setting is a focus mode, but it does not result
    >> in macro photography.

    >
    >I know. And it doesn't even mention "macro".
    >

    It's going to be a tough sell to convince people that the "flower
    icon" is not the "macro mode" on any camera. The term "close-up mode"
    may be the more accurate term, but "macro" is firmly embedded in the
    camera market's mind. That doesn't mean that the same people feel
    they are doing "macro photography". They know they aren't going to be
    photographing a spider's nads using this setting.

    http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/NikonD40/page4e.shtml talks about
    "macro" comparisons.

    Ken Rockwell (I know, I know) talks about "macro" output with an
    18/55mm lens at http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/18-55-ii.htm#perf

    Steve's Digicam refers to "macro" as one of the shooting modes on the
    Pentax istDs. http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/istds.html

    We are used to cameras that have mode choices, and the flower icon
    mode is called the "macro mode" in many - if not most - camera reviews
    and in camera forums.

    I think we just have to get used to the idea that "macro mode" is a
    setting on a camera, and "macro photography" is accomplished by using
    a macro lens or extension tubes. Use of the term "macro mode" is not
    an indication that the speaker doesn't understand the difference.

    Jumping in and saying that using the macro mode isn't macro
    photography is an unnecessary nit-pick.




    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Jul 10, 2008
    #6
  7. tony cooper wrote:

    > On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 19:21:14 -0700, Blinky the Shark
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>tony cooper wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:32:25 -0700, Blinky the Shark
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>tony cooper wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:27:03 -0400, Alan Browne
    >>>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>Alfred Molon wrote:
    >>>>>>> What exactly happens when a camera is set to macro mode?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> And why are some lenses "macro lenses" while others are not? Can a lens
    >>>>>>> which is not a macro lens take close-ups?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Macro is not a "mode".
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I sense some semantic nit-picking here. My Nikon D40 and my Nikon
    >>>>> Coolpix both have a "mode dial" on the body, and both manuals refer to
    >>>>> the "macro mode" setting.
    >>>>
    >>>>What are you seeing with the D40, Tony? I think in this respect my D60 is
    >>>>the same as your D40, and "macro" doesn't even appear in the index of my
    >>>>FM. I see "close-up", and am used to that language with the "Close Up"
    >>>>mode -- the flower icon on the mode dial. Can you give me an example?
    >>>
    >>> See:
    >>> http://img107.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=50248_mode_122_168lo.jpg
    >>>
    >>> The top half is a scan of the manual for my D40, and the bottom half
    >>> is the manual for my Coolpix.
    >>>
    >>> The D40 refers to "shooting modes" at the top, "point and shoot modes"
    >>> in the middle, and "close-up" at the bottom.
    >>>
    >>> The Coolpix refers to "Focus Modes" and used "Macro Close-Up".
    >>>
    >>> The "mode dial" determines the setting mode.
    >>>
    >>> "Macro" does not appear in the index of the D40 manual, but "Macro
    >>> mode" is listed in the Coolpix index.

    >>
    >>Okay, that's what I was wondering about, versus your claim. (I didn't go
    >>through every page of my D60 manual looking for it, but I've read TM a few
    >>times.
    >>
    >>> That "flower icon" setting is a focus mode, but it does not result
    >>> in macro photography.

    >>
    >>I know. And it doesn't even mention "macro".
    >>

    > It's going to be a tough sell to convince people that the "flower
    > icon" is not the "macro mode" on any camera. The term "close-up mode"
    > may be the more accurate term, but "macro" is firmly embedded in the
    > camera market's mind. That doesn't mean that the same people feel
    > they are doing "macro photography". They know they aren't going to be
    > photographing a spider's nads using this setting.
    >
    > http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/NikonD40/page4e.shtml talks about
    > "macro" comparisons.
    >
    > Ken Rockwell (I know, I know) talks about "macro" output with an
    > 18/55mm lens at http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/18-55-ii.htm#perf
    >
    > Steve's Digicam refers to "macro" as one of the shooting modes on the
    > Pentax istDs. http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/istds.html
    >
    > We are used to cameras that have mode choices, and the flower icon
    > mode is called the "macro mode" in many - if not most - camera reviews
    > and in camera forums.
    >
    > I think we just have to get used to the idea that "macro mode" is a
    > setting on a camera, and "macro photography" is accomplished by using
    > a macro lens or extension tubes. Use of the term "macro mode" is not
    > an indication that the speaker doesn't understand the difference.
    >
    > Jumping in and saying that using the macro mode isn't macro
    > photography is an unnecessary nit-pick.


    I don't have a dog in that fight, Tony, and I said nothing about it. All
    I did was point out that unlike your original claim (since amended to
    well, your other camera's manual does), the D40/D60 manual does not use
    the word "macro". That's all. Simple and handled. :)


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    #7
  8. tony cooper wrote:
    []
    > That "flower icon" setting is a focus mode, but it does not result in
    > macro photography. The "sports" mode does not necessarily result in
    > sports photography, either. A mode is a setting in this context, and
    > not a description of the captured image.


    Can you stop the flash from popping up on the D40 in "flower-icon" mode?

    David
    David J Taylor, Jul 10, 2008
    #8
  9. David J Taylor wrote:

    > tony cooper wrote:
    > []
    >> That "flower icon" setting is a focus mode, but it does not result in
    >> macro photography. The "sports" mode does not necessarily result in
    >> sports photography, either. A mode is a setting in this context, and
    >> not a description of the captured image.

    >
    > Can you stop the flash from popping up on the D40 in "flower-icon" mode?


    Speaking for the D60: yes; close-up mode allows you to select auto flash,
    auto with red-eye prevention, and no flash. I wasn't sure. I just tested.



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    #9
  10. Blinky the Shark wrote:

    > David J Taylor wrote:
    >
    >> tony cooper wrote:
    >> []
    >>> That "flower icon" setting is a focus mode, but it does not result in
    >>> macro photography. The "sports" mode does not necessarily result in
    >>> sports photography, either. A mode is a setting in this context, and
    >>> not a description of the captured image.

    >>
    >> Can you stop the flash from popping up on the D40 in "flower-icon" mode?

    >
    > Speaking for the D60: yes; close-up mode allows you to select auto flash,
    > auto with red-eye prevention, and no flash. I wasn't sure. I just tested.


    And it's a bit more than a focus mode; it also warms up the image a bit,
    for instance. And I *think* that it favors large aperatures for
    seperation of subject and background.


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    #10
  11. Blinky the Shark wrote:
    > David J Taylor wrote:

    []
    >> Can you stop the flash from popping up on the D40 in "flower-icon"
    >> mode?

    >
    > Speaking for the D60: yes; close-up mode allows you to select auto
    > flash, auto with red-eye prevention, and no flash. I wasn't sure. I
    > just tested.


    Which menu? I did look briefly but didn't find it. Of course, it may be
    new to the D60.

    Thanks,
    David
    David J Taylor, Jul 10, 2008
    #11
  12. David J Taylor wrote:

    > Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >> David J Taylor wrote:

    > []
    >>> Can you stop the flash from popping up on the D40 in "flower-icon"
    >>> mode?

    >>
    >> Speaking for the D60: yes; close-up mode allows you to select auto
    >> flash, auto with red-eye prevention, and no flash. I wasn't sure. I
    >> just tested.

    >
    > Which menu? I did look briefly but didn't find it. Of course, it may be
    > new to the D60.


    There's a flash mode button on the left side of the prism area, just below
    the popup part. When I press it while in close-up mode, I can spin the
    command dial through those three selections, which show up in in the flash
    mode box at the lower left corner of the LCD.


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    #12
  13. Blinky the Shark wrote:
    > David J Taylor wrote:
    >
    >> Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >>> David J Taylor wrote:

    >> []
    >>>> Can you stop the flash from popping up on the D40 in "flower-icon"
    >>>> mode?
    >>>
    >>> Speaking for the D60: yes; close-up mode allows you to select auto
    >>> flash, auto with red-eye prevention, and no flash. I wasn't sure.
    >>> I just tested.

    >>
    >> Which menu? I did look briefly but didn't find it. Of course, it
    >> may be new to the D60.

    >
    > There's a flash mode button on the left side of the prism area, just
    > below the popup part. When I press it while in close-up mode, I can
    > spin the command dial through those three selections, which show up
    > in in the flash mode box at the lower left corner of the LCD.


    Thanks for that. Yes, it's same here. But even if I select No Flash, the
    flash still pops up on close-up mode the next time I switch the camera on.
    I was hoping the setting might persist when the camera was switched off.

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Jul 10, 2008
    #13
  14. tony cooper

    Cynicor Guest

    David J Taylor wrote:
    > Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >> David J Taylor wrote:
    >>
    >>> Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >>>> David J Taylor wrote:
    >>> []
    >>>>> Can you stop the flash from popping up on the D40 in "flower-icon"
    >>>>> mode?
    >>>> Speaking for the D60: yes; close-up mode allows you to select auto
    >>>> flash, auto with red-eye prevention, and no flash. I wasn't sure.
    >>>> I just tested.
    >>> Which menu? I did look briefly but didn't find it. Of course, it
    >>> may be new to the D60.

    >> There's a flash mode button on the left side of the prism area, just
    >> below the popup part. When I press it while in close-up mode, I can
    >> spin the command dial through those three selections, which show up
    >> in in the flash mode box at the lower left corner of the LCD.

    >
    > Thanks for that. Yes, it's same here. But even if I select No Flash, the
    > flash still pops up on close-up mode the next time I switch the camera on.
    > I was hoping the setting might persist when the camera was switched off.


    Use a Nikon SG-31R and block the flash.
    Cynicor, Jul 10, 2008
    #14
  15. Cynicor wrote:
    []
    >> Thanks for that. Yes, it's same here. But even if I select No
    >> Flash, the flash still pops up on close-up mode the next time I
    >> switch the camera on. I was hoping the setting might persist when
    >> the camera was switched off.

    >
    > Use a Nikon SG-31R and block the flash.


    Cynicor, as I think you may know, I am a minimum bulk and weight person,
    so any extras are out. Were I doing serious macro in the studio (i.e. at
    home) it would be different, of course.

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Jul 10, 2008
    #15
  16. tony cooper

    Guest

    On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 13:35:00 -0400, in rec.photo.digital "Neil
    Harrington" <> wrote:

    >
    >Metering II system with D or G type lenses, and "focus mode is always set to
    >AF-A, which you will not be able to override." (I take that to mean, in AF
    >mode you can't use the AF override feature on a lens with the M/A-M switch,
    >which of course the D40 kit lenses don't have anyway.)


    No. From p. 23 of the fine manual.

    Focus mode Description
    AF-A Auto-servo AF
    (default setting)
    Camera automatically selects single-servo autofocus when subject is
    judged to be stationary, continuous-servo autofocus when subject is
    judged to be moving. Shutter can be released if camera is able to
    focus.

    AF-S Single-servo AF
    For stationary subjects. Focus locks when shutter-release button is
    pressed halfway. Shutter can be released if camera is able to focus.

    AF-C Continuousservo AF
    For moving subjects. Camera focuses continuously while shutter-release
    button is pressed halfway. Shutter can be released if camera is able
    to focus.
    , Jul 10, 2008
    #16
  17. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:36:48 -0400, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:
    >
    >It's amazing that this is a photography group and that the masses who
    >subscribe to marketing pablum eat it up in the face of customary
    >nomenclature, definition, experience and proven method and technique.


    >"macro" is not a mode.


    >"macro mode" is not macro photography.


    What are you on about?

    Some cameras have focus mode that is designated by a flower icon on
    the mode dial and called the macro mode or the close-up mode in the
    manual. It's a focus mode, and a "mode" in that it's one of several
    choices of settings. I don't see anyone here in this photography
    group insisting that photograph taken when the camera set to this
    focus mode is a macro photograph.

    If there are people among the general public who refer to the results
    of images taken when the camera is set to this mode as "macro
    photographs", they are wrong. I don't see it as an earth-shattering
    problem but it this gnaws at you, so be it.

    I'm sure if they ever wander into this group that you'll set them
    straight.

    >>Camera/lens makers who sell cheap goods with too much promise and too

    >little delivery certainly do not change definition.


    Cheap goods? "Cheap" has a connotation of "shoddy", but some camera
    makers who call the focus mode setting designated by the flower icon
    the "macro" setting are merely inexpensive. There may be some
    expensive ones that do. I don't know, and I don't know what is
    considered "expensive" or "inexpensive". That's all relative.

    While my Nikon D40 doesn't, my Nikon Coolpix does identify the mode as
    the "macro mode" in the index and the "macro close-up mode" on page
    31. Under "When to use it", the manual says "Use for close-ups".
    Nothing falsely promised there. It delivers what it does promise.
    I was not misled when I bought it. I owned a designated macro lens
    when I used 35mm film, and knew what to expect from the Coolpix.




    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Jul 11, 2008
    #17
  18. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:04:10 -0400, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:

    >tony cooper wrote:
    >
    >> I was not misled when I bought it. I owned a designated macro lens
    >> when I used 35mm film, and knew what to expect from the Coolpix.

    >
    >Keep playin' yer fiddle. Doesn't sell here.


    I understand. It disturbs you to think that what you believe to be
    your own special knowledge is commonly understood.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Jul 11, 2008
    #18
  19. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:13:58 -0400, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:

    >tony cooper wrote:
    >> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:04:10 -0400, Alan Browne
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> tony cooper wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I was not misled when I bought it. I owned a designated macro lens
    >>>> when I used 35mm film, and knew what to expect from the Coolpix.
    >>> Keep playin' yer fiddle. Doesn't sell here.

    >>
    >> I understand. It disturbs you to think that what you believe to be
    >> your own special knowledge is commonly understood.

    >
    >Whatever Tony. I've got your number. You come here with the baggage of
    >years and the influence of dabbling in too many things,


    Neither the years nor the dabbling in many things are what I would
    consider unwanted baggage.

    >never being on top of any one thing.


    And never with the desire to puff out my chest and profess expert
    status in anything. Self-constructed pedestals are too fragile.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Jul 12, 2008
    #19
  20. tony cooper

    Peter Irwin Guest

    Neil Harrington <> wrote:

    > Actually, NONE of the four you mentioned are really that good. Ordinary
    > camera lenses on extension tubes or bellows may give satisfactory results
    > when stopped down enough, at least for centrally placed subjects, but they
    > are not designed to be used at anything like a 1:1 magnification and aren't
    > likely to give good definition or flat field over the whole frame.


    It depends on the lens. A 50/3.5 tessar type is very likely to
    be satisfactory for the purpose. The Leitz Elmar 50/3.5 made
    a quite decent enlarging lens (the historical reason why enlarger
    lens mounts are very often LTM) and was quite usable for 1:1 and
    larger if stopped down to middle stops. My Asahi Pentax Manual
    notes that the SMC Takumar 55/1.8 is much better for close-up
    work than the 50/1.4.

    True macro lenses such as the B&L Micro-Tessars and the Leitz
    Micro-Summars certainly did exist in the 1930s if not earlier,
    but it was quite usual to use the standard lenses for macro-work.
    The old Leica Manuals mention the availability of the micro-summar
    lenses, but have entire chapters on using the Elmar and other standard
    lenses for the purpose.

    My 35mm f/2.4 CZJ lens will focus down to a 1:2 ratio and seems
    remarkably good for close-up work.
    >
    > As you say, they're "not very sharp" -- especially the +20 close-up lens it
    > would take to reach 1:1 with a 50mm prime lens.


    It wouldn't take quite that much because a typical 50 mm lens for
    an SLR has about 1 cm worth of focus extension: it would only take
    about a +13 lens. More practical is a +4 achromat on a 135mm lens.
    It wouldn't likely get you quite up to 1:1 unless your 135 is
    unusually close focussing, but it will get you close and will be
    quite satisfactory in use.

    Peter.
    --
    Peter Irwin, Jul 14, 2008
    #20
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