Re: Looking for games for kids 10~12

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Peter Huebner, Oct 4, 2008.

  1. In article <48e697e1$>, y says...
    > Interested in games for <13 years old but in particular maths based
    > games (ie to improve maths)....computer based, but board games as
    > well....ones with "subtle" educational content.
    >
    > Games that can be played between 2 PCs or better yet 1 mac and x PC's
    >
    > so LAN type ones.
    >
    > any suggestions?
    >
    > Internet maybe as well...
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing
    >


    boardgame:
    http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/361
    highly recommended.

    I believe I've seen it at the 'Chapters' store, which has branches in
    Whangarei and Wellington. Also available from various online stores in
    the US (bouldergames comes to mind, but there are others I've dealt
    with). The game is playable with 6 year olds, but can be played at the
    level of serious strategy with adults, where some considerable mental
    arithmetic comes into play if you want to win <g>.
    Possibly 'The Merchants of Amsterdam' by Rainer Knizia. (he's a
    mathematician who makes a living designing boardgames, one of the few
    people who manage to do that). Look it up on the boardgamegeek site.
    Some people like this game, some don't - unlike the other that seems to
    be universally loved.
    I might lend it to you to try it out, if you promise to treat it really
    well. I'm a bit of a fusspot when it comes to that, though.

    Can't really think of any computer games where you really depend on
    maths at the surface level, although most 4X turn based strategy games
    stimulate math-type thinking where you have to balance various aspects
    of resource allocation carefully against each other to survive. But I
    can't really think of one that requires you to do actual calculations,
    at least not from the top of my head.

    -Peter
    Peter Huebner, Oct 4, 2008
    #1
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  2. Peter Huebner

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs "thingy" typed:
    > Peter Huebner wrote:



    Huh?

    I'm not seeing Peter's post, or a few others that I've seen replies to and I
    know aren't in my krillfile.

    Perhaps i should try via motzarella or x-privat, it could be an Actrix thing
    I guess.

    Anyone else not seeing Peters post, or seeing it through Actrix?

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
    ~misfit~, Oct 4, 2008
    #2
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  3. Peter Huebner

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs "~misfit~" typed:
    > Somewhere on teh intarwebs "thingy" typed:
    >> Peter Huebner wrote:

    >
    >
    > Huh?
    >
    > I'm not seeing Peter's post, or a few others that I've seen replies
    > to and I know aren't in my krillfile.
    >
    > Perhaps i should try via motzarella or x-privat, it could be an
    > Actrix thing I guess.
    >
    > Anyone else not seeing Peters post, or seeing it through Actrix?


    Thanks for the flood of replies.

    I've downloaded nz.comp via X-Privat and see Peter's post through them so
    will use X-Privat for nz.comp at least for now. I still don't know if it's
    Actrix at fault or I'd give them a call.
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
    ~misfit~, Oct 6, 2008
    #3
  4. Peter Huebner

    ~misfit~ Guest

    NNTP Actrix/Xnet problems? Was: Re: Looking for games for kids 10~12

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs "~misfit~" typed:
    > Somewhere on teh intarwebs "~misfit~" typed:
    >> Somewhere on teh intarwebs "thingy" typed:
    >>> Peter Huebner wrote:

    [Nothing that showed up on Actrix' NNTP server]
    >> I'm not seeing Peter's post, or a few others that I've seen replies
    >> to and I know aren't in my krillfile.
    >>
    >> Perhaps i should try via motzarella or x-privat, it could be an
    >> Actrix thing I guess.
    >>
    >> Anyone else not seeing Peters post, or seeing it through Actrix?


    <sarcasm>

    > Thanks for the flood of replies.


    </sarcasm>

    > I've downloaded nz.comp via X-Privat and see Peter's post through
    > them so will use X-Privat for nz.comp at least for now. I still don't
    > know if it's Actrix at fault or I'd give them a call.


    Anyone know if Peter is with Xnet? I've just read this group using X-Privat
    and now am looking at nz.comp through Actrix and I only see two of Jamie's
    posts in the "WTF" thread. I don't see EMB's post or the post by Peter (not
    Huebner). Perhaps the problem lies between Xnet and Actrix? Odd that
    X-Privat gets the posts though. That sort of points to Actrix having the
    problem methinks....
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
    ~misfit~, Oct 6, 2008
    #4
  5. Peter Huebner

    David Empson Guest

    Re: NNTP Actrix/Xnet problems? Was: Re: Looking for games for kids 10~12

    ~misfit~ <> wrote:

    > Somewhere on teh intarwebs "~misfit~" typed:
    > > Somewhere on teh intarwebs "~misfit~" typed:
    > >> Somewhere on teh intarwebs "thingy" typed:
    > >>> Peter Huebner wrote:

    > [Nothing that showed up on Actrix' NNTP server]
    > >> I'm not seeing Peter's post, or a few others that I've seen replies
    > >> to and I know aren't in my krillfile.
    > >>
    > >> Perhaps i should try via motzarella or x-privat, it could be an
    > >> Actrix thing I guess.
    > >>
    > >> Anyone else not seeing Peters post, or seeing it through Actrix?

    >
    > <sarcasm>
    >
    > > Thanks for the flood of replies.

    >
    > </sarcasm>
    >
    > > I've downloaded nz.comp via X-Privat and see Peter's post through
    > > them so will use X-Privat for nz.comp at least for now. I still don't
    > > know if it's Actrix at fault or I'd give them a call.

    >
    > Anyone know if Peter is with Xnet? I've just read this group using X-Privat
    > and now am looking at nz.comp through Actrix and I only see two of Jamie's
    > posts in the "WTF" thread. I don't see EMB's post or the post by Peter (not
    > Huebner). Perhaps the problem lies between Xnet and Actrix? Odd that
    > X-Privat gets the posts though. That sort of points to Actrix having the
    > problem methinks....


    I'll second the theory that Actrix has a problem with their news feed.

    I've noticed random missing posts in every newsgroup for the last week
    or so. I e-mailed Actrix support about it earlier today.

    The evidence points to a change in news servers in the delivery chain.
    Prior to the evening of 30 September, Actrix was getting a fair number
    of overseas sourced articles from diablo.efnet.com. After that point,
    they were mostly coming from newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz, and this coincides
    with random articles not arriving.

    I have evidence of articles from selected people having a high
    probability of not arriving at Actrix. Overall I'd say there is about a
    20% rate of article loss in the last week, but some posters (originating
    servers) are affected worse than others (EMB is one in this group; his
    server is news01.wxnz.net).

    I suspect Actrix changed who they are peering with, which resulted in
    most news traffic travelling via ihug to get to Actrix. Perhaps Actrix
    isn't peering with anyone other than ihug, and ihug's feed is spotty.

    Since the missing articles haven't turned up after several days, I'm
    more inclined to suspect a buggy news server somewhere which isn't
    exchanging the missing articles.

    --
    David Empson
    David Empson, Oct 7, 2008
    #5
  6. Peter Huebner

    Enkidu Guest

    Re: NNTP Actrix/Xnet problems? Was: Re: Looking for games for kids10~12

    ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Somewhere on teh intarwebs "David Empson" typed:
    >> ~misfit~ <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Somewhere on teh intarwebs "~misfit~" typed:
    >>>> Somewhere on teh intarwebs "~misfit~" typed:
    >>>>> Somewhere on teh intarwebs "thingy" typed:
    >>>>>> Peter Huebner wrote:
    >>> [Nothing that showed up on Actrix' NNTP server]
    >>>>> I'm not seeing Peter's post, or a few others that I've seen replies
    >>>>> to and I know aren't in my krillfile.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Perhaps i should try via motzarella or x-privat, it could be an
    >>>>> Actrix thing I guess.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Anyone else not seeing Peters post, or seeing it through Actrix?
    >>> <sarcasm>
    >>>
    >>>> Thanks for the flood of replies.
    >>> </sarcasm>
    >>>
    >>>> I've downloaded nz.comp via X-Privat and see Peter's post through
    >>>> them so will use X-Privat for nz.comp at least for now. I still
    >>>> don't know if it's Actrix at fault or I'd give them a call.
    >>> Anyone know if Peter is with Xnet? I've just read this group using
    >>> X-Privat and now am looking at nz.comp through Actrix and I only see
    >>> two of Jamie's posts in the "WTF" thread. I don't see EMB's post or
    >>> the post by Peter (not Huebner). Perhaps the problem lies between
    >>> Xnet and Actrix? Odd that X-Privat gets the posts though. That sort
    >>> of points to Actrix having the problem methinks....

    >> I'll second the theory that Actrix has a problem with their news feed.
    >>
    >> I've noticed random missing posts in every newsgroup for the last week
    >> or so. I e-mailed Actrix support about it earlier today.
    >>
    >> The evidence points to a change in news servers in the delivery chain.
    >> Prior to the evening of 30 September, Actrix was getting a fair number
    >> of overseas sourced articles from diablo.efnet.com. After that point,
    >> they were mostly coming from newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz, and this coincides
    >> with random articles not arriving.
    >>
    >> I have evidence of articles from selected people having a high
    >> probability of not arriving at Actrix. Overall I'd say there is about
    >> a 20% rate of article loss in the last week, but some posters
    >> (originating servers) are affected worse than others (EMB is one in
    >> this group; his server is news01.wxnz.net).
    >>
    >> I suspect Actrix changed who they are peering with, which resulted in
    >> most news traffic travelling via ihug to get to Actrix. Perhaps Actrix
    >> isn't peering with anyone other than ihug, and ihug's feed is spotty.
    >>
    >> Since the missing articles haven't turned up after several days, I'm
    >> more inclined to suspect a buggy news server somewhere which isn't
    >> exchanging the missing articles.

    >
    > Thanks for confirmation David. I'm now downloading nz.comp and nz.general
    > via both Actrix and x-privat and x-privat is pulling in around 15% more
    > posts than Actrix. (Both using my same killfile.)
    >
    > It was posts by EMB and Peter Huebner missing that made me realise something
    > was amiss.
    >
    > As you've contacted them I guess I'll just keep downloading both groups
    > through both providers until I see Actrix' count equalling x-privat's.
    > (Actrix is so much quicker for me so it'd be good if they get their shit
    > together again.)
    >

    NNTP is the most unreliable of all the Internet protocols. It works by a
    peer to peer sharing network ('A' receives a news article, passes it to
    'B' who passes it to 'C'). More correctly 'B' *pulls* from 'A'. If B
    pulls from A infrequently some of A's articles may expire before B asks
    for them. B may decide to pull down articles older than a certain date,
    not knowing that an article has arrived with an earlier date. All
    *sorts* of things can go wrong, especially if the News Admins have
    things set up differently. It's a wonder *anything* gets through. I
    would not blame Actrix too quickly - they may be having trouble with
    their first upline.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Tax is not theft.
    Enkidu, Oct 7, 2008
    #6
  7. In article <48e6b320$>, y says...
    > > Possibly 'The Merchants of Amsterdam' by Rainer Knizia.

    >
    > looks interesting as well...
    >
    > http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/531
    >


    We've just given the 'Merchants' another outing at our fortnightly
    boardgames meet, and this is *definitely* a game that stimilates the
    mathematical neurons ;-) There is any old number of scoring phases in
    the game, and operations like 80k+40k divided by 3 players occur
    frequently ... (no calculators allowed!).

    B.t.w. I have edited the entry on boargamegeek w.r.t. a more realistic
    use of the auction clock, which does not work well as described in the
    instructions (mayhem ensues), and playtime.

    ----

    Another game has also just come to mind: an Australian Monopoly clone
    called 'Squatter'. It's all about sheep farming (lol) but unlike
    monopoly it's not player vs. player, it's everybody against the bank,
    the dice (and the inclement climate). Lots of multiplications (how much
    is 15 pens of sheep at $680) and (how much is 20% of $7600) come up all
    the time. The game comes with some calculation tables, but one can
    tease the others into doing the calculations in their heads by coming up
    with the answer before they can look it up, I find <grin>.

    I saw last year that the game has been reprinted, you should be able to
    track a copy down moderately easily.

    -Peter
    Peter Huebner, Oct 8, 2008
    #7
  8. Peter Huebner

    David Empson Guest

    Re: NNTP Actrix/Xnet problems? Was: Re: Looking for games for kids 10~12

    Enkidu <> wrote:

    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    > > Somewhere on teh intarwebs "David Empson" typed:
    > >> I'll second the theory that Actrix has a problem with their news feed.
    > >>
    > >> I've noticed random missing posts in every newsgroup for the last week
    > >> or so. I e-mailed Actrix support about it earlier today.
    > >>

    [snip]
    > >
    > > Thanks for confirmation David. I'm now downloading nz.comp and nz.general
    > > via both Actrix and x-privat and x-privat is pulling in around 15% more
    > > posts than Actrix. (Both using my same killfile.)
    > >
    > > It was posts by EMB and Peter Huebner missing that made me realise something
    > > was amiss.
    > >
    > > As you've contacted them I guess I'll just keep downloading both groups
    > > through both providers until I see Actrix' count equalling x-privat's.
    > > (Actrix is so much quicker for me so it'd be good if they get their shit
    > > together again.)
    > >

    > NNTP is the most unreliable of all the Internet protocols. It works by a
    > peer to peer sharing network ('A' receives a news article, passes it to
    > 'B' who passes it to 'C'). More correctly 'B' *pulls* from 'A'. If B
    > pulls from A infrequently some of A's articles may expire before B asks
    > for them. B may decide to pull down articles older than a certain date,
    > not knowing that an article has arrived with an earlier date. All
    > *sorts* of things can go wrong, especially if the News Admins have
    > things set up differently. It's a wonder *anything* gets through. I
    > would not blame Actrix too quickly - they may be having trouble with
    > their first upline.


    Acknowledged.

    I can't see this being anything to do with article expiry, unless
    someone upline from Actrix has their expiry timer set in the order of an
    hour or less for nz.comp.

    If I fetch news two or three times a day, I get articles dating back to
    the previous fetch (and some earlier ones that hadn't arrived at Actrix
    yet), but with frequent gaps in threads that have sequential responses.

    For example, in the recent thread here titled "Open Source Account
    Software - Any Ideas?", I have a pattern of missing and received
    articles from EMB which span a four hour period on the evening of 30th
    September.

    The subthread starts with article <48e1ce5b$> at
    19:58:38, which I did receive. I'm missing his followups with these IDs
    (which I can detect because there was a later followup from others):

    <48e1f2c8$>
    <>
    <48e1fda6$>

    I did receive one later article from EMB on that subthread:
    <48e1fd44$>. This was posted at 23:19:48. One of the
    missing articles was posted by EMB less than 20 minutes earlier.

    This looks more like some kind of queue overflow problem where some
    incoming messages from a particular server are being discarded, and then
    aren't being fetched either from the same server or a different one.

    Perhaps someone's server is running out of disk space.

    --
    David Empson
    David Empson, Oct 8, 2008
    #8
  9. Peter Huebner

    David Empson Guest

    Re: NNTP Actrix/Xnet problems? Was: Re: Looking for games for kids 10~12

    ~misfit~ <> wrote:

    > Somewhere on teh intarwebs "David Empson" typed:
    >
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > > Perhaps someone's server is running out of disk space.

    >
    > Excellent documentation David. Have you heard back form Actrix?


    No, nothing yet, and I'm pretty sure the problem is still there.

    I'll give them a call on Thursday.

    --
    David Empson
    David Empson, Oct 8, 2008
    #9
  10. Re: NNTP Actrix/Xnet problems? Was: Re: Looking for games for kids 10~12

    ~misfit~ <> wrote:
    [snip]
    > Thanks for confirmation David. I'm now downloading nz.comp and nz.general
    > via both Actrix and x-privat and x-privat is pulling in around 15% more
    > posts than Actrix. (Both using my same killfile.)
    >
    > It was posts by EMB and Peter Huebner missing that made me realise something
    > was amiss.
    >
    > As you've contacted them I guess I'll just keep downloading both groups
    > through both providors until I see Actrix' count equaling x-privat's.
    > (Actrix is so much quicker for me so it'd be good if they get their shit
    > together again.)
    >
    > Cheers,


    I'd switch to another Usenet provider like News.Individual.NET IIWY.
    ISP's generally do a crap job.
    --
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
    Jamie Kahn Genet, Oct 8, 2008
    #10
  11. Peter Huebner

    David Empson Guest

    Re: NNTP Actrix/Xnet problems? Was: Re: Looking for games for kids 10~12

    Jamie Kahn Genet <> wrote:

    > ~misfit~ <> wrote:
    > [snip]
    > > Thanks for confirmation David. I'm now downloading nz.comp and nz.general
    > > via both Actrix and x-privat and x-privat is pulling in around 15% more
    > > posts than Actrix. (Both using my same killfile.)
    > >
    > > It was posts by EMB and Peter Huebner missing that made me realise something
    > > was amiss.
    > >
    > > As you've contacted them I guess I'll just keep downloading both groups
    > > through both providors until I see Actrix' count equaling x-privat's.
    > > (Actrix is so much quicker for me so it'd be good if they get their shit
    > > together again.)

    >
    > I'd switch to another Usenet provider like News.Individual.NET IIWY.
    > ISP's generally do a crap job.


    Actrix has been doing a great job as a news server since I started using
    it around 1993. They lost binary groups a few years back, but that
    doesn't concern me. It has just struck a problem in the last couple of
    weeks, which might not even be their fault.

    I see no point paying for a news account elsewhere if my ISP is
    (normally) doing just fine.

    --
    David Empson
    David Empson, Oct 9, 2008
    #11
  12. Peter Huebner

    David Empson Guest

    Re: NNTP Actrix/Xnet problems? Was: Re: Looking for games for kids 10~12

    ~misfit~ <> wrote:

    > Somewhere on teh intarwebs "David Empson" typed:
    > > ~misfit~ <> wrote:
    > >> Somewhere on teh intarwebs "David Empson" typed:
    > >>
    > >> [snip]
    > >>
    > >>> Perhaps someone's server is running out of disk space.
    > >>
    > >> Excellent documentation David. Have you heard back form Actrix?

    > >
    > > No, nothing yet, and I'm pretty sure the problem is still there.

    >
    > It seems to be still there from here too. X-privat downloaded 15 more posts
    > in nz.comp than Actrix did this morning.
    >
    > > I'll give them a call on Thursday.

    >
    > Good man.


    Called, nothing to report yet. They have a technician investigating. I
    passed on my theory about a news server (either theirs or one upstream)
    running out of disk space.

    --
    David Empson
    David Empson, Oct 9, 2008
    #12
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