Re: LINUX

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Allistar, Aug 14, 2003.

  1. Allistar

    Allistar Guest

    Peter wrote:

    > Can anyone tell me how much new learning is there to using Linux instead
    > of MS
    > have Mandrake 9 ut am not too sure if I know what to do and how to use it
    > as some have told me it is like having to learn a whole new
    > language...????


    It's just a different way of doing things (and some things that you have
    taken for granted, like how in Linux there is no "c" drive and no "a"
    drive. Cutting and pasting is done differently).

    The biggest thing I have discovered is how much more control and flexibility
    you now have over how your computer operates.

    I went for dual boot initially and last month donated my Windows partition
    to Linux as I hadn't booted into Windows for over 4 months. I now use Linux
    at work as well.

    I use Mandrake 9.1 and would recommend it to anyone willing to try.

    My only gripe is hardware support (and that's not a fault of Linux, more of
    the hardware vendors for not cooperating by opening up their
    specifications).

    Allistar.
     
    Allistar, Aug 14, 2003
    #1
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  2. Allistar

    cowboyz Guest

    "Allistar" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:_J_a.11490$...
    > Peter wrote:
    >
    > > Can anyone tell me how much new learning is there to using Linux instead
    > > of MS
    > > have Mandrake 9 ut am not too sure if I know what to do and how to use

    it
    > > as some have told me it is like having to learn a whole new
    > > language...????

    >
    > It's just a different way of doing things (and some things that you have
    > taken for granted, like how in Linux there is no "c" drive and no "a"
    > drive. Cutting and pasting is done differently).
    >
    > The biggest thing I have discovered is how much more control and

    flexibility
    > you now have over how your computer operates.
    >
    > I went for dual boot initially and last month donated my Windows partition
    > to Linux as I hadn't booted into Windows for over 4 months. I now use

    Linux
    > at work as well.
    >
    > I use Mandrake 9.1 and would recommend it to anyone willing to try.
    >
    > My only gripe is hardware support (and that's not a fault of Linux, more

    of
    > the hardware vendors for not cooperating by opening up their
    > specifications).
    >
    > Allistar.


    It is certainly different and ALOT more complicated. Do not go into it
    'comparing' it to windows. The whole structure is completely different and
    you will run into brick wall after brick wall. Install as many devel
    packs you can find on the initial install because *everything* you want to
    do will have to be built. This is one of the things that Linux gurus will
    tell you is so great where I just found it a big pain in the arse. If
    Linux don't like your hardware then your in for a real learning cliff.
    Definitely dual boot. I spent a month working on Mandrake 9.1 and getting
    it setup and can pretty much do everything that my winXP can do (besides
    playing games) but I choose to go back to XP. For me it is easier and
    takes care of all the stuff that I don't want to worry about.

    ** This is from my personal experience with Linux Mandrake 9.1 and in my
    personal view it is more complicated and less intuative than Windows XP. I
    choose, after experimenting and giving Mandrake 9.1 a fair chance, to use
    Microsoft windows XP and choose to pay the price that ensures trouble-free
    computing for those who use my computer. This should be in no way
    enterpreted as a flamewar against the beloved Linux.

    --
    "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."
     
    cowboyz, Aug 14, 2003
    #2
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  3. Allistar

    M Guest

    "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    news:bhfsh3$il2$...
    > "Allistar" <> wrote in message
    > news:eek:_J_a.11490$...
    > > Peter wrote:
    > >
    > > > Can anyone tell me how much new learning is there to using Linux

    instead
    > > > of MS
    > > > have Mandrake 9 ut am not too sure if I know what to do and how to use

    > it
    > > > as some have told me it is like having to learn a whole new
    > > > language...????

    > >
    > > It's just a different way of doing things (and some things that you have
    > > taken for granted, like how in Linux there is no "c" drive and no "a"
    > > drive. Cutting and pasting is done differently).
    > >
    > > The biggest thing I have discovered is how much more control and

    > flexibility
    > > you now have over how your computer operates.
    > >
    > > I went for dual boot initially and last month donated my Windows

    partition
    > > to Linux as I hadn't booted into Windows for over 4 months. I now use

    > Linux
    > > at work as well.
    > >
    > > I use Mandrake 9.1 and would recommend it to anyone willing to try.
    > >
    > > My only gripe is hardware support (and that's not a fault of Linux, more

    > of
    > > the hardware vendors for not cooperating by opening up their
    > > specifications).
    > >
    > > Allistar.

    >
    > It is certainly different and ALOT more complicated. Do not go into it
    > 'comparing' it to windows. The whole structure is completely different

    and
    > you will run into brick wall after brick wall. Install as many devel
    > packs you can find on the initial install because *everything* you want to
    > do will have to be built. This is one of the things that Linux gurus

    will

    Not true at all. Compiling everything is not at all necessary. Using Debian
    or Redhat gives you access to packages (.deb and .rpm) which do not need
    compilation.

    The suggestion that you start with a Knoppix CD is excellent. By far the
    best way to run linux the first time, and an excellent tool for emergency
    repair of any system.

    Any major operating system provides the opportunity to do more learning than
    any one person is capable of. How much you need to learn depends on what you
    want to do with the computer. Knoppix drops you straight into a well rounded
    GUI with a wide range of applications and tools. You should only need to
    delve into the underlying Operating System if you are intending to do system
    style things which tend to be generally impossible under Windows anyway
    unless you pay more megabucks to access the privileged documentation.

    http://www.knoppix.org/

    > tell you is so great where I just found it a big pain in the arse. If
    > Linux don't like your hardware then your in for a real learning cliff.
    > Definitely dual boot. I spent a month working on Mandrake 9.1 and

    getting
    > it setup and can pretty much do everything that my winXP can do (besides
    > playing games) but I choose to go back to XP. For me it is easier and
    > takes care of all the stuff that I don't want to worry about.
    >
    > ** This is from my personal experience with Linux Mandrake 9.1 and in my
    > personal view it is more complicated and less intuative than Windows XP.

    I
    > choose, after experimenting and giving Mandrake 9.1 a fair chance, to use
    > Microsoft windows XP and choose to pay the price that ensures trouble-free
    > computing for those who use my computer. This should be in no way


    Superb irony ;)

    > enterpreted as a flamewar against the beloved Linux.
    >
    > --
    > "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."
    >
    >
     
    M, Aug 14, 2003
    #3
  4. "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    news:bhfsh3$il2$...
    > It is certainly different and ALOT more complicated. Do not go into it
    > 'comparing' it to windows. The whole structure is completely different

    and
    > you will run into brick wall after brick wall. Install as many devel
    > packs you can find on the initial install because *everything* you want to
    > do will have to be built. This is one of the things that Linux gurus

    will
    > tell you is so great where I just found it a big pain in the arse. If
    > Linux don't like your hardware then your in for a real learning cliff.
    > Definitely dual boot. I spent a month working on Mandrake 9.1 and

    getting
    > it setup and can pretty much do everything that my winXP can do (besides
    > playing games) but I choose to go back to XP. For me it is easier and
    > takes care of all the stuff that I don't want to worry about.


    Well, I installed Mandrake 9.1 without *ever* having to go to the
    commandline except to "Log in". I never built anything myself. Running the
    "Update" program meant that I could have the latest versions of all of my
    packages, just like the "Windows Update" feature, but they're not just
    bugfixes :).

    Cheers,
    Nicholas Sherlock
     
    Nicholas Sherlock, Aug 14, 2003
    #4
  5. Allistar

    cowboyz Guest

    "M" <> wrote in message
    news:j_Q_a.11533$...
    > "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    > news:bhfsh3$il2$...
    > > "Allistar" <> wrote in message
    > > news:eek:_J_a.11490$...
    > > > Peter wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Can anyone tell me how much new learning is there to using Linux

    > instead
    > > > > of MS
    > > > > have Mandrake 9 ut am not too sure if I know what to do and how to

    use
    > > it
    > > > > as some have told me it is like having to learn a whole new
    > > > > language...????
    > > >
    > > > It's just a different way of doing things (and some things that you

    have
    > > > taken for granted, like how in Linux there is no "c" drive and no "a"
    > > > drive. Cutting and pasting is done differently).
    > > >
    > > > The biggest thing I have discovered is how much more control and

    > > flexibility
    > > > you now have over how your computer operates.
    > > >
    > > > I went for dual boot initially and last month donated my Windows

    > partition
    > > > to Linux as I hadn't booted into Windows for over 4 months. I now use

    > > Linux
    > > > at work as well.
    > > >
    > > > I use Mandrake 9.1 and would recommend it to anyone willing to try.
    > > >
    > > > My only gripe is hardware support (and that's not a fault of Linux,

    more
    > > of
    > > > the hardware vendors for not cooperating by opening up their
    > > > specifications).
    > > >
    > > > Allistar.

    > >
    > > It is certainly different and ALOT more complicated. Do not go into it
    > > 'comparing' it to windows. The whole structure is completely different

    > and
    > > you will run into brick wall after brick wall. Install as many devel
    > > packs you can find on the initial install because *everything* you want

    to
    > > do will have to be built. This is one of the things that Linux gurus

    > will
    >
    > Not true at all. Compiling everything is not at all necessary. Using

    Debian
    > or Redhat gives you access to packages (.deb and .rpm) which do not need
    > compilation.


    Havent used Debian or redhat but Mandrake uses .rpms as well. And then we
    start the dependancy war. You can say, just click on the package and it
    will download and install everything you need. Not so true at all. In
    fact, it is click on the package and then get a pen and paper cause you will
    need it to list the dependancy issues and wrong version numbers, other
    things that need to be updated first which of course, will require you to
    update something else first. I had to get a pillow to sit on so I could see
    the monitor over all my notes.
    In saying that, there is something rewarding about seeing the OS running.
    The best way I have ever seen it described was "think of it as an adventure
    game that doubles as an OS." I have noticed that browing and downloading
    are noticeably quicker using Konquerer rather than IE. using my satelite.
    Multitasking and throwing windows around the screen is smoother and quicker.
    I just wish it was easier to install new stuff.


    ><snipped>


    > > tell you is so great where I just found it a big pain in the arse. If
    > > Linux don't like your hardware then your in for a real learning cliff.
    > > Definitely dual boot. I spent a month working on Mandrake 9.1 and

    > getting
    > > it setup and can pretty much do everything that my winXP can do (besides
    > > playing games) but I choose to go back to XP. For me it is easier and
    > > takes care of all the stuff that I don't want to worry about.
    > >
    > > ** This is from my personal experience with Linux Mandrake 9.1 and in my
    > > personal view it is more complicated and less intuative than Windows XP.

    > I
    > > choose, after experimenting and giving Mandrake 9.1 a fair chance, to

    use
    > > Microsoft windows XP and choose to pay the price that ensures

    trouble-free
    > > computing for those who use my computer. This should be in no way

    >
    > Superb irony ;)


    ironic? Not really. I don't mind if MS want to make five hundred billion
    dollars a year out of their OS. I don't mind if they have issues with their
    software, providing they are willing to contiune working and releasing
    patches for problems that arise. All this "you HAVE to download
    6539257987Meg of update for windows simply isn't true either. I have
    installed 1 patch since installing XP over a year ago and that was for this
    current bug that is running round. Took an hour and no worries. Go on,
    complain about how insecure my box is but at the end of the day I do not
    need it to be secure. If you want to jump into my box and change things I
    will change them back. With the exception of the current bug running round
    I have never had a problem with anyone hacking/breaking./compromising my
    machine and if they did they wouldn't find any more information about me
    than what they would get reading newsgroups so I really don't care.
    Again, I am not Pro MS or anti Linux. Just anti -Linux-advocates.


    >
    > > enterpreted as a flamewar against the beloved Linux.
    > >
    > > --
    > > "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    cowboyz, Aug 15, 2003
    #5
  6. Allistar

    cowboyz Guest

    "Nicholas Sherlock" <> wrote in message
    news:bhgns2$5oi$...
    > "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    > news:bhfsh3$il2$...
    > > It is certainly different and ALOT more complicated. Do not go into it
    > > 'comparing' it to windows. The whole structure is completely different

    > and
    > > you will run into brick wall after brick wall. Install as many devel
    > > packs you can find on the initial install because *everything* you want

    to
    > > do will have to be built. This is one of the things that Linux gurus

    > will
    > > tell you is so great where I just found it a big pain in the arse. If
    > > Linux don't like your hardware then your in for a real learning cliff.
    > > Definitely dual boot. I spent a month working on Mandrake 9.1 and

    > getting
    > > it setup and can pretty much do everything that my winXP can do (besides
    > > playing games) but I choose to go back to XP. For me it is easier and
    > > takes care of all the stuff that I don't want to worry about.

    >
    > Well, I installed Mandrake 9.1 without *ever* having to go to the
    > commandline except to "Log in". I never built anything myself. Running the
    > "Update" program meant that I could have the latest versions of all of my
    > packages, just like the "Windows Update" feature, but they're not just
    > bugfixes :).
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Nicholas Sherlock


    My grandma says the same using windows 98 when she is typing her emails.
     
    cowboyz, Aug 15, 2003
    #6
  7. Allistar

    AD. Guest

    On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:26:07 +1200, cowboyz wrote:

    > Go on,
    > complain about how insecure my box is but at the end of the day I do not
    > need it to be secure. If you want to jump into my box and change things
    > I will change them back. With the exception of the current bug running
    > round I have never had a problem with anyone
    > hacking/breaking./compromising my machine and if they did they wouldn't
    > find any more information about me than what they would get reading
    > newsgroups so I really don't care.


    I think you're a little naive as to the potential consequences of being
    compromised. You wouldn't know what they have installed, and you could be
    on the receiving end of very large traffic bills and have cracking
    complaints made against you.

    If one of my machines got rooted, I'd certainly wouldn't trust it again -
    it would be formatted pretty quickly. And that goes for any OS.

    There are plenty of vulnerabilities with the same consequences as the
    current RPC one. I'd get everything patched.

    > Again, I am not Pro MS or anti Linux. Just anti -Linux-advocates.


    Advocates or zealots?

    You probably wouldn't have got much running without the help of
    'advocates'. :)

    Cheers
    Anton
     
    AD., Aug 15, 2003
    #7
  8. Allistar

    cowboyz Guest

    "AD." <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:26:07 +1200, cowboyz wrote:
    >
    > > Go on,
    > > complain about how insecure my box is but at the end of the day I do not
    > > need it to be secure. If you want to jump into my box and change things
    > > I will change them back. With the exception of the current bug running
    > > round I have never had a problem with anyone
    > > hacking/breaking./compromising my machine and if they did they wouldn't
    > > find any more information about me than what they would get reading
    > > newsgroups so I really don't care.

    >
    > I think you're a little naive as to the potential consequences of being
    > compromised. You wouldn't know what they have installed, and you could be
    > on the receiving end of very large traffic bills and have cracking
    > complaints made against you.


    I look at it as a bit like burgularly. What are the REAL chances? I run a
    firewall and virus scanner for years and never saw as much as a peep from
    anyone.

    >
    > If one of my machines got rooted, I'd certainly wouldn't trust it again -
    > it would be formatted pretty quickly. And that goes for any OS.
    >
    > There are plenty of vulnerabilities with the same consequences as the
    > current RPC one. I'd get everything patched.
    >
    > > Again, I am not Pro MS or anti Linux. Just anti -Linux-advocates.

    >
    > Advocates or zealots?
    >
    > You probably wouldn't have got much running without the help of
    > 'advocates'. :)
    >
    > Cheers
    > Anton


    oh, don't get me wrong there. I definitely thank and appreciate the help
    from those who helped getting mandrake up and running. You are right in
    saying that I wouldn't have got it running without help. The difference is
    that no-one was actually "right" I took some info from several people and
    ended up building my own module to get it running. This is what I call a
    flaw in Linux. If you ask 10 windows users (who know what they are doing)
    how to do something then you will get 1 answer. Ask 10 Linux gurus how to
    do something and you'll get 10 half answers and told to RTFM. All the half
    answers will be different and 4 of them will completely contradict the
    others. 2 of these will be partly right and 1 of the other 6 will be
    completely wrong.

    --
    "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."
     
    cowboyz, Aug 15, 2003
    #8
  9. Allistar

    Peter Guest

    this quote is from cowboyz of Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:26 :
    >
    > Havent used Debian or redhat but Mandrake uses .rpms as well. And then we
    > start the dependancy war. You can say, just click on the package and it
    > will download and install everything you need. Not so true at all. In
    > fact, it is click on the package and then get a pen and paper cause you
    > will need it to list the dependancy issues and wrong version numbers,


    I've used Linux for a couple of years (Redhat and Mandrake) and haven't seen
    any problems like this. Dependency issues only arise if you want to
    install something way different to what you have already installed. A
    distro like Mandrake has _lots_ of apps - if you stick to these, you
    shouldn't have any dependency problems.

    Sometimes you may need to use other apps, and there are tools to sort the
    dependencies for you. On Mandrake, there is the GUI software tool in the
    MDK control centre, and there is urpmi. (On Debian, I think that apt does
    this for you.)


    Peter
     
    Peter, Aug 15, 2003
    #9
  10. Allistar

    cowboyz Guest

    "Peter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > this quote is from cowboyz of Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:26 :
    > >
    > > Havent used Debian or redhat but Mandrake uses .rpms as well. And then

    we
    > > start the dependancy war. You can say, just click on the package and

    it
    > > will download and install everything you need. Not so true at all.

    In
    > > fact, it is click on the package and then get a pen and paper cause you
    > > will need it to list the dependancy issues and wrong version numbers,

    >
    > I've used Linux for a couple of years (Redhat and Mandrake) and haven't

    seen
    > any problems like this.


    My girlfriend has been driving for 14 years and has never used the rear
    window demister.

    >Dependency issues only arise if you want to
    > install something way different to what you have already installed.


    Are you kidding? Are you actually suggesting that one stick to what they
    are given "out of the box" to remain trouble free? Isn't this the big
    "selling" point for Linux? That it is so powerful and configureable?
    > A
    > distro like Mandrake has _lots_ of apps - if you stick to these, you
    > shouldn't have any dependency problems.


    Lots is a big subjective but it has a few. I wanted to rip and convert DVD
    though. No programs installed on default to do that.

    >
    > Sometimes you may need to use other apps, and there are tools to sort the
    > dependencies for you. On Mandrake, there is the GUI software tool in the
    > MDK control centre,


    Thats where I got tidied up with dependancy issues! It does try hard but
    fails to sort out all the dependancies required.

    >and there is urpmi.


    And that too.

    >(On Debian, I think that apt does
    > this for you.)
    >

    Not willing to take on the battle with Debian.

    >
    > Peter
    >


    For what it is worth, I solved all the dependancy issues myself manually but
    it is not a walk in the park.



    --
    "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."
     
    cowboyz, Aug 15, 2003
    #10
  11. Allistar

    Enkidu Guest

    On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 21:44:57 +1200, "cowboyz" <>
    wrote:
    >
    >"Peter" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> this quote is from cowboyz of Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:26 :
    >> >
    >> > Havent used Debian or redhat but Mandrake uses .rpms as well. And then
    >> > we start the dependancy war. You can say, just click on the package and
    >> > it will download and install everything you need. Not so true at all.
    >> > In fact, it is click on the package and then get a pen and paper cause you
    >> > will need it to list the dependancy issues and wrong version numbers,

    >>
    >> I've used Linux for a couple of years (Redhat and Mandrake) and haven't
    >> seen any problems like this.

    >
    >My girlfriend has been driving for 14 years and has never used the rear
    >window demister.
    >
    >> Dependency issues only arise if you want to install something way different
    >> to what you have already installed.

    >
    >Are you kidding? Are you actually suggesting that one stick to what they
    >are given "out of the box" to remain trouble free? Isn't this the big
    >"selling" point for Linux? That it is so powerful and configureable?
    >

    That's not the same as sticking to "out of the box" packages. However,
    the RH distributions contains almost anything you might want.

    >> A distro like Mandrake has _lots_ of apps - if you stick to these, you
    >> shouldn't have any dependency problems.

    >
    >Lots is a big subjective but it has a few. I wanted to rip and convert DVD
    >though. No programs installed on default to do that.
    >

    There's no default program, no, but if you looked you'd almost
    cetainly find some.
    >>
    >> Sometimes you may need to use other apps, and there are tools to sort the
    >> dependencies for you. On Mandrake, there is the GUI software tool in the
    >> MDK control centre,

    >
    >Thats where I got tidied up with dependancy issues! It does try hard but
    >fails to sort out all the dependancies required.
    >

    RPM DOES sort out the dependencies. I presume that these GUI tools are
    front ends to RPMIf the dependencies can't be resolved, then the
    package is broken. The one and only time I had dependency problems in
    several years of use was when I wanted a Mandrake rpm that wasn't in
    the RH distribution. Don't install any package that requires you to
    force the package on. It's broken.
    >
    >For what it is worth, I solved all the dependancy issues myself manually but
    >it is not a walk in the park.
    >

    You can practically guarantee that it will come back and bite you on
    the bum later.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    Signed and sealed with Great Seal of the Executive
    Council of the Internet, by The Master of The Net.
     
    Enkidu, Aug 16, 2003
    #11
  12. Allistar

    Peter Guest

    this quote is from cowboyz of Fri, 15 Aug 2003 21:44 :
    > Are you kidding? Are you actually suggesting that one stick to what they
    > are given "out of the box" to remain trouble free? Isn't this the big
    > "selling" point for Linux? That it is so powerful and configureable?


    The point is that you can install a very wide range of apps out of a distro
    without any dependency problems.
    Yes, you can go further, installing other apps, or even writing your own.
    This takes a little more skill and attention, depending what you want to
    do. (But it is not necessary for most ordinary users.)

    > I wanted to rip and convert DVD though. No programs installed on default
    > to do that.


    We got that up and running on my son's PC (runs MDK9.1) without any trouble.
    It's not in the distro, but installed ok.


    You sound quite skilled on Microsoft stuff. However, Linux is different.
    It won't do what you want if you use your MS skills, and learning the Linux
    way of things does take some time. IMHO it is well worth it.


    Peter
     
    Peter, Aug 16, 2003
    #12
  13. Allistar

    cowboyz Guest

    "Enkidu" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 21:44:57 +1200, "cowboyz" <>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > >"Peter" <> wrote in message
    > >news:...
    > >> this quote is from cowboyz of Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:26 :
    > >> >
    > >> > Havent used Debian or redhat but Mandrake uses .rpms as well. And

    then
    > >> > we start the dependancy war. You can say, just click on the package

    and
    > >> > it will download and install everything you need. Not so true at

    all.
    > >> > In fact, it is click on the package and then get a pen and paper

    cause you
    > >> > will need it to list the dependancy issues and wrong version numbers,
    > >>
    > >> I've used Linux for a couple of years (Redhat and Mandrake) and haven't
    > >> seen any problems like this.

    > >
    > >My girlfriend has been driving for 14 years and has never used the rear
    > >window demister.
    > >
    > >> Dependency issues only arise if you want to install something way

    different
    > >> to what you have already installed.

    > >
    > >Are you kidding? Are you actually suggesting that one stick to what they
    > >are given "out of the box" to remain trouble free? Isn't this the big
    > >"selling" point for Linux? That it is so powerful and configureable?
    > >

    > That's not the same as sticking to "out of the box" packages. However,
    > the RH distributions contains almost anything you might want.
    >
    > >> A distro like Mandrake has _lots_ of apps - if you stick to these, you
    > >> shouldn't have any dependency problems.

    > >
    > >Lots is a big subjective but it has a few. I wanted to rip and convert

    DVD
    > >though. No programs installed on default to do that.
    > >

    > There's no default program, no, but if you looked you'd almost
    > cetainly find some.



    I did. using RPMDrake. DVDrip, Drip and transcode and ffmpeg I think it
    was called which was the one I used but it was only a command line with no
    GUI and I got sick of looking at text. DVDrip had a HEAP of dependancy
    issues. Drip and transcode had a few. All installed through RPMDrake and
    all falled to sort themselves out.

    > >>
    > >> Sometimes you may need to use other apps, and there are tools to sort

    the
    > >> dependencies for you. On Mandrake, there is the GUI software tool in

    the
    > >> MDK control centre,


    Yes RPMDrake.

    > >
    > >Thats where I got tidied up with dependancy issues! It does try hard but
    > >fails to sort out all the dependancies required.
    > >

    > RPM DOES sort out the dependencies. I presume that these GUI tools are
    > front ends to RPMIf the dependencies can't be resolved, then the
    > package is broken. The one and only time I had dependency problems in
    > several years of use was when I wanted a Mandrake rpm that wasn't in
    > the RH distribution. Don't install any package that requires you to
    > force the package on. It's broken.


    I would think it would tell you the package is broken wouldn't it?

    > >
    > >For what it is worth, I solved all the dependancy issues myself manually

    but
    > >it is not a walk in the park.
    > >

    > You can practically guarantee that it will come back and bite you on
    > the bum later.


    Hope not.

    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff
    > --
    >
    > Signed and sealed with Great Seal of the Executive
    > Council of the Internet, by The Master of The Net.



    --
    "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."
     
    cowboyz, Aug 16, 2003
    #13
  14. Allistar

    T.N.O Guest

    "Peter" wrote
    | I've used Linux for a couple of years (Redhat and Mandrake) and haven't
    seen
    | any problems like this. Dependency issues only arise if you want to
    | install something way different to what you have already installed.

    Just to kick you in the teeth, try doing a standard redhat "workstation"
    install, then after the machine has finished the install, add the "kernel
    source" and see what happens, you get given a list of dependencies, fucking
    annoying, all I wanted was the kernal source to install a freaking modem, a
    modem, and now I have a list of dependencies that arent even on the freaking
    CD..

    This is an example, I have since got all of them and installed it, but
    still.
     
    T.N.O, Aug 16, 2003
    #14
  15. Allistar

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:14:01 +1200, "T.N.O" <> wrote:

    >"Peter" wrote
    >| I've used Linux for a couple of years (Redhat and Mandrake) and haven't
    >seen
    >| any problems like this. Dependency issues only arise if you want to
    >| install something way different to what you have already installed.
    >
    >Just to kick you in the teeth, try doing a standard redhat "workstation"
    >install, then after the machine has finished the install, add the "kernel
    >source" and see what happens, you get given a list of dependencies, fucking
    >annoying, all I wanted was the kernal source to install a freaking modem, a
    >modem, and now I have a list of dependencies that arent even on the freaking
    >CD..
    >
    >This is an example, I have since got all of them and installed it, but
    >still.
    >

    Heh! I did exactly that the other day, and got no problems whatsoever.
    I can only assume that you didn't install any of the development
    tools, and that you installed a later version of the kernel than the
    one on the CD. I also suppose you are using RPM or one of the GUI
    frontends. up2date is better.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    Signed and sealed with Great Seal of the Executive
    Council of the Internet, by The Master of The Net.
     
    Enkidu, Aug 17, 2003
    #15
  16. Allistar

    T.N.O Guest

    "Enkidu" wrote
    > Heh! I did exactly that the other day, and got no problems whatsoever.


    Congrats.

    > I can only assume that you didn't install any of the development
    > tools


    Correct... Im not doing any development, so figured that it would save on
    hdd space.

    > , and that you installed a later version of the kernel than the
    > one on the CD.


    nope, using 2.4.2-10 or something... the one from the CD, I had no internet
    so couldn't update anything.
    I needed interent to get the files needed to get internet... bugger, went
    back to Windows, downloaded the files it asked for, then it said that I had
    to get more, and those intern asked for more, until I had about 25MB of
    files sitting there on my windows partition.

    Surely a simple, install this from the CD and grab all necessary
    dependencies wouldn't have been hard to make?

    > I also suppose you are using RPM or one of the GUI
    > frontends. up2date is better.


    yep, while I learn, that's how I'll keep it.
     
    T.N.O, Aug 17, 2003
    #16
  17. Allistar

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 12:14:11 +1200, "T.N.O" <> wrote:

    >"Enkidu" wrote
    >> Heh! I did exactly that the other day, and got no problems whatsoever.

    >
    >Congrats.
    >
    >> I can only assume that you didn't install any of the development
    >> tools

    >
    >Correct... Im not doing any development, so figured that it would save on
    >hdd space.
    >
    >> , and that you installed a later version of the kernel than the
    >> one on the CD.

    >
    >nope, using 2.4.2-10 or something... the one from the CD, I had no internet
    >so couldn't update anything.
    >I needed interent to get the files needed to get internet... bugger, went
    >back to Windows, downloaded the files it asked for, then it said that I had
    >to get more, and those intern asked for more, until I had about 25MB of
    >files sitting there on my windows partition.
    >
    >Surely a simple, install this from the CD and grab all necessary
    >dependencies wouldn't have been hard to make?
    >

    It is simple if you do it right.

    BTW why did you need the kernel source to get a modem to work? I
    always start off with the generic modem and then update it later.
    Modems don't need to be in the kernel so you would have only needed to
    compile a driver (which I've *never* had to do). To compile a driver,
    all you need is the kernel *headers*.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    Signed and sealed with Great Seal of the Executive
    Council of the Internet, by The Master of The Net.
     
    Enkidu, Aug 17, 2003
    #17
  18. Allistar

    Allistar Guest

    Nicholas Sherlock wrote:

    > "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    > news:bhfsh3$il2$...
    >> It is certainly different and ALOT more complicated. Do not go into it
    >> 'comparing' it to windows. The whole structure is completely different

    > and
    >> you will run into brick wall after brick wall. Install as many devel
    >> packs you can find on the initial install because *everything* you want
    >> to
    >> do will have to be built. This is one of the things that Linux gurus

    > will
    >> tell you is so great where I just found it a big pain in the arse. If
    >> Linux don't like your hardware then your in for a real learning cliff.
    >> Definitely dual boot. I spent a month working on Mandrake 9.1 and

    > getting
    >> it setup and can pretty much do everything that my winXP can do (besides
    >> playing games) but I choose to go back to XP. For me it is easier and
    >> takes care of all the stuff that I don't want to worry about.

    >
    > Well, I installed Mandrake 9.1 without *ever* having to go to the
    > commandline except to "Log in". I never built anything myself. Running the
    > "Update" program meant that I could have the latest versions of all of my
    > packages, just like the "Windows Update" feature, but they're not just
    > bugfixes :).
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Nicholas Sherlock


    Hi Nicholas. You denied a few weeks ago that you were anything but
    "Microsoft all the way". Are you changing your tune? :)

    I'm pleased you has a pain free Mandrake experience.

    Allistar.
     
    Allistar, Aug 17, 2003
    #18
  19. Allistar

    T.N.O Guest

    "Enkidu" wrote
    > BTW why did you need the kernel source to get a modem to work? I
    > always start off with the generic modem and then update it later.
    > Modems don't need to be in the kernel so you would have only needed to
    > compile a driver (which I've *never* had to do). To compile a driver,
    > all you need is the kernel *headers*.


    Intel 536ep modem, in the install make thing it said that I needed the
    kernel source, the kernel headers, and the kernel source headers(from
    memory, I don't remember now)
     
    T.N.O, Aug 17, 2003
    #19
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