Re: Linux desktop failures make it easy for Microsoft

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by victor, May 23, 2010.

  1. victor

    victor Guest

    On 23/05/2010 4:42 a.m., impossible wrote:
    > How does Microsft survive so many blunders?
    >
    > You've got Steve Ballmer now admitting that Microsoft wasted thousands
    > of hours of development time on Vista, trying to make Longhorn leap in
    > innovation, only to retreat to something more like Windows Not Quite 7.
    >
    > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/...ands-of-man-hours-of-innovation-on-vista/8361
    >
    >
    > Can you imagine what would have happened to the desktop software market
    > if one of the scores of Linux distros had even come close to being
    > suitable for a significant share of users during the past 5 years?
    >
    > Alas, no one really cares about operating systems as such. It's all
    > about what the os platform supports in terms of quality applications,
    > and that's the weakness that has always plagued Linux. It's really a
    > shame that this reality hasn't sunk in with nix developers. What good
    > does it do to create an operating system that is just going to be
    > something for techies to play with?


    Microsoft could depend on their OEM contracts regardless of what shit
    they had to brush under the carpet. Thats the weakness that has always
    plagued their users. That and shrink wrapped retail applications is a
    winner takes all market like videotape formats vhs vs beta, there could
    be only one.
    Ballmer is hoping to fool most of the people that Windows 7 disconnects
    Microsoft from their Vista ****-up.
    But the underlying problems are still there.
    Since the mid 80s Microsoft have had one successful product line,
    software for office desktop computers and everything else added was
    peripheral. That's their DNA
    There's nothing fundamentally new in Windows 7 and some of it is change
    for changes sake that is a bit shit.
    Owning an application is becoming an anachronism for most users, the web
    is the platform that matters now. The introduction of AJAX is as
    potentially disastrous for Microsoft's business model as the
    introduction of the mp3 was for record labels.
    No one really cares about operating systems as such, and thats why since
    2004 the killer apps have been Twitter Facebook Google Youtube. They run
    on any OS browser, in the case of ChromeOS the browser is the OS and
    might very well give you the option of running your legacy Windows OS in
    a VM if you can be bothered.
     
    victor, May 23, 2010
    #1
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  2. victor

    victor Guest

    On 24/05/10 05:53, impossible wrote:

    >
    > Who cares? Consumers want Windows -- they have repeatedly rejected
    > freebie distros of Linux.
    >


    They don't care about operating systems as you said.
    They run whatever was in the box.
    The office desktop OS was the platform of the previous generation.
    The web is the platform of the new generation.
    Thats where the opportunities are for developers.
    Not in decades old dads software like Photoshop and Office, that
    opportunity is long gone.
    XP is from 2001 and there has been nothing fundamentally new introduced
    since then, its just coasted along being just good enough for the OEM
    business. Well except for Vista, that hurt vendor sales.
     
    victor, May 23, 2010
    #2
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  3. victor

    victor Guest

    On 24/05/10 23:36, impossible wrote:

    >
    > It's all about the applications. You're up-in-the-clouds concept of
    > getting work (or play) done isn't cutting it.


    Can you get someone to teach you the difference between "you're" and
    "your" ?
     
    victor, May 24, 2010
    #3
  4. victor

    AD. Guest

    On May 25, 4:14 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:
    > Can't you just surrender quietly? There's no need to make a spectacle of
    > yourself.


    So that explains your silence when you get asked to back up your
    claims.

    I didn't realise you'd surrendered. I'll stop asking you for evidence
    now.

    --
    Cheers
    Anton
     
    AD., May 25, 2010
    #4
  5. victor

    Squiggle Guest

    On 23/05/2010 11:43 a.m., victor threw some characters down the intarwebs:

    > Owning an application is becoming an anachronism for most users, the web
    > is the platform that matters now. The introduction of AJAX is as
    > potentially disastrous for Microsoft's business model as the
    > introduction of the mp3 was for record labels.
    > No one really cares about operating systems as such, and thats why since
    > 2004 the killer apps have been Twitter Facebook Google Youtube. They run
    > on any OS browser, in the case of ChromeOS the browser is the OS and
    > might very well give you the option of running your legacy Windows OS in
    > a VM if you can be bothered.



    Heh, lets see you lead the way then, uninstall all the locally installed
    apps on your computer, leaving only the browser and its plugins plus the
    drivers to run your hardware and let us know how you get on.

    I notice that none of the "killer apps" you have mentioned above
    actually have any productive purpose, they are time-wasters/
    entertainment sites.

    Lets hear about all these cloud based apps that people can use to make a
    living doing something productive.
     
    Squiggle, May 25, 2010
    #5
  6. In article <>, Squiggle <> wrote:
    >On 23/05/2010 11:43 a.m., victor threw some characters down the intarwebs:
    >
    >> Owning an application is becoming an anachronism for most users, the web
    >> is the platform that matters now. The introduction of AJAX is as
    >> potentially disastrous for Microsoft's business model as the
    >> introduction of the mp3 was for record labels.
    >> No one really cares about operating systems as such, and thats why since
    >> 2004 the killer apps have been Twitter Facebook Google Youtube. They run
    >> on any OS browser, in the case of ChromeOS the browser is the OS and
    >> might very well give you the option of running your legacy Windows OS in
    >> a VM if you can be bothered.

    >
    >Heh, lets see you lead the way then, uninstall all the locally installed
    >apps on your computer, leaving only the browser and its plugins plus the
    >drivers to run your hardware and let us know how you get on.


    Is anyone actually going to do that ? ... ever ? Will the necessary amount
    of trust (or the lack of regard for privacy ?) ever be that high ? I'm
    amazed by the amount of personal data that people are prepared to give to
    others. But, after the first big meltdown of one of these sites (either
    lost data or given/sold/made available to others), won't that evaporate ? :)



    (snip)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, May 26, 2010
    #6
  7. victor

    Squiggle Guest

    On 26/05/2010 4:12 p.m., Bruce Sinclair threw some characters down the
    intarwebs:
    > In article <>, Squiggle <> wrote:


    >>
    >> Heh, lets see you lead the way then, uninstall all the locally installed
    >> apps on your computer, leaving only the browser and its plugins plus the
    >> drivers to run your hardware and let us know how you get on.

    >
    > Is anyone actually going to do that ? ... ever ? Will the necessary amount
    > of trust (or the lack of regard for privacy ?) ever be that high ? I'm
    > amazed by the amount of personal data that people are prepared to give to
    > others. But, after the first big meltdown of one of these sites (either
    > lost data or given/sold/made available to others), won't that evaporate ? :)
    >



    That is one good reason why the locally installed app will live on for
    the foreseeable future, another is the volume of data that can be
    processed by a locally installed app. High resolution video editing
    with some sort of web client? Bring on those petabit internet
    connections with latency measured in micro-seconds...

    And latency..
     
    Squiggle, May 26, 2010
    #7
  8. victor

    victor Guest

    On 25/05/10 21:17, Squiggle wrote:

    >
    >
    > Heh, lets see you lead the way then, uninstall all the locally installed
    > apps on your computer, leaving only the browser and its plugins plus the
    > drivers to run your hardware and let us know how you get on.
    >
    > I notice that none of the "killer apps" you have mentioned above
    > actually have any productive purpose, they are time-wasters/
    > entertainment sites.
    >
    > Lets hear about all these cloud based apps that people can use to make a
    > living doing something productive.


    OK
    I'm running my businesses admin using Internet banking, Xero accounting,
    Workflow Max, Google Docs, and Dropbox, and I'm evaluating Zoho
    I can definitely share info better to different devices and people for
    quite complex projects than I used to do. I travel quite a bit so having
    everything on a single desktop is inconvenient and having it all on a
    lappy is way too risky and vulnerable to theft and damage. I can
    generate pdf quotes and invoices from my phone or netbook, and its fully
    cross-platform.
    I use 2talk's sip fax service for incoming and outgoing faxes if I ever
    have to deal with luddites. Most of my suppliers have online ordering
    systems, and most of my customers will accept online invoices. I use an
    office service company that prepares my GST returns from Xero and I pay
    that online.
    Cloud services are already at the stage where an independent contractor
    has access to what used to only be available on corporate networks.
    I use standalone PCs for tool tasks as well, they don't even need to be
    online.
    But everything that is a generic part of the business can be done
    through a browser.
     
    victor, May 26, 2010
    #8
  9. victor

    Sweetpea Guest

    On Wed, 26 May 2010 20:41:48 +1200, victor wrote:

    > I'm running my businesses admin using Internet banking, Xero accounting,
    > Workflow Max, Google Docs, and Dropbox, and I'm evaluating Zoho I can
    > definitely share info better to different devices and people for quite
    > complex projects than I used to do


    I'm concerned about your seeming lack of concern for how exposed you are
    to the risk of having your business data copied and used by some other
    unknown third party.

    Are you using long user names with long (12 characters or greater) unique
    passwords or pass phrases consisting of random letters and numbers
    including capitals? And have you changed all the passwords within the
    last 3 months?

    And what is the minimum cypher key length of your browser/server HTMLS
    connections? If not 1024bit minimum why not?


    --
    "Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
     
    Sweetpea, May 26, 2010
    #9
  10. In article <htimqu$mj8$>, victor <> wrote:
    >On 25/05/10 21:17, Squiggle wrote:


    >> Heh, lets see you lead the way then, uninstall all the locally installed
    >> apps on your computer, leaving only the browser and its plugins plus the
    >> drivers to run your hardware and let us know how you get on.
    >>
    >> I notice that none of the "killer apps" you have mentioned above
    >> actually have any productive purpose, they are time-wasters/
    >> entertainment sites.
    >>
    >> Lets hear about all these cloud based apps that people can use to make a
    >> living doing something productive.

    >
    >OK
    >I'm running my businesses admin using Internet banking, Xero accounting,
    >Workflow Max, Google Docs, and Dropbox, and I'm evaluating Zoho
    >I can definitely share info better to different devices and people for
    >quite complex projects than I used to do. I travel quite a bit so having
    >everything on a single desktop is inconvenient and having it all on a
    >lappy is way too risky and vulnerable to theft and damage. I can
    >generate pdf quotes and invoices from my phone or netbook, and its fully
    >cross-platform.
    >I use 2talk's sip fax service for incoming and outgoing faxes if I ever
    >have to deal with luddites. Most of my suppliers have online ordering
    >systems, and most of my customers will accept online invoices. I use an
    >office service company that prepares my GST returns from Xero and I pay
    >that online.
    >Cloud services are already at the stage where an independent contractor
    >has access to what used to only be available on corporate networks.
    >I use standalone PCs for tool tasks as well, they don't even need to be
    >online.
    >But everything that is a generic part of the business can be done
    >through a browser.


    Can be ? ... sure. But is that clever ? :) Time will tell, but I suspect the
    answer is 'not at all'. :)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, May 27, 2010
    #10
  11. victor

    victor Guest

    On 27/05/10 14:50, Bruce Sinclair wrote:
    > In article<htimqu$mj8$>, victor<> wrote:


    >> But everything that is a generic part of the business can be done
    >> through a browser.

    >
    > Can be ? ... sure. But is that clever ? :) Time will tell, but I suspect the
    > answer is 'not at all'. :)
    >
    >

    http://www.xero.com/security/

    Try it

    https://www.xero.com/personal/
     
    victor, May 27, 2010
    #11
  12. victor

    Squiggle Guest

    On 26/05/2010 8:41 p.m., victor threw some characters down the intarwebs:

    > OK
    > I'm running my businesses admin using Internet banking, Xero accounting,
    > Workflow Max, Google Docs, and Dropbox, and I'm evaluating Zoho


    Right, so lots of what appears to me to be backend non-productive but
    probably necessary work.


    > I use standalone PCs for tool tasks as well, they don't even need to be
    > online.


    Oh, is this the actual productive work that your clients are paying you for?
    If they don't need to be online I guess that means its all done using
    locally installed software?
     
    Squiggle, May 28, 2010
    #12
  13. victor

    victor Guest

    On 28/05/2010 9:40 p.m., Squiggle wrote:
    > On 26/05/2010 8:41 p.m., victor threw some characters down the intarwebs:
    >
    >> OK
    >> I'm running my businesses admin using Internet banking, Xero accounting,
    >> Workflow Max, Google Docs, and Dropbox, and I'm evaluating Zoho

    >
    > Right, so lots of what appears to me to be backend non-productive but
    > probably necessary work.
    >
    >
    >> I use standalone PCs for tool tasks as well, they don't even need to be
    >> online.

    >
    > Oh, is this the actual productive work that your clients are paying you for?
    > If they don't need to be online I guess that means its all done using
    > locally installed software?



    That is what you call a false dichotomy.
    The assumption that there are two mutually exclusive choices.
    I can leave local app platforms to run their optimum functions on site
    and have access to the data available everywhere.
     
    victor, May 28, 2010
    #13
  14. victor

    Squiggle Guest

    On 28/05/2010 10:44 p.m., victor wrote:
    > On 28/05/2010 9:40 p.m., Squiggle wrote:
    >> On 26/05/2010 8:41 p.m., victor threw some characters down the intarwebs:
    >>
    >>> OK
    >>> I'm running my businesses admin using Internet banking, Xero accounting,
    >>> Workflow Max, Google Docs, and Dropbox, and I'm evaluating Zoho

    >>
    >> Right, so lots of what appears to me to be backend non-productive but
    >> probably necessary work.
    >>
    >>
    >>> I use standalone PCs for tool tasks as well, they don't even need to be
    >>> online.

    >>
    >> Oh, is this the actual productive work that your clients are paying
    >> you for?
    >> If they don't need to be online I guess that means its all done using
    >> locally installed software?

    >
    >
    > That is what you call a false dichotomy.
    > The assumption that there are two mutually exclusive choices.
    > I can leave local app platforms to run their optimum functions on site
    > and have access to the data available everywhere.


    Righto, you won't have a problem naming a few of these cloud based apps
    that are comparable with their locally installed competitors then will you?
     
    Squiggle, May 29, 2010
    #14
  15. victor

    victor Guest

    On 30/05/10 01:53, Squiggle wrote:
    > On 28/05/2010 10:44 p.m., victor wrote:
    >> On 28/05/2010 9:40 p.m., Squiggle wrote:
    >>> On 26/05/2010 8:41 p.m., victor threw some characters down the
    >>> intarwebs:
    >>>
    >>>> OK
    >>>> I'm running my businesses admin using Internet banking, Xero
    >>>> accounting,
    >>>> Workflow Max, Google Docs, and Dropbox, and I'm evaluating Zoho
    >>>
    >>> Right, so lots of what appears to me to be backend non-productive but
    >>> probably necessary work.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> I use standalone PCs for tool tasks as well, they don't even need to be
    >>>> online.
    >>>
    >>> Oh, is this the actual productive work that your clients are paying
    >>> you for?
    >>> If they don't need to be online I guess that means its all done using
    >>> locally installed software?

    >>
    >>
    >> That is what you call a false dichotomy.
    >> The assumption that there are two mutually exclusive choices.
    >> I can leave local app platforms to run their optimum functions on site
    >> and have access to the data available everywhere.

    >
    > Righto, you won't have a problem naming a few of these cloud based apps
    > that are comparable with their locally installed competitors then will you?
    >


    That would be pointless, you just want to argue that Microsoft Office or
    whatever has more features than Google Docs
    So it does.
    OK ?
     
    victor, May 29, 2010
    #15
  16. In article <htkvk6$ia4$>, victor <> wrote:
    >On 27/05/10 14:50, Bruce Sinclair wrote:
    >> In article<htimqu$mj8$>, victor<>

    > wrote:
    >
    >>> But everything that is a generic part of the business can be done
    >>> through a browser.

    >>
    >> Can be ? ... sure. But is that clever ? :) Time will tell, but I suspect the
    >> answer is 'not at all'. :)
    >>
    >>

    >http://www.xero.com/security/
    >
    >Try it
    >
    >https://www.xero.com/personal/


    Not me.My decision is already made. :)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Jun 2, 2010
    #16
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