Re: Leica M Monochrom captures exclusively in black and white, costs far more than your color-abled

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Robert Coe, May 12, 2012.

  1. Robert Coe

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Fri, 11 May 2012 21:03:29 -0700, Savageduck
    <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    : On 2012-05-11 18:15:38 -0700, MummyChunk said:
    :
    : > From ENG
    : >
    : >
    : >
    : > LEICA M MONOCHROM: THE FUTURE OF BLACK-AND-WHITE PHOTOGRAPHY
    :
    : I am curious as to your reasons for this cut and paste effort when a
    : simple url link to the article would have surficed. Especially since
    : most of the usual suspects in these photo groups were well aware of the
    : latest Leica news to be found in leicarumors.com.
    :
    : <
    : http://leicarumors.com/2012/05/10/l...-black-and-white-photography.aspx/#more-15088
    : >

    Frankly, I'd suggest that he not bother to answer. Life is too short to waste
    on such trivia. If you really care why somebody posts a (reasonably sized)
    excerpt rather than a link thereto, alt.psychology might be a good place to
    inquire.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, May 12, 2012
    #1
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  2. Robert Coe

    philo Guest

    Re: Leica M Monochrom captures exclusively in black and white, costsfar more than your color-abled shooter

    On 5/12/2012 4:54 PM, Robert Coe wrote:
    > On Fri, 11 May 2012 21:03:29 -0700, Savageduck
    > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    > : On 2012-05-11 18:15:38 -0700, MummyChunk said:
    > :
    > :> From ENG
    > :>
    > :>
    > :>
    > :> LEICA M MONOCHROM: THE FUTURE OF BLACK-AND-WHITE PHOTOGRAPHY
    > :
    > : I am curious as to your reasons for this cut and paste effort when a
    > : simple url link to the article would have surficed. Especially since
    > : most of the usual suspects in these photo groups were well aware of the
    > : latest Leica news to be found in leicarumors.com.
    > :
    > :<
    > : http://leicarumors.com/2012/05/10/l...-black-and-white-photography.aspx/#more-15088
    > :>
    >
    > Frankly, I'd suggest that he not bother to answer. Life is too short to waste
    > on such trivia. If you really care why somebody posts a (reasonably sized)
    > excerpt rather than a link thereto, alt.psychology might be a good place to
    > inquire.
    >
    > Bob



    yes

    but more importantly is a camera like that really needed?

    I have my doubts
     
    philo, May 13, 2012
    #2
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  3. Robert Coe

    philo Guest

    Re: Leica M Monochrom captures exclusively in black and white, costsfar more than your color-abled shooter

    On 05/12/2012 07:50 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >
    > NIK Silver Efex Pro




    Quite outstanding shots!


    For me...I always shoot in color, then if needed convert to grayscale
    later if necessary.

    I rarely know in advance what's going to be appropriate.
     
    philo, May 13, 2012
    #3
  4. philo <> wrote:
    > On 5/12/2012 4:54 PM, Robert Coe wrote:
    >> On Fri, 11 May 2012 21:03:29 -0700, Savageduck
    >> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >> : On 2012-05-11 18:15:38 -0700, MummyChunk said:
    >> :
    >> :> From ENG
    >> :>
    >> :>
    >> :>
    >> :> LEICA M MONOCHROM: THE FUTURE OF BLACK-AND-WHITE PHOTOGRAPHY
    >> :
    >> : I am curious as to your reasons for this cut and paste effort when a
    >> : simple url link to the article would have surficed. Especially since
    >> : most of the usual suspects in these photo groups were well aware of the
    >> : latest Leica news to be found in leicarumors.com.
    >> :
    >> :<
    >> : http://leicarumors.com/2012/05/10/l...-black-and-white-photography.aspx/#more-15088
    >> :>
    >>
    >> Frankly, I'd suggest that he not bother to answer. Life is too short to waste
    >> on such trivia. If you really care why somebody posts a (reasonably sized)
    >> excerpt rather than a link thereto, alt.psychology might be a good place to
    >> inquire.
    >>
    >> Bob



    > yes


    > but more importantly is a camera like that really needed?


    I hate to think how little camera gear I'd have if I restricted myself
    to the stuff I really needed.

    --
    Chris Malcolm
     
    Chris Malcolm, May 13, 2012
    #4
  5. Robert Coe

    philo Guest

    Re: Leica M Monochrom captures exclusively in black and white, costsfar more than your color-abled shooter

    On 05/13/2012 09:12 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2012-05-13 03:52:05 -0700, philo <> said:
    >
    >> On 05/12/2012 07:50 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>
    >>> NIK Silver Efex Pro

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Quite outstanding shots!

    >
    > Thanks for that.
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> For me...I always shoot in color, then if needed convert to grayscale
    >> later if necessary.

    >
    > There have been occasions I have shot in Monochrome using my D300s and
    > experimented with the Nikon in-camera toning filters, mostly yellow,
    > red, green. That gives me an immediate B&W jpeg with those filter
    > effects along with a full color data RAW if I care to make a color
    > version or a different software B&W conversion.
    >
    > For the most part I just shoot RAW in full color.
    >
    > I find that making a grayscale B&W conversion leaves you with a somewhat
    > bland monochrome image. If you are using PS of any variety, better to
    > use the channels method, or in some of the later CS versions, the B&W
    > conversion adjustment layer.
    >
    >>
    >> I rarely know in advance what's going to be appropriate.

    >
    > That is the standard operating procedure for me. However, there are
    > times I think I have planned a shot, only to find something unplanned
    > worked much better. I live for the "miraculous accident".
    >
    >




    Yep...I rarely plan or stage anything.

    The one time I did some planned and posed shots...
    the best one of the day was a candid shot I did while my model (aka
    wife) was taking a break.


    Hmmm I never have used the B&W conversion adjustment layer...it will be
    something I'll have to fool with one of these days.
     
    philo, May 13, 2012
    #5
  6. Robert Coe

    philo Guest

    Re: Leica M Monochrom captures exclusively in black and white, costsfar more than your color-abled shooter

    On 05/13/2012 02:09 PM, philo wrote:
    > On 05/13/2012 09:12 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    >> On 2012-05-13 03:52:05 -0700, philo <> said:
    >>
    >>> On 05/12/2012 07:50 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> NIK Silver Efex Pro
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >
    >
    > Yep...I rarely plan or stage anything.
    >
    > The one time I did some planned and posed shots...
    > the best one of the day was a candid shot I did while my model (aka
    > wife) was taking a break.
    >
    >
    > Hmmm I never have used the B&W conversion adjustment layer...it will be
    > something I'll have to fool with one of these days.




    Why wait...I gave it a try just now.

    I usually use a simple program like ACDsee to just convert to grayscale.

    This time I used GIMP and use the desaturation method
    then compared it to the way I had been doing things.

    Definitely better using desaturation !

    I just learned something....thank you!
     
    philo, May 13, 2012
    #6
  7. Robert Coe

    PeterN Guest

    Re: Leica M Monochrom captures exclusively in black and white, costsfar more than your color-abled shooter

    On 5/13/2012 6:52 AM, philo wrote:
    > On 05/12/2012 07:50 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>
    >> NIK Silver Efex Pro

    >
    >
    >
    > Quite outstanding shots!
    >
    >
    > For me...I always shoot in color, then if needed convert to grayscale
    > later if necessary.
    >
    > I rarely know in advance what's going to be appropriate.
    >


    Yup! Somehow the image tells me what to do.

    Sometimes I am wrong in listening; and
    Sometimes I am wrong in not listening.

    --
    Peter
     
    PeterN, May 13, 2012
    #7
  8. Robert Coe

    PeterN Guest

    Re: Leica M Monochrom captures exclusively in black and white, costsfar more than your color-abled shooter

    On 5/13/2012 3:09 PM, philo wrote:
    > On 05/13/2012 09:12 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    >> On 2012-05-13 03:52:05 -0700, philo <> said:
    >>
    >>> On 05/12/2012 07:50 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> NIK Silver Efex Pro
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Quite outstanding shots!

    >>
    >> Thanks for that.
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> For me...I always shoot in color, then if needed convert to grayscale
    >>> later if necessary.

    >>
    >> There have been occasions I have shot in Monochrome using my D300s and
    >> experimented with the Nikon in-camera toning filters, mostly yellow,
    >> red, green. That gives me an immediate B&W jpeg with those filter
    >> effects along with a full color data RAW if I care to make a color
    >> version or a different software B&W conversion.
    >>
    >> For the most part I just shoot RAW in full color.
    >>
    >> I find that making a grayscale B&W conversion leaves you with a somewhat
    >> bland monochrome image. If you are using PS of any variety, better to
    >> use the channels method, or in some of the later CS versions, the B&W
    >> conversion adjustment layer.
    >>
    >>>
    >>> I rarely know in advance what's going to be appropriate.

    >>
    >> That is the standard operating procedure for me. However, there are
    >> times I think I have planned a shot, only to find something unplanned
    >> worked much better. I live for the "miraculous accident".
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    > Yep...I rarely plan or stage anything.
    >
    > The one time I did some planned and posed shots...
    > the best one of the day was a candid shot I did while my model (aka
    > wife) was taking a break.
    >
    >
    > Hmmm I never have used the B&W conversion adjustment layer...it will be
    > something I'll have to fool with one of these days.



    It give you a lot of control. For even more control and variety, I use
    Topaz.

    --
    Peter
     
    PeterN, May 13, 2012
    #8
  9. Robert Coe

    philo Guest

    Re: Leica M Monochrom captures exclusively in black and white, costsfar more than your color-abled shooter

    On 05/13/2012 04:09 PM, PeterN wrote:
    > On 5/13/2012 3:09 PM, philo wrote:
    >> On 05/13/2012 09:12 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>> On 2012-05-13 03:52:05 -0700, philo <> said:
    >>>
    >>>> On 05/12/2012 07:50 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> NIK Silver Efex Pro
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Quite outstanding shots!
    >>>
    >>> Thanks for that.
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> For me...I always shoot in color, then if needed convert to grayscale
    >>>> later if necessary.
    >>>
    >>> There have been occasions I have shot in Monochrome using my D300s and
    >>> experimented with the Nikon in-camera toning filters, mostly yellow,
    >>> red, green. That gives me an immediate B&W jpeg with those filter
    >>> effects along with a full color data RAW if I care to make a color
    >>> version or a dX

    >>
    >> Yep...I rarely plan or stage anything.
    >>
    >> The one time I did some planned and posed shots...
    >> the best one of the day was a candid shot I did while my model (aka
    >> wife) was taking a break.
    >>
    >>
    >> Hmmm I never have used the B&W conversion adjustment layer...it will be
    >> something I'll have to fool with one of these days.

    >
    >
    > It give you a lot of control. For even more control and variety, I use
    > Topaz.
    >


    I took Savageduck's advice and got better results. When I told my wife
    that I tried de-saturation and it worked better than simply converting
    to grayscale...she simply said : "I've been telling you that for years!"
     
    philo, May 13, 2012
    #9
  10. Robert Coe

    PeterN Guest

    Re: Leica M Monochrom captures exclusively in black and white, costsfar more than your color-abled shooter

    On 5/13/2012 6:02 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2012-05-13 14:53:08 -0700, philo <> said:
    >
    >> On 05/13/2012 04:09 PM, PeterN wrote:
    >>> On 5/13/2012 3:09 PM, philo wrote:
    >>>> On 05/13/2012 09:12 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>>> On 2012-05-13 03:52:05 -0700, philo <> said:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On 05/12/2012 07:50 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> NIK Silver Efex Pro
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Quite outstanding shots!
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Thanks for that.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> For me...I always shoot in color, then if needed convert to grayscale
    >>>>>> later if necessary.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> There have been occasions I have shot in Monochrome using my D300s and
    >>>>> experimented with the Nikon in-camera toning filters, mostly yellow,
    >>>>> red, green. That gives me an immediate B&W jpeg with those filter
    >>>>> effects along with a full color data RAW if I care to make a color
    >>>>> version or a dX
    >>>>
    >>>> Yep...I rarely plan or stage anything.
    >>>>
    >>>> The one time I did some planned and posed shots...
    >>>> the best one of the day was a candid shot I did while my model (aka
    >>>> wife) was taking a break.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Hmmm I never have used the B&W conversion adjustment layer...it will be
    >>>> something I'll have to fool with one of these days.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> It give you a lot of control. For even more control and variety, I use
    >>> Topaz.
    >>>

    >>
    >> I took Savageduck's advice and got better results. When I told my wife
    >> that I tried de-saturation and it worked better than simply converting
    >> to grayscale...she simply said : "I've been telling you that for years!"

    >
    > You just need to know, who knows what in your house.
    > ...but then there are times the answer is given in opposite sex code
    > once the question is asked.
    >


    Offtimes even before the question is asked.

    --
    Peter
     
    PeterN, May 13, 2012
    #10
  11. Robert Coe

    Jon Fabian Guest

    philo <> wrote:
    > On 5/12/2012 4:54 PM, Robert Coe wrote:
    >> On Fri, 11 May 2012 21:03:29 -0700, Savageduck
    >> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >> : On 2012-05-11 18:15:38 -0700, MummyChunk said:


    <previous argument removed>

    >> :

    > yes
    >
    > but more importantly is a camera like that really needed?
    >
    > I have my doubts


    I would think that depends on the definition of the word "need". For me it
    is enticing because I do not do enough MF-only work to justify the
    purchase of a Phase-One monochrome back. And since the Leica will cost 20%
    what an MF back costs, it puts it well within the realm of possibility.
    Add my large collection of Leica glass, both M-mount and screw mount, my
    total cost will be lower than many others'.

    Do I "need" it? I shoot monochrome almost exclusively, which means that
    there are many things I won't have to do in Photoshop (or whatever) that I
    would with a color conversion. Am I in the majority, even of Leica users?
    No. But I have held off buying Leica digital this long specifically
    because I was hoping for a monochrome-only body. Obviously I'm in the
    tiniest of minority of photographers, but I know a few others in my
    situation who are looking forward to seeing it in the flesh.

    And to stave off any general anti-Leica sentiment, anyone can make an
    optically near-perfect lens nowadays. My favorite Leica lenses were not
    designed with the help of a computer (i.e., they're old). imperfections
    draw me to older lenses. I could just as easily use Canon, Nikon, or
    Contax rangefinders, I just happen to prefer Leicas.

    --

    SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org
     
    Jon Fabian, May 30, 2012
    #11
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