Re: Keep the MCSE Cert Petition

Discussion in 'Microsoft Certification' started by Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard], Jun 7, 2007.

  1. "Michael Gossett" <> wrote in message
    news::

    > Actually I think he's referring to something else, as I also heard that
    > the
    > MCSE 2003 was retiring next year, but "retiring" in the sense that it
    > will
    > not be updated anymore and that it is now in its final state.
    >


    Per Rob Linsky, Microsoft Certification Program:

    "The MCSA and MCSE 2000 exams will retire at the end of March 08. The
    2000 MCSA and MCSE credentials will remain in market forever and will
    NOT be retired or removed from transcripts. The MCSA and MCSE 2003
    exams will likely be in market for another 4-5 years (at a minimum) and
    the credentials will remain in market and will never be retired. There
    is absolutely no truth to the rumors..."

    It is not this difficult to understand. The MCSE 2000 OR 2003
    certification will not retire. The means (exams) of achieving the MCSE
    2000 will be discontinued.

    --
    Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
    The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com
    Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard], Jun 7, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Correct - Microsoft has decided to end the well known MCSE certification
    "brand" if you will.
    in the future you will be a MCITP whatever.

    I think this is a terrible mistake:
    1. The MCSE is recognized outside of IT circles by many other industries and
    professional groups
    2. MCSE's have worked hard to obtain and maintain certification, Microsoft
    should be engaged in activities which promote the MCSE brand and those of us
    who have worked so hard to obtain it. Not snubbing their nose at the very
    people who deliver MS solutions day in and day out.




    "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard]" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    > "Michael Gossett" <> wrote in message
    > news::
    >
    >> Actually I think he's referring to something else, as I also heard that
    >> the
    >> MCSE 2003 was retiring next year, but "retiring" in the sense that it
    >> will
    >> not be updated anymore and that it is now in its final state.
    >>

    >
    > Per Rob Linsky, Microsoft Certification Program:
    >
    > "The MCSA and MCSE 2000 exams will retire at the end of March 08. The
    > 2000 MCSA and MCSE credentials will remain in market forever and will NOT
    > be retired or removed from transcripts. The MCSA and MCSE 2003 exams will
    > likely be in market for another 4-5 years (at a minimum) and the
    > credentials will remain in market and will never be retired. There is
    > absolutely no truth to the rumors..."
    >
    > It is not this difficult to understand. The MCSE 2000 OR 2003
    > certification will not retire. The means (exams) of achieving the MCSE
    > 2000 will be discontinued.
    >
    > --
    > Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
    > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    > CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com
    >
    >
    Jonathan Hughes, Jun 7, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard]

    Chris Lehr Guest

    Thank goodness - my MCSE+I is still on my transcript :eek:


    "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard]" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    > "Michael Gossett" <> wrote in message
    > news::
    >
    >> Actually I think he's referring to something else, as I also heard that
    >> the
    >> MCSE 2003 was retiring next year, but "retiring" in the sense that it
    >> will
    >> not be updated anymore and that it is now in its final state.
    >>

    >
    > Per Rob Linsky, Microsoft Certification Program:
    >
    > "The MCSA and MCSE 2000 exams will retire at the end of March 08. The
    > 2000 MCSA and MCSE credentials will remain in market forever and will NOT
    > be retired or removed from transcripts. The MCSA and MCSE 2003 exams will
    > likely be in market for another 4-5 years (at a minimum) and the
    > credentials will remain in market and will never be retired. There is
    > absolutely no truth to the rumors..."
    >
    > It is not this difficult to understand. The MCSE 2000 OR 2003
    > certification will not retire. The means (exams) of achieving the MCSE
    > 2000 will be discontinued.
    >
    > --
    > Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
    > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    > CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com
    >
    >
    Chris Lehr, Jun 7, 2007
    #3
  4. Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard]

    Neil Guest

    did you hear "Jonathan Hughes" <> say in
    news::

    > I think this is a terrible mistake:
    > 1. The MCSE is recognized outside of IT circles by many other
    > industries and professional groups


    ....not necissarily in a good way. The MCSEs that have braindumped thier
    way to a paper MCSE ave greatly devalues the certification and distancing
    oneself from this should be seen as an improvement. This is not to say
    that the MCITP may also suffer from the same fate, but if MS does work
    towards strengthening exam security and continue to work towards the
    board level review for top level certs (hopefully MCA hasn't completely
    fallen off the table - poke, poke, ah, yes, still there...) similar to
    the CCIE, the luster may yet reappear for MS certs.

    (note, not currently holding breath)

    additionally, in certain areas the "Engineer" portion of the name has
    been the cause of litigation surrounding the fact that professional
    "engineers" don't take to kindly to the use of the title without the cute
    little ring (and certification process) surrounding profesional
    engineering.

    > 2. MCSE's have worked hard to obtain and maintain certification,
    > Microsoft should be engaged in activities which promote the MCSE brand
    > and those of us who have worked so hard to obtain it. Not snubbing
    > their nose at the very people who deliver MS solutions day in and day
    > out.
    >


    ....some have, some haven't. Some haven't worked very hard since the NT 4
    days and still call themselves MCSE and confuse the issue. I, for example
    am an MCSE but unless I clarify further, you wouldn't know which version
    of Winders I'm talkin about. When I indicate that I am an MCSE on 3.51,
    the certs not all that relavent. When I say that I also have the
    certification on NT 4, 2000 and 2003, I hold a bit more credibility. The
    MCITP leaves absolutely NO doubt as to which flavour as it includes in
    the title of the cert the discipline (DB Admin, DB Dev, BI, Ent Support
    Tech, whatever they'll call the 2008 stuff, etc.)

    If you don't believe that MS will agressively market these
    certifications/designations as much as they did for the MCSE, you must be
    new to dealing with Microsoft. They have been historically fairly good at
    marketing. :)

    --
    The InterNeil "V2 w/tabbed browsing & decreased verbosity" MCNGP Triple X

    - Behind every successful man there is a woman with nothing to wear.
    Neil, Jun 7, 2007
    #4
  5. Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard]

    Neil Guest

    did you hear "Chris Lehr" <> say in
    news::

    > Thank goodness - my MCSE+I is still on my transcript :eek:


    Ditto (and the Win95 exam looks DANG impressive)

    --
    The InterNeil "V2 w/tabbed browsing & decreased verbosity" MCNGP Triple X

    - Press to test. <Click>. Release to detonate.
    Neil, Jun 7, 2007
    #5
  6. Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard]

    JaR Guest

    "Jonathan Hughes" <> wrote in
    news::

    > 1. The MCSE is recognized outside of IT circles by many other
    > industries and professional groups


    Yes, unfortunately, inside IT circles it is usually only recognized as a
    source of disdain.

    --
    JaR
    Must Consult Someone Else
    Remove hat to reply
    JaR, Jun 7, 2007
    #6
  7. Yeah its known outside threw IT circle as the MSCE because no one knows the
    acronym anyway. But if having someone who works at a gas station know how
    important your MCSE is to you than you need help, unless of course you're
    single and trying to impress the ladies, because we all know the ladies love
    those lapel pins.

    As for those working hard for their MCSE, I would say that is questionable
    at best. And Microsoft isn't snubbing anything at anyone. Trust me when I
    say the MCTS/MCITP Programs have more behind them than the older generation
    MCP Program ever did. But I always did find it funny when MS said they were
    going to retire the certifications the first time around and all the MCSE's
    on NT 4 and earlier got pissed off. I have a feeling it's that same group
    mad that the program has changed and so has the process.

    But we all know how important recognition is, don't we. After all nothing
    more could ever be important.

    --
    ..rev

    "It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought without
    accepting it"
    ~Aristotle
    ..
    "Jonathan Hughes" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Correct - Microsoft has decided to end the well known MCSE certification
    > "brand" if you will.
    > in the future you will be a MCITP whatever.
    >
    > I think this is a terrible mistake:
    > 1. The MCSE is recognized outside of IT circles by many other industries
    > and professional groups
    > 2. MCSE's have worked hard to obtain and maintain certification, Microsoft
    > should be engaged in activities which promote the MCSE brand and those of
    > us who have worked so hard to obtain it. Not snubbing their nose at the
    > very people who deliver MS solutions day in and day out.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard]" <> wrote in
    > message news:...
    >> "Michael Gossett" <> wrote in message
    >> news::
    >>
    >>> Actually I think he's referring to something else, as I also heard that
    >>> the
    >>> MCSE 2003 was retiring next year, but "retiring" in the sense that it
    >>> will
    >>> not be updated anymore and that it is now in its final state.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Per Rob Linsky, Microsoft Certification Program:
    >>
    >> "The MCSA and MCSE 2000 exams will retire at the end of March 08. The
    >> 2000 MCSA and MCSE credentials will remain in market forever and will NOT
    >> be retired or removed from transcripts. The MCSA and MCSE 2003 exams
    >> will likely be in market for another 4-5 years (at a minimum) and the
    >> credentials will remain in market and will never be retired. There is
    >> absolutely no truth to the rumors..."
    >>
    >> It is not this difficult to understand. The MCSE 2000 OR 2003
    >> certification will not retire. The means (exams) of achieving the MCSE
    >> 2000 will be discontinued.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
    >> The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    >> CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    The Rev [MCT], Jun 8, 2007
    #7
  8. I would point out that aside from the debate of whether or not the branding
    of the MCSA/MCSE credentials are properly recognized inside and outside of IT
    (and the braindump discussions, et al that this discussion would imply), it
    is simply infeasible internationally to continue with the Engineer
    designation.

    Microsoft (along with some other companies over the years) has been sued
    repeatedly over the years for using the title Engineer.

    While I am not particularly happy with the TS and ITP designators (the sound
    of each full title frankly SOUNDS like something that would be on par with
    the old MCP) I understand why the change and the particular need for it.

    It will be the difficult task of Microsoft to entirely rebuild the brand of
    certificaiton in the industry and the same recognition it once held with the
    MCSE credential.
    --
    Wayne Anderson
    http://blog.avanadeadvisor.com/blogs/waynea/


    "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard]" wrote:

    > "Michael Gossett" <> wrote in message
    > news::
    >
    > > Actually I think he's referring to something else, as I also heard that
    > > the
    > > MCSE 2003 was retiring next year, but "retiring" in the sense that it
    > > will
    > > not be updated anymore and that it is now in its final state.
    > >

    >
    > Per Rob Linsky, Microsoft Certification Program:
    >
    > "The MCSA and MCSE 2000 exams will retire at the end of March 08. The
    > 2000 MCSA and MCSE credentials will remain in market forever and will
    > NOT be retired or removed from transcripts. The MCSA and MCSE 2003
    > exams will likely be in market for another 4-5 years (at a minimum) and
    > the credentials will remain in market and will never be retired. There
    > is absolutely no truth to the rumors..."
    >
    > It is not this difficult to understand. The MCSE 2000 OR 2003
    > certification will not retire. The means (exams) of achieving the MCSE
    > 2000 will be discontinued.
    >
    > --
    > Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
    > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    > CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com
    >
    >
    >
    =?Utf-8?B?V2F5bmUgQW5kZXJzb24=?=, Jun 14, 2007
    #8
  9. I agree with what you are saying, I think Microsoft should engage the
    marketing machine they use for Vista, to promote a larger acceptance if they
    plan to change the MCSE brand. After marketing the changes and inventing in
    a better "label" the situation might be better. But the TS and ITP sound
    like "SAMS COLA" after you used to be "Coke". The MCA cert is good in my
    opinion, but really who will actually in reality be able to obtain it?

    Jonathan



    "Wayne Anderson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I would point out that aside from the debate of whether or not the branding
    > of the MCSA/MCSE credentials are properly recognized inside and outside of
    > IT
    > (and the braindump discussions, et al that this discussion would imply),
    > it
    > is simply infeasible internationally to continue with the Engineer
    > designation.
    >
    > Microsoft (along with some other companies over the years) has been sued
    > repeatedly over the years for using the title Engineer.
    >
    > While I am not particularly happy with the TS and ITP designators (the
    > sound
    > of each full title frankly SOUNDS like something that would be on par with
    > the old MCP) I understand why the change and the particular need for it.
    >
    > It will be the difficult task of Microsoft to entirely rebuild the brand
    > of
    > certificaiton in the industry and the same recognition it once held with
    > the
    > MCSE credential.
    > --
    > Wayne Anderson
    > http://blog.avanadeadvisor.com/blogs/waynea/
    >
    >
    > "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard]" wrote:
    >
    >> "Michael Gossett" <> wrote in message
    >> news::
    >>
    >> > Actually I think he's referring to something else, as I also heard that
    >> > the
    >> > MCSE 2003 was retiring next year, but "retiring" in the sense that it
    >> > will
    >> > not be updated anymore and that it is now in its final state.
    >> >

    >>
    >> Per Rob Linsky, Microsoft Certification Program:
    >>
    >> "The MCSA and MCSE 2000 exams will retire at the end of March 08. The
    >> 2000 MCSA and MCSE credentials will remain in market forever and will
    >> NOT be retired or removed from transcripts. The MCSA and MCSE 2003
    >> exams will likely be in market for another 4-5 years (at a minimum) and
    >> the credentials will remain in market and will never be retired. There
    >> is absolutely no truth to the rumors..."
    >>
    >> It is not this difficult to understand. The MCSE 2000 OR 2003
    >> certification will not retire. The means (exams) of achieving the MCSE
    >> 2000 will be discontinued.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
    >> The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    >> CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com
    >>
    >>
    >>
    Jonathan Hughes, Jun 19, 2007
    #9
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