Re: KDS-X-treme flat experience

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Michael-NC, Apr 1, 2004.

  1. Michael-NC

    Michael-NC Guest

    I have a couple KDS monitors over 4 years old that are still going. Picture
    quality is more than acceptable.

    "Wizard" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > KDS makes cheap-shit-junk and always has.
    >
    > nunu wrote:
    > >
    > > Hi,
    > >
    > > I'm considering to buy KDS 17" Extreme Flat CRT monitor. Anybody has

    opinion
    > > or experience on the item?
    > >
    > > Thanks,
     
    Michael-NC, Apr 1, 2004
    #1
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  2. Michael-NC

    Thor Guest

    I have to agree with Wizard here. KDS was, is, and probably always will be
    known for cheap low-grade stuff. My main supplier dropped them as their
    "house brand" supplier not long after they started using them. Too many DOA
    monitors, and KDS was terrible in shipping replacement units in a timely
    manner. A buddy of mine had a KDS Avitron 19", which was their
    top-o-the-line 19" model a couple of years ago. It decided to go "poof" one
    day during a LAN party. Wasn't even a year old at the time. KDS "KARES"
    warranty program was supposed to ship him out a replacement within 24 hours.
    Long story short, after 3 or 4 weeks, and numerous phone calls, he finally
    got his replacement. Yeah, they really "Kare" about their customers.



    ...
    "Michael-NC" <> wrote in message
    news:1B0bc.7157$...
    > I have a couple KDS monitors over 4 years old that are still going.

    Picture
    > quality is more than acceptable.
    >
    > "Wizard" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > KDS makes cheap-shit-junk and always has.
    > >
    > > nunu wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Hi,
    > > >
    > > > I'm considering to buy KDS 17" Extreme Flat CRT monitor. Anybody has

    > opinion
    > > > or experience on the item?
    > > >
    > > > Thanks,

    >
    >
     
    Thor, Apr 2, 2004
    #2
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  3. Michael-NC

    Michael-NC Guest

    That has not been my experience. I've bought at least a dozen KDS monitors
    for systems I have and have built for others in the last few years and have
    had no problems. IMO, it's a good monitor for the money. How can you
    complain when you get a 17" monitor for 80.00.

    "Thor" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I have to agree with Wizard here. KDS was, is, and probably always will be
    > known for cheap low-grade stuff. My main supplier dropped them as their
    > "house brand" supplier not long after they started using them. Too many

    DOA
    > monitors, and KDS was terrible in shipping replacement units in a timely
    > manner. A buddy of mine had a KDS Avitron 19", which was their
    > top-o-the-line 19" model a couple of years ago. It decided to go "poof"

    one
    > day during a LAN party. Wasn't even a year old at the time. KDS "KARES"
    > warranty program was supposed to ship him out a replacement within 24

    hours.
    > Long story short, after 3 or 4 weeks, and numerous phone calls, he finally
    > got his replacement. Yeah, they really "Kare" about their customers.
    >
    >
    >
    > ..
    > "Michael-NC" <> wrote in message
    > news:1B0bc.7157$...
    > > I have a couple KDS monitors over 4 years old that are still going.

    > Picture
    > > quality is more than acceptable.
    > >
    > > "Wizard" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > KDS makes cheap-shit-junk and always has.
    > > >
    > > > nunu wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > Hi,
    > > > >
    > > > > I'm considering to buy KDS 17" Extreme Flat CRT monitor. Anybody has

    > > opinion
    > > > > or experience on the item?
    > > > >
    > > > > Thanks,

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Michael-NC, Apr 2, 2004
    #3
  4. Michael-NC

    Thor Guest

    "Michael-NC" <> wrote in message
    news:Rn3bc.3883$...
    > That has not been my experience. I've bought at least a dozen KDS monitors
    > for systems I have and have built for others in the last few years and

    have
    > had no problems. IMO, it's a good monitor for the money. How can you
    > complain when you get a 17" monitor for 80.00.


    Quite honestly, as a general rule I just wouldn't have much faith in an $80
    17" monitor to be reliable, regardless of the brand, just like I don't put
    much faith in a $30 case/power supply combo, or a $15 CDROM drive. I've
    always been a strong proponent of the adage, "you get what you pay for", and
    more often than not, it's been my experience that it bears out as a truism,
    especially in electronics. I've seen a steady decline in monitor reliability
    even among the major brands, in these super low-end 17" models they are
    routinely selling in the sub $100 range, and 19" models selling in the sub
    $150 range. But that is beside the point. I've seen enough KDS screens bite
    the dust that I just wouldn't feel comfortable selling one to any of my
    customers. I might risk it myself, if I'm in a particularly cheap-ass mood,
    and in fact I do have a 17" KDS monitor with a Trinitron tube, (was waaaay
    cheaper than anything else on the market with a trinitron tube, and does
    have a beautiful picture) but not long after the warranty expired, it began
    doing weird things like suddenly blinking out to a black screen for a split
    second. Only does it every great once in awhile, but nonetheless, it didn't
    surprise me much given my past experience with KDS. I just use it as an
    extra shop monitor these days, and I have a cheap-ass Inspra LCD monitor I
    use for my full-time screen. Wouldn't sell one of those to a customer
    either, but I bought it for myself because it was $225 when most all other
    15" LCDs were going for $300+. It lasted about a year, and crapped out.
    After 2 months of waiting and complaining to some obscure california-based
    distributer called "intraplex", I finally got a repleacment under warranty.
    If that had been a customer's flat panel, It wouldn't have been a very
    pleasant situation to deal with. So basically, with all due respect, my
    opinion of KDS is low. Low enough that there are plenty of other choices I
    would choose over them for my customers at least, your good experiences
    notwithstanding.
     
    Thor, Apr 2, 2004
    #4
  5. Michael-NC

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    "Michael-NC" <> wrote in
    news:Rn3bc.3883$:

    > That has not been my experience. I've bought at least a dozen KDS
    > monitors for systems I have and have built for others in the last few
    > years and have had no problems. IMO, it's a good monitor for the
    > money. How can you complain when you get a 17" monitor for 80.00.
    >


    Nor mine. At the day job I've got probably 20 or 30 in use and another 15
    or so in storage, they've outlasted just about every other brand we've got.
    I also own a 19" KDS. It does have one /really/ strange problem that
    developed, that it does not show /anything/ on the screen (light goes
    green, stays blank) until it gets to the GUI portion of Windows. This only
    happens in the morning on the first boot of the machine. It's been tried
    on three graphics cards, in three different machines, so it's definitely
    the monitor. Once you start the machine, you can reboot and the monitor
    works fine. I dunno. I consider them cheap junk, but I don't have a
    problem selling one or putting on into a lab for someone.

    --
    website: http://www.demonlag.com
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
     
    DeMoN LaG, Apr 2, 2004
    #5
  6. Michael-NC

    Michael-NC Guest

    Consumer Reports calls KDS a very good monitor at a very good price and I
    couldn't agree more.


    "Thor" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Michael-NC" <> wrote in message
    > news:Rn3bc.3883$...
    > > That has not been my experience. I've bought at least a dozen KDS

    monitors
    > > for systems I have and have built for others in the last few years and

    > have
    > > had no problems. IMO, it's a good monitor for the money. How can you
    > > complain when you get a 17" monitor for 80.00.

    >
    > Quite honestly, as a general rule I just wouldn't have much faith in an

    $80
    > 17" monitor to be reliable, regardless of the brand, just like I don't put
    > much faith in a $30 case/power supply combo, or a $15 CDROM drive. I've
    > always been a strong proponent of the adage, "you get what you pay for",

    and
    > more often than not, it's been my experience that it bears out as a

    truism,
    > especially in electronics. I've seen a steady decline in monitor

    reliability
    > even among the major brands, in these super low-end 17" models they are
    > routinely selling in the sub $100 range, and 19" models selling in the sub
    > $150 range. But that is beside the point. I've seen enough KDS screens

    bite
    > the dust that I just wouldn't feel comfortable selling one to any of my
    > customers. I might risk it myself, if I'm in a particularly cheap-ass

    mood,
    > and in fact I do have a 17" KDS monitor with a Trinitron tube, (was waaaay
    > cheaper than anything else on the market with a trinitron tube, and does
    > have a beautiful picture) but not long after the warranty expired, it

    began
    > doing weird things like suddenly blinking out to a black screen for a

    split
    > second. Only does it every great once in awhile, but nonetheless, it

    didn't
    > surprise me much given my past experience with KDS. I just use it as an
    > extra shop monitor these days, and I have a cheap-ass Inspra LCD monitor I
    > use for my full-time screen. Wouldn't sell one of those to a customer
    > either, but I bought it for myself because it was $225 when most all other
    > 15" LCDs were going for $300+. It lasted about a year, and crapped out.
    > After 2 months of waiting and complaining to some obscure california-based
    > distributer called "intraplex", I finally got a repleacment under

    warranty.
    > If that had been a customer's flat panel, It wouldn't have been a very
    > pleasant situation to deal with. So basically, with all due respect, my
    > opinion of KDS is low. Low enough that there are plenty of other choices I
    > would choose over them for my customers at least, your good experiences
    > notwithstanding.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
    Michael-NC, Apr 3, 2004
    #6
  7. Michael-NC

    Thor Guest

    "Michael-NC" <> wrote in message
    news:8aAbc.45213$...
    > Consumer Reports calls KDS a very good monitor at a very good price and I
    > couldn't agree more.



    Did they show predicted reliability and frequency of repair data in that
    review, or was it based solely on new monitor performance and features data?
    I've seen monitor reviews done by CR in the past, and have yet to see one
    that included any statistical reliability reports, and they will often give
    a good rating to something that they haven't done reliability surveys for,
    by basing the review entirely on features testing. I let my online CR
    subscription lapse, so I can't look at their reviews at the moment.
     
    Thor, Apr 3, 2004
    #7
  8. Michael-NC

    Michael-NC Guest

    No, they didn't include reliability data but again, you have a 1 or 3 year
    warranty depending on the model. Since there was no mention of any reliabity
    issues on the KDS, I would safely assume that Consumer Reports felt it a
    non-issue. I'll point you to some other KDS reviews.

    http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=746&page=5

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008AWLL/104-5626618-0254330?v=glance

    http://www.epinions.com/content_115425709700

    http://electronics.reviewindex.com/reviews/B00008AWLL.html

    Bottom line is KDS makes a great monitor for the money. Not everyone wants
    to drop 300.00 or more for a display and that's why KDS is one of the
    biggest manufacturers of computer displays in the world.


    "Thor" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Michael-NC" <> wrote in message
    > news:8aAbc.45213$...
    > > Consumer Reports calls KDS a very good monitor at a very good price and

    I
    > > couldn't agree more.

    >
    >
    > Did they show predicted reliability and frequency of repair data in that
    > review, or was it based solely on new monitor performance and features

    data?
    > I've seen monitor reviews done by CR in the past, and have yet to see one
    > that included any statistical reliability reports, and they will often

    give
    > a good rating to something that they haven't done reliability surveys for,
    > by basing the review entirely on features testing. I let my online CR
    > subscription lapse, so I can't look at their reviews at the moment.
    >
    >
     
    Michael-NC, Apr 4, 2004
    #8
  9. Michael-NC

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    "Michael-NC" <> wrote in
    news:TTJbc.12339$:

    > Bottom line is KDS makes a great monitor for the money. Not everyone
    > wants to drop 300.00 or more for a display and that's why KDS is one
    > of the biggest manufacturers of computer displays in the world.
    >


    I like KDS for my own personal use. Get a "cheap" KDS with 3 year
    warranty, WTF do I care if it explodes in year 4? I wouldn't use them for
    a client's machine, but for myself, why not? If a cheap 17" KDS goes for
    $80 this year, and even if it dies in 2 years, how much will a similar
    cheap 17" KDS go for in 2 years? $50? $40? As opposed to spending $130
    now for a monitor I'll want to replace in 2 or 3 years anyway.

    --
    website: http://www.demonlag.com
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
     
    DeMoN LaG, Apr 4, 2004
    #9
  10. Michael-NC

    Thor Guest

    "Michael-NC" <> wrote in message
    news:TTJbc.12339$...
    > No, they didn't include reliability data but again, you have a 1 or 3 year
    > warranty depending on the model. Since there was no mention of any

    reliabity
    > issues on the KDS, I would safely assume that Consumer Reports felt it a
    > non-issue. I'll point you to some other KDS reviews.



    In my experience, (being a former CR magazine, and CR online subscriber) CR
    doesn't handle their reviews in such a casual manner. When they do a review
    that factors in reliability data from consumer reviews, that data is clearly
    and unambiguously given, and the source is cited. They are quite clear when
    they factor in predicted reliability in a review. If they didn't mention it,
    then they more than likely did not have any such information to form their
    opinion of it and they probably didn't use any customer review data in their
    article. If survey relibility data was used at all, it would have been
    disclosed as such. Bottom line is that they simply do not have consumer
    reliability history data for every product they review, so they can only
    review based on the performance and features testing data that they acquire
    when they test the units themselves.


    >
    > http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=746&page=5
    >
    >

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008AWLL/104-5626618-0254330?v=glance
    >
    > http://www.epinions.com/content_115425709700
    >
    > http://electronics.reviewindex.com/reviews/B00008AWLL.html
    >
    > Bottom line is KDS makes a great monitor for the money. Not everyone wants
    > to drop 300.00 or more for a display and that's why KDS is one of the
    > biggest manufacturers of computer displays in the world.


    No one said you had to drop $300 or more for a decent display. However, I
    look at an $80 17" monitor with suspicion of what corners were cut to make
    it so very cheap. Also, Packard Bell was once the largest PC manufacturer in
    the US. Something to think about.

    Also, if you want to quote positive reviews, I can quote negative ones too.

    http://www.epinions.com/cmhd-Monitors-All-KDS_VS-7i/display_~reviews

    http://www.epinions.com/KDS_XFlat_1..._Monitor__CRT_Monitors_XF_9C/display_~reviews

    http://www.epinions.com/product-Monitors_KDS_Xtreme_Flat_9e_19_in_Display_XF_9E/display_~reviews

    Point is that such positive AND negative ratings from places like these
    don't really carry much weight with me, since they are so often based on
    very small customer responses, and it's easy to have shill responses. I'd be
    inclined to respect a CR *reliability* rating (not just a features and
    performance review), since a CR reliability rating is based on a relatively
    large number of responses, but in the absence of that, combined with my own
    past experiences with them, I'm still inclined to believe KDS monitors are
    low on the food chain when it comes to overall reliability. We'll just have
    to agree to disagree dude.
     
    Thor, Apr 4, 2004
    #10
  11. Michael-NC

    Thor Guest

    "DeMoN LaG" <n@a> wrote in message
    news:Xns94C0F216A1A0AWobbly@208.42.66.156...
    > "Michael-NC" <> wrote in
    > news:TTJbc.12339$:
    >
    > > Bottom line is KDS makes a great monitor for the money. Not everyone
    > > wants to drop 300.00 or more for a display and that's why KDS is one
    > > of the biggest manufacturers of computer displays in the world.
    > >

    >
    > I like KDS for my own personal use. Get a "cheap" KDS with 3 year
    > warranty, WTF do I care if it explodes in year 4? I wouldn't use them for
    > a client's machine, but for myself, why not? If a cheap 17" KDS goes for
    > $80 this year, and even if it dies in 2 years, how much will a similar
    > cheap 17" KDS go for in 2 years? $50? $40? As opposed to spending $130
    > now for a monitor I'll want to replace in 2 or 3 years anyway.


    Depends on how much value you place on your time to deal with problems like
    failed monitors, I guess. But I'm like you. I don't have a big problem using
    cheap stuff for my own usage, but I just don't like selling stuff I have low
    confidence in, to my clientel.
     
    Thor, Apr 4, 2004
    #11
  12. Michael-NC

    Michael-NC Guest

    Hey, I hear what you're saying but I also think it's unfair to summarily
    dismiss what is a a good bargain. My experience has been positive, as I've
    already stated. KDS is a major player in the display market and blanket
    statements against such a manufacturer, good or bad, usually amount to
    nothing. As you demonstrated, there are both good and bad reviews to be sure
    but the fact remains, they are in the value market, they compete very well
    and there is a reason for that.

    "Thor" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Michael-NC" <> wrote in message
    > news:TTJbc.12339$...
    > > No, they didn't include reliability data but again, you have a 1 or 3

    year
    > > warranty depending on the model. Since there was no mention of any

    > reliabity
    > > issues on the KDS, I would safely assume that Consumer Reports felt it a
    > > non-issue. I'll point you to some other KDS reviews.

    >
    >
    > In my experience, (being a former CR magazine, and CR online subscriber)

    CR
    > doesn't handle their reviews in such a casual manner. When they do a

    review
    > that factors in reliability data from consumer reviews, that data is

    clearly
    > and unambiguously given, and the source is cited. They are quite clear

    when
    > they factor in predicted reliability in a review. If they didn't mention

    it,
    > then they more than likely did not have any such information to form their
    > opinion of it and they probably didn't use any customer review data in

    their
    > article. If survey relibility data was used at all, it would have been
    > disclosed as such. Bottom line is that they simply do not have consumer
    > reliability history data for every product they review, so they can only
    > review based on the performance and features testing data that they

    acquire
    > when they test the units themselves.
    >
    >
    > >
    > > http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=746&page=5
    > >
    > >

    >

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008AWLL/104-5626618-0254330?v=glance
    > >
    > > http://www.epinions.com/content_115425709700
    > >
    > > http://electronics.reviewindex.com/reviews/B00008AWLL.html
    > >
    > > Bottom line is KDS makes a great monitor for the money. Not everyone

    wants
    > > to drop 300.00 or more for a display and that's why KDS is one of the
    > > biggest manufacturers of computer displays in the world.

    >
    > No one said you had to drop $300 or more for a decent display. However, I
    > look at an $80 17" monitor with suspicion of what corners were cut to make
    > it so very cheap. Also, Packard Bell was once the largest PC manufacturer

    in
    > the US. Something to think about.
    >
    > Also, if you want to quote positive reviews, I can quote negative ones

    too.
    >
    > http://www.epinions.com/cmhd-Monitors-All-KDS_VS-7i/display_~reviews
    >
    >

    http://www.epinions.com/KDS_XFlat_1..._Monitor__CRT_Monitors_XF_9C/display_~reviews
    >
    >

    http://www.epinions.com/product-Monitors_KDS_Xtreme_Flat_9e_19_in_Display_XF_9E/display_~reviews
    >
    > Point is that such positive AND negative ratings from places like these
    > don't really carry much weight with me, since they are so often based on
    > very small customer responses, and it's easy to have shill responses. I'd

    be
    > inclined to respect a CR *reliability* rating (not just a features and
    > performance review), since a CR reliability rating is based on a

    relatively
    > large number of responses, but in the absence of that, combined with my

    own
    > past experiences with them, I'm still inclined to believe KDS monitors are
    > low on the food chain when it comes to overall reliability. We'll just

    have
    > to agree to disagree dude.
    >
    >
    >
     
    Michael-NC, Apr 4, 2004
    #12
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