Re: iPhone 3G on Prepay

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by David Empson, Oct 29, 2008.

  1. David Empson

    David Empson Guest

    {-.-} <> wrote:

    > is it possible ? says here it's not :
    >
    > <http://vodafonenz.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/vodafonenz.cfg/php/enduser/std_a
    > dp.php?p_faqid=6513>
    >
    > but i've read a few postings it's possible.


    It's strange. Vodafone's official policy is that it isn't supported, but
    I have friends with iPhones that are working fine on prepay. They bought
    the iPhone outright and put in an existing prepay SIM.

    By default, you don't get data access, but a simple settings change (of
    the APN) allows it to get data access on the casual rate. This is a
    little risky because the iPhone doesn't have a setting to turn off its
    data access via the Cellular network (unless you jailbreak it), so you
    might end up paying $1 a day just due to automatic Internet connections
    from any applications you run. You could manage this by changing the APN
    only when you want data access.

    I don't know the full details but can probably find out.

    Another risk is that because Vodafone has an official policy of not
    supporting iPhones on prepay, they might do something to actively
    prevent it. It seems that the iPhones sold in New Zealand are unlocked,
    but that might change at some stage, which is likely to prevent them
    working with a prepay SIM. (This is most likely to affect newly sold
    iPhones, but a firwmare update might lock existing ones.)

    Vodafone might also change something on their network to recognise and
    reject iPhones with prepay SIMs.

    You should therefore regard an iPhone on prepay as a somewhat risky
    exercise unless Vodafone changes their official policy.

    Worst case: if they do stop it from working, you will have to get an
    account to keep using the iPhone. Vodafone's cheapest "Choose 20"
    account for $19.95 a month is sufficient for an iPhone (with no minimum
    contract term if you don't want a discount on the iPhone), and they have
    reasonably priced iPhone-specific plans if you want data access and only
    light voice call usage (but with a two year contract).

    Also keep in mind that Telecom's new network is due to arrive in June
    2009, and the iPhone should be compatible with it (850 MHz WCDMA/UMTS).
    This should allow switching from Vodafone's to Telecom's network with a
    Telecom-supplied SIM, and Telecom may start selling the iPhone for their
    network.

    The question is whether Vodafone will try to do anything to actively
    prevent their iPhone users switching to Telecom (apart from tying people
    into two year contracts). If they try, I hope the Commerce Commission
    doesn't let them get away with it. It will be great to have a bit more
    real competition.

    --
    David Empson
    David Empson, Oct 29, 2008
    #1
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  2. David Empson

    David Empson Guest

    thingy <> wrote:

    > David Empson wrote:
    > > {-.-} <> wrote:
    > > -pay
    > >> is it possible ? says here it's not :
    > >>
    > >> <http://vodafonenz.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/vodafonenz.cfg/php/enduser/std_a
    > >> dp.php?p_faqid=6513>
    > >>
    > >> but i've read a few postings it's possible.

    > >
    > > It's strange. Vodafone's official policy is that it isn't supported, but
    > > I have friends with iPhones that are working fine on prepay. They bought
    > > the iPhone outright and put in an existing prepay SIM.

    >
    > Their wording, maybe very "careful"...One way to read it is, to say you
    > cannot wander into a store and buy an iPhone with a pre-pay sim card as
    > a "package" or if you have an issue, they wont help....


    But why are they treating the iPhone differently to every other phone?

    Unless there is a technical reason for the iPhone not working on prepay
    (and I don't see any evidence of that), the main reason I can think of
    for actively discouraging iPhone on prepay is the risk of customers
    unexpectedly paying $1 per day for occasional random automatic data
    access by applications on the iPhone (if the right APN is used).

    In this case, Vodafone might be able to change their official policy if
    Apple adds a standard setting to turn cellular data access on and off
    (like the existing WiFi setting).

    > > Also keep in mind that Telecom's new network is due to arrive in June
    > > 2009, and the iPhone should be compatible with it (850 MHz WCDMA/UMTS).
    > > This should allow switching from Vodafone's to Telecom's network with a
    > > Telecom-supplied SIM, and Telecom may start selling the iPhone for their
    > > network.
    > >
    > > The question is whether Vodafone will try to do anything to actively
    > > prevent their iPhone users switching to Telecom

    >
    > How can they? if they locked an iphone to vodafone only, then I would
    > expect the commerce commission to have words.


    Me too.

    Going from past history, Vodafone tries as hard as it can to tie people
    into contracts or accounts, and setting arbitrary rules which make it
    difficult to change, unless someone with a big stick makes them change
    their policy (lack of number portability from Vodafone accounts to
    Vodafone prepay was one such issue).

    If Telecom has a GSM/SIM-based network, it will be even easier for
    customers to change providers (while keeping the same phone). I hope
    that this will result in even greater competition.

    --
    David Empson
    David Empson, Oct 30, 2008
    #2
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  3. David Empson

    Richard Guest

    David Empson wrote:

    > If Telecom has a GSM/SIM-based network, it will be even easier for
    > customers to change providers (while keeping the same phone). I hope
    > that this will result in even greater competition.


    Telecom have said they will not be doing GSM, great news IMO, will be
    UMTS all the way so none of this dropping back to 2g crap that you get
    on vodafone if you dont have the ability to disable it on handset.
    Richard, Oct 30, 2008
    #3
  4. David Empson

    David Empson Guest

    Richard <> wrote:

    > David Empson wrote:
    >
    > > If Telecom has a GSM/SIM-based network, it will be even easier for
    > > customers to change providers (while keeping the same phone). I hope
    > > that this will result in even greater competition.

    >
    > Telecom have said they will not be doing GSM, great news IMO, will be
    > UMTS all the way so none of this dropping back to 2g crap that you get
    > on vodafone if you dont have the ability to disable it on handset.


    OK, good to know. (I expected that was the case.)

    That should mean 3G phones which support UMTS on both 850 MHz and 2.1
    GHz should be able to network hop by changing the SIM. (The iPhone 3G is
    one such phone.)

    --
    David Empson
    David Empson, Oct 31, 2008
    #4
  5. David Empson

    David Empson Guest

    thingy <> wrote:

    > David Empson wrote:
    > > thingy <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> David Empson wrote:
    > >>> {-.-} <> wrote:
    > >>> -pay
    > >>>> is it possible ? says here it's not :
    > >>>> end
    > >>>> <http://vodafonenz.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/vodafonenz.cfg/php/enduser/std_a
    > >>>> dp.php?p_faqid=6513>
    > >>>>
    > >>>> but i've read a few postings it's possible.
    > >>> It's strange. Vodafone's official policy is that it isn't supported, but
    > >>> I have friends with iPhones that are working fine on prepay. They bought
    > >>> the iPhone outright and put in an existing prepay SIM.
    > >> Their wording, maybe very "careful"...One way to read it is, to say you
    > >> cannot wander into a store and buy an iPhone with a pre-pay sim card as
    > >> a "package" or if you have an issue, they wont help....

    > >
    > > But why are they treating the iPhone differently to every other phone?

    >
    > Profit margin, (monopolists, remember its a telco, as is Apple)...as
    > much as Apple's as theirs...they probably dont make a huge amount on the
    > phone after Apple takes its cut, also I think Apple insists on a % of
    > the user monthly bill


    I agree that Vodafone's motives are likely to be suspect.

    I don't think Apple is getting any cut from monthly bills. That was
    certainly an aspect of the original iPhone on AT&T, but there is no
    evidence of this with the iPhone 3G.

    Consider Vodafone's other (fully supported) pricing options: you can buy
    an iPhone outright at full price, then put your own on-account SIM into
    the iPhone (e.g. with a Choose 20 account). Apart from the one-off cost
    of buying the phone, this costs exactly the same on an ongoing basis as
    any other cellphone. If Apple was getting a cut from the ongoing usage
    charges, you'd expect Vodafone to pass this on to customers.

    Vodafone's "iPhone" plans work out _cheaper_ than their other on-account
    plans for the same combination of options, with a bigger discount on
    buying the phone on contract, and excess data usage charges are much
    cheaper. This makes an Apple surcharge even less likely.

    Some other countries are selling unlocked iPhones on the equivalent of
    prepay. I haven't checked the details to see whether it is a "special"
    iPhone-only prepay service, but if it is the same as for any other phone
    then the manufacturer won't be getting any kind of cut apart from the
    original sale of the phone.

    All the evidence I can see points to Apple getting a one-off sale price
    for the iPhone 3G, and the telco on-selling it to the customer with
    their own markup. If you get one on a contract, Apple's cut is paid
    upfront by the telco and you have to pay it off over the term of the
    contract. Same as every other cellphone.

    --
    David Empson
    David Empson, Oct 31, 2008
    #5
  6. David Empson

    Your Name Guest

    "whoisthis" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <490a0bcf$>, thingy <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    > > Will watch with interest...."she who must be obeyed" would like an
    > > iPhone...(its her mad money) so we will see, I'm happy with my $90

    one...
    > >
    > > regards
    > >
    > > Thing

    >
    > Ahh I want one for some of the Apps, VOIP, GPS (golf), and Diabetes
    > management.

    <snip>

    You forgot the Force Unleashed game. ;-)
    Your Name, Oct 31, 2008
    #6
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