Re: Improve the quality of Usenet

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Mike Easter, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. Mike Easter

    Mike Easter Guest

    Billabong wrote:
    > It is about some real criminals on the Usenet in "hr." domain,


    It is not practical for me to read genuine examples of the issue in the
    ..hr groups because of language constraints.

    > as described
    > www.disclaimer.hrvat.name same time ago,


    That wordy page is also not useful to me for this discussion.

    > who are engaged in faking my sig
    > and the contents of my message;


    The typical scenario is what is called 'spoofing' or alternatively
    forgery. It is common for spoofers to use the handle of another and
    'pretend' to be them. The forger goes further and uses the email
    address in the From or may even go so far as to post via the same
    newsserver or using the same posting software.

    Presumably you are talking about spoofing or forging.

    > I would like to stop them, before I get too
    > angry and do something that we all would regret later;


    The over-riding 'philosophy' of usenet is that you can't stop anyone
    from doing anything; you can just find techniques to mitigate something.

    You cannot stop people from spoofing; it isn't even against the
    'rules'. If someone is forging amateurishly, you can notify the
    provider for the newsserver they use to post, as forging /is/ against
    the rules.

    > I do not want spent
    > my last dollar in order to find out their identities and deal with them
    > accordingly.


    Frequently it is totally impractical to determine the meatspace identity
    of some usenet entity; and typically doing so doesn't do anything to
    mitigate what you are presumably talking about.

    > I know already one person who assumes several nicks, but it may
    > be more than one. In case I would opt for that, then I would demand a firm
    > guarantee that they would NEVER AGAIN do anything like that to me ...


    Don't be ridiculous.

    > and
    > probably to no one else. If I pay good dollar, the job must be perfectly
    > executed.


    That sounds more like bumping someone off.

    > Here is what I think instead.


    What you think instead is not even realistic.

    Here are some practical remedies to a spoofing problem.

    If you use a newsserver which stamps the NPH NNTP-Posting-Host, that is
    a line which is difficult to forge. Then your news server would be
    stamping your NPH and your adversary would not easily forge the line or
    post from your IP address.
    -or-
    If you use a newsserver such as eternal-september which is now stamping
    a piece of information in the posting-account section of the
    Injection-Info line which posting-account is an encryption of your login
    user information, then...

    .... your posts would be so characterized, but your adversary's would not.

    Those methods of using a newsserver's headers to your advantage in
    identifying your posts serve to distinguish the sporged posts from your own.

    The extreme measure of using gpg/pgp clear signing to stamp your posts
    has a number of flaws which make it not a good or practical solution.

    > There must be some software, or some tool


    Your giganews news server does not stamp your messages in any useful way
    that would make them unique to you.

    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Jan 8, 2010
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Sorry wrote:

    > From: Billabong <>
    > From: Sorry <>


    Is this a morph for you, Billabong/hrvat ? Why?

    > I know it is the best to call readers to my own website, but then if
    > my sig is changed people cannot reach it; and they would say that I
    > am spamming with my sig, because I promote my web site.
    > --
    > A life story: http://tinyurl.com/y8fcpmp


    Life story? <lol!> If you want any attention at all, you will stop
    using that tinyurl for your website. Your own URL is no longer.
    http://www.hrvat.name/disclaimer
    http://www.disclaimer.hrvat.name/
    Make up your mind.

    --
    -bts
    -Four wheels carry the body; two wheels move the soul
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Jan 8, 2010
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Mike Easter

    Dan C Guest

    On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 06:31:10 +0800, Sorry wrote:

    > "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Billabong wrote:
    >>> It is about some real criminals on the Usenet in "hr." domain,

    >>
    >> It is not practical for me to read genuine examples of the issue in the
    >> .hr groups because of language constraints.
    >>
    >>> as described www.disclaimer.hrvat.name same time ago,

    >>
    >> That wordy page is also not useful to me for this discussion.
    >>
    >> > who are engaged in faking my sig
    >>> and the contents of my message;

    >>
    >> The typical scenario is what is called 'spoofing' or alternatively
    >> forgery. It is common for spoofers to use the handle of another and
    >> 'pretend' to be them. The forger goes further and uses the email
    >> address in the From or may even go so far as to post via the same
    >> newsserver or using the same posting software.
    >>
    >> Presumably you are talking about spoofing or forging.
    >>
    >> > I would like to stop them, before I get too
    >>> angry and do something that we all would regret later;

    >>
    >> The over-riding 'philosophy' of usenet is that you can't stop anyone
    >> from doing anything; you can just find techniques to mitigate
    >> something.
    >>
    >> You cannot stop people from spoofing; it isn't even against the
    >> 'rules'. If someone is forging amateurishly, you can notify the
    >> provider for the newsserver they use to post, as forging /is/ against
    >> the rules.
    >>
    >>> I do not want spent my last dollar in order to find out their
    >>> identities and deal with them accordingly.

    >>
    >> Frequently it is totally impractical to determine the meatspace
    >> identity of some usenet entity; and typically doing so doesn't do
    >> anything to mitigate what you are presumably talking about.
    >>
    >>> I know already one person who assumes several nicks, but it may be
    >>> more than one. In case I would opt for that, then I would demand a
    >>> firm guarantee that they would NEVER AGAIN do anything like that to me
    >>> ...

    >>
    >> Don't be ridiculous.
    >>
    >> > and
    >>> probably to no one else. If I pay good dollar, the job must be
    >>> perfectly executed.

    >>
    >> That sounds more like bumping someone off.
    >>
    >>> Here is what I think instead.

    >>
    >> What you think instead is not even realistic.
    >>
    >> Here are some practical remedies to a spoofing problem.
    >>
    >> If you use a newsserver which stamps the NPH NNTP-Posting-Host, that is
    >> a line which is difficult to forge. Then your news server would be
    >> stamping your NPH and your adversary would not easily forge the line or
    >> post from your IP address.
    >> -or-
    >> If you use a newsserver such as eternal-september which is now stamping
    >> a piece of information in the posting-account section of the
    >> Injection-Info line which posting-account is an encryption of your
    >> login user information, then...
    >>
    >> ... your posts would be so characterized, but your adversary's would
    >> not.
    >>
    >> Those methods of using a newsserver's headers to your advantage in
    >> identifying your posts serve to distinguish the sporged posts from your
    >> own.
    >>
    >> The extreme measure of using gpg/pgp clear signing to stamp your posts
    >> has a number of flaws which make it not a good or practical solution.
    >>
    >> > There must be some software, or some tool

    >>
    >> Your giganews news server does not stamp your messages in any useful
    >> way that would make them unique to you.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Mike Easter

    >
    > Mike, could you advise me more directly. Please! For example, the forger
    > would change www.hrvat.name into www.hrbat.name or similar. and some
    > phrases in the text that would alter the meaning. When I notice is
    > already too late. I know it is the best to call readers to my own
    > website, but then if my sig is changed people cannot reach it; and they
    > would say that I am spamming with my sig, because I promote my web site.


    Jesus, you're a dumb ****. Bugger the **** off and go troll somewhere
    else, doofus.


    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
    "Bother!" said Pooh, as he wiped the vomit from his chin.
    Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
    Dan C, Jan 8, 2010
    #3
  4. Mike Easter

    Mike Easter Guest

    Sorry wrote:
    > "Mike Easter"
    >> Billabong wrote:


    >>> who are engaged in faking my sig
    >>> and the contents of my message;


    >> Presumably you are talking about spoofing or forging.


    >> Here are some practical remedies to a spoofing problem.


    > Mike, could you advise me more directly. Please!


    If I could see an example of a newsgroup and message in which this
    problem is occurring in which the posts were in English, I could
    understand any problem better.

    The best way for you to illustrate would be to provide here the
    message-id of several messages (in English) which have been posted by
    the spoofer. If the spoofer is not being active in English but only a
    language like Croatian, it would be too tedious for me to see what is
    happening.

    I am not interested in opening up an email correspondence with you.

    > For example, the forger would change www.hrvat.name into www.hrbat.name or
    > similar. and some phrases in the text that would alter the meaning.


    I think I understand that concept; altho' I don't yet understand the
    purpose or intent; if it is just to harrass you or for some other goal.

    > When I
    > notice is already too late.


    What does 'too late' mean in this context? Too late for what? Too late
    for you to say, "That post is not mine/me."? Or something else?

    > I know it is the best to call readers to my own
    > website,


    I don't know what that sentence means in this context.

    > but then if my sig is changed people cannot reach it; and they
    > would say that I am spamming with my sig, because I promote my web site.


    I can't tell what this is all about yet.


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Jan 8, 2010
    #4
  5. Mike Easter

    Dan C Guest

    On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 12:52:34 +0800, Sorry wrote:

    > "VanguardLH" <> wrote in message
    > news:hi7obg$s1q$...
    >> Sorry - who was Billabong - wrote:
    >>
    >>> Mike, could you advise me more directly. Please! For example, the
    >>> forger would change www.hrvat.name into www.hrbat.name or
    >>> similar. and some phrases in the text that would alter the meaning.
    >>> When I
    >>> notice is already too late. I know it is the best to call readers to
    >>> my own
    >>> website, but then if my sig is changed people cannot reach it; and
    >>> they would say that I am spamming with my sig, because I promote my
    >>> web site.

    >>
    >> So you bitch about someone impersonating you - and now you are
    >> nymshifting.
    >> Uh huh, like we care about the wants of a nymshifting troll.
    >>
    >> No, the imposter did NOT change the URL in *your* post. They decided
    >> what to put into THEIR post. The imposter cannot change YOUR sig in
    >> YOUR post. They cannot change YOUR post. Just as you do, they decide
    >> on whatever content to put into THEIR post. They can forge their
    >> identity to look like
    >> you. Then can NOT edit *your* posts.
    >>
    >> So your real concern is that you want to spam the newsgroups to draw
    >> traffic
    >> to your web site. Yeah, like we care about the wants of spammers ...
    >> not! No one has to "say" you are spamming. You just admitted it.
    >> Luckily some of us Usenetizens use newsreaders that strip out the
    >> signature with all that
    >> ego-stroking and off-topic fluff.
    >>
    >> Stop satisfying the imposter. That's what makes them happy. When you
    >> whine, they get satisfied. If your point is to spam the newsgroups to
    >> draw
    >> attention to your web site, well, no one cares about your misuse of
    >> Usenet.
    >> You aren't any better than the imposter.

    >
    > I am trying NOT to spam, but, it seems that every person has their own
    > idea about what constitutes a spam. Now beneat I shall include two sigs
    > of mine, of which one would appear beneath my ON-TOPIC conversation. If
    > you or any of you guys would tell me, please, which of these two
    > signatures constitutes spam, if any?


    **** off you dimwitted nymshifter. Just go away. Better yet, kill
    yourself.


    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
    "Bother!" said Pooh, as he wiped the vomit from his chin.
    Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
    Dan C, Jan 9, 2010
    #5
  6. Mike Easter

    Mike Easter Guest

    Sorry wrote:

    > I am trying NOT to spam, but, it seems that every person has their own idea
    > about what constitutes a spam. Now beneat I shall include two sigs of mine,
    > of which one would appear beneath my ON-TOPIC conversation. If you or any of
    > you guys would tell me, please, which of these two signatures constitutes
    > spam, if any?


    If you are replying responsively to a message, or posting a new ontopic
    message, there is absolutely no problem with using either of those two
    oneline sig content.

    I consider it an acceptable practice for a poster to have a link to hir
    website in the sig, whether using a URL shortener or not.

    I think if you were going to be sending someone to your site's page to
    'tell them who you are' or what you are about, I would make the page
    linked be simplified and clarified compared to what is there.

    Just for an exercise, see if you can try to encapsulate what you are
    trying to say there in about 5-7% of the amount of words. First reduce
    it to about 15%, then cut that in half.



    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Jan 9, 2010
    #6
  7. Mike Easter

    VanguardLH Guest

    Sorry wrote:

    > I am trying NOT to spam, but, it seems that every person has their own idea
    > about what constitutes a spam. Now beneat I shall include two sigs of mine,
    > of which one would appear beneath my ON-TOPIC conversation. If you or any of
    > you guys would tell me, please, which of these two signatures constitutes
    > spam, if any?
    >
    > --
    > Visit www. hrvat. name


    (NOTE: Spaces were added to all URLs to your site to not make them
    clickable.)

    I have no idea why you think anyone is going to peruse an *index* of pages
    at this URL in your signature.

    If your signature isn't germaine to the topic of the post, like a help site
    in which some of it addresses the problem or topic being discussed then you
    are spamming your site for some off-topic purpose. From the meanderings of
    your disclaimer page, it appears you have others that want to divert
    attention away from your private or off-line "help" or advertising. It
    certainly appears that you are like other spammers who post but whose real
    intention is to draw traffic to their web site. An example of this was with
    the Signapore "service" poster that was constantly spamming his web site to
    *sell* his services, like at:

    http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger/msg/faa363d278d70e68

    He would offer help while also spamming his services. I haven't bothered to
    review your posts to see if you even offer help to partially compensate for
    your web site spamming. Since you started nymshifting here, I'm not sure
    under what moniker I should search for your posts (and "Sorry" is hardly a
    unique enough moniker to do a search on it to find just your posts).
    According to a Google Groups search on "author:billabong", you've only been
    posting for a couple weeks under that moniker. If impostering has been a
    long-time problem for you then you have been nymshifting for awhile.

    Regarding your TinyURL redirect, just why do you *hide* the actual URL? And
    why did you omit the "preview" hostname so users can see to where they will
    visit but BEFORE they go there? Use:

    http://preview. tinyurl. com/ y8fcpmp

    so users can see the target URL for your redirection URL. Considering how
    short is the real URL (http://www.hrvat.name/disclaimer) behind this
    redirection, you are using the redirection for a surreptitious reason.

    http:// tinyurl. com/ y8fcpmp
    http:// preview. tinyurl. com/ y8fcpmp
    http:// www. hrvat. name/ disclaimer

    You really haven't shortened your URL by much, have you, and which is the
    purpose of using TinyURL (well, besides trolls and spammers that want to
    mislead users to visiting someplace that they would never otherwise go).

    In the threads that you start or participate, is your site actually on-topic
    to THAT thread? What I see is just an index to a bunch of disconnected
    pages under numerous folders. There is nothing that exhibits a concerted
    effort to produce a help web site or any web site that has a consistent
    topic. It's just a jumbled mess of pages. So it would never be on-topic to
    any thread in which you participated. At best it might be some jumbled mess
    for a blog but blogs are rarely on-topic to a thread but rather someone's
    ego stroking of their ramblings they put online.
    VanguardLH, Jan 9, 2010
    #7
  8. Mike Easter

    Jenn Guest

    "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Sorry wrote:
    >
    >> I am trying NOT to spam, but, it seems that every person has their own
    >> idea about what constitutes a spam. Now beneat I shall include two sigs
    >> of mine, of which one would appear beneath my ON-TOPIC conversation. If
    >> you or any of you guys would tell me, please, which of these two
    >> signatures constitutes spam, if any?

    >
    > If you are replying responsively to a message, or posting a new ontopic
    > message, there is absolutely no problem with using either of those two
    > oneline sig content.
    >
    > I consider it an acceptable practice for a poster to have a link to hir
    > website in the sig, whether using a URL shortener or not.
    >

    <snip>

    Can you recommend a site that that does this URL shortening?

    --
    Jenn (from Oklahoma)
    Jenn, Jan 9, 2010
    #8
  9. Mike Easter

    Mike Easter Guest

    Jenn wrote:
    > "Mike Easter"


    >> I consider it an acceptable practice for a poster to have a link to hir
    >> website in the sig, whether using a URL shortener or not.


    > Can you recommend a site that that does this URL shortening?


    I use Snip URL - snurl -but I haven't researched them lately. There are
    so many now. http://snipurl.com/site/index

    I keep a snurl 'tool' in my bookmarks and bookmarks toolbar so that I
    can create a shortened link wherever I am to paste into an email or news
    message.

    Some have a feature that allows previewing of the target site's link
    before going there, so that you can see what the real link actually is
    before you are directed to the real link's site. That's a useful feature.


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Jan 9, 2010
    #9
  10. Mike Easter

    Jenn Guest

    Mike Easter wrote:
    > Jenn wrote:
    >> "Mike Easter"

    >
    >>> I consider it an acceptable practice for a poster to have a link to
    >>> hir website in the sig, whether using a URL shortener or not.

    >
    >> Can you recommend a site that that does this URL shortening?

    >
    > I use Snip URL - snurl -but I haven't researched them lately. There
    > are so many now. http://snipurl.com/site/index
    >
    > I keep a snurl 'tool' in my bookmarks and bookmarks toolbar so that I
    > can create a shortened link wherever I am to paste into an email or
    > news message.
    >
    > Some have a feature that allows previewing of the target site's link
    > before going there, so that you can see what the real link actually is
    > before you are directed to the real link's site. That's a useful
    > feature.


    Thanks! another friend actually gave me the same link, so it must be a good
    site to use. lol

    --
    Jenn (from Oklahoma)
    Jenn, Jan 9, 2010
    #10
  11. Mike Easter

    Dan C Guest

    On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 09:31:48 -0600, Jenn wrote:

    > Mike Easter wrote:
    >> Jenn wrote:
    >>> "Mike Easter"

    >>
    >>>> I consider it an acceptable practice for a poster to have a link to
    >>>> hir website in the sig, whether using a URL shortener or not.

    >>
    >>> Can you recommend a site that that does this URL shortening?

    >>
    >> I use Snip URL - snurl -but I haven't researched them lately. There
    >> are so many now. http://snipurl.com/site/index
    >>
    >> I keep a snurl 'tool' in my bookmarks and bookmarks toolbar so that I
    >> can create a shortened link wherever I am to paste into an email or
    >> news message.
    >>
    >> Some have a feature that allows previewing of the target site's link
    >> before going there, so that you can see what the real link actually is
    >> before you are directed to the real link's site. That's a useful
    >> feature.

    >
    > Thanks! another friend actually gave me the same link, so it must be a
    > good site to use. lol


    Yeah, god forbid you do a simple google search on "url shortener" or
    something complicated like that!

    Who ties your fucking shoelaces for you in the mornings?


    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
    "Bother!" said Pooh, as he wiped the vomit from his chin.
    Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
    Dan C, Jan 9, 2010
    #11
  12. Mike Easter

    Jenn Guest

    Dan C wrote:
    > On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 09:31:48 -0600, Jenn wrote:
    >
    >> Mike Easter wrote:
    >>> Jenn wrote:
    >>>> "Mike Easter"
    >>>
    >>>>> I consider it an acceptable practice for a poster to have a link
    >>>>> to hir website in the sig, whether using a URL shortener or not.
    >>>
    >>>> Can you recommend a site that that does this URL shortening?
    >>>
    >>> I use Snip URL - snurl -but I haven't researched them lately. There
    >>> are so many now. http://snipurl.com/site/index
    >>>
    >>> I keep a snurl 'tool' in my bookmarks and bookmarks toolbar so that
    >>> I can create a shortened link wherever I am to paste into an email
    >>> or news message.
    >>>
    >>> Some have a feature that allows previewing of the target site's link
    >>> before going there, so that you can see what the real link actually
    >>> is before you are directed to the real link's site. That's a useful
    >>> feature.

    >>
    >> Thanks! another friend actually gave me the same link, so it must
    >> be a good site to use. lol

    >
    > Yeah, god forbid you do a simple google search on "url shortener" or
    > something complicated like that!
    >
    > Who ties your fucking shoelaces for you in the mornings?


    I did do a google search, first, but I also wanted the educated opinion of a
    person who gives good advice because you never know what you are clicking on
    in a google search. The good advice portion ... I believe Mike Easter gives
    good advice... ergo .. that's why I asked him specifically, since he did
    mention it in his post that I responded to. I also asked another friend who
    also gives gives good advice and he told me the same url. I believe I had
    both bases covered ... doing a google search first for myself, and asking
    for good advice from others who already know a good url.

    I tend to cover all the bases before I go clicking wildly on google links
    that pop up in any searches.

    --
    Jenn (from Oklahoma)
    Jenn, Jan 9, 2010
    #12
  13. Mike Easter

    Mike Easter Guest

    Steve wrote:

    > You're the Croat Ed Wollman, aren't you?


    Where did you get the idea that Edmond Wollman the astrologist was Croatian?


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Jan 10, 2010
    #13
  14. Mike Easter

    Mike Easter Guest

    Steve wrote:
    > Mike Easter
    >> Steve wrote:


    >>> You're the Croat Ed Wollman, aren't you?


    >> Where did you get the idea that Edmond Wollman the astrologist was Croatian?

    >
    > What leads you to believe he isn't?


    Edmond H. Wollmann the astrologist's websites say that he was born in
    Ohio, grew up in NM and now is living in SoCal.

    I don't know of any Croatian Ed Wollman or Wollmann.


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Jan 10, 2010
    #14
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