Re: Hmm..0870

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Roger Mills, Jul 30, 2009.

  1. Roger Mills

    Roger Mills Guest

    In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
    Russell Hafter News <> wrote:

    >
    > In response to consumer concerns, Ofcom have reviewed the
    > use of 0870 numbers in the UK and are introducing new
    > rules, effective from 1 August 2009, to stop the charging
    > of higher prices for calls to 0870 numbers from fixed
    > lines.
    >


    I assume that the reference to 'fixed lines' means that this directive
    doesn't apply to mobiles.

    But where does that leave:
    1. Indirect operators such as 18866 ?
    2. VoIP ?

    Both call18866 and voip.co.uk are still quoting 8 or 9 ppm for daytime calls
    to 0870 numbers. Is there any requirement for either or both to bring these
    into line with 01/02/03 calls?
    --
    Cheers,
    Roger
    ______
    Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
    monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
    PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!
     
    Roger Mills, Jul 30, 2009
    #1
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  2. Roger Mills

    Jono Guest

    Roger Mills wrote on 30/07/2009 :
    > In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
    > Russell Hafter News <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> In response to consumer concerns, Ofcom have reviewed the
    >> use of 0870 numbers in the UK and are introducing new
    >> rules, effective from 1 August 2009, to stop the charging
    >> of higher prices for calls to 0870 numbers from fixed
    >> lines.
    >>

    >
    > I assume that the reference to 'fixed lines' means that this directive
    > doesn't apply to mobiles.
    >
    > But where does that leave:
    > 1. Indirect operators such as 18866 ?
    > 2. VoIP ?
    >
    > Both call18866 and voip.co.uk are still quoting 8 or 9 ppm for daytime calls
    > to 0870 numbers. Is there any requirement for either or both to bring these
    > into line with 01/02/03 calls?


    There is no requirement for a CP to bring them in to line with
    01/02/03. As the wholesale cost of calling 0870 is much mucg higher
    than the whoilesale cost of geo numbers, if it were enforced, CPs may
    have to increase call charges to 01/02/03.

    The actual wording from Ofcom is:

    We have decided not to require the use of pricing announcements and are
    presenting modified proposals

    1.6 We are proposing that we should implement the changes to the way
    0870 calls are charged but have modified our proposals in the light of
    the problems that might be caused by announcements. Instead of
    announcements we are proposing that CPs wishing to charge more for 0870
    calls than for geographic calls would be subject to new requirements to
    display their 0870 charges prominently on price lists and advertising/
    promotional materials
     
    Jono, Jul 30, 2009
    #2
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  3. Roger Mills

    Roger Mills Guest

    In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
    Roger Mills <> wrote:

    > In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
    > Russell Hafter News <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> In response to consumer concerns, Ofcom have reviewed the
    >> use of 0870 numbers in the UK and are introducing new
    >> rules, effective from 1 August 2009, to stop the charging
    >> of higher prices for calls to 0870 numbers from fixed
    >> lines.
    >>

    >
    > I assume that the reference to 'fixed lines' means that this directive
    > doesn't apply to mobiles.
    >
    > But where does that leave:
    > 1. Indirect operators such as 18866 ?
    > 2. VoIP ?
    >
    > Both call18866 and voip.co.uk are still quoting 8 or 9 ppm for
    > daytime calls to 0870 numbers. Is there any requirement for either or
    > both to bring these into line with 01/02/03 calls?



    To (partially) answer my own question:

    I emailed both Call18866 and voip.co.uk to ask them how they were responding
    to the Ofcom directive.

    I haven't had a reply from call18866 - now why doesn't that surprise
    me(?!) - and their tariff list is still showing 9ppm on weekdays.

    *However*, voip.co.uk did respond - saying that they were bringing 0870
    calls into line with 01/02/03 calls. They didn't actually achieve it on 1st
    August (or, if they *did*, it wasn't reflected in their published tariff)
    *but* - as of about lunchtime today, they are now showing UK 'National Rate'
    calls as being 1ppm at all times - the same a geographic numbers.

    RESULT!!
    --
    Cheers,
    Roger
    ______
    Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
    monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
    PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!
     
    Roger Mills, Aug 3, 2009
    #3
  4. Roger Mills

    Rufus Stone Guest

    On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:34:42 +0100, "Roger Mills"
    <> wrote:


    >*However*, voip.co.uk did respond - saying that they were bringing 0870
    >calls into line with 01/02/03 calls. They didn't actually achieve it on 1st
    >August (or, if they *did*, it wasn't reflected in their published tariff)
    >*but* - as of about lunchtime today, they are now showing UK 'National Rate'
    >calls as being 1ppm at all times - the same a geographic numbers.
    >
    >RESULT!!


    One thing some voip.co.uk customers may not be aware of is that they
    have withdrawn their 'UK Monthly Bundle'. Only older residential
    customers have (had) this package and kept it by keeping their
    accounts in credit.

    According to voip.co.uk:-

    "Due to the recent changes regarding 0870 NTS numbers we've had to
    revoke the UK pack as this cannot support the required alteration. But
    continuing to offer the UK Pack after August 1st 2009 without the
    support for 0870 numbers the UK Pack we would be in breach of the new
    Ofcom regulation."

    If you were on this package you will probably find that it has now
    gone and you will now be paying 1ppm for each UK call.
     
    Rufus Stone, Aug 3, 2009
    #4
  5. Roger Mills

    Roger Mills Guest

    In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
    Rufus Stone <> wrote:

    >
    > "Due to the recent changes regarding 0870 NTS numbers we've had to
    > revoke the UK pack as this cannot support the required alteration. But
    > continuing to offer the UK Pack after August 1st 2009 without the
    > support for 0870 numbers the UK Pack we would be in breach of the new
    > Ofcom regulation."
    >
    > If you were on this package you will probably find that it has now
    > gone and you will now be paying 1ppm for each UK call.


    No, I was never on this package. It's not been available to new starters for
    quite a while, although it *was* available when I first started using
    voip.co.uk An analysis of my call patterns convinced me that it wouldn't
    save me anything anyway, so I'm not too bothered by its withdrawal -
    although I appreciate that some people might be. [I spend less than £2 per
    month on voip calls at 1ppm, especially now that I get free BT evening and
    weekend calls.]
    --
    Cheers,
    Roger
    ______
    Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
    monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
    PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!
     
    Roger Mills, Aug 4, 2009
    #5
  6. Roger Mills

    Roger Mills Guest

    In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
    Jono <> wrote:

    >
    > They [voip.co.uk] obviously don't understand the "regulation".
    >
    > call18866 do though. They're perfectly entitled to charge whatever
    > they want for calls to 0870, providing their price list states so
    > clearly.


    .. . . and provided they don't describe them as 'National Rate' - which they
    don't, so they'll probably carry on charging 9ppm on weekdays. I won't be
    making any 0870 calls via their service!
    --
    Cheers,
    Roger
    ______
    Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
    monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
    PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!
     
    Roger Mills, Aug 4, 2009
    #6
  7. Roger Mills

    Urban Fox Guest

    On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:48:19 +0100, Jono <>
    wrote:

    >They obviously don't understand the "regulation".


    Some of the cynics amongst us might think that this was a good
    opportunity to remove a less profitable plan from the portfolio.
     
    Urban Fox, Aug 4, 2009
    #7
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