Re: Help Erasing Files on CDRW Disk

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by mousely, Jun 30, 2003.

  1. mousely

    mousely Guest

    I would format in udf...and use the nero packet write software and delete
    from there..the advantages outnumber the drawbacks tenfold
    "Frank" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > I'm running Win 98se with Adaptec Easy CD Creator v 3.5c and Adaptec
    > Direct CD Wizard 2.5d. I created a multisession CDRW disk using the
    > Easy CD Creator and have added to the disk. Now I would like to
    > selectively delete some of the files on the CDRW and cannot seem to
    > figure out how that is accomplished. When I go to Windows Explorer
    > (Drive M) and open the files on the CDRW and highlight the files I
    > want to delete I get a message that tells me I cannot delete - access
    > is denied - make sure disk is not full or write protected and the file
    > is not currently in use.
    >
    > To my knowledge the disk is not write protected and I know it is not
    > full.
    > It appears that I can erase all files from the disk if I use the
    > format option in Direct CD Wizard 2.5d utility but with that method
    > all files are removed not just the selected ones - same with the
    > erase feature in the Easy CD Creator utility.
    >
    > Can some one give me some direction and guidance on how one deletes
    > selected files from a multisession CDRW disk so that new files can be
    > created? Or tell me it is not possible to do what I want.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Frank



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    mousely, Jun 30, 2003
    #1
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  2. mousely

    Graham Mayor Guest

    Formatting the disc will not resolve this immediate issue. It would enable a
    future disc to be so treated, but you would sacrifice the security afforded
    by ISO formats for the dubious advantage of selective replacement on a
    backup medium. Given the low cost of CDR media, it is increasingly difficult
    to justify the use of less reliable packet formats and RW discs. Convenience
    may be ten times more important to you, but most people take backup copies
    of important data on the premise that they may wish to access them again.
    This is never quite so certain with UDF packets.

    There is no way to selectively delete files from an ISO format multi-session
    disc. Even if you make a new session 'deleting' the files, they remain to
    occupy space on the disc.

    --
    <>>< ><<> ><<>
    Graham Mayor
    <>>< ><<> ><<>




    mousely wrote:
    > I would format in udf...and use the nero packet write software and
    > delete from there..the advantages outnumber the drawbacks tenfold
    > "Frank" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>
    >>
    >> I'm running Win 98se with Adaptec Easy CD Creator v 3.5c and Adaptec
    >> Direct CD Wizard 2.5d. I created a multisession CDRW disk using the
    >> Easy CD Creator and have added to the disk. Now I would like to
    >> selectively delete some of the files on the CDRW and cannot seem to
    >> figure out how that is accomplished. When I go to Windows Explorer
    >> (Drive M) and open the files on the CDRW and highlight the files I
    >> want to delete I get a message that tells me I cannot delete - access
    >> is denied - make sure disk is not full or write protected and the
    >> file is not currently in use.
    >>
    >> To my knowledge the disk is not write protected and I know it is not
    >> full.
    >> It appears that I can erase all files from the disk if I use the
    >> format option in Direct CD Wizard 2.5d utility but with that method
    >> all files are removed not just the selected ones - same with the
    >> erase feature in the Easy CD Creator utility.
    >>
    >> Can some one give me some direction and guidance on how one deletes
    >> selected files from a multisession CDRW disk so that new files can be
    >> created? Or tell me it is not possible to do what I want.
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >>
    >> Frank

    >
    >
    > ---
    > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    > Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 10/06/03
     
    Graham Mayor, Jun 30, 2003
    #2
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  3. mousely

    smh Guest

    .. --------------------------------------
    Graham Mayor, were you also born with
    "Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
    --------------------------------------

    Graham Mayor wrote:
    >
    > Given the low cost of CDR media, it is increasingly difficult
    > to justify the use of less reliable packet formats and RW discs.


    So you know all about packet writing. How about responding to this?

    ===================================================================
    From: smh
    Subject: Re: CDRW writer?
    Date: 6/29/03

    Graham Mayor wrote:
    >
    > The answer is to break away from the flaky world of packet writing and
    > create multisession ISO data discs with Nero, which both machines should
    > be able to read and write (with Nero) - whether you use CDR or RW discs.


    Isn't it about time you respond to this?

    ------------------------------
    From: Edward W. Thompson
    Subject: Re: Nero InCD 3.2 vs WinXP CD Writer software (roxio)
    Date: 2/22/02

    "Graham Mayor" wrote:
    >
    > You are thinking of replacing a relatively secure filing system,
    > with a less stable one, simply to allow you to delete individual
    > files from a rewritable disc?


    If one accepts the statement that UDF is insecure, (I assume that is
    what is meant by "less stable") it would be absurd to use it.
    Although I have seen many statements to the effect that data has been
    lost on UDF disks I have not had that experience over the past 4 to 5
    years. Most statement criticizing UDF are linked to long term data
    storage. I don't use CD-RW media for long term storage only short
    term therefore if it is true that data can be lost over time, that
    does not bother me.

    I have yet to see any proof that data written to UDF is any less secure
    than to any other magnetic or optical media either in short or long
    term. Further, I am surprised that reputable manufacturers would market
    the CD-RW system if it could be shown it was inherently unreliable.
    ------------------------------
    ===================================================================
     
    smh, Jun 30, 2003
    #3
  4. mousely

    Guest

    On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:38:17 +0100, "Graham Mayor"
    <> wrote:

    >Formatting the disc will not resolve this immediate issue. It would enable a
    >future disc to be so treated, but you would sacrifice the security afforded
    >by ISO formats for the dubious advantage of selective replacement on a
    >backup medium. Given the low cost of CDR media, it is increasingly difficult
    >to justify the use of less reliable packet formats and RW discs. Convenience
    >may be ten times more important to you, but most people take backup copies
    >of important data on the premise that they may wish to access them again.
    >This is never quite so certain with UDF packets.
    >
    >There is no way to selectively delete files from an ISO format multi-session
    >disc. Even if you make a new session 'deleting' the files, they remain to
    >occupy space on the disc.


    Thanks immensely for this answer, even though I was not the questioner.

    I am new to this CD stuff and have been trying to delete files from my
    CD-RW disc for some days now. The Roxio instructions say it can be
    done, but I find it impossible.

    I'm using a Dell Dimension 8250 with the supplied CD-RW drive and the
    free version of Roxio that came with the machine.

    Why do the Roxio instructions say this can be done?

    What is the other method they might be referring to that would allow
    selectively deleting files?

    Thanks again.

    - Totally puzzled -
     
    , Sep 30, 2004
    #4
  5. wrote:

    ......
    > I'm using a Dell Dimension 8250 with the supplied CD-RW drive and the
    > free version of Roxio that came with the machine.
    >

    I doubt it's "free": the license is included with your hardware you bought.

    > Why do the Roxio instructions say this can be done?
    >
    > What is the other method they might be referring to that would allow
    > selectively deleting files?
    >

    It's directcd. You need to format a cdrw for packet writing (should have a
    little directcd symbol in the systray from where you can do that) and
    afterwards you can simply drag&drop and delete files from/to/on it, like a
    zip disk. Just slower, and it's limited to theoretically about 1000times
    until the phase change layer on the cdrw is worn out and won't change
    properties anymore sufficiently.
    Now, that doesn't just happen after such many writes to the whole disk, it
    happens also after that amount of writes to a single important byte inside
    the directory structure (file allocation table) which may be more rapidly
    then you can think of.

    --
    Longhorn error#4711: TCPA / NGSCB VIOLATION: Microsoft optical mouse
    detected penguin patterns on mousepad. Partition scan in progress
     to remove offending incompatible products.  Reactivate your MS software.
    Linux woodpecker.homnet.at 2.6.8reiser4pkt [LinuxCounter#295241]
     
    Walter Mautner, Sep 30, 2004
    #5
  6. mousely

    PC Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:38:17 +0100, "Graham Mayor"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>Formatting the disc will not resolve this immediate issue. It would enable
    >>a
    >>future disc to be so treated, but you would sacrifice the security
    >>afforded
    >>by ISO formats for the dubious advantage of selective replacement on a
    >>backup medium. Given the low cost of CDR media, it is increasingly
    >>difficult
    >>to justify the use of less reliable packet formats and RW discs.
    >>Convenience
    >>may be ten times more important to you, but most people take backup copies
    >>of important data on the premise that they may wish to access them again.
    >>This is never quite so certain with UDF packets.
    >>
    >>There is no way to selectively delete files from an ISO format
    >>multi-session
    >>disc. Even if you make a new session 'deleting' the files, they remain to
    >>occupy space on the disc.

    >
    > Thanks immensely for this answer, even though I was not the questioner.
    >
    > I am new to this CD stuff and have been trying to delete files from my
    > CD-RW disc for some days now. The Roxio instructions say it can be
    > done, but I find it impossible.
    >
    > I'm using a Dell Dimension 8250 with the supplied CD-RW drive and the
    > free version of Roxio that came with the machine.
    >
    > Why do the Roxio instructions say this can be done?
    >
    > What is the other method they might be referring to that would allow
    > selectively deleting files?
    >
    > Thanks again.
    >
    > - Totally puzzled -
    >


    Joe

    I suspect you have recorded your files in CDR format to your CDRW disk.
    Using the CDR format means their is no way of removing individual files
    without eraseing 'all' the files on the disk.
    Go to the help in your Burning software and read ALL of what it says on
    CDR/CDRW formats. (try Google too)
    I have frequently found people try to 'rush' through reading it up and miss
    the conceptual difference between the 'way' CDRW's are written to in order
    to be able to delete individual files.

    In a nutshell

    CDR: build a list of files, burn to disk all at once with programs like Nero
    Burning Rom, Easy CD Creator etc.

    CDRW: Format the disk "First" (InCD, Direct CD) then write files like you
    would to a floppy. ie drag & drop, save as from within a program and
    navigate to your CDRW disk.

    One small thing I've noticed with new DVD disks is the use of a 'RW' symbol
    on even record only disk's. I haven't had to buy any CDR/W's for some months
    now so I don't know if the same symbol appears on new CDR/W's now or not.
    I find this 'RW' symbol is (criminaly?) misleading as I initially mistook a
    R disk for RW till I read the fine print.
    Market speak??
    Shades of the 'High Speed / Full Speed' con with USB 1 / USB 2.

    Cheers
    Paul
     
    PC, Sep 30, 2004
    #6
  7. mousely

    smh Guest

    ' --------------------------------------
    Mike Richter, were you born with
    "Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
    --------------------------------------
    (Mike Richter, any Material Connection w/ Roxio?)


    Walter Mautner wrote:
    >
    > It's directcd. You need to format a cdrw for packet writing (should have a
    > little directcd symbol in the systray from where you can do that) and
    > afterwards you can simply drag&drop and delete files from/to/on it, like a
    > zip disk. Just slower, and it's limited to theoretically about 1000times
    > until the phase change layer on the cdrw is worn out and won't change
    > properties anymore sufficiently.


    1000 times is 1000 times. If you write once a day, that's more than 2.5
    years.

    > Now, that doesn't just happen after such many writes to the whole disk, it
    > happens also after that amount of writes to a single important byte inside
    > the directory structure (file allocation table) which may be more rapidly
    > then you can think of.


    There's a fundamental difference between UDF and ISO 9660 file systems.
    The directory of ISO 9660 can NOT be updated, but the directory of UDF
    CAN be updated. ISO 9660 directory has to be determined BEFORE files
    are written. UDF directory is determined AFTER files are written.
    There is no "FAT" in UDF. UDF uses VAT (Virtual Allocation Table). UDF
    writes *new* VAT when files are added/modified/deleted.

    =============================================
    Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (i)
    =============================================

    [Why does DirectCD use SPARING technique? Why the bother, Mikey?]

    ============================================================
    From: smh
    Subject: Does anyone rely on DirectCD for multi-session backups?
    Date: 2/7/02

    Mike Richter (Roxio Shit) splattered:
    >
    > When you remove a fixed-length packet disc after having written
    > anything to it, the directory information is written back from
    > RAM. That means that at least portions of the disc are "scrubbed"
    > - rewritten many times. The disc is supposed to tolerate 1000
    > cycles, but in fact read accuracy goes down continuously with
    > erase cycles and the 1000 number seems absurdly optimistic from
    > the experience of most.


    If that's the case, why does DirectCD even bother to use SPARING
    technique, Mikey?

    And if that's the case, how could cRoxio claim this?
    Is cRoxio lying?

    DirectCD for Windows Technical FAQs:

    "In practical terms, you will probably
    never wear out a CD-RW disc."

    Mike Richter, should you not have cRoxio rewrite the above?
    ===========================================================

    --------------------------------------
    Mike Richter, were you born with
    "Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
    --------------------------------------

    (Mike Richter, any Material Connection w/ Roxio?)
     
    smh, Oct 1, 2004
    #7
  8. mousely

    smh Guest

    > --------------------------------------
    > Mike Richter, were you born with
    > "Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
    > --------------------------------------
    > (Mike Richter, any Material Connection w/ Roxio?)
    >
    > Walter Mautner wrote:
    > >
    > > It's directcd. You need to format a cdrw for packet writing (should have a
    > > little directcd symbol in the systray from where you can do that) and
    > > afterwards you can simply drag&drop and delete files from/to/on it, like a
    > > zip disk. Just slower, and it's limited to theoretically about 1000times
    > > until the phase change layer on the cdrw is worn out and won't change
    > > properties anymore sufficiently.

    >
    > 1000 times is 1000 times. If you write once a day, that's more than 2.5
    > years.
    >
    > > Now, that doesn't just happen after such many writes to the whole disk, it
    > > happens also after that amount of writes to a single important byte inside
    > > the directory structure (file allocation table) which may be more rapidly
    > > then you can think of.

    >
    > There's a fundamental difference between UDF and ISO 9660 file systems.
    > The directory of ISO 9660 can NOT be updated, but the directory of UDF
    > CAN be updated. ISO 9660 directory has to be determined BEFORE files
    > are written. UDF directory is determined AFTER files are written.
    > There is no "FAT" in UDF. UDF uses VAT (Virtual Allocation Table). UDF
    > writes *new* VAT when files are added/modified/deleted.
    >
    > =============================================
    > Mike Richter is a LIAR (directcd/sparing) (i)
    > =============================================
    >
    > [Why does DirectCD use SPARING technique? Why the bother, Mikey?]
    >
    > ============================================================
    > From: smh
    > Subject: Does anyone rely on DirectCD for multi-session backups?
    > Date: 2/7/02
    >
    > Mike Richter (Roxio Shit) splattered:
    > >
    > > When you remove a fixed-length packet disc after having written
    > > anything to it, the directory information is written back from
    > > RAM. That means that at least portions of the disc are "scrubbed"
    > > - rewritten many times. The disc is supposed to tolerate 1000
    > > cycles, but in fact read accuracy goes down continuously with
    > > erase cycles and the 1000 number seems absurdly optimistic from
    > > the experience of most.

    >
    > If that's the case, why does DirectCD even bother to use SPARING
    > technique, Mikey?
    >
    > And if that's the case, how could cRoxio claim this?
    > Is cRoxio lying?
    >
    > DirectCD for Windows Technical FAQs:
    >
    > "In practical terms, you will probably
    > never wear out a CD-RW disc."
    >
    > Mike Richter, should you not have cRoxio rewrite the above?
    > ===========================================================


    Still no comprehende?
    How about these?

    Does packet written CD-R have a directory?
    If so, does the directory get "scrubbed"?
     
    smh, Oct 1, 2004
    #8
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