Re: Has Kline Sphere ever made a useful post?

Discussion in 'MCSD' started by Bob Holmes, Jul 2, 2003.

  1. Bob Holmes

    Bob Holmes Guest

    Hi Jeff,
    I haven't been monitoring this group for very long, but I would say that
    Kline Sphere has posted some very useful comments. I read his response to
    one post and felt he was providing enough good information that I replied to
    the post and asked him for more information, which he kindly supplied, in
    great abundance. I am very grateful for this.
    I have seen, in a number of these groups, some very sarcastic remarks.
    Those receiving the flames usually deserve them. I rarely see a legitimate
    post get flamed by anyone.

    Bob Holmes

    From: "Jeff" <>
    Subject: Has Kilne Sphere ever made a userful post?
    Date: Friday, June 27, 2003 8:24 PM

    I'm curious Kline, why do you post here?
    Bob Holmes, Jul 2, 2003
    #1
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  2. Bob Holmes

    Gevorg Guest

    VERY AGREE with every Kline Sphere post.
    He is right - too much (sorry for being rude, but it is the true)
    uneducated people are trying to get these certificates without any sign
    of understanding that it is about - look at the 75% of the questions -
    they are far from regular PC users level even. So if they are trying to
    get for instance MCSD.NET using braindumps and just memorizing the
    answers - how I (or any employer) can take the MCSD as a confirmation of
    a certain developer level or knowledge? So he is right - Try your toilet
    for braindumps and Money is The Power!
    Go Kline!!

    George
    MCSD, MCAD, MCSD.NET

    --
    Posted via http://dbforums.com
    Gevorg, Jul 3, 2003
    #2
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  3. Bob Holmes

    Dusty Guest

    > VERY AGREE with every Kline Sphere post.
    > He is right - too much (sorry for being rude, but it
    > is the true)
    > uneducated people are trying to get these
    > certificates without any sign
    > of understanding that it is about - look at the 75%
    > of the questions -
    > they are far from regular PC users level even. So if
    > they are trying to


    So ignore them instead of flaming.

    > get for instance MCSD.NET using braindumps and just
    > memorizing the
    > answers - how I (or any employer) can take the MCSD
    > as a confirmation of
    > a certain developer level or knowledge? So he is
    > right -


    I don't believe that anybody can pass exams just by
    using braindumps. It _is_ possible if he or she have
    already some knowledge on the subject. I have
    experience in C/C++, VB, Java, but I don't think I
    could pass for MCSD.Net if didn't buy the MOC books to
    study from. And normally I looked up for braindumps,
    cause I want to see what questions await me.

    > Try your toilet for braindumps and Money is The

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    No offence but that is a stupid thing to say ! I don't
    like the "I have my MCSD and now I've got god by his
    balls, so you all can take your posts and shove it
    where the sun don't shine" attitude !
    I posted a question on exam 316 a week ago, and it
    still seems as a perfectly normal question (and I got a
    perfectly normal reply by Guy Cox - tnx Guy), cause i
    wanted to know whether the MOC books are sufficent
    enough from other people experience. From Kline Sphere
    I only got his frustrated ranting about his toilet
    fascination. As it seems to me he didn't even bother to
    read past the subject, but started flaming at once !
    What is this group all about ? To read someones
    praisings like "I passed for MCSD - I kick butt ", or
    what ?!
    Dusty, Jul 3, 2003
    #3
  4. Bob Holmes

    Gevorg Guest

    Originally posted by Dusty
    > >> look at the 75%
    > >> of the questions -
    > >> they are far from regular PC users level even. So if
    > >> they are trying to

    >
    > > So ignore them instead of flaming.

    >
    > So we did until now, there are exceptions of course...
    >
    > >> get for instance MCSD.NET using braindumps and just
    > >> memorizing the
    > >> answers - how I (or any employer) can take the MCSD
    > >> as a confirmation of
    > >> a certain developer level or knowledge? So he is
    > >> right -

    >
    > >I don't believe that anybody can pass exams just by
    > >using braindumps. It _is_ possible if he or she have
    > >already some knowledge on the subject. I have
    > >experience in C/C++, VB, Java, but I don't think I
    > >could pass for MCSD.Net if didn't buy the MOC books to
    > >study from. And normally I looked up for braindumps,
    > >cause I want to see what questions await me.

    >
    > Well if you have en experiance, questions in fact should be very easy
    > for you, I don't think they are so hard. In my opinion even if your
    > experiance is for at least 6 months (in .NET) and you have read at
    > least 1 book for each exam (not the MCSD/MCAD preparation guids -
    > these stupid superficial cram guids - I mean real good books from Wrox
    > for instance) - you can pass any of this just in twinkling of an eyes
    > - they are so simple and naive - just you have to know the matter and
    > at least have done a couple of lines of real coding.
    >
    > >> Try your toilet for braindumps and Money is The

    > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >
    > >> No offence but that is a stupid thing to say ! I don't
    > >>like the "I have my MCSD and now I've got god by his
    > >>balls, so you all can take your posts and shove it
    > >>where the sun don't shine" attitude !
    > >>I posted a question on exam 316 a week ago, and it
    > >>still seems as a perfectly normal question (and I got a
    > >>perfectly normal reply by Guy Cox - tnx Guy), cause i
    > >>wanted to know whether the MOC books are sufficent
    > >>enough from other people experience. From Kline Sphere
    > >>I only got his frustrated ranting about his toilet
    > >>fascination. As it seems to me he didn't even bother to
    > >>read past the subject, but started flaming at once !
    > >>What is this group all about ? To read someones
    > >>praisings like "I passed for MCSD - I kick butt ", or
    > >>what ?!

    >
    > The answer is above - just as a reminder - from Microsoft's MCSD for
    > .NET requirements page - An MCSD for Microsoft .NET candidate should
    > have two years of experience developing and maintaining solutions and
    > applications
    > http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/mcsd/requirementsdotnet.-
    > asp"]http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/mcsd/requirementsdotnet.a-
    > sp[/url]



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    Gevorg, Jul 3, 2003
    #4
  5. Bob Holmes

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >I have
    >experience in C/C++, VB, Java, but I don't think I
    >could pass for MCSD.Net


    But you could if you were given or paid for the questions (and even
    the answers).
    Kline Sphere, Jul 3, 2003
    #5
  6. Re: Damage of brain dumps

    "Kline Sphere" <T> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >I have
    > >experience in C/C++, VB, Java, but I don't think I
    > >could pass for MCSD.Net

    >
    > But you could if you were given or paid for the questions (and even
    > the answers).


    I tend not to agree that brain dumps are that damaging. The more power to
    anyone that can remember the answers to hundreds of often complicated
    questions. (there is more than one flavor of the same exam). I have done
    repeated passes at sample exams and have discovered that I answered
    questions wrong the second time that I answered right the first time, simple
    because I second-guessed myself. If they are that capable, and can get 75+%
    of the questions that way, they are probably more than capable of getting
    the certification by studying the real way. And they may actually learn a
    lot from the questions anyway, so even though their certification is less
    valuable, I only assume that they will degrade the value of the
    certification a small amount. The way the certification is degraded is that
    employers get employees who can't deliver and people this clever are more
    likely to deliver than not. And as you yourself have pointed out, the
    certification by itself means little. Job experience counts far more. And
    that's what separates a college intern from a seasoned professional.

    In fact to make brain dumps nearly impossible to cheat with, Microsoft would
    have to do very little to its existing base of exams. They could for
    instance change the question to a negative instead of a positive. That way
    if you had memorized the answer without evaluating the question, you would
    surely pick the opposite of the correct answer. A few variations in the way
    the question was asked would make it impossible to cheat by memory alone.

    What concerns me far more is that there are thousands of testing centers. To
    assume, in this same world where corporate executives daily cheat
    shareholders, that every one of those operations has hired honest people
    that will not take money to help a person cheat, is far more of a stretch on
    the value of certification. If this occurs in large numbers, then the value
    of the certification is lowered far more than brain dumps. Sure they will
    probably be discovered soon after they start a new job (assuming the
    employer does not do basic things like subject them to peer question
    sessions like we did at our company). But the problem is that by the time
    they are discovered, the damage to the cert's reputation is done.

    Wray Smallwood
    Wray Smallwood, Jul 3, 2003
    #6
  7. Bob Holmes

    Kline Sphere Guest

    Re: Damage of brain dumps

    >I tend not to agree that brain dumps are that damaging. The more power to
    >anyone that can remember the answers to hundreds of often complicated
    >questions. (there is more than one flavor of the same exam).


    It's the understanding of the questions that is the issue. You can
    train monkeys to pick the right answer, simply from memory.

    The format of the exams allows for a candidate to gain a mark for a
    question they do not know the answer for, simply by guessing and
    selecting the correct answer which is in a list.

    My view is the exam format would need to be as those used in colleges
    and universities, whereby the candidate not only has to give the
    correct answer but has to explain what it is the correct answer, thus
    showing an understanding of the question.
    Kline Sphere, Jul 4, 2003
    #7
  8. Bob Holmes

    taine Guest

    Re: Re: Damage of brain dumps

    My friend bought his certification from a fake mcse certificate site
    called www.compcerts.com and got it the easy way!

    Memorising answers beats fake credentials!

    ---
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    taine------------------------------------------------------------------------
    taine's Profile: http://www.examnotes.net/forums/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=183545
    taine, Jul 7, 2003
    #8
  9. Bob Holmes

    Dusty Guest

    Re: Re: Damage of brain dumps

    > My friend bought his certification from a fake mcse
    certificate site
    > called www.compcerts.com and got it the easy way!
    >
    > Memorising answers beats fake credentials!


    Nice advert :) But sooner or later he will be exposed
    as a fake, and then ....

    .... Svako jutro isti kurac kada otvorim novine ....
    Dusty, Jul 7, 2003
    #9
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