Re: few linux laptop problems...

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by ~misfit~, Jan 9, 2010.

  1. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs starlyte wrote:
    [snip]
    > my problem with this is once she exits out of IE the wineserver cranks
    > up to 100% cpu usage on one core. While it does not adversly affect
    > the laptops usefulness. it does make it hot and at times the machine
    > shuts it self off as its reached 100 degrees (feature, not a problem)


    > off hand i cant remember the exact specs. but its not a little guy
    > intel dual core T7xx series cpu


    I'd be curious to know what manufacurer put a CPU into a laptop that can't
    even be used much over 50% of it's potential without it shutting down due to
    thermal overload and having you think that it's a frickin' FEATURE!. That's
    some damn good marketing. Either that or you've compromisd the cooling by
    letting it get dusty or whatever inside.

    My Intel T7400 (2.13GHz) Core2Duo in this T60 ThinkPad can run both cores
    100% (Prime95 et al) and the die temp doesn't go over 75 degrees. Sure, the
    fan gets loud but the CPU doesn't even get near Intel's trhermal throttling
    range let alone shutdown.
    --
    Shaun.

    "Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
    warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.
    ~misfit~, Jan 9, 2010
    #1
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  2. On Sat, 9 Jan 2010 08:34:00 -0600, "impossible"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    >news:hi90ku$bkl$-september.org...
    >> Somewhere on teh intarwebs starlyte wrote:
    >> [snip]
    >>> my problem with this is once she exits out of IE the wineserver cranks
    >>> up to 100% cpu usage on one core. While it does not adversly affect
    >>> the laptops usefulness. it does make it hot and at times the machine
    >>> shuts it self off as its reached 100 degrees (feature, not a problem)

    >>
    >>> off hand i cant remember the exact specs. but its not a little guy
    >>> intel dual core T7xx series cpu

    >>
    >> I'd be curious to know what manufacurer put a CPU into a laptop that can't
    >> even be used much over 50% of it's potential without it shutting down due
    >> to thermal overload and having you think that it's a frickin' FEATURE!.
    >> That's some damn good marketing. Either that or you've compromisd the
    >> cooling by letting it get dusty or whatever inside.
    >>
    >> My Intel T7400 (2.13GHz) Core2Duo in this T60 ThinkPad can run both cores
    >> 100% (Prime95 et al) and the die temp doesn't go over 75 degrees. Sure,
    >> the fan gets loud but the CPU doesn't even get near Intel's trhermal
    >> throttling range let alone shutdown.
    >> --
    >>

    >
    >It's not unusual for badly designed software (or malware) to hog the cpu and
    >cause the OP's symptoms. And yes, as a defense against those kind of rogue
    >applications, automatic thermal shutdown is a cpu feature.


    You rather seem to have missed misfit's point. Barring dust or
    clogged or damaged venting, a properly designed laptop should be able
    to run its CPU cores at 100% forever without the temperature exceeding
    the limit. If that is not the case, and this laptop was advertised as
    having a CPU that can do xxx GHz and the buyer was not told that it
    would do thermal shutdown if he actually ran it at xxx GHz for a
    while, then the seller was clearly in breach of the FTA and/or CGA and
    the buyer should be getting his money back because it does not work as
    advertised.
    Stephen Worthington, Jan 10, 2010
    #2
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  3. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Stephen Worthington wrote:
    > On Sat, 9 Jan 2010 08:34:00 -0600, "impossible"
    > <> wrote:
    >> "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    >> news:hi90ku$bkl$-september.org...
    >>> Somewhere on teh intarwebs starlyte wrote:
    >>> [snip]
    >>>> my problem with this is once she exits out of IE the wineserver
    >>>> cranks up to 100% cpu usage on one core. While it does not
    >>>> adversly affect the laptops usefulness. it does make it hot and at
    >>>> times the machine shuts it self off as its reached 100 degrees
    >>>> (feature, not a problem)
    >>>
    >>>> off hand i cant remember the exact specs. but its not a little guy
    >>>> intel dual core T7xx series cpu
    >>>
    >>> I'd be curious to know what manufacurer put a CPU into a laptop
    >>> that can't even be used much over 50% of it's potential without it
    >>> shutting down due to thermal overload and having you think that
    >>> it's a frickin' FEATURE!. That's some damn good marketing. Either
    >>> that or you've compromisd the cooling by letting it get dusty or
    >>> whatever inside.
    >>>
    >>> My Intel T7400 (2.13GHz) Core2Duo in this T60 ThinkPad can run both
    >>> cores 100% (Prime95 et al) and the die temp doesn't go over 75
    >>> degrees. Sure, the fan gets loud but the CPU doesn't even get near
    >>> Intel's thermal throttling range let alone shutdown.

    >>
    >> It's not unusual for badly designed software (or malware) to hog the
    >> cpu and cause the OP's symptoms. And yes, as a defense against those
    >> kind of rogue applications, automatic thermal shutdown is a cpu
    >> feature.

    >
    > You rather seem to have missed misfit's point. Barring dust or
    > clogged or damaged venting, a properly designed laptop should be able
    > to run its CPU cores at 100% forever without the temperature exceeding
    > the limit. If that is not the case, and this laptop was advertised as
    > having a CPU that can do xxx GHz and the buyer was not told that it
    > would do thermal shutdown if he actually ran it at xxx GHz for a
    > while, then the seller was clearly in breach of the FTA and/or CGA and
    > the buyer should be getting his money back because it does not work as
    > advertised.


    Thank you Stephen, for seeing my point and trying to explain it to one of
    the errr, bozos in my bozo-bin.

    I want to know what brand and model of laptop it is so I know to avoid it
    like the plague, (unless it's been/being abused and/or not cleaned after use
    in a dusty environment).
    --
    Cheers,
    Shaun.

    "Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
    warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.
    ~misfit~, Jan 11, 2010
    #3
  4. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs starlyte wrote:
    > On Jan 9, 5:28 pm, "~misfit~" <>
    > wrote:
    >> Somewhere on teh intarwebs starlyte wrote:
    >> [snip]
    >>
    >>> my problem with this is once she exits out of IE the wineserver
    >>> cranks up to 100% cpu usage on one core. While it does not adversly
    >>> affect the laptops usefulness. it does make it hot and at times the
    >>> machine shuts it self off as its reached 100 degrees (feature, not
    >>> a problem) off hand i cant remember the exact specs. but its not a
    >>> little guy intel dual core T7xx series cpu

    >>
    >> I'd be curious to know what manufacurer put a CPU into a laptop that
    >> can't even be used much over 50% of it's potential without it
    >> shutting down due to thermal overload and having you think that it's
    >> a frickin' FEATURE!. That's some damn good marketing. Either that or
    >> you've compromisd the cooling by letting it get dusty or whatever
    >> inside.
    >>
    >> My Intel T7400 (2.13GHz) Core2Duo in this T60 ThinkPad can run both
    >> cores 100% (Prime95 et al) and the die temp doesn't go over 75
    >> degrees. Sure, the fan gets loud but the CPU doesn't even get near
    >> Intel's trhermal throttling range let alone shutdown.

    >
    > this is more then likely the way we use the laptop... it often sits on
    > the arm of a couch.. so it does not get alot of air flow. Sitting on a
    > table im sure it will manage its temperatures just fine. but my point
    > really was that wine wont exit cleanly


    Does sitting it on the arm of the couch block a vent? If not it is likely to
    allow *more* air circulation than sitting flat on a table would.

    You didn't answer my question.....
    --
    Shaun.

    "Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
    warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.
    ~misfit~, Jan 11, 2010
    #4
  5. ~misfit~

    Gordon Guest

    On 2010-01-10, Stephen Worthington <34.nz56.remove_numbers> wrote:

    [snip]
    >
    > You rather seem to have missed misfit's point. Barring dust or
    > clogged or damaged venting, a properly designed laptop should be able
    > to run its CPU cores at 100% forever without the temperature exceeding
    > the limit.


    Care to site a Maufacturer's warrantee or other reference. No, I am not
    being whatever.

    How many engines are run at max power 100% of the time they are running?

    The point is did it fail under normal/reasonable use.
    Gordon, Jan 11, 2010
    #5
  6. ~misfit~

    Gordon Guest

    On 2010-01-10, impossible <> wrote:
    >
    > "Stephen Worthington" <34.nz56.remove_numbers> wrote in
    > message news:...
    >> On Sat, 9 Jan 2010 08:34:00 -0600, "impossible"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>"~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:hi90ku$bkl$-september.org...
    >>>> Somewhere on teh intarwebs starlyte wrote:
    >>>> [snip]
    >>>>> my problem with this is once she exits out of IE the wineserver cranks
    >>>>> up to 100% cpu usage on one core. While it does not adversly affect
    >>>>> the laptops usefulness. it does make it hot and at times the machine
    >>>>> shuts it self off as its reached 100 degrees (feature, not a problem)
    >>>>
    >>>>> off hand i cant remember the exact specs. but its not a little guy
    >>>>> intel dual core T7xx series cpu
    >>>>
    >>>> I'd be curious to know what manufacurer put a CPU into a laptop that
    >>>> can't
    >>>> even be used much over 50% of it's potential without it shutting down
    >>>> due
    >>>> to thermal overload and having you think that it's a frickin' FEATURE!.
    >>>> That's some damn good marketing. Either that or you've compromisd the
    >>>> cooling by letting it get dusty or whatever inside.
    >>>>
    >>>> My Intel T7400 (2.13GHz) Core2Duo in this T60 ThinkPad can run both
    >>>> cores
    >>>> 100% (Prime95 et al) and the die temp doesn't go over 75 degrees. Sure,
    >>>> the fan gets loud but the CPU doesn't even get near Intel's trhermal
    >>>> throttling range let alone shutdown.
    >>>> --
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>It's not unusual for badly designed software (or malware) to hog the cpu
    >>>and
    >>>cause the OP's symptoms. And yes, as a defense against those kind of rogue
    >>>applications, automatic thermal shutdown is a cpu feature.

    >>
    >> You rather seem to have missed misfit's point.

    >
    > No, I ignored ~misfit~'s point -- which, as usual, is irrelevant.


    As is this ng to you. Please leave now.
    Gordon, Jan 11, 2010
    #6
  7. ~misfit~

    victor Guest

    Gordon wrote:
    > On 2010-01-10, Stephen Worthington <34.nz56.remove_numbers> wrote:
    >
    > [snip]
    >> You rather seem to have missed misfit's point. Barring dust or
    >> clogged or damaged venting, a properly designed laptop should be able
    >> to run its CPU cores at 100% forever without the temperature exceeding
    >> the limit.

    >
    > Care to site a Maufacturer's warrantee or other reference. No, I am not
    > being whatever.
    >
    > How many engines are run at max power 100% of the time they are running?
    >
    > The point is did it fail under normal/reasonable use.


    100% is normal, its not an engine, its a switching semiconductor device,
    all it has in it is transistors.
    All it needs is its specified thermal dissipation, it should never have
    less.
    To use your defective car analogy that would be like running with no
    coolant.
    victor, Jan 11, 2010
    #7
  8. In message <>, Gordon wrote:

    > How many engines are run at max power 100% of the time they are running?


    The old VW Beetle.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 11, 2010
    #8
  9. In message <99eaf011-b8b2-413d-84fa-
    >, starlyte wrote:

    > there are vents around the sides and also underneath. It also has
    > feet, So sitting on its feet allows the bottom vent actually vent. Its
    > often smothered by the couch


    There may be some GUI tool for checking the CPU temperature, but you should
    be able to find it by looking in the /proc/acpi/thermal_zone directory and
    reading one of the files there.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 11, 2010
    #9
  10. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Gordon wrote:
    > On 2010-01-10, Stephen Worthington
    > <34.nz56.remove_numbers> wrote:
    >
    > [snip]
    >>
    >> You rather seem to have missed misfit's point. Barring dust or
    >> clogged or damaged venting, a properly designed laptop should be able
    >> to run its CPU cores at 100% forever without the temperature
    >> exceeding the limit.

    >
    > Care to site a Maufacturer's warrantee or other reference. No, I am
    > not
    > being whatever.
    >
    > How many engines are run at max power 100% of the time they are
    > running?


    Bad analogy. 2/10.

    > The point is did it fail under normal/reasonable use.


    So using a programme that maxes out both cores for half an hour to transcode
    video (for instance) isn't 'reasonable use'? If it couldn't do that without
    thermal throttling or shutting down I'd sure as hell be taking it back.

    The OP is saying that it's shutting down with just one core maxed out.
    Unacceptable. Then again, he did say that he's using it in a way that is
    just asking for trouble.

    <shrug> I guess some people can afford to buy something, be reckless with it
    and then replace it. If t'were me having thermal shutdown issues using it on
    the arm of the chair I'd put a large [laptop-sized] 'coffee table' book or
    perhaps a piece of MDF under it. Then again, I'm the careful sort who
    doesn't have money to replace abused hardware when it fails.
    --
    Shaun.

    "Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
    warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.
    ~misfit~, Jan 11, 2010
    #10
  11. On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:44:38 -0800 (PST), starlyte
    <> wrote:

    >On Jan 11, 1:39 pm, "~misfit~" <>
    >wrote:
    >> Somewhere on teh intarwebs starlyte wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > On Jan 9, 5:28 pm, "~misfit~" <>
    >> > wrote:
    >> >> Somewhere on teh intarwebs starlyte wrote:
    >> >> [snip]

    >>
    >> >>> my problem with this is once she exits out of IE the wineserver
    >> >>> cranks up to 100% cpu usage on one core. While it does not adversly
    >> >>> affect the laptops usefulness. it does make it hot and at times the
    >> >>> machine shuts it self off as its reached 100 degrees (feature, not
    >> >>> a problem) off hand i cant remember the exact specs. but its not a
    >> >>> little guy intel dual core T7xx series cpu

    >>
    >> >> I'd be curious to know what manufacurer put a CPU into a laptop that
    >> >> can't even be used much over 50% of it's potential without it
    >> >> shutting down due to thermal overload and having you think that it's
    >> >> a frickin' FEATURE!. That's some damn good marketing. Either that or
    >> >> you've compromisd the cooling by letting it get dusty or whatever
    >> >> inside.

    >>
    >> >> My Intel T7400 (2.13GHz) Core2Duo in this T60 ThinkPad can run both
    >> >> cores 100% (Prime95 et al) and the die temp doesn't go over 75
    >> >> degrees. Sure, the fan gets loud but the CPU doesn't even get near
    >> >> Intel's trhermal throttling range let alone shutdown.

    >>
    >> > this is more then likely the way we use the laptop... it often sits on
    >> > the arm of a couch.. so it does not get alot of air flow. Sitting on a
    >> > table im sure it will manage its temperatures just fine. but my point
    >> > really was that wine wont exit cleanly

    >>
    >> Does sitting it on the arm of the couch block a vent? If not it is likely to
    >> allow *more* air circulation than sitting flat on a table would.
    >>
    >> You didn't answer my question.....
    >> --
    >> Shaun.
    >>
    >> "Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
    >> warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.

    >
    >there are vents around the sides and also underneath. It also has
    >feet, So sitting on its feet allows the bottom vent actually vent. Its
    >often smothered by the couch
    >i dont believe there is any fault of the hardware... so i dont think i
    >need to name and shame the brand


    OK, so you are blocking the airflow. That is living very dangerously.
    Sure, it has thermal shutdown capability, but relying on that too
    often is very likely to get you a burned out CPU. Read the fine print
    and you will find that they do not guarantee that the thermal shutdown
    will save the CPU. All it takes is just one junction to go over
    temperature for long enough and the chip is junk. You really need to
    consider using it differently. I have a piece of particle board under
    mine when I use it on top of my bed.
    Stephen Worthington, Jan 11, 2010
    #11
  12. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Stephen Worthington wrote:
    > On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:44:38 -0800 (PST), starlyte
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Jan 11, 1:39 pm, "~misfit~" <>
    >> wrote:
    >>> Somewhere on teh intarwebs starlyte wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> On Jan 9, 5:28 pm, "~misfit~" <>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>> Somewhere on teh intarwebs starlyte wrote:
    >>>>> [snip]
    >>>
    >>>>>> my problem with this is once she exits out of IE the wineserver
    >>>>>> cranks up to 100% cpu usage on one core. While it does not
    >>>>>> adversly affect the laptops usefulness. it does make it hot and
    >>>>>> at times the machine shuts it self off as its reached 100
    >>>>>> degrees (feature, not a problem) off hand i cant remember the
    >>>>>> exact specs. but its not a little guy intel dual core T7xx
    >>>>>> series cpu
    >>>
    >>>>> I'd be curious to know what manufacurer put a CPU into a laptop
    >>>>> that can't even be used much over 50% of it's potential without it
    >>>>> shutting down due to thermal overload and having you think that
    >>>>> it's a frickin' FEATURE!. That's some damn good marketing. Either
    >>>>> that or you've compromisd the cooling by letting it get dusty or
    >>>>> whatever inside.
    >>>
    >>>>> My Intel T7400 (2.13GHz) Core2Duo in this T60 ThinkPad can run
    >>>>> both cores 100% (Prime95 et al) and the die temp doesn't go over
    >>>>> 75 degrees. Sure, the fan gets loud but the CPU doesn't even get
    >>>>> near Intel's trhermal throttling range let alone shutdown.
    >>>
    >>>> this is more then likely the way we use the laptop... it often
    >>>> sits on the arm of a couch.. so it does not get alot of air flow.
    >>>> Sitting on a table im sure it will manage its temperatures just
    >>>> fine. but my point really was that wine wont exit cleanly
    >>>
    >>> Does sitting it on the arm of the couch block a vent? If not it is
    >>> likely to allow *more* air circulation than sitting flat on a table
    >>> would.
    >>>
    >>> You didn't answer my question.....
    >>> --
    >>> Shaun.
    >>>
    >>> "Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him
    >>> and he's warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.

    >>
    >> there are vents around the sides and also underneath. It also has
    >> feet, So sitting on its feet allows the bottom vent actually vent.
    >> Its often smothered by the couch
    >> i dont believe there is any fault of the hardware... so i dont think
    >> i need to name and shame the brand

    >
    > OK, so you are blocking the airflow. That is living very dangerously.
    > Sure, it has thermal shutdown capability, but relying on that too
    > often is very likely to get you a burned out CPU. Read the fine print
    > and you will find that they do not guarantee that the thermal shutdown
    > will save the CPU. All it takes is just one junction to go over
    > temperature for long enough and the chip is junk.


    Yup. Not to mention the extra heat that the HDD and battery have to put up
    with. This really is a recipe for accelerated aging at the best,
    catastrophic failure at the worst.

    > You really need to
    > consider using it differently. I have a piece of particle board under
    > mine when I use it on top of my bed.


    I agree. I have a piece of MDF in my laptop bag in case I need it to put
    under the laptop when it's away from the desk.
    --
    Cheers,
    Shaun.

    "Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
    warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.
    ~misfit~, Jan 11, 2010
    #12
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