Re: DVD Menus and Players (Rant Warning)

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Walter Traprock, Dec 17, 2005.

  1. "steve" <> wrote:

    > DVD Players:
    >
    > 1. Regions: Region codes are usually nothing more than a numerical flag
    > (there can be more to it), and all DVD players can read the content. But
    > the players are instructed to honor only 1 region. Why arent more DVD
    > players available that play all regions? I had to buy mine on line, because
    > the local shops dont carry any all region players. And it looks as if I
    > paid the premium for someone to modify or simply re-program a Player that is
    > otherwise region restricted. My computer DVD drive reads and plays all
    > region DVDs, BTW, with no special prodding. Are DVD players govt regulated
    > in this regard?


    Are you SURE your computer dvd player lets you do that? I guess it only
    lets you change the region five or so times and then freezes permanently
    to the last region you changed it to.

    And it's not gov't regulated, yet, but it's licensing restrictions
    (private law) that seems to forbid easy availability of decent dvd
    players, that are not region restricted or doesn't have the ability to
    force the user warnings, ads, etc.

    > 2. Since menus are so annoying, Id like a player that gives me an option to
    > see a coherent and informational menu despite the DVDs intended
    > presentation...something like a tree control with program information at
    > each node would be nice. That couldnt be so difficult to provide, I would
    > think. Just read and process the menu selections into something more user
    > friendly.


    That sounds so incredibly useful, you can be sure the DVD Consortium
    wants it to remain illegal.

    > It seems to me there's a marketing opportunity for someone to sell players
    > that avoid these frustrations. I'll pay a premium for control and
    > convenience.


    Me too. That means a dvd player, purchasable from a store, in person,
    in the USA, all ready to go without hacking, copying, etc., in other
    words, not against the law, even if it is just private law.
    Walter Traprock, Dec 17, 2005
    #1
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  2. Walter Traprock

    SpammersDie Guest

    >5. DVD in control: Man, does it piss me off when I cant bypass a warning or
    >something. It's my player and my DVD, so why cant I skip the fucking FBI
    >warning?


    And don't forget that despite the fact that DVD's contain region codes
    precisely to prevent them being played in more than one locale, you are
    forced to sit through the same unskippable warning in English, French,
    German, Swahili, Eskimo and Huttese every fucking time the disk is inserted.

    And of course, if you have the foresight to preload the disk and let it get
    through its pre-menu spiel while you pat down the couch, turn out the
    lights, empty the piss-tank, get the popcorn out of the microwave, take the
    phone off the hook, put up the "no salesman" sign and activate the sunken
    colony under your front doormat...

    ....you come back to find out the insidious DVD creators foresaw what you
    would do and programmed the DVD so it would autostart the movie without you.

    The legalistic bludgeoning aside, somebody needs to take the whole lot of
    DVD menu designers, tie them up and hit them over the head until they learn
    a simple principle: The purpose of a menu is to get to the feature I want.
    Not to waste my time with flying text, silly animations, movie spoilers,
    repetitive soundtracks.
    SpammersDie, Dec 17, 2005
    #2
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  3. "SpammersDie" <> wrote:

    >The legalistic bludgeoning aside, somebody needs to take the whole lot of
    >DVD menu designers, tie them up and hit them over the head until they learn
    >a simple principle: The purpose of a menu is to get to the feature I want.
    >Not to waste my time with flying text, silly animations, movie spoilers,
    >repetitive soundtracks.


    Amen to that. Whoever invented the noisy animated menu should be shot.
    Imagine if, when you wanted to use your computer, you had to put up with
    stupid animations like paper clips waving about, or dogs looking through
    books...
    Kimba W. Lion, Dec 17, 2005
    #3
  4. Walter Traprock

    Justin Guest

    Kimba W Lion wrote on [Sat, 17 Dec 2005 15:20:53 -0500]:
    > "SpammersDie" <> wrote:
    >
    >>The legalistic bludgeoning aside, somebody needs to take the whole lot of
    >>DVD menu designers, tie them up and hit them over the head until they learn
    >>a simple principle: The purpose of a menu is to get to the feature I want.
    >>Not to waste my time with flying text, silly animations, movie spoilers,
    >>repetitive soundtracks.

    >
    > Amen to that. Whoever invented the noisy animated menu should be shot.
    > Imagine if, when you wanted to use your computer, you had to put up with
    > stupid animations like paper clips waving about, or dogs looking through
    > books...


    A DVD menu should also NEVER give away spoilers unless you are looking
    for spoilers.
    Justin, Dec 17, 2005
    #4
  5. Walter Traprock

    Goro Guest

    SpammersDie wrote:
    *snip*
    > The legalistic bludgeoning aside, somebody needs to take the whole lot of
    > DVD menu designers, tie them up and hit them over the head until they learn
    > a simple principle: The purpose of a menu is to get to the feature I want.
    > Not to waste my time with flying text, silly animations, movie spoilers,
    > repetitive soundtracks.


    yes. yes. yes.

    I HATE animating menus. Why the hell do i want to have a 25sec
    animation BEFORE the frickin' menu shows up, followed by a 25sec
    animation AFTER I hit "PLAY FEATURE"/??!!?

    Then there's the MI5 menu. Gwad. I know the menu designers must've
    been oh-so-pleased with themselves for making such a "clever" menu but
    gwad, it sucked. I love the show. Hate the dvds. S3 UK dvd had
    normal menus...

    I've been buying alot of Japanese R2 DVDs. THey do have a full menu,
    BUT when you start the dvd, it plays the "No copy" Warning and then it
    goes directly to the feature. You wnat to go to the menu? hit MENU.
    How nice is that?!

    The OPPO dvd player has a nice feature: when it's loading the dvd, as
    soon as it changes from "Loading" to "DVD-Video", if you hit MENU, it
    skips all the forced trailers, fbi warnings, etc, and jumps right to
    the MENU.

    And that brings me to PUOPs. Gwad, I would pay an extra $100 for a DVD
    Player to ignore PUOPs...

    -goro-
    Goro, Dec 17, 2005
    #5
  6. Walter Traprock

    Goro Guest

    Kimba W. Lion wrote:
    > "SpammersDie" <> wrote:
    >
    > >The legalistic bludgeoning aside, somebody needs to take the whole lot of
    > >DVD menu designers, tie them up and hit them over the head until they learn
    > >a simple principle: The purpose of a menu is to get to the feature I want.
    > >Not to waste my time with flying text, silly animations, movie spoilers,
    > >repetitive soundtracks.

    >
    > Amen to that. Whoever invented the noisy animated menu should be shot.
    > Imagine if, when you wanted to use your computer, you had to put up with
    > stupid animations like paper clips waving about, or dogs looking through
    > books...


    You mean like that stupid Office Help Assistant?

    -goro-
    Goro, Dec 17, 2005
    #6
  7. Walter Traprock

    Steve Guest

    Kimba W. Lion <> wrote:
    >>The legalistic bludgeoning aside, somebody needs to take the whole lot of
    >>DVD menu designers, tie them up and hit them over the head until they learn
    >>a simple principle: The purpose of a menu is to get to the feature I want.
    >>Not to waste my time with flying text, silly animations, movie spoilers,
    >>repetitive soundtracks.

    >
    >Amen to that. Whoever invented the noisy animated menu should be shot.
    >Imagine if, when you wanted to use your computer, you had to put up with
    >stupid animations like paper clips waving about, or dogs looking through
    >books...


    Yup, same principle as web design - should be simple, obvious, easy to
    navigate. And ideally it should be consistent from one DVD to the
    next...


    --

    To avoid situations in which you might make mistakes
    may be the biggest mistake of all.

    ....Peter McWilliams
    Steve, Dec 18, 2005
    #7
  8. Walter Traprock

    Goro Guest

    Steve wrote:
    > Kimba W. Lion <> wrote:
    > >>The legalistic bludgeoning aside, somebody needs to take the whole lot of
    > >>DVD menu designers, tie them up and hit them over the head until they learn
    > >>a simple principle: The purpose of a menu is to get to the feature I want.
    > >>Not to waste my time with flying text, silly animations, movie spoilers,
    > >>repetitive soundtracks.

    > >
    > >Amen to that. Whoever invented the noisy animated menu should be shot.
    > >Imagine if, when you wanted to use your computer, you had to put up with
    > >stupid animations like paper clips waving about, or dogs looking through
    > >books...

    >
    > Yup, same principle as web design - should be simple, obvious, easy to
    > navigate. And ideally it should be consistent from one DVD to the
    > next...


    Yes. They need banner ads, pop ups ads, mouse trails, <BLINK>, ... :)

    -goro-
    Goro, Dec 18, 2005
    #8
  9. Steve <> wrote:

    >Yup, same principle as web design - should be simple, obvious, easy to
    >navigate. And ideally it should be consistent from one DVD to the
    >next...


    THAT must be the problem--the video companies got their web designers to do
    the DVD menus.
    Kimba W. Lion, Dec 18, 2005
    #9
  10. Walter Traprock

    SpammersDie Guest

    "Justin" <> wrote in message
    news:2go.com...
    > Kimba W Lion wrote on [Sat, 17 Dec 2005 15:20:53 -0500]:
    >> "SpammersDie" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>The legalistic bludgeoning aside, somebody needs to take the whole lot of
    >>>DVD menu designers, tie them up and hit them over the head until they
    >>>learn
    >>>a simple principle: The purpose of a menu is to get to the feature I
    >>>want.
    >>>Not to waste my time with flying text, silly animations, movie spoilers,
    >>>repetitive soundtracks.

    >>
    >> Amen to that. Whoever invented the noisy animated menu should be shot.
    >> Imagine if, when you wanted to use your computer, you had to put up with
    >> stupid animations like paper clips waving about, or dogs looking through
    >> books...

    >
    > A DVD menu should also NEVER give away spoilers unless you are looking
    > for spoilers.


    And call me anal but I consider a trailer a spoiler for certain movies. I
    avoided theaters for months before any of the SW movies specifically to
    avoid seeing the trailers (and I'm damn glad too because each of them had
    scenes that wouldn't have had anywhere near the same impact for me if I'd
    seen the trailers.)

    So the same comment goes for pre-menu trailers (in addition to the other
    valid objections against them.)
    SpammersDie, Dec 18, 2005
    #10
  11. Walter Traprock

    Mike Berger Guest

    Places that sell DVD's might find that their suppliers will no longer
    deal with them if they sell multi-region DVD players. However, it is
    trivial to convert some readily available off-the-shelf models.


    > "steve" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>DVD Players:
    >>
    >>1. Regions: Region codes are usually nothing more than a numerical flag
    >>(there can be more to it), and all DVD players can read the content. But
    >>the players are instructed to honor only 1 region. Why arent more DVD
    >>players available that play all regions? I had to buy mine on line, because
    >>the local shops dont carry any all region players. And it looks as if I
    >>paid the premium for someone to modify or simply re-program a Player that is
    >>otherwise region restricted. My computer DVD drive reads and plays all
    >>region DVDs, BTW, with no special prodding. Are DVD players govt regulated
    >>in this regard?
    Mike Berger, Dec 19, 2005
    #11
  12. Walter Traprock

    GMAN Guest

    In article <2go.com>, Justin <> wrote:
    >Kimba W Lion wrote on [Sat, 17 Dec 2005 15:20:53 -0500]:
    >> "SpammersDie" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>The legalistic bludgeoning aside, somebody needs to take the whole lot of
    >>>DVD menu designers, tie them up and hit them over the head until they learn
    >>>a simple principle: The purpose of a menu is to get to the feature I want.
    >>>Not to waste my time with flying text, silly animations, movie spoilers,
    >>>repetitive soundtracks.

    >>
    >> Amen to that. Whoever invented the noisy animated menu should be shot.
    >> Imagine if, when you wanted to use your computer, you had to put up with
    >> stupid animations like paper clips waving about, or dogs looking through
    >> books...

    >
    >A DVD menu should also NEVER give away spoilers unless you are looking
    >for spoilers.

    Whats worse is when the dvd cover art gives away the key point to the whole
    film, Look at the original Planet of the Apes cover artpictured here.

    http://www.bestprices.com/cgi-bin/vlink/024543001096IE?source=froogle
    GMAN, Dec 24, 2005
    #12
  13. Walter Traprock

    GMAN Guest

    In article <do6nsl$ltg$>, Mike Berger <> wrote:
    >Places that sell DVD's might find that their suppliers will no longer
    >deal with them if they sell multi-region DVD players. However, it is
    >trivial to convert some readily available off-the-shelf models.
    >
    >

    As in most of the ones sold at walmart and made in asia!!!


    >> "steve" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>DVD Players:
    >>>
    >>>1. Regions: Region codes are usually nothing more than a numerical flag
    >>>(there can be more to it), and all DVD players can read the content. But
    >>>the players are instructed to honor only 1 region. Why arent more DVD
    >>>players available that play all regions? I had to buy mine on line, because
    >>>the local shops dont carry any all region players. And it looks as if I
    >>>paid the premium for someone to modify or simply re-program a Player that is
    >>>otherwise region restricted. My computer DVD drive reads and plays all
    >>>region DVDs, BTW, with no special prodding. Are DVD players govt regulated
    >>>in this regard?
    GMAN, Dec 24, 2005
    #13
  14. Walter Traprock

    Guest

    All of this is the reason I prefer VHS tapes.
    I just want to stick the thing in the machine and press PLAY.

    I dont want menus.
    I dont care about regions nor do I want to have to study all of that.
    I ESPECIALLY do NOT want alternative endings, the movie should be the
    ....way it was intended ONLY.
    I dont care to see behind the scenes and all that other junk they put
    .... on a DVD
    I dont want to have to select standard or wide screen
    I dont want commercials (I paid for the movie)
    I dont want MP3 music on my DVDs
    I just want to watch the frikkin movie without having to push buttons
    ,,, and make selections.



    On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 18:47:14 -0800, Walter Traprock
    <> wrote:

    >"steve" <> wrote:
    >
    >> DVD Players:
    >>
    >> 1. Regions: Region codes are usually nothing more than a numerical flag
    >> (there can be more to it), and all DVD players can read the content. But
    >> the players are instructed to honor only 1 region. Why arent more DVD
    >> players available that play all regions? I had to buy mine on line, because
    >> the local shops dont carry any all region players. And it looks as if I
    >> paid the premium for someone to modify or simply re-program a Player that is
    >> otherwise region restricted. My computer DVD drive reads and plays all
    >> region DVDs, BTW, with no special prodding. Are DVD players govt regulated
    >> in this regard?

    >
    >Are you SURE your computer dvd player lets you do that? I guess it only
    >lets you change the region five or so times and then freezes permanently
    >to the last region you changed it to.
    >
    >And it's not gov't regulated, yet, but it's licensing restrictions
    >(private law) that seems to forbid easy availability of decent dvd
    >players, that are not region restricted or doesn't have the ability to
    >force the user warnings, ads, etc.
    >
    >> 2. Since menus are so annoying, Id like a player that gives me an option to
    >> see a coherent and informational menu despite the DVDs intended
    >> presentation...something like a tree control with program information at
    >> each node would be nice. That couldnt be so difficult to provide, I would
    >> think. Just read and process the menu selections into something more user
    >> friendly.

    >
    >That sounds so incredibly useful, you can be sure the DVD Consortium
    >wants it to remain illegal.
    >
    >> It seems to me there's a marketing opportunity for someone to sell players
    >> that avoid these frustrations. I'll pay a premium for control and
    >> convenience.

    >
    >Me too. That means a dvd player, purchasable from a store, in person,
    >in the USA, all ready to go without hacking, copying, etc., in other
    >words, not against the law, even if it is just private law.
    , Dec 24, 2005
    #14
  15. Walter Traprock

    Bob Guest

    On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 07:08:54 GMT, (GMAN) wrote:

    >>Places that sell DVD's might find that their suppliers will no longer
    >>deal with them if they sell multi-region DVD players. However, it is
    >>trivial to convert some readily available off-the-shelf models.


    >As in most of the ones sold at walmart and made in asia!!!


    More adolescent blowing smoke.

    No one has the codes for the ILI DVDR05MU1, which is W-M's most
    popular unit.


    --

    "There are two kinds of truth, small truth and great truth. You
    can recognize a small truth because its opposite is a falsehood.
    The opposite of a great truth is another truth."
    -- Niels Bohr
    Bob, Dec 24, 2005
    #15
  16. Walter Traprock

    Bob Guest

    On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 02:57:53 -0600, wrote:

    >All of this is the reason I prefer VHS tapes.
    >I just want to stick the thing in the machine and press PLAY.
    >
    >I dont want menus.
    >I dont care about regions nor do I want to have to study all of that.
    >I ESPECIALLY do NOT want alternative endings, the movie should be the
    >...way it was intended ONLY.
    >I dont care to see behind the scenes and all that other junk they put
    >... on a DVD
    >I dont want to have to select standard or wide screen
    >I dont want commercials (I paid for the movie)
    >I dont want MP3 music on my DVDs
    >I just want to watch the frikkin movie without having to push buttons
    >,,, and make selections.


    Use DVD Shrink to remove all that stuff. You will end up with just the
    main title.

    You will get higher quality, the ability to pause indefinitely and
    fast forward/backward a lot faster. You will also be able to GoTo any
    time in the movie plus navigate by Chapter.

    Quality and ease of navigation are the two main reasons I like DVD. If
    there are multiple episodes I like the Menu feature.

    --

    "There are two kinds of truth, small truth and great truth. You
    can recognize a small truth because its opposite is a falsehood.
    The opposite of a great truth is another truth."
    -- Niels Bohr
    Bob, Dec 24, 2005
    #16
  17. Walter Traprock

    The Real Bev Guest

    GMAN wrote:

    > Justin <> wrote:
    >>Kimba W Lion wrote:
    >>> "SpammersDie" <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>The legalistic bludgeoning aside, somebody needs to take the whole lot of
    >>>>DVD menu designers, tie them up and hit them over the head until they learn
    >>>>a simple principle: The purpose of a menu is to get to the feature I want.
    >>>>Not to waste my time with flying text, silly animations, movie spoilers,
    >>>>repetitive soundtracks.
    >>>
    >>> Amen to that. Whoever invented the noisy animated menu should be shot.


    Having to figure out where you are (cryptic selection indicator) by unfocusing
    your eyes and seeing what moves is a pain. The people who design these things
    are the ones who design websites based on flash. Hangin's goo good fer 'em.

    >>> Imagine if, when you wanted to use your computer, you had to put up with
    >>> stupid animations like paper clips waving about, or dogs looking through
    >>> books...


    :) Oh, the horror. How could any sentient person accept such stuff?

    >>A DVD menu should also NEVER give away spoilers unless you are looking
    >>for spoilers.

    >
    > Whats worse is when the dvd cover art gives away the key point to the whole
    > film, Look at the original Planet of the Apes cover artpictured here.
    >
    > http://www.bestprices.com/cgi-bin/vlink/024543001096IE?source=froogle


    I'm pretty sure that by the time the DVD came out nearly everybody knew the
    ending already. Does seem like a real annoyance for new movies, though.

    --
    Cheers, Bev
    ====================================================================
    Paranoid schizophrenics outnumber their enemies at least two to one.
    The Real Bev, Dec 24, 2005
    #17
  18. Walter Traprock

    Sean O'Hara Guest

    In the Year of the Cock, the Great and Powerful
    declared:
    > All of this is the reason I prefer VHS tapes. I just want to
    > stick the thing in the machine and press PLAY.
    >
    > I dont want menus. I dont care about regions nor do I want to
    > have to study all of that. I ESPECIALLY do NOT want alternative
    > endings, the movie should be the ...way it was intended ONLY. I
    > dont care to see behind the scenes and all that other junk they
    > put ... on a DVD I dont want to have to select standard or wide
    > screen I dont want commercials (I paid for the movie) I dont want
    > MP3 music on my DVDs I just want to watch the frikkin movie
    > without having to push buttons ,,, and make selections.
    >


    But apparently you do want a picture that's no better than what you
    get over the air or on analog cable; films that are almost always
    presented in pan'n'scan; a clunky storage medium that takes up twice
    as much room as a standard DVD case, and which requires an entire
    shelf for one season of a TV show; to have to rewind the tape after
    every viewing; to not be able to skip to a specific point in a film.

    Yeah, VHS is superior to DVD!

    --
    Sean O'Hara | http://diogenes-sinope.blogspot.com
    Robot General: Funny, isn't it? The human was impervious to our most
    powerful magnetic fields, yet in the end, he succumbed to a harmless
    sharpened stick.
    -Futurama
    Sean O'Hara, Dec 24, 2005
    #18
  19. On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 02:57:53 -0600, wrote:

    I agree with all of your wants (for simple playing of movies) except:

    >I dont care to see behind the scenes and all that other junk they put
    >... on a DVD


    I do - just make me press MENU to get to the menu - otherwise play the
    movie.

    >I dont want to have to select standard or wide screen


    Standard *is* wide screen!

    I only select once per player. This way I know that the movie will
    be played in wide screen (or in my case, letterboxed). I don't have
    to search to find a version of the movie as filmed.
    Howard Brazee, Dec 24, 2005
    #19
  20. (Bob) wrote:

    > >All of this is the reason I prefer VHS tapes.
    > >I just want to stick the thing in the machine and press PLAY.
    > >
    > >I dont want menus.


    menus typically stink, I heard laserdisc had no menus either.
    Unnecessary.

    Still, it would be better to have a DVD Player that actually co-operates
    with the user, if such a machine actually existed, which they don't
    appear to.

    > >I dont care about regions nor do I want to have to study all of that.
    > >I ESPECIALLY do NOT want alternative endings, the movie should be the
    > >...way it was intended ONLY.
    > >I dont care to see behind the scenes and all that other junk they put
    > >... on a DVD
    > >I dont want to have to select standard or wide screen
    > >I dont want commercials (I paid for the movie)
    > >I dont want MP3 music on my DVDs
    > >I just want to watch the frikkin movie without having to push buttons
    > >,,, and make selections.

    >
    > Use DVD Shrink to remove all that stuff. You will end up with just the
    > main title.
    >
    > You will get higher quality, the ability to pause indefinitely and
    > fast forward/backward a lot faster. You will also be able to GoTo any
    > time in the movie plus navigate by Chapter.
    >
    > Quality and ease of navigation are the two main reasons I like DVD. If
    > there are multiple episodes I like the Menu feature.


    DVD Shrink is

    1) illegal,

    2) windows only,

    3) and highly inconvenient to do in advance of every DVD you want to
    play, or so i figure.
    Walter Traprock, Dec 25, 2005
    #20
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