RE: DVD backup legality question

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by LesV, Mar 3, 2005.

  1. LesV

    LesV Guest

    Is it legal to back up a DVD title you own, and on what basis?

    Example:

    I have a considerable collection of DVDs that I play often. I take real
    good care of them, always returning them to their sleeve after playing, etc
    However, a friend of mine recently had a fire and lost his whole collection
    and I realized the same thing could happen to me. That would be a major
    bummer!

    I'd like to make backups to insure against loss or destruction of the
    original material.
    The only way to protect it would be to store it away from the original
    DVD.(i.e. not in my house or car). Safety deposit boxes would be way to
    expensive.

    Can I make copies for someone else to hold for me? In exchange, in lieu of
    a expensive fee or monthly storage charges, I would be willing to hold their
    backup copies on a one disk to one disk basis with the understanding that I
    can't view theirs, and they can't view mine.

    Sort of a mutual protection to mutual protection (MP2MP) {LOL}network, club,
    or organization.

    What are the legal issues involved?
     
    LesV, Mar 3, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. LesV

    Justin Guest

    LesV wrote on [Thu, 03 Mar 2005 16:56:36 GMT]:
    > Is it legal to back up a DVD title you own, and on what basis?


    Depends on what country you live in. In the US, no. It is not legal to
    copy a DVD.

    > I have a considerable collection of DVDs that I play often. I take real
    > good care of them, always returning them to their sleeve after playing, etc
    > However, a friend of mine recently had a fire and lost his whole collection
    > and I realized the same thing could happen to me. That would be a major
    > bummer!


    Apparently you haven't heard of insurance?
     
    Justin, Mar 3, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. LesV

    Rob Guest

    "LesV" <> wrote in message
    news:8lHVd.317957$...
    > Is it legal to back up a DVD title you own, and on what basis?
    >
    > Example:
    >
    > I have a considerable collection of DVDs that I play often. I take real
    > good care of them, always returning them to their sleeve after playing,

    etc
    > However, a friend of mine recently had a fire and lost his whole

    collection
    > and I realized the same thing could happen to me. That would be a major
    > bummer!
    >
    > I'd like to make backups to insure against loss or destruction of the
    > original material.
    > The only way to protect it would be to store it away from the original
    > DVD.(i.e. not in my house or car). Safety deposit boxes would be way to
    > expensive.
    >
    > Can I make copies for someone else to hold for me? In exchange, in lieu

    of
    > a expensive fee or monthly storage charges, I would be willing to hold

    their
    > backup copies on a one disk to one disk basis with the understanding that

    I
    > can't view theirs, and they can't view mine.
    >
    > Sort of a mutual protection to mutual protection (MP2MP) {LOL}network,

    club,
    > or organization.
    >
    > What are the legal issues involved?
    >
    >


    In simple terms, yes, you are allowed to make a backup of your own DVD.
    However, legally you cannot defeat or override any code that defeats the
    copy protection scheme placed on the original DVD by the Copyright Owner.
    This is the Catch 22. It's like pot - you can smoke it but you're not
    allowed to have it!

    Also, if you distribute your backup copy (ie: give it to someone else), the
    original must go with it and vice versa. This suggests that your backup must
    be kept with the original (which kinda defeats the purpose of having a
    backup).

    You should read the DMC Act for 'clarification'. Good luck :)
     
    Rob, Mar 3, 2005
    #3
  4. LesV

    Biz Guest

    Homeowner's insurance.......

    "LesV" <> wrote in message
    news:8lHVd.317957$...
    > Is it legal to back up a DVD title you own, and on what basis?
    >
    > Example:
    >
    > I have a considerable collection of DVDs that I play often. I take real
    > good care of them, always returning them to their sleeve after playing,

    etc
    > However, a friend of mine recently had a fire and lost his whole

    collection
    > and I realized the same thing could happen to me. That would be a major
    > bummer!
    >
    > I'd like to make backups to insure against loss or destruction of the
    > original material.
    > The only way to protect it would be to store it away from the original
    > DVD.(i.e. not in my house or car). Safety deposit boxes would be way to
    > expensive.
    >
    > Can I make copies for someone else to hold for me? In exchange, in lieu

    of
    > a expensive fee or monthly storage charges, I would be willing to hold

    their
    > backup copies on a one disk to one disk basis with the understanding that

    I
    > can't view theirs, and they can't view mine.
    >
    > Sort of a mutual protection to mutual protection (MP2MP) {LOL}network,

    club,
    > or organization.
    >
    > What are the legal issues involved?
    >
    >
     
    Biz, Mar 3, 2005
    #4
  5. LesV

    LesV Guest

    The disc belongs to the purchaser. The content belongs to the studio.

    Are you not allowed to protect your property from loss or destruction?

    That's like saying you can back up the data on your computer but you have to
    leave it on your computer.

    How stupid is that?
    "Rob" <> wrote in message
    news:qLHVd.26917$...
    > "LesV" <> wrote in message
    > news:8lHVd.317957$...
    > > Is it legal to back up a DVD title you own, and on what basis?
    > >
    > > Example:
    > >
    > > I have a considerable collection of DVDs that I play often. I take real
    > > good care of them, always returning them to their sleeve after playing,

    > etc
    > > However, a friend of mine recently had a fire and lost his whole

    > collection
    > > and I realized the same thing could happen to me. That would be a major
    > > bummer!
    > >
    > > I'd like to make backups to insure against loss or destruction of the
    > > original material.
    > > The only way to protect it would be to store it away from the original
    > > DVD.(i.e. not in my house or car). Safety deposit boxes would be way to
    > > expensive.
    > >
    > > Can I make copies for someone else to hold for me? In exchange, in lieu

    > of
    > > a expensive fee or monthly storage charges, I would be willing to hold

    > their
    > > backup copies on a one disk to one disk basis with the understanding

    that
    > I
    > > can't view theirs, and they can't view mine.
    > >
    > > Sort of a mutual protection to mutual protection (MP2MP) {LOL}network,

    > club,
    > > or organization.
    > >
    > > What are the legal issues involved?
    > >
    > >

    >
    > In simple terms, yes, you are allowed to make a backup of your own DVD.
    > However, legally you cannot defeat or override any code that defeats the
    > copy protection scheme placed on the original DVD by the Copyright Owner.
    > This is the Catch 22. It's like pot - you can smoke it but you're not
    > allowed to have it!
    >
    > Also, if you distribute your backup copy (ie: give it to someone else),

    the
    > original must go with it and vice versa. This suggests that your backup

    must
    > be kept with the original (which kinda defeats the purpose of having a
    > backup).
    >
    > You should read the DMC Act for 'clarification'. Good luck :)
    >
    >
     
    LesV, Mar 3, 2005
    #5
  6. LesV

    LesV Guest

    Touché

    What if I'm walking down the street with the DVD's in a briefcase and
    somebody steals it?

    "Biz" <> wrote in message
    news:mNHVd.318088$...
    > Homeowner's insurance.......
    >
     
    LesV, Mar 3, 2005
    #6
  7. LesV

    LesV Guest

    I have and I am.

    I think you might be missing the point of the discussion.

    I had hoped this would be discussion of property rights, as defined by the
    law.


    > Apparently you haven't heard of insurance?
    >
     
    LesV, Mar 3, 2005
    #7
  8. LesV

    LesV Guest

    For the sake of argument, lets assume the DVDs to be copyrighted, but not
    copy protected. No technology will be circumvented in order to create a
    copy.

    "LesV" <> wrote in message
    news:8lHVd.317957$...
    > Is it legal to back up a DVD title you own, and on what basis?
    >
    > Example:
    >
    > I have a considerable collection of DVDs that I play often. I take real
    > good care of them, always returning them to their sleeve after playing,

    etc
    > However, a friend of mine recently had a fire and lost his whole

    collection
    > and I realized the same thing could happen to me. That would be a major
    > bummer!
    >
    > I'd like to make backups to insure against loss or destruction of the
    > original material.
    > The only way to protect it would be to store it away from the original
    > DVD.(i.e. not in my house or car). Safety deposit boxes would be way to
    > expensive.
    >
    > Can I make copies for someone else to hold for me? In exchange, in lieu

    of
    > a expensive fee or monthly storage charges, I would be willing to hold

    their
    > backup copies on a one disk to one disk basis with the understanding that

    I
    > can't view theirs, and they can't view mine.
    >
    > Sort of a mutual protection to mutual protection (MP2MP) {LOL}network,

    club,
    > or organization.
    >
    > What are the legal issues involved?
    >
    >
     
    LesV, Mar 3, 2005
    #8
  9. LesV

    Justin Guest

    LesV wrote on [Thu, 03 Mar 2005 17:54:07 GMT]:
    >
    > I have and I am.
    >
    > I think you might be missing the point of the discussion.


    Then why throw in superfluous information that has nothing to do with
    your goals?

    >
    > I had hoped this would be discussion of property rights, as defined by the
    > law.


    And I answered that given the information you provided

    >> Apparently you haven't heard of insurance?
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Justin, Mar 3, 2005
    #9
  10. LesV

    LesV Guest

    The questions in the original post are as follows:

    1) Is it legal to back up a DVD title you own, and on what basis?
    2) Can I make copies for someone else to hold for me?
    3) What are the legal issues involved?

    I also provided an EXAMPLE.

    The DMCA provides for, but is not limited to, "fair use" for consumers as
    follows:

    The following is copied from a PDF (Digital copy - LMFAO) of the DMCA:
    Copyright Office Summary December 1998 Page 3

    Article 18 of the WPPT contains nearly identical language.

    Section 103 of the DMCA adds a new chapter 12 to Title 17 of the U.S. Code.

    New section 1201 implements the obligation to provide adequate and effective

    protection against circumvention of technological measures used by copyright
    owners

    to protect their works.

    Section 1201 divides technological measures into two categories: measures
    that

    prevent unauthorized access to a copyrighted work and measures that prevent

    The Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998

    unauthorized copying of a copyrighted work. Making or selling devices or
    services that 2

    are used to circumvent either category of technological measure is
    prohibited in certain

    circumstances, described below. As to the act of circumvention in itself,
    the provision

    prohibits circumventing the first category of technological measures, but
    not the

    second.

    This distinction was employed to assure that the public will have the
    continued

    ability to make fair use of copyrighted works. Since copying of a work may
    be a fair use

    under appropriate circumstances, section 1201 does not prohibit the act of
    circumventing

    a technological measure that prevents copying. By contrast, since the fair
    use

    doctrine is not a defense to the act of gaining unauthorized access to a
    work, the act of

    circumventing a technological measure in order to gain access is prohibited.

    Section 1201 proscribes devices or services that fall within any one of the

    following three categories:

    ! they are primarily designed or produced to circumvent;

    ! they have only limited commercially significant purpose or use other

    than to circumvent; or

    ! they are marketed for use in circumventing.
     
    LesV, Mar 3, 2005
    #10
  11. LesV

    Dick Sidbury Guest

    LesV wrote:
    > The disc belongs to the purchaser. The content belongs to the studio.
    >
    > Are you not allowed to protect your property from loss or destruction?
    >
    > That's like saying you can back up the data on your computer but you have to
    > leave it on your computer.
    >
    > How stupid is that?

    The law was written by congress.
    Next question.

    dick
     
    Dick Sidbury, Mar 3, 2005
    #11
  12. "LesV" <> wrote in message
    news:C4IVd.97402$...
    > Touché
    >
    > What if I'm walking down the street with the DVD's in a briefcase and
    > somebody steals it?
    >
    > "Biz" <> wrote in message
    > news:mNHVd.318088$...
    >> Homeowner's insurance.......
    >>

    >

    Generally, insurance covers ALL of your (non listed) belongings where ever
    they may be - in your car, at a friend's place etc. High value items must be
    listed.
    However, there is usually a $300 o rmore deductable, and your premiums go up
    if you have a claim, so under $1000 it is not worth claiming.

    Stuart
     
    Stuart Miller, Mar 3, 2005
    #12
  13. LesV

    Rob Guest

    "LesV" <> wrote in message
    news:q_HVd.318156$...
    > The disc belongs to the purchaser. The content belongs to the studio.
    >
    > Are you not allowed to protect your property from loss or destruction?
    >
    > That's like saying you can back up the data on your computer but you have

    to
    > leave it on your computer.
    >
    > How stupid is that?
    > "Rob" <> wrote in message
    > news:qLHVd.26917$...
    > > "LesV" <> wrote in message
    > > news:8lHVd.317957$...
    > > > Is it legal to back up a DVD title you own, and on what basis?
    > > >
    > > > Example:
    > > >
    > > > I have a considerable collection of DVDs that I play often. I take

    real
    > > > good care of them, always returning them to their sleeve after

    playing,
    > > etc
    > > > However, a friend of mine recently had a fire and lost his whole

    > > collection
    > > > and I realized the same thing could happen to me. That would be a

    major
    > > > bummer!
    > > >
    > > > I'd like to make backups to insure against loss or destruction of the
    > > > original material.
    > > > The only way to protect it would be to store it away from the original
    > > > DVD.(i.e. not in my house or car). Safety deposit boxes would be way

    to
    > > > expensive.
    > > >
    > > > Can I make copies for someone else to hold for me? In exchange, in

    lieu
    > > of
    > > > a expensive fee or monthly storage charges, I would be willing to hold

    > > their
    > > > backup copies on a one disk to one disk basis with the understanding

    > that
    > > I
    > > > can't view theirs, and they can't view mine.
    > > >
    > > > Sort of a mutual protection to mutual protection (MP2MP) {LOL}network,

    > > club,
    > > > or organization.
    > > >
    > > > What are the legal issues involved?
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > > In simple terms, yes, you are allowed to make a backup of your own DVD.
    > > However, legally you cannot defeat or override any code that defeats the
    > > copy protection scheme placed on the original DVD by the Copyright

    Owner.
    > > This is the Catch 22. It's like pot - you can smoke it but you're not
    > > allowed to have it!
    > >
    > > Also, if you distribute your backup copy (ie: give it to someone else),

    > the
    > > original must go with it and vice versa. This suggests that your backup

    > must
    > > be kept with the original (which kinda defeats the purpose of having a
    > > backup).
    > >
    > > You should read the DMC Act for 'clarification'. Good luck :)
    > >
    > >

    >
    >


    Major stupid.

    And that's why we are forced (or, at least Americans are) to become major
    criminals when we want to protect our investment. I make backup copies of my
    originals and delete all the FBI Warnings, previews, alternate language
    tracks etc. on the copies. It's these copies that I watch when I want to see
    the movie again.

    Gawd ... we're BAD :)

    Rob
    Canada
     
    Rob, Mar 3, 2005
    #13
  14. LesV

    Rob Guest

    "LesV" <> wrote in message
    news:ulIVd.97452$...
    > For the sake of argument, lets assume the DVDs to be copyrighted, but not
    > copy protected. No technology will be circumvented in order to create a
    > copy.
    >
    >


    Then I can't see any law that prevents you from making a backup copy of
    something you paid for. Anyone else?

    Rob
    Canada
     
    Rob, Mar 3, 2005
    #14
  15. LesV

    Rob Guest

    "Stuart Miller" <> wrote in message
    news:D1JVd.565156$6l.331507@pd7tw2no...
    >
    > "LesV" <> wrote in message
    > news:C4IVd.97402$...
    > > Touché
    > >
    > > What if I'm walking down the street with the DVD's in a briefcase and
    > > somebody steals it?
    > >
    > > "Biz" <> wrote in message
    > > news:mNHVd.318088$...
    > >> Homeowner's insurance.......
    > >>

    > >

    > Generally, insurance covers ALL of your (non listed) belongings where ever
    > they may be - in your car, at a friend's place etc. High value items must

    be
    > listed.
    > However, there is usually a $300 o rmore deductable, and your premiums go

    up
    > if you have a claim, so under $1000 it is not worth claiming.
    >
    > Stuart
    >
    >

    Plus many insurance companies will insist on getting receipts. How many of
    you keep DVD receipts?
     
    Rob, Mar 3, 2005
    #15
  16. LesV

    Justin Guest

    Rob wrote on [Thu, 3 Mar 2005 17:57:46 -0600]:
    > "Stuart Miller" <> wrote in message
    > news:D1JVd.565156$6l.331507@pd7tw2no...
    >>
    >> "LesV" <> wrote in message
    >> news:C4IVd.97402$...
    >> > Touché
    >> >
    >> > What if I'm walking down the street with the DVD's in a briefcase and
    >> > somebody steals it?
    >> >
    >> > "Biz" <> wrote in message
    >> > news:mNHVd.318088$...
    >> >> Homeowner's insurance.......
    >> >>
    >> >

    >> Generally, insurance covers ALL of your (non listed) belongings where ever
    >> they may be - in your car, at a friend's place etc. High value items must

    > be
    >> listed.
    >> However, there is usually a $300 o rmore deductable, and your premiums go

    > up
    >> if you have a claim, so under $1000 it is not worth claiming.
    >>
    >> Stuart
    >>
    >>

    > Plus many insurance companies will insist on getting receipts. How many of
    > you keep DVD receipts?


    Oh bull. Just take photos of all the items.
     
    Justin, Mar 4, 2005
    #16
  17. LesV

    Rob Guest

    "Justin" <> wrote in message
    news:2go.com...
    > Rob wrote on [Thu, 3 Mar 2005 17:57:46 -0600]:
    > > "Stuart Miller" <> wrote in message
    > > news:D1JVd.565156$6l.331507@pd7tw2no...
    > >>
    > >> "LesV" <> wrote in message
    > >> news:C4IVd.97402$...
    > >> > Touché
    > >> >
    > >> > What if I'm walking down the street with the DVD's in a briefcase and
    > >> > somebody steals it?
    > >> >
    > >> > "Biz" <> wrote in message
    > >> > news:mNHVd.318088$...
    > >> >> Homeowner's insurance.......
    > >> >>
    > >> >
    > >> Generally, insurance covers ALL of your (non listed) belongings where

    ever
    > >> they may be - in your car, at a friend's place etc. High value items

    must
    > > be
    > >> listed.
    > >> However, there is usually a $300 o rmore deductable, and your premiums

    go
    > > up
    > >> if you have a claim, so under $1000 it is not worth claiming.
    > >>
    > >> Stuart
    > >>
    > >>

    > > Plus many insurance companies will insist on getting receipts. How many

    of
    > > you keep DVD receipts?

    >
    > Oh bull. Just take photos of all the items.


    Right! Now let's see ... should I take a photo of every DVD I buy, save the
    receipts, or???
     
    Rob, Mar 4, 2005
    #17
  18. LesV

    Dick Sidbury Guest

    Rob wrote:
    > "Justin" <> wrote in message
    > news:2go.com...
    >
    >>Rob wrote on [Thu, 3 Mar 2005 17:57:46 -0600]:
    >>
    >>>"Stuart Miller" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:D1JVd.565156$6l.331507@pd7tw2no...
    >>>
    >>>>"LesV" <> wrote in message
    >>>>news:C4IVd.97402$...
    >>>>
    >>>>>Touché
    >>>>>
    >>>>>What if I'm walking down the street with the DVD's in a briefcase and
    >>>>>somebody steals it?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>"Biz" <> wrote in message
    >>>>>news:mNHVd.318088$...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>Homeowner's insurance.......
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>Generally, insurance covers ALL of your (non listed) belongings where

    >
    > ever
    >
    >>>>they may be - in your car, at a friend's place etc. High value items

    >
    > must
    >
    >>>be
    >>>
    >>>>listed.
    >>>>However, there is usually a $300 o rmore deductable, and your premiums

    >
    > go
    >
    >>>up
    >>>
    >>>>if you have a claim, so under $1000 it is not worth claiming.
    >>>>
    >>>>Stuart
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>Plus many insurance companies will insist on getting receipts. How many

    >
    > of
    >
    >>>you keep DVD receipts?

    >>
    >>Oh bull. Just take photos of all the items.

    >
    >
    > Right! Now let's see ... should I take a photo of every DVD I buy, save the
    > receipts, or???
    >
    >

    Well actually I save receipts, primarily because occasionally you get a
    rebate and I'm too lazy to throw away old receipts. But I suspect that
    something like DVD Profiler would be acceptable proof for insurance.

    dick
     
    Dick Sidbury, Mar 4, 2005
    #18
  19. In article <wjRVd.27062$>,
    Rob <> wrote:
    >"Justin" <> wrote in message
    >news:2go.com...
    >> Rob wrote on [Thu, 3 Mar 2005 17:57:46 -0600]:
    >> > "Stuart Miller" <> wrote in message
    >> > news:D1JVd.565156$6l.331507@pd7tw2no...
    >> >>
    >> >> "LesV" <> wrote in message
    >> >> news:C4IVd.97402$...
    >> >> > Touché
    >> >> >
    >> >> > What if I'm walking down the street with the DVD's in a briefcase and
    >> >> > somebody steals it?
    >> >> >
    >> >> > "Biz" <> wrote in message
    >> >> > news:mNHVd.318088$...
    >> >> >> Homeowner's insurance.......
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >
    >> >> Generally, insurance covers ALL of your (non listed) belongings where

    >ever
    >> >> they may be - in your car, at a friend's place etc. High value items

    >must
    >> > be
    >> >> listed.
    >> >> However, there is usually a $300 o rmore deductable, and your premiums

    >go
    >> > up
    >> >> if you have a claim, so under $1000 it is not worth claiming.
    >> >>
    >> >> Stuart
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> > Plus many insurance companies will insist on getting receipts. How many

    >of
    >> > you keep DVD receipts?


    >> Oh bull. Just take photos of all the items.


    >Right! Now let's see ... should I take a photo of every DVD I
    >buy, save the receipts, or???


    And just watch the rights owners say that photos are violating the
    DCM :)



    --
    Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
     
    Bill Vermillion, Mar 4, 2005
    #19
  20. LesV

    Biz Guest

    "Rob" <> wrote in message
    news:WvNVd.27011$...
    > "Stuart Miller" <> wrote in message
    > news:D1JVd.565156$6l.331507@pd7tw2no...
    > >
    > > "LesV" <> wrote in message
    > > news:C4IVd.97402$...
    > > > Touché
    > > >
    > > > What if I'm walking down the street with the DVD's in a briefcase and
    > > > somebody steals it?
    > > >
    > > > "Biz" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:mNHVd.318088$...
    > > >> Homeowner's insurance.......
    > > >>
    > > >

    > > Generally, insurance covers ALL of your (non listed) belongings where

    ever
    > > they may be - in your car, at a friend's place etc. High value items

    must
    > be
    > > listed.
    > > However, there is usually a $300 o rmore deductable, and your premiums

    go
    > up
    > > if you have a claim, so under $1000 it is not worth claiming.
    > >
    > > Stuart
    > >
    > >

    > Plus many insurance companies will insist on getting receipts. How many of
    > you keep DVD receipts?
    >
    >


    Most dont require receipts if you maintain a household inventory, which you
    would need to do anyway. But do you blame them with all the insurance fruad
    thats rampant in many locales?
     
    Biz, Mar 4, 2005
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. BWGames

    Action Pack - legality?

    BWGames, Nov 19, 2004, in forum: Microsoft Certification
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    3,618
    T-Bone
    Dec 2, 2004
  2. Raj Singh
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    550
  3. vbMark

    Complicated music downloading legality question

    vbMark, Nov 1, 2004, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    14
    Views:
    988
    Millimeter
    Nov 12, 2004
  4. RichA

    DVD backup legality

    RichA, Feb 12, 2005, in forum: DVD Video
    Replies:
    49
    Views:
    2,453
    Richard C.
    Feb 17, 2005
  5. Replies:
    5
    Views:
    849
    Netmask
    Dec 14, 2007
Loading...

Share This Page