Re: Daylight Saving

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 22, 2007.

  1. In message <>, Patrick FitzGerald
    wrote:

    > Is there a patch or an update to Windows XP for the new daylight
    > saving times?


    You need more than one patch. There are apparently about 40 Dimdows apps
    that need patching, and those are just from Microsoft.

    Why doesn't Dimdows have the equivalent of a single,
    systemwide /usr/share/zoneinfo database that all apps can access? Then you
    would only need to update this data in one place. Looking at the source for
    the one commonly used on Unix/Linux systems
    <http://www.twinsun.com/tz/tz-link.htm>, the rules keep changing someplace
    in the world every few months--there have been seven updates this year
    alone. To require you to stay current by patching individual applications
    is just madness.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 22, 2007
    #1
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  2. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Rhino Guest

    On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 09:33:50 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    <_zealand> wrote:
    >Why doesn't Dimdows have the equivalent of a single,
    >systemwide /usr/share/zoneinfo database that all apps can access? Then you
    >would only need to update this data in one place. Looking at the source for
    >the one commonly used on Unix/Linux systems
    ><http://www.twinsun.com/tz/tz-link.htm>, the rules keep changing someplace
    >in the world every few months--there have been seven updates this year
    >alone. To require you to stay current by patching individual applications
    >is just madness.


    Windows does have something similar to the Linux zoneinfo files. It
    just happens to be contained in the registry. My XP and 2003 server
    machines have been updated automatically via WU. My Win2k box was
    updated via the Timezone Editor available for free from MS.

    Can you supply a list of the apps that need to be individually
    updated?
    Cheers, Rhino
    Rhino, Sep 23, 2007
    #2
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  3. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Ralph Fox Guest

    On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:59:17 +1200, in message <>,
    Rhino wrote:

    [snip LDO troll]

    > Windows does have something similar to the Linux zoneinfo files. It
    > just happens to be contained in the registry. My XP and 2003 server
    > machines have been updated automatically via WU. My Win2k box was
    > updated via the Timezone Editor available for free from MS.


    LDO has been told this before.

    Trolls are not silenced by being told again and again. It feeds them.


    > Can you supply a list of the apps that need to be individually
    > updated?


    Don't ask it to troll more.
    Ralph Fox, Sep 23, 2007
    #3
  4. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <>,
    Rhino <> wrote:


    > Can you supply a list of the apps that need to be individually
    > updated?
    > Cheers, Rhino


    No, however there is one thing that linux is better at than Windows ,
    FUD.
    whoisthis, Sep 23, 2007
    #4
  5. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Enkidu Guest

    Rhino wrote:
    > On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 09:33:50 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    > <_zealand> wrote:
    >> Why doesn't Dimdows have the equivalent of a single,
    >> systemwide /usr/share/zoneinfo database that all apps can access? Then you
    >> would only need to update this data in one place. Looking at the source for
    >> the one commonly used on Unix/Linux systems
    >> <http://www.twinsun.com/tz/tz-link.htm>, the rules keep changing someplace
    >> in the world every few months--there have been seven updates this year
    >> alone. To require you to stay current by patching individual applications
    >> is just madness.

    >
    > Windows does have something similar to the Linux zoneinfo files. It
    > just happens to be contained in the registry. My XP and 2003 server
    > machines have been updated automatically via WU. My Win2k box was
    > updated via the Timezone Editor available for free from MS.
    >
    > Can you supply a list of the apps that need to be individually
    > updated?
    >

    One biggy is Java. The other ones that I've come across are not that
    widespread.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Have you ever noticed that if something is advertised as 'amusing' or
    'hilarious', it usually isn't?
    Enkidu, Sep 23, 2007
    #5
  6. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Enkidu Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <>, Patrick FitzGerald
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Is there a patch or an update to Windows XP for the new daylight
    >> saving times?

    >
    > You need more than one patch. There are apparently about 40 Dimdows apps
    > that need patching, and those are just from Microsoft.
    >
    > Why doesn't Dimdows have the equivalent of a single,
    > systemwide /usr/share/zoneinfo database that all apps can access? Then you
    > would only need to update this data in one place. Looking at the source for
    > the one commonly used on Unix/Linux systems
    > <http://www.twinsun.com/tz/tz-link.htm>, the rules keep changing someplace
    > in the world every few months--there have been seven updates this year
    > alone. To require you to stay current by patching individual applications
    > is just madness.
    >

    That's a laugh. I've spent a number of hours patching Linux machines for
    the Daylight Savings changes, outside of the normal update schedule.
    It's not fun. Apart from the OS, which I did, my colleague has been
    updating Java on them all, plus a number of changes to other apps. There
    are also a number of 'other' Unix boxes that we haven't got to yet.

    http://www.javasanity.org/ (part way down)

    https://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Intl/tzupdatertool.html
    (This doesn't mention the NZ changes, but presumably they are in the
    latest version)

    It's much easier and quicker to download the relevant package for the
    distro rather than compile the tz data on each machine. The packages
    don't seem to have any pre-reqs and will even patch the libc6 package if
    that needs it.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Have you ever noticed that if something is advertised as 'amusing' or
    'hilarious', it usually isn't?
    Enkidu, Sep 23, 2007
    #6
  7. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    sam Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Rhino <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >>Can you supply a list of the apps that need to be individually
    >>updated?
    >>Cheers, Rhino

    >
    >
    > No, however there is one thing that linux is better at than Windows ,
    > FUD.


    Nothing is as lame as a Massey lab technician with a Mac
    sam, Sep 23, 2007
    #7
  8. In article <>, whoisthis <> wrote:
    >In article <>,
    > Rhino <> wrote:
    >> Can you supply a list of the apps that need to be individually
    >> updated?
    >> Cheers, Rhino

    >
    >No, however there is one thing that linux is better at than Windows ,
    >FUD.


    Can't let that one go by without ....


    <bbbzzzzzzt> I'm sorry that's wrong :)


    The FUD master has always been MS. From flogging a mostly stolen o/s to
    date. The only ones to come close might be telecon. :)
    Linux is not on the top 100.
    Bruce Sinclair, Sep 24, 2007
    #8
  9. In message <>, Rhino wrote:

    > Windows does have something similar to the Linux zoneinfo files. It
    > just happens to be contained in the registry.


    Which is a) dangerous to edit, and b) not used by many apps, from the sound
    of it. Which is why so many of them need their own patches.

    Oh, and c) not standardized between different Dimdows versions, the way
    zoneinfo is standard between different Unix/Linux systems. Which could be
    why Dimdows apps don't find it worth using.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 24, 2007
    #9
  10. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Geoff Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <>, Rhino wrote:
    >
    >> Windows does have something similar to the Linux zoneinfo files. It
    >> just happens to be contained in the registry.

    >
    > Which is a) dangerous to edit,


    I have manual edited registries hundreds of times withoyut problems. In
    what way do you consider it 'dangerous'.

    >and b) not used by many apps, from the
    > sound of it.


    Pretty much all but the most trivial small applets use registry settings.

    >Which is why so many of them need their own patches.
    >
    > Oh, and c) not standardized between different Dimdows versions, the
    > way zoneinfo is standard between different Unix/Linux systems. Which
    > could be why Dimdows apps don't find it worth using


    ..... but you application may not works unless you get the correct Lanus.
    distribution and build.


    geoff
    Geoff, Sep 24, 2007
    #10
  11. On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 07:33:08 +1200, whoisthis <> wrote in
    <news:>:

    > In article <>,
    > Rhino <> wrote:
    >
    >> Can you supply a list of the apps that need to be individually
    >> updated?
    >> Cheers, Rhino

    >
    > No, however there is one thing that linux is better at than Windows ,
    > FUD.


    There is no FUD about that.

    --
    Nicolaas
    Nicolaas Hawkins, Sep 24, 2007
    #11
  12. In message <>, Geoff wrote:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>
    >> In message <>, Rhino wrote:
    >>
    >>> Windows does have something similar to the Linux zoneinfo files. It
    >>> just happens to be contained in the registry.

    >>
    >> Which is a) dangerous to edit,

    >
    > I have manual edited registries hundreds of times withoyut problems. In
    > what way do you consider it 'dangerous'.


    It's well-known that Registry edits run the risk of hosing your system
    <http://weblogs.asp.net/dwanta/archive/2004/03/31/105050.aspx>,
    <http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-1035-1054841.html>,
    <http://www.computerperformance.co.uk/vista/vista_registry_5_stages.htm>.

    >> Oh, and c) not standardized between different Dimdows versions, the
    >> way zoneinfo is standard between different Unix/Linux systems. Which
    >> could be why Dimdows apps don't find it worth using

    >
    > .... but you application may not works unless you get the correct Lanus.
    > distribution and build.


    I'm trying to understand what that means. It's either nonsense or wrong, I'm
    not sure which.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 24, 2007
    #12
  13. On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 15:40:08 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    > It's well-known that Registry edits run the risk of hosing your system


    Bullshit!

    The risk for manually editing the M$ Windows Registry is no greater or
    lesser than having a piece of software do the editing for you.

    The Registry is updated/edited every time you restart M$ Windows, or
    indeed when you restart any M$ Windows application that stores its settings
    within the registry.

    In fact, given how many times the M$ Windows Registry is edited by the
    software in use on a M$ Windows PC, I would suggest that statistically a
    single manual edit of the M$ Windows Registry is of lower risk of crashing
    that machine than the automatic editing that takes place.

    The more important question should be: why on a M$ Windows machine is
    read-only data kept within the same file ("Registry") as data that changes
    all the time?


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
    dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
    Jonathan Walker, Sep 24, 2007
    #13
  14. In message <>, Jonathan Walker wrote:

    > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 15:40:08 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> It's well-known that Registry edits run the risk of hosing your system

    >
    > Bullshit!


    Those examples I gave indicate otherwise
    <http://weblogs.asp.net/dwanta/archive/2004/03/31/105050.aspx>,
    <http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-1035-1054841.html>,
    <http://www.computerperformance.co.uk/vista/vista_registry_5_stages.htm>.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 24, 2007
    #14
  15. On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 16:41:32 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    >> Bullshit!

    >
    > Those examples I gave indicate otherwise


    You seem to have completely failed to understand that the M$ Windows
    Registry is edited very frequently by every application that stores its
    data within the M$ Windows Registry.

    An Administrator, making a manual change to the registry contains as much
    of a chance of hosing that computer as does any application when it edits
    the M$ Windows Registry.

    We all already know that the M$ Windows Registry was a stupid idea in the
    first place. I would go as far as to say that it is probably the single
    biggest week spot on M$ Windows.

    But a person who is familiar with administering M$ Windows *manually*
    editing that file using regedit - I see no problem with that.


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
    dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
    Jonathan Walker, Sep 24, 2007
    #15
  16. In message <>, Jonathan Walker wrote:

    > An Administrator, making a manual change to the registry contains as much
    > of a chance of hosing that computer as does any application when it edits
    > the M$ Windows Registry.


    And that refutes my point how, exactly?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 24, 2007
    #16
  17. On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:56:05 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    > In message <>, Jonathan Walker wrote:
    >
    >> An Administrator, making a manual change to the registry contains as much
    >> of a chance of hosing that computer as does any application when it edits
    >> the M$ Windows Registry.

    >
    > And that refutes my point how, exactly?


    What point have you made?


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
    dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
    Jonathan Walker, Sep 24, 2007
    #17
  18. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Mickey Mouse Guest

    "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    news:fd7f5s$gnf$...
    > In message <>, Jonathan Walker wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 15:40:08 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>
    >>> It's well-known that Registry edits run the risk of hosing your system

    >>
    >> Bullshit!

    >
    > Those examples I gave indicate otherwise


    For those more interested in useful information, rather than yet another
    display of frothing at the mouth over Windows by "lawrence", the following
    free utils may be of interest;

    Wise Registry Cleaner 2.92 Build 95
    http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/Registry-Tweak/Wise-Registry-Cleaner.shtml

    Auslogics Registry Defrag 4.0.4.47
    http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/Registry-Tweak/Auslogics-Registry-Defrag.shtml

    I have used both (in Vista) and can recommend them if you're looking to tidy
    up and speed up registry access.

    It should also be noted that in many years of Windows use and numerous
    manual edits to the registry on a number of Windows versions, I have never
    had any incident, but then I don't just go through randomly deleting keys
    and replacing them with "Lawrence is an expert in configuring and
    maintaining systems running Microsoft Windows".
    Mickey Mouse, Sep 24, 2007
    #18
  19. In message <>, Jonathan Walker wrote:

    > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:56:05 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> In message <>, Jonathan Walker wrote:
    >>
    >>> An Administrator, making a manual change to the registry contains as
    >>> much of a chance of hosing that computer as does any application when it
    >>> edits the M$ Windows Registry.

    >>
    >> And that refutes my point how, exactly?

    >
    > What point have you made?


    The dangers of Registry editing.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 24, 2007
    #19
  20. On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:08:13 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    >>>> An Administrator, making a manual change to the registry contains as
    >>>> much of a chance of hosing that computer as does any application when it
    >>>> edits the M$ Windows Registry.
    >>>
    >>> And that refutes my point how, exactly?

    >>
    >> What point have you made?

    >
    > The dangers of Registry editing.


    Both M$ Windows and applications of M$ Windows routinely edit the M$
    Windows registry. What dangers are those?


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
    dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
    Jonathan Walker, Sep 24, 2007
    #20
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