Re: Credit Card Security

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Neil Dinelly, Jan 4, 2009.

  1. Neil Dinelly

    Neil Dinelly Guest

    Jay K. <invalid.none.non> wrote in message
    news::

    > Jimchip wrote:
    >> On 2009-01-04, Jay K. <invalid.none.non> wrote:
    >>> Jimchip wrote:
    >>>> On 2009-01-03, Jay K <> wrote:
    >>>>

    >> [snip]
    >>>> That's the big question. However, check the terms for your credit
    >>>> card... You may be at risk for at most $50 and the credit card
    >>>> people do like to investigate and may even 'forgive' your $50
    >>>> liability. You might also do some searches on your normal vendors.
    >>>> Some try to keep data theft secret but the responsible ones have
    >>>> been going public 1) in order to warn other customers and 2) to
    >>>> avoid any liability foisted on them by the credit company. The
    >>>> vendors pay a fee to the credit card company but also may have a
    >>>> liability clause in their agreement. Many vendors carry insurance
    >>>> regarding that issue. If your theft is computer related, one common
    >>>> place it occurs is
    >>>> with the data a browser might retain based on filling in forms. If
    >>>> you save that data then a leaky browser might be could be the
    >>>> culprit. Have you done a recent virus, etc. scan on your systems? No
    >>>> bots,
    >>>> trojans, keyloggers?
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> I an very good about keeping my system secure
    >>> and have recently checked the machine for most everything
    >>> including root kits.
    >>> My credit card company will not hold me responsible for any
    >>> purchases I do not make but still, I don't want anything like this
    >>> to happen... When I canceled my card they told me it would be five
    >>> days before I got a new one.I told them I'd need it sooner and pay
    >>> any additional charges. They then said my new card will be here
    >>> Monday and they'd waive the express shipping fee.

    >>
    >> I would say "No worries", then. It sounds like you're dealing with a
    >> good cc provider and the only *really* bad thing that would happen in
    >> the future is the same thing. However, an event like that might help
    >> you pin down the vendor.
    >>

    > Considering I have been using credit cards for over 30 years
    > and have never ended up with a false charge yet...
    > I'd say the system is working.
    > However I am going to get a 2nd card and use one for on-line purchases
    > only ...that way, should something like this happen again...
    > I can at least narrow down where the problem is


    There are cards available which are not 'credit' cards but are honored by
    the likes of 'Mastercard'.

    The principle is that you load an amount of money on the card and use it as
    you would a credit card - that way fraud is limited only by the amount on
    the card and not to a higher arbitary amount upto potentially a credit card
    limit.

    Google 'cashplus'.
    Neil Dinelly, Jan 4, 2009
    #1
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  2. Jimchip squawked:

    > On 2009-01-04, Neil Dinelly <> wrote:
    >> Jay K. <invalid.none.non> wrote in message
    >> news::
    >>
    >>> Jimchip wrote:
    >>>> On 2009-01-04, Jay K. <invalid.none.non> wrote:
    >>>>> Jimchip wrote:
    >>>>>> On 2009-01-03, Jay K <> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>> [snip]
    >>>>>> That's the big question. However, check the terms for your credit
    >>>>>> card... You may be at risk for at most $50 and the credit card
    >>>>>> people do like to investigate and may even 'forgive' your $50
    >>>>>> liability. You might also do some searches on your normal
    >>>>>> vendors. Some try to keep data theft secret but the responsible
    >>>>>> ones have been going public 1) in order to warn other customers
    >>>>>> and 2) to avoid any liability foisted on them by the credit
    >>>>>> company. The vendors pay a fee to the credit card company but
    >>>>>> also may have a liability clause in their agreement. Many
    >>>>>> vendors carry insurance regarding that issue. If your theft is
    >>>>>> computer related, one common place it occurs is
    >>>>>> with the data a browser might retain based on filling in forms.
    >>>>>> If you save that data then a leaky browser might be could be the
    >>>>>> culprit. Have you done a recent virus, etc. scan on your
    >>>>>> systems? No bots,
    >>>>>> trojans, keyloggers?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I an very good about keeping my system secure
    >>>>> and have recently checked the machine for most everything
    >>>>> including root kits.
    >>>>> My credit card company will not hold me responsible for any
    >>>>> purchases I do not make but still, I don't want anything like this
    >>>>> to happen... When I canceled my card they told me it would be five
    >>>>> days before I got a new one.I told them I'd need it sooner and pay
    >>>>> any additional charges. They then said my new card will be here
    >>>>> Monday and they'd waive the express shipping fee.
    >>>>
    >>>> I would say "No worries", then. It sounds like you're dealing with
    >>>> a good cc provider and the only *really* bad thing that would
    >>>> happen in the future is the same thing. However, an event like
    >>>> that might help you pin down the vendor.
    >>>>
    >>> Considering I have been using credit cards for over 30 years
    >>> and have never ended up with a false charge yet...
    >>> I'd say the system is working.
    >>> However I am going to get a 2nd card and use one for on-line
    >>> purchases only ...that way, should something like this happen
    >>> again...
    >>> I can at least narrow down where the problem is

    >>
    >> There are cards available which are not 'credit' cards but are
    >> honored by the likes of 'Mastercard'.
    >>
    >> The principle is that you load an amount of money on the card and
    >> use it as you would a credit card - that way fraud is limited only
    >> by the amount on the card and not to a higher arbitary amount upto
    >> potentially a credit card limit.

    >
    > That sounds less secure than a cc that indemnifies one against a
    > fraudulent transaction.


    Not so - specifically, if you only load onto the card an amount with which
    you intend to use to make a purchase - Ergo, if the card has zero funds or
    insufficient funds the transaction will not go through and the same will
    apply at cashpoint machines.

    > YMMV.
    >
    >> Google 'cashplus'.

    >
    > Yes, they are full of cash. :)


    It is common place for companies like 'cashplus' to rape financially those
    who in the first instance cannot obtain a credit card and will as a
    consequence be charged through the nose where they don't have sufficient
    credit-worthiness.

    Life's a biatch.
    Stephen Brikey, Jan 4, 2009
    #2
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  3. Neil Dinelly

    DevilsPGD Guest

    In message <gjr8nd$hos$> "Stephen Brikey"
    <> was claimed to have wrote:

    >Not so - specifically, if you only load onto the card an amount with which
    >you intend to use to make a purchase - Ergo, if the card has zero funds or
    >insufficient funds the transaction will not go through and the same will
    >apply at cashpoint machines.


    While true, a card with $0 is not particularly useful. Once you do load
    the card with prepaid funds, it's up for grabs and you have little legal
    recourse if the company doesn't want to cover you.
    DevilsPGD, Jan 5, 2009
    #3
  4. DevilsPGD <> wrote in message
    news::

    > In message <gjr8nd$hos$> "Stephen Brikey"
    > <> was claimed to have wrote:
    >
    >> Not so - specifically, if you only load onto the card an amount with
    >> which you intend to use to make a purchase - Ergo, if the card has
    >> zero funds or insufficient funds the transaction will not go through
    >> and the same will apply at cashpoint machines.

    >
    > While true, a card with $0 is not particularly useful. Once you do
    > load the card with prepaid funds, it's up for grabs and you have
    > little legal recourse if the company doesn't want to cover you.


    The OP said he would get a second credit card to make certain transactions -
    if he sticks to using a card purely for hinternet transactions with a cc
    he's as much at risk if not more than if he were to load the cp card at a
    point at which he intends to use it (immediately).

    Granted, whilst all theives are opportunists his details of the cp card
    could indeed still fall into the fraudsters grubby little mits and chance by
    the fraudster could favor him at a time the cp card is loaded. What are the
    chances of that, I wonder? Scratch that, I don't care.

    Little to nothing is fool-proof, except perhaps 24houridiotsupport.helpdesk
    but that's only because it's a moderated group.
    Andrew Garrison, Jan 5, 2009
    #4
  5. Neil Dinelly

    Aardvark Guest

    On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 07:17:13 -0500, Andrew Garrison wrote:

    > Little to nothing is fool-proof, except perhaps
    > 24houridiotsupport.helpdesk but that's only because it's a moderated
    > group.


    Oh yes? Since when?



    --
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YXTN3h-b9nU
    Aardvark, Jan 5, 2009
    #5
  6. Jay K. trumpeted:

    > Jimchip wrote:


    >Since I am not liable for any false charges I
    > think the risk is not worth worrying about.


    Yet, and until the card companies begin to tailor then level responsibility
    on you.

    They will eventually seek to have you prove you weren't neglegent.
    Helaina Harper, Jan 6, 2009
    #6
  7. Neil Dinelly

    Si Sefton Guest

    Jimchip spluttered:

    > On 2009-01-06, Helaina Harper <> wrote:
    >> Jay K. trumpeted:
    >>
    >>> Jimchip wrote:

    >>
    >>> Since I am not liable for any false charges I
    >>> think the risk is not worth worrying about.

    >>
    >> Yet, and until the card companies begin to tailor then level
    >> responsibility on you.
    >>
    >> They will eventually seek to have you prove you weren't neglegent.

    >
    > Now, now, the cc companies are not insurance companies :) Companies
    > like Visa charge vendors from 2%-5% in addition to whatever fees and
    > interest they make from the consumer. Their goal is to keep the
    > comsumer coming back for more. They won't jam somebody if the loss or
    > fraud is reported immediately... they'll just wait until one has
    > quite a balance and then raise the interest rate. :)


    'They' can do *anything* 'they' like, when they like, so long as 'they'
    comply with regulations as interpreted on any given day resultant from any
    given action or matter for recourse.

    'anything' = all the above and more combined or selectively.
    Si Sefton, Jan 6, 2009
    #7
  8. Neil Dinelly

    DevilsPGD Guest

    In message <gjvf9g$3o1$> "Helaina Harper"
    <> was claimed to have wrote:

    >Jay K. trumpeted:
    >
    >> Jimchip wrote:

    >
    >>Since I am not liable for any false charges I
    >> think the risk is not worth worrying about.

    >
    >Yet, and until the card companies begin to tailor then level responsibility
    >on you.
    >
    >They will eventually seek to have you prove you weren't neglegent.


    How so? Visa doesn't eat the cost, they pass it back to the merchant
    along with various investigation fees and chargeback fees. Ultimately
    both Visa and the issuing bank probably make more money on a chargeback
    then they would have on a legitimate purchase.
    DevilsPGD, Jan 6, 2009
    #8
  9. Neil Dinelly

    DevilsPGD Guest

    In message <> Jimchip
    <> was claimed to have wrote:

    >FWIW, if there is a data leak somewhere, I'm most suspicious of 'PayPal
    >only vendors'. It's not that hard to set up a vendor account with Visa,
    >for example, and PayPal charges a fee, also. They seem to be a little
    >more loose since they can bang on Visa's door and claim they were
    >defrauded. Sorta like some stuff that' offered on ebay :) Caveat Emptor


    Setting up a merchant account and starting to sell using PayPal as a
    processor is fairly trivial, you can literally copy and paste the code
    from PayPal for basic needs.

    You have very little security requirements from PayPal's side since they
    handle all of the payment processing on their side. You don't even need
    SSL.

    Actually handling credit cards is a much more difficult process, and
    although the operating costs aren't that far off, you absorb far more
    risk since PayPal performs far more address verification and spends more
    preventing fraud then an end merchant can do.

    I'm not a big fan of using PayPal to pay companies, but I certain
    understand.
    DevilsPGD, Jan 6, 2009
    #9
  10. Neil Dinelly

    Mara Guest

    On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 10:57:51 -0600, Jimchip <> wrote:

    >On 2009-01-06, Si Sefton <> wrote:


    <snip>
    >> 'They' can do *anything* 'they' like, when they like, so long as 'they'
    >> comply with regulations as interpreted on any given day resultant from any
    >> given action or matter for recourse.
    >>
    >> 'anything' = all the above and more combined or selectively.

    >
    >I can do *anything* I like, when I like, so long as I comply
    >with regulations as interpreted on any given day resultant from any
    >given action or matter for recourse. 'anything' = all the above and more
    >combined or selectively.


    As long as it's not bobbing for shelled peanuts. I'm sorry but I can't allow
    that.

    --
    Goodbye, Army, dear old Army of the Potomac. Tattered and torn,
    you are crowned with the victor's laurels at last.
    -- Elisha Hunt Rhodes, Col. 2nd R. I., July 15, 1865
    Mara, Jan 6, 2009
    #10
  11. Neil Dinelly

    Mara Guest

    On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:03:24 -0600, Jimchip <> wrote:

    >On 2009-01-06, Mara <> wrote:
    >>
    >> On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 10:57:51 -0600, Jimchip <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On 2009-01-06, Si Sefton <> wrote:

    >>
    >><snip>
    >>>> 'They' can do *anything* 'they' like, when they like, so long as 'they'
    >>>> comply with regulations as interpreted on any given day resultant from any
    >>>> given action or matter for recourse.
    >>>>
    >>>> 'anything' = all the above and more combined or selectively.
    >>>
    >>>I can do *anything* I like, when I like, so long as I comply
    >>>with regulations as interpreted on any given day resultant from any
    >>>given action or matter for recourse. 'anything' = all the above and more
    >>>combined or selectively.

    >>
    >> As long as it's not bobbing for shelled peanuts. I'm sorry but I can't allow
    >> that.

    >
    >What else is there to do when one is handcuffed and there are only
    >shelled peanuts in the glove-box?


    You pull your head outta there and put your brains back in. Have you lost your
    mind?!

    --
    Goodbye, Army, dear old Army of the Potomac. Tattered and torn,
    you are crowned with the victor's laurels at last.
    -- Elisha Hunt Rhodes, Col. 2nd R. I., July 15, 1865
    Mara, Jan 7, 2009
    #11
  12. Neil Dinelly

    Mara Guest

    On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:57:57 -0600, Jimchip <> wrote:

    >On 2009-01-07, Mara <> wrote:
    >>
    >> On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:03:24 -0600, Jimchip <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On 2009-01-06, Mara <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 10:57:51 -0600, Jimchip <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>On 2009-01-06, Si Sefton <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>><snip>
    >>>>>> 'They' can do *anything* 'they' like, when they like, so long as 'they'
    >>>>>> comply with regulations as interpreted on any given day resultant from any
    >>>>>> given action or matter for recourse.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> 'anything' = all the above and more combined or selectively.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>I can do *anything* I like, when I like, so long as I comply
    >>>>>with regulations as interpreted on any given day resultant from any
    >>>>>given action or matter for recourse. 'anything' = all the above and more
    >>>>>combined or selectively.
    >>>>
    >>>> As long as it's not bobbing for shelled peanuts. I'm sorry but I can't allow
    >>>> that.
    >>>
    >>>What else is there to do when one is handcuffed and there are only
    >>>shelled peanuts in the glove-box?

    >>
    >> You pull your head outta there and put your brains back in. Have you lost your
    >> mind?!

    >
    >The duct tape is helping to keep the brains in. I guess that's one
    >advantage to being a crash-test dummy :)


    Ah, geez. If you have your head in the glove box that must mean I'm having to
    look at "plumber's crack." DON'T make me spackle it shut.

    --
    Goodbye, Army, dear old Army of the Potomac. Tattered and torn,
    you are crowned with the victor's laurels at last.
    -- Elisha Hunt Rhodes, Col. 2nd R. I., July 15, 1865
    Mara, Jan 7, 2009
    #12
  13. Jimchip <> wrote in message
    news::

    > On 2009-01-07, Mara <> wrote:
    >>
    >> On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:57:57 -0600, Jimchip
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 2009-01-07, Mara <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:03:24 -0600, Jimchip
    >>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 2009-01-06, Mara <> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 10:57:51 -0600, Jimchip
    >>>>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On 2009-01-06, Si Sefton <> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> <snip>
    >>>>>>>> 'They' can do *anything* 'they' like, when they like, so long
    >>>>>>>> as 'they' comply with regulations as interpreted on any given
    >>>>>>>> day resultant from any given action or matter for recourse.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> 'anything' = all the above and more combined or selectively.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> I can do *anything* I like, when I like, so long as I comply
    >>>>>>> with regulations as interpreted on any given day resultant from
    >>>>>>> any given action or matter for recourse. 'anything' = all the
    >>>>>>> above and more combined or selectively.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> As long as it's not bobbing for shelled peanuts. I'm sorry but I
    >>>>>> can't allow that.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> What else is there to do when one is handcuffed and there are only
    >>>>> shelled peanuts in the glove-box?
    >>>>
    >>>> You pull your head outta there and put your brains back in. Have
    >>>> you lost your mind?!
    >>>
    >>> The duct tape is helping to keep the brains in. I guess that's one
    >>> advantage to being a crash-test dummy :)

    >>
    >> Ah, geez. If you have your head in the glove box that must mean I'm
    >> having to look at "plumber's crack." DON'T make me spackle it shut.

    >
    > No! Don't do that! OK, I'll go defensive driving.


    Disgusting!! Cybersex is so yesterday, will you two get a room or something?
    Reginald McNeil, Jan 7, 2009
    #13
  14. Neil Dinelly

    Mara Guest

    On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 09:15:48 -0600, Jimchip <> wrote:

    >On 2009-01-07, Mara <> wrote:
    >>
    >> On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:57:57 -0600, Jimchip <> wrote:


    <snip>

    >>>The duct tape is helping to keep the brains in. I guess that's one
    >>>advantage to being a crash-test dummy :)

    >>
    >> Ah, geez. If you have your head in the glove box that must mean I'm having to
    >> look at "plumber's crack." DON'T make me spackle it shut.

    >
    >No! Don't do that! OK, I'll go defensive driving.


    Ah. Good. Today's lesson is "How to try to avoid hitting M1A1s while driving
    blindfolded."

    --
    Goodbye, Army, dear old Army of the Potomac. Tattered and torn,
    you are crowned with the victor's laurels at last.
    -- Elisha Hunt Rhodes, Col. 2nd R. I., July 15, 1865
    Mara, Jan 7, 2009
    #14
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