Re: Cool Linux Ad from IBM

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Peter, Sep 5, 2003.

  1. Peter

    Peter Guest

    this quote is from Steve of Fri, 05 Sep 2003 18:11 :
    > IBM is going to be presenting a new Linux ad in the US during the US
    > Open Tennis men's final.
    >
    > It gets the 'open' message across pretty well.
    >
    > http://www.adage.com/news.cms?newsId=38634


    Yes - nice

    "the future is open"

    Transcript over here ...
    http://www-3.ibm.com/e-business/doc/content/ondemand/prodigy_transcript.html

    I like the latin bit, apparently it means something along the lines of
    "things belonging to the public in common, no one may dominate it".



    Peter
    Peter, Sep 5, 2003
    #1
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  2. Peter

    steve Guest

    Peter allegedly said:

    > this quote is from Steve of Fri, 05 Sep 2003 18:11 :
    >> IBM is going to be presenting a new Linux ad in the US during the US
    >> Open Tennis men's final.
    >>
    >> It gets the 'open' message across pretty well.
    >>
    >> http://www.adage.com/news.cms?newsId=38634

    >
    > Yes - nice
    >
    > "the future is open"
    >
    > Transcript over here ...
    >

    http://www-3.ibm.com/e-business/doc/content/ondemand/prodigy_transcript.html
    >
    > I like the latin bit, apparently it means something along the lines of
    > "things belonging to the public in common, no one may dominate it".
    >
    > Peter


    .....and the black professor speaking to the boy is Henry Gates... :)
    steve, Sep 5, 2003
    #2
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  3. "Patrick Bold" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Peter" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > this quote is from Steve of Fri, 05 Sep 2003 18:11 :
    > > > IBM is going to be presenting a new Linux ad in the US during the US
    > > > Open Tennis men's final.
    > > >
    > > > It gets the 'open' message across pretty well.
    > > >
    > > > http://www.adage.com/news.cms?newsId=38634

    > >
    > > Yes - nice
    > >
    > > "the future is open"
    > >
    > > Transcript over here ...
    > >

    >

    http://www-3.ibm.com/e-business/doc/content/ondemand/prodigy_transcript.html
    > >
    > > I like the latin bit, apparently it means something along the lines of
    > > "things belonging to the public in common, no one may dominate it".
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Ah, the power of advertising! Who can forget Shell Oil's ads depicting
    > the creation of a clean environement as their primary mission? Or
    > Telecom's ads portaying its monopoly of phone services as the key to
    > world peace. Now we have IBM -- one of the largest and most powerful
    > privately owned companies in the world -- telling us that the future
    > lies in "things belonging to the public in common". Linux-heads who find
    > themselves gushing over these ads would do well to ask themselves, "How
    > open is the future really going to be for kids (and adults and
    > businesses and governments) who can no more afford to pay IBM's service
    > fees for good software than they can Microsoft's licensing fees?"
    >
    >


    They still get free software, and anyone can support it
    Co operation pays off, and it doesn't matter who co operates.
    Just look at the list though

    http://www.osdl.org/about_osdl/

    OSDL Mission


    To be the recognized center of gravity for Linux; the central body dedicated
    to accelerating the use of Linux for enterprise computing through:



    a.. Enterprise-class testing and other technical support for the Linux
    development community.
    b.. Marshalling of Linux-industry resources to focus investment on areas
    of greatest need thereby eliminating inhibitors to growth.
    c.. Practical guidance to our members - vendors and end users alike - on
    working effectively with the Linux development community.


    About OSDL


    OSDL - home to Linus Torvalds, the creator of Linux - is dedicated to
    accelerating the growth and adoption of Linux in the enterprise. Founded in
    2000 and supported by a global consortium of IT industry leaders, OSDL is a
    non-profit organization that provides state-of the-art computing and test
    facilities in the United States and Japan available to developers around the
    world. OSDL sponsors include Alcatel, Cisco, Computer Associates, Dell,
    Ericsson, Force Computers, Fujitsu, HP, Hitachi, IBM, Intel, Linuxcare,
    Miracle Linux Corporation, Mitsubishi Electric, MontaVista Software, NEC
    Corporation, Nokia, Red Hat, SuSE, TimeSys, Toshiba, Transmeta Corporation
    and VA Software
    Olson Johnson, Sep 5, 2003
    #3
  4. Peter

    T.N.O Guest

    "Olson Johnson" wrote
    > They still get free software, and anyone can support it
    > Co operation pays off, and it doesn't matter who co operates.


    rotflmao

    Sorry, this just so reminded of Sesame St from when I was a kid...

    co-operation... heh
    T.N.O, Sep 5, 2003
    #4
  5. Peter

    Enkidu Guest

    On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:49:12 -0400, "Patrick Bold"
    <> wrote:

    >"Peter" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> this quote is from Steve of Fri, 05 Sep 2003 18:11 :
    >> > IBM is going to be presenting a new Linux ad in the US during the US
    >> > Open Tennis men's final.
    >> >
    >> > It gets the 'open' message across pretty well.
    >> >
    >> > http://www.adage.com/news.cms?newsId=38634

    >>
    >> Yes - nice
    >>
    >> "the future is open"
    >>
    >> Transcript over here ...
    >>

    >http://www-3.ibm.com/e-business/doc/content/ondemand/prodigy_transcript.html
    >>
    >> I like the latin bit, apparently it means something along the lines of
    >> "things belonging to the public in common, no one may dominate it".
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Ah, the power of advertising! Who can forget Shell Oil's ads depicting
    >the creation of a clean environement as their primary mission? Or
    >Telecom's ads portaying its monopoly of phone services as the key to
    >world peace. Now we have IBM -- one of the largest and most powerful
    >privately owned companies in the world -- telling us that the future
    >lies in "things belonging to the public in common". Linux-heads who find
    >themselves gushing over these ads would do well to ask themselves, "How
    >open is the future really going to be for kids (and adults and
    >businesses and governments) who can no more afford to pay IBM's service
    >fees for good software than they can Microsoft's licensing fees?"
    >

    Kids, adults, businesses and governments get no support at all from
    Microsoft anyway (99% of the time). Businesses and governments usually
    pay someone to provide support already (either internal or external).

    Paying IBM for support of Linux is no different to paying Unisys for
    support of Microsoft products. Except that if you use Microsoft you
    pay the fees for the products as well.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign
    that the conspiracy is working.
    Enkidu, Sep 5, 2003
    #5
  6. Peter

    T.N.O Guest

    "Olson Johnson" wrote
    > Done anything on your own ?


    yes I have.

    > How else did anyone make any software ?


    Dont know, dont care... I was just laughing at how it reminded me of seasame
    st...
    T.N.O, Sep 5, 2003
    #6
  7. Peter

    T.N.O Guest

    "Olson Johnson" wrote
    > Do you think Sesame St was wrong ?


    no... ffs, I was just laughing at it, whats with all the questions... freak.
    T.N.O, Sep 6, 2003
    #7
  8. Peter

    steve Guest

    T.N.O allegedly said:

    > "Olson Johnson" wrote
    >> They still get free software, and anyone can support it
    >> Co operation pays off, and it doesn't matter who co operates.

    >
    > rotflmao
    >
    > Sorry, this just so reminded of Sesame St from when I was a kid...
    >
    > co-operation... heh


    You need to re-learn it, I guess.

    The thing I find interesting is the virtualisation of the "commons".

    People have always known that co-operation is essential for survival.
    Societies fall apart when trust and co-operation are severely eroded.

    The present version of free-market capitalists who want to turn everything
    into property are running up against the limits within which society will
    allow such silliyness to prevail.

    Sharing is good. It works.
    steve, Sep 6, 2003
    #8
  9. Peter

    T.N.O Guest

    "steve" wrote
    > > co-operation... heh

    >
    > You need to re-learn it, I guess.


    Why do you say that? have I seemed to be non-co-operative?

    > People have always known that co-operation is essential for survival.


    Well, actually, if you can do everything yourself well enough to survive,
    then it isn't, but thats not a likely senario is it :)

    > Sharing is good. It works.


    yes it is... but sharing can have prices put on it, hence why barter was
    invented like a million years ago...
    T.N.O, Sep 6, 2003
    #9
  10. Peter

    T.N.O Guest

    "steve" wrote
    > >> Do you think Sesame St was wrong ?

    > >
    > > no... ffs, I was just laughing at it, whats with all the questions...
    > > freak.

    >
    > He's exploring the reason for your laughter.
    >
    > Co-operation is a way of life to many....and not restricted to memories of
    > Sesame St.


    Well I laughed at your post to, could it be that I am simply easily amused,
    or maybe I'm crazy... maybe I'm jolly(no jokes those that know me :)...

    Scarily, I laughed at my own post when I wrote it, maybe I am crazy. heh...

    ahem.
    T.N.O, Sep 6, 2003
    #10
  11. Peter

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 11:29:44 +1200, steve <> wrote:
    >
    >Have you seen the ad?
    >

    Yes, and I don't like it. It's grainy, out of focus. It has a little
    boy dumbly sitting listening to adults. It reminds me of that classic
    sci-fi film THX-1138. I guess it is *supposed* to look amateur, what
    with the fingerprints on the image? It says nothing at all to me about
    openness. All the writing of all those people is available, in much
    more detail in a library, for example.

    >The reason for pointing this out is that the IDEA of sharing and openness is
    >being promoted agressively by IBM. It is a powerful idea.
    >
    >Ever heard of 'blowback'?
    >

    Is that something to do with the fart tax? <grin>

    [real definition snipped]

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign
    that the conspiracy is working.
    Enkidu, Sep 6, 2003
    #11
  12. Peter

    Patrick Bold Guest

    "steve" <> wrote in message
    news:c596b.4001$...
    > T.N.O allegedly said:
    >
    > > "Olson Johnson" wrote
    > >> Do you think Sesame St was wrong ?

    > >
    > > no... ffs, I was just laughing at it, whats with all the

    questions...
    > > freak.

    >
    > He's exploring the reason for your laughter.
    >
    > Co-operation is a way of life to many....and not restricted to

    memories of
    > Sesame St.
    >


    True, but then we're talking about IBM's marketing scheme, aren't we?
    Lighten up. I mean, seriously, do you actually think IBM believes that
    crap?!
    Patrick Bold, Sep 6, 2003
    #12
  13. Peter

    Lennier Guest

    On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:49:12 -0400, Patrick Bold wrote:

    > Linux-heads who find themselves
    > gushing over these ads would do well to ask themselves, "How open is the
    > future really going to be for kids (and adults and businesses and
    > governments) who can no more afford to pay IBM's service fees for good
    > software than they can Microsoft's licensing fees?"


    No fees need be paid to IBM - as Linux is freely downloadable from the WWW
    - as is all it's source code.

    Moreover, there are 1000s of programmes that are freely downloadable from
    the WWW - complete with all their source code.

    You would only ever have to pay a service fee if you chose to subscribe to
    an optional service contract.

    Lennier
    Lennier, Sep 6, 2003
    #13
  14. Peter

    Lennier Guest

    On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 11:08:05 +1200, T.N.O wrote:

    >> Do you think Sesame St was wrong ?

    >
    > no... ffs, I was just laughing at it, whats with all the questions...
    > freak.


    The response of someone who had no better response to make...

    Lennier
    Lennier, Sep 6, 2003
    #14
  15. Peter

    Evil Bastard Guest

    On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 20:30:38 -0400, Patrick Bold wrote:

    > True, but then we're talking about IBM's marketing scheme, aren't we?
    > Lighten up. I mean, seriously, do you actually think IBM believes that
    > crap?!


    They might not believe it for the same reasons that the free/open software
    community does, but it's clearly in their interests to support FOSS.

    The huge difference between IBM and M$ (apart from the fact that IBM is
    way higher on the F500) is that IBM is fully tooled up to ship iron, while
    M$ just sells software, which makes M$ products forever the tenant on
    someone else's hardware.

    Since IBM can pull its margins from hardware, it is well served by hawking
    FOSS - they still make their money. Microsoft on the other hand is
    mortally threatened by FOSS.

    EB
    Evil Bastard, Sep 6, 2003
    #15
  16. "Patrick Bold" <> wrote in message
    news:3f57da97$...

    > True, but then we're talking about IBM's marketing scheme, aren't we?
    > Lighten up. I mean, seriously, do you actually think IBM believes that
    > crap?!
    >
    >

    Why wouldn't they ?
    It has been so successful that they have been sued for billions for
    believing in it.
    Olson Johnson, Sep 6, 2003
    #16
  17. Peter

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 13:11:55 +1200, Evil Bastard
    <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote:

    >On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 20:30:38 -0400, Patrick Bold wrote:
    >
    >> True, but then we're talking about IBM's marketing scheme, aren't we?
    >> Lighten up. I mean, seriously, do you actually think IBM believes that
    >> crap?!

    >
    >They might not believe it for the same reasons that the free/open software
    >community does, but it's clearly in their interests to support FOSS.
    >
    >The huge difference between IBM and M$ (apart from the fact that IBM is
    >way higher on the F500) is that IBM is fully tooled up to ship iron, while
    >M$ just sells software, which makes M$ products forever the tenant on
    >someone else's hardware.
    >
    >Since IBM can pull its margins from hardware, it is well served by hawking
    >FOSS - they still make their money. Microsoft on the other hand is
    >mortally threatened by FOSS.
    >

    There was serious talk 5+ years ago that IBM would give away their
    hardware. They used to, and probably still do, make more money from
    their software than their hardware.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign
    that the conspiracy is working.
    Enkidu, Sep 6, 2003
    #17
  18. Peter

    steve Guest

    T.N.O allegedly said:

    > "steve" wrote
    >> > co-operation... heh

    >>
    >> You need to re-learn it, I guess.

    >
    > Why do you say that? have I seemed to be non-co-operative?
    >
    >> People have always known that co-operation is essential for survival.

    >
    > Well, actually, if you can do everything yourself well enough to survive,
    > then it isn't, but thats not a likely senario is it :)
    >
    >> Sharing is good. It works.

    >
    > yes it is... but sharing can have prices put on it, hence why barter was
    > invented like a million years ago...


    Absolutely.

    Open source isn't really free. The "price" for using the work of others is
    that you must share your own.

    In that sense, it is pure barter.
    steve, Sep 6, 2003
    #18
  19. Peter

    steve Guest

    T.N.O allegedly said:

    > "steve" wrote
    >> >> Do you think Sesame St was wrong ?
    >> >
    >> > no... ffs, I was just laughing at it, whats with all the questions...
    >> > freak.

    >>
    >> He's exploring the reason for your laughter.
    >>
    >> Co-operation is a way of life to many....and not restricted to memories
    >> of Sesame St.

    >
    > Well I laughed at your post to, could it be that I am simply easily
    > amused, or maybe I'm crazy... maybe I'm jolly(no jokes those that know me
    > :)...
    >
    > Scarily, I laughed at my own post when I wrote it, maybe I am crazy.
    > heh...
    >
    > ahem.


    :)

    OK....
    steve, Sep 6, 2003
    #19
  20. Peter

    Patrick Bold Guest

    "Evil Bastard" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
    news:pan.2003.09.06.01.11.55.367150@127.0.0.1...
    > On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 20:30:38 -0400, Patrick Bold wrote:
    >
    > > True, but then we're talking about IBM's marketing scheme, aren't

    we?
    > > Lighten up. I mean, seriously, do you actually think IBM believes

    that
    > > crap?!

    >
    > They might not believe it for the same reasons that the free/open

    software
    > community does, but it's clearly in their interests to support FOSS.
    >
    > The huge difference between IBM and M$ (apart from the fact that IBM

    is
    > way higher on the F500) is that IBM is fully tooled up to ship iron,

    while
    > M$ just sells software, which makes M$ products forever the tenant on
    > someone else's hardware.
    >
    > Since IBM can pull its margins from hardware, it is well served by

    hawking
    > FOSS - they still make their money. Microsoft on the other hand is
    > mortally threatened by FOSS.
    >


    You are terribly naiive and badly informed. Consider this:

    http://www.nytimes.com/cnet/CNET_2100-1011_3-5072077.html

    "IBM, perhaps better known for its hardware and software, has been a
    leader in landing large-scale IT services contracts. Last year, it
    garnered the highest number of IT infrastructure outsourcing deals worth
    $1 billion or more, according to research company Gartner."

    You're right, it's clearly in the interest of IBM to support open-source
    software alternatives to Microsoft. But only to the extent that there is
    a lucrative IBM service contract involved. Lots of little Linux wannabes
    are betting on IBM's strategy to pay off for them as well in the form
    of new business -- and that's fine. But masking one's ambitions in this
    regard as some kind of anti-monopoly crusade is pathetic -- at the very
    least you need a less conspicuous monopolist for a partner than IBM.
    Patrick Bold, Sep 6, 2003
    #20
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