Re: Clears News Feed is stuffed up Big Time

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Ralph Fox, Sep 2, 2008.

  1. Ralph Fox

    Ralph Fox Guest

    On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:22:13 +1200, in message <>,
    Brian Mathews wrote:

    >
    >
    > Went on the Forte Agent group and last post is the 20th..
    >
    > AIOE Show some 300 plus Items from that date to today.



    Confirmed. No new headers in alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent

    I wonder whether Clear/Paradise are running rotating blackouts,
    to keep within their monthly data cap with Giganews.


    --
    Cheers,
    Ralph

    "There is only one boss, the customer. And he can fire everybody in
    the company from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money
    somewhere else." -- Sam Walton
    Ralph Fox, Sep 2, 2008
    #1
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  2. Ralph Fox

    Dave Taylor Guest

    OZZY Boy <> wrote in
    news:eek::

    > I don't think its Giganews as its way way out of date and has not been
    > updated for some years as far as the group listing is concerned.


    I figured that that would be updated all the time for a commercial service.
    I suggest you look into a refresh of groups listed.

    --
    Ciao, Dave
    Dave Taylor, Sep 3, 2008
    #2
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  3. Ralph Fox

    Dave Taylor Guest

    OZZY Boy <> wrote in
    news::

    >>> I don't think its Giganews as its way way out of date and has not
    >>> been updated for some years as far as the group listing is
    >>> concerned.

    >>
    >>I figured that that would be updated all the time for a commercial
    >>service. I suggest you look into a refresh of groups listed.

    >
    >
    >
    > Been there done all that..
    >
    >
    >
    > Just done a check on Clear and Albasani
    >
    >
    > Got 312 new groups on Albasani and Clear did not even attempt to
    > get any new groups at all.


    I thought you were saying Giganews was out of date?

    We all know Clear's news server sucks.

    --
    Ciao, Dave
    Dave Taylor, Sep 4, 2008
    #3
  4. Ralph Fox

    Ralph Fox Guest

    On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 16:17:02 +1200, in message <>,
    OZZY Boy wrote:

    > On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 07:08:35 +1200, Ralph Fox <> wrote:
    >
    > >On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:22:13 +1200, in message <>,
    > >Brian Mathews wrote:
    > >
    > >>
    > >> Went on the Forte Agent group and last post is the 20th..

    ^^^^^^^^^

    > >> AIOE Show some 300 plus Items from that date to today.

    > >
    > >
    > >Confirmed. No new headers in alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    > >I wonder whether Clear/Paradise are running rotating blackouts,
    > >to keep within their monthly data cap with Giganews.

    >
    >
    > I don't think its Giganews as its way way out of date and has not been updated for some years as far
    > as the group listing is concerned.



    We were talking about why there are no new headers in some groups,
    not about the list of newsgroups. You are now talking about a
    different subject.

    Clear have told some users that their news server has a monthly
    international data cap. This has been posted several times in
    this newsgroup. If you look at the headers, the Clear news server's
    international peer is Giganews for messages in most newsgroups.


    --
    Cheers,
    Ralph
    Ralph Fox, Sep 4, 2008
    #4
  5. Ralph Fox

    Ralph Fox Guest

    On 3 Sep 2008 20:10:18 +1200, in message <>,
    Carnations wrote:

    > On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 07:08:35 +1200, Ralph Fox wrote:
    >
    > > I wonder whether Clear/Paradise are running rotating blackouts, to keep
    > > within their monthly data cap with Giganews.

    >
    > I can't see how that would work, because as soon as they pull new posts
    > for that NG it will pull all the new posts since the last successful pull.
    >
    > Wouldn't it?



    My newsreader has an optional setting to limit the number of new posts pulled
    for a NG. I expect Clear's server may do the same.


    --
    Cheers,
    Ralph
    Ralph Fox, Sep 4, 2008
    #5
  6. Ralph Fox

    Ralph Fox Guest

    On 4 Sep 2008 23:58:58 +1200, in message <>,
    Carnations wrote:

    > On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:29:52 +1200, Ralph Fox wrote:
    >
    > > My newsreader has an optional setting to limit the number of new posts
    > > pulled for a NG. I expect Clear's server may do the same.

    >
    > Yes, but next time you go to that NG you'd pull the next consecutive set
    > of headers wouldn't you?


    If by "next" you mean "next later", then yes.
    If by "next" you mean "next earlier", then no.


    If I configure it for a max of 500 messages, then it won't go back
    more than 500 messages before the latest message. Next time I go
    back to that NG there may be later messages and it will get those
    (all of them, provided there are no more than 500). But it still
    won't go back to more than 500 messages before the latest message.


    --
    Cheers,
    Ralph
    Ralph Fox, Sep 6, 2008
    #6
  7. Ralph Fox

    Ralph Fox Guest

    On 6 Sep 2008 19:59:17 +1200, in message <>,
    Carnations wrote:

    > On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 17:14:53 +1200, Ralph Fox wrote:
    >
    > > On 4 Sep 2008 23:58:58 +1200, in message
    > > <>, Carnations wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:29:52 +1200, Ralph Fox wrote:
    > >>
    > >> > My newsreader has an optional setting to limit the number of new
    > >> > posts pulled for a NG. I expect Clear's server may do the same.
    > >>
    > >> Yes, but next time you go to that NG you'd pull the next consecutive
    > >> set of headers wouldn't you?

    > >
    > > If by "next" you mean "next later", then yes. If by "next" you mean
    > > "next earlier", then no.
    > >
    > >
    > > If I configure it for a max of 500 messages, then it won't go back more
    > > than 500 messages before the latest message. Next time I go back to
    > > that NG there may be later messages and it will get those (all of them,
    > > provided there are no more than 500). But it still won't go back to
    > > more than 500 messages before the latest message.

    >
    > I mean "next" as in the headers subsequent to the last message
    > successfully pulled.



    So you should now understand how it works.
    1. The last successful pull was message 468321.
    2. The server now has messages up to 472573.
    3. I pull headers using a max of 500. I get headers 472074 through 472573.
    Headers 468321 through 472073 are skipped.
    4. The last successful pull is now 472573.
    5. The next time I go to that NG, I pull headers subsequent to 472573.

    To review your questions

    |   I can't see how that would work, because as soon as they pull new posts
    |   for that NG it will pull all the new posts since the last successful pull.

    It works because it never pulls the headers 468321 through 472073.

    |   Yes, but next time you go to that NG you'd pull the next consecutive set
    |   of headers wouldn't you?

    The next consecutive headers are after 472573.
    They do not include 468321 through 472073.


    --
    Cheers,
    Ralph
    Ralph Fox, Sep 7, 2008
    #7
  8. Ralph Fox

    Ralph Fox Guest

    On 8 Sep 2008 00:25:02 +1200, in message <>,
    Carnations wrote:

    > On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 18:12:30 +1200, Ralph Fox wrote:
    >
    > > The next consecutive headers are after 472573. They do not include
    > > 468321 through 472073.

    >
    > No - incorrect.
    >
    > The next consecutive articles to download are those subsequent to the
    > last ones downloaded, not to any that were merely ignored on the previous
    > occasion.



    The Clear news server has started receiving headers in auorfa again
    (the Forte Agent group which the OP mentioned).

    There is a big gap in headers between 20 August and 7 September.
    The Clear news server has _not_ downloaded all headers subsequent
    to 20 August. The upstream is Giganews, whose retention is well
    over a year - it goes back well before 20 August 2008, so upstream
    retention is not the cause of he gap.

    Reality trumps, every time.


    > At least that is what it is if a news feed is being pulled for
    > a server.
    >
    > But if you're pulling a sample of headers using an NNTP client, you can
    > choose what to do for the rest - either mark them all read, or to do
    > nothing and pull them down next time.



    If Clear's is a NNTP pull feed (you were the one who said pull),
    it can do whatever an NNTP client can do.

    If it is a push feed, how far back the catch-up goes is controlled
    at the upstream end (Giganews). They can limit it if the peering
    arrangement says so.


    --
    Cheers,
    Ralph
    Ralph Fox, Sep 11, 2008
    #8
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