Re: Camera JPEG engines

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Rob, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. Rob

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 08:31:27 -0800, Savageduck
    <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    >On 2012-11-24 06:05:44 -0800, PeterN <> said:
    >>>

    >>
    >> Which is a valid assumption in the absence of skewing information. But
    >> that s not the point. When I travel, WiFi is NOT one of my criteria for
    >> selection of a flight. In my order, schedule, non-stop, travel comfort,
    >> cost. With the exceptions of the now defunct Grand Air, and Concorde,
    >> the best meals I have on a flight is when I bring my own food.

    >
    >For the air travel I have engaged in, my priorities have been schedule,
    >minimizing connections, comfort, & cost (sometimes comfort and value
    >overrode cost). Connectivity in flight has never been a priority for
    >me, and I am a bandwidth using fool. I enjoy the break.
    >
    >As far as meals go some of the best have been on a 1972 BA coach flight
    >from JFK to LHR, a 1981 Swissair coach flight into Zurich, and the
    >consistently very good KLM Business Class offerings (my current
    >preferred international carrier, they have no first class and I
    >understand their coach is quite acceptable). In 12 KLM fights I have
    >always enjoyed superb meals.
    >
    >Then we have the dismal, inexcusably awful meals. A 1985 United Shuttle
    >flight from D.C. to La Guardia, a 2005 Alaska Vancouver to SFO flight,
    >a 2005 SFO-JFK and return on United, and a 2009 Detroit-SFO Delta. The
    >last two were decidedly bad because they were business class offerings.


    Our best meal on an airplane was on Aer Lingus from Chicago to Shannon
    (Ireland). There was one stop in Montreal, and dinner was served
    after that stop. The food was better than most, if not all, of the
    meals we had in Ireland on that trip. That was in 1969.

    In 1983, we again flew Aer Lingus to Shannon. I wouldn't say that
    meal was the worst airline meal we've had, but it was your basic,
    average, airline fare. This time, though, the food was better in
    Ireland. I'm partial to smoked salmon, and no smoked salmon in the US
    comes close to what we had in a rather ordinary seeming restaurant in
    Waterford.








    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Nov 24, 2012
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  2. Rob

    nospam Guest

    In article <50b0d49b$0$10848$-secrets.com>, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    > >>>> When did
    > >>>> apple start allowing Flash on the iPad?
    > >>>> <http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/>
    > >>>> Of course the article could not possibly be a phoney.
    > >>>> Sheesh!
    > >>>
    > >>> learn to read before spewing stupid comments.
    > >>>
    > >>> nowhere did the article i quoted nor did i say anything about ipads
    > >>> running flash.
    > >>>
    > >>> do you just make this stuff up or what?
    > >>
    > >> Uh Huh!

    > >
    > > at least you admit you make it up.

    >
    > read you omitted post, to which I responded. We all know you are a troll
    > and I am playing with you.


    why don't *you* read it first?

    *nowhere* did i say ipads run flash, nor did the article i quoted.

    you are the troll, and one who is lying about what i say.
    nospam, Nov 24, 2012
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  3. Rob

    nospam Guest

    In article <50b0d454$0$10848$-secrets.com>, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    > I would hardly expect them to say sales are shit. I have no idea how
    > good, or bad their service is, not how much it costs. I remember making
    > telephone calls using Aitfone. It was expensive, with terrible connectons.


    things have come a long, long way since airfone.

    gogo is pretty good. it's very popular, so on occasion it can be a bit
    slow if half the plane is trying to watch youtube, but they're working
    to increase bandwidth to the planes. it's more than adequate for web
    surfing and email.

    > When I travel, WiFi is NOT one of my criteria for
    > selection of a flight.


    that's fine. for other people it is. you do realize what you like is
    not what the rest of the world wants, right?

    > In my order, schedule, non-stop, travel comfort,
    > cost. With the exceptions of the now defunct Grand Air, and Concorde,
    > the best meals I have on a flight is when I bring my own food.


    then you fly on crappy airlines too. airline food up front can be quite
    good, although it's not like it used to be. the wine quality, however,
    has gone down on most domestic flights, although alaska has wine and
    beer from local wineries and breweries, which are generally pretty
    good.

    > BTW what is the actual percentage? Is a 10% failure rate "very likely?"


    out of all the flights i've been on with gogo (hundreds), i can only
    recall two instances where it didn't work. one where it was working but
    the flight crew said it wasn't and then they shut it off, and another
    where there was a gogo card in the seat pocket but no signal. that's an
    extremely low failure rate.

    i've experienced more mechanicals than gogo failures. those can be much
    more of a hassle.

    > As stated above,the purpose of any travel is to get some place, within a
    > certain time frame. WiFi is NOT a driving force. Nor is it for most
    > business travelers. (At least the ones who travel to accomplish
    > something, not play games on OPM.


    how is it you know what most business travelers want?

    a lot of people like to travel in comfort and/or get work done, which
    is why some will *pay* for f/j rather than chance an upgrade.

    business travelers are almost always on their laptops, with or without
    wifi, and when there's wifi they can communicate with the rest of the
    company which is usually very important. they don't normally play
    games, but even ceos are entitled to relax a bit now and then.

    > >> As to cost, I am not a wealthy as you. Therefore, if I had to pay $20
    > >> for a gallon of gas, for me it would be the same as no gas being
    > >> available. (I fully expect you will not understand that analogy.)

    > >
    > > more idiocy.

    > Just carrying your point to its dry conclusion.


    i.e., trolling. that's all you do.
    nospam, Nov 24, 2012
  4. Rob

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, tony cooper
    <> wrote:

    > >> Allegiant Orlando to Rockford (non-stop) is $89 plus $35 for
    > >> the first bag checked. According to this:
    > >> http://tinyurl.com/brjazua , the least expensive ticket Orlando to
    > >> Chicago is $229 with United *and* United charges $25 for the first
    > >> bag. Then, there'd be the transportation charges to Rockford.

    > >
    > >first of all, that doesn't mean much. prices and availability change
    > >all the time, and it even changed from when you posted to now.
    > >
    > >i'm seeing $218 on ua (not $229) and $158 on nk. i'm also finding a lot
    > >of availability for $157 for jan 10-15th, 2013, as well as a few dates
    > >further out.

    >
    > "nk" is Spirit...one of the airlines you described earlier as a
    > cheap-ass airline with extra charges.


    true, i forgot spirit is a cheap-ass airline. so $218 for the majors,
    as of yesterday and that could change at any time.

    > This discussion started over a comment I made about my wife using
    > Allegiant to fly to Rockford for a funeral. You've now brought up
    > ticket prices over a month away. You expect the deceased to be put on
    > ice until ticket prices go down?


    that's what bereavement fares are for, which a gds won't show you. or
    use miles, which is one of the better uses for miles, actually.

    walk-up fares are never the cheapest. a funeral is an edge case.

    > >however, for anything in or near the last half of december, the fares
    > >go up a *lot*. for the dates you picked, a lot of the cheapest fare
    > >buckets are already 0.

    >
    > I didn't pick a date. I just went to a Google and used the fares that
    > came up.


    in other words, it's not a valid comparison of fares. why am i not
    surprised.

    if you are going to compare fares on different airlines you need to
    compare the *same* fare buckets.

    you don't compare mid-level fares on one to super-discounted on another.
    nospam, Nov 24, 2012
  5. Rob

    nospam Guest

    In article <50b0d4dd$0$10848$-secrets.com>, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    > >> He can recharge his iPad, or laptop, while waiting for the connecting
    > >> flight.

    > >
    > > don't need to.

    >
    > then why do you care about in=flight outlets?


    learn to read. i don't need to recharge the ipad or laptop.

    if there's an outlet on board i use it, but if not that's ok too.
    nospam, Nov 24, 2012
  6. Rob

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 09:43:48 -0800, nospam <>
    wrote:

    >> This discussion started over a comment I made about my wife using
    >> Allegiant to fly to Rockford for a funeral. You've now brought up
    >> ticket prices over a month away. You expect the deceased to be put on
    >> ice until ticket prices go down?

    >
    >that's what bereavement fares are for, which a gds won't show you. or
    >use miles, which is one of the better uses for miles, actually.


    More bullshit from you. You ever tried to get a bereavement fare?
    See:
    http://www.bankrate.com/finance/personal-finance/airlines-offer-bereavement-fares.aspx

    >walk-up fares are never the cheapest. a funeral is an edge case.


    Generally, a person has a week's notice unless the deceased is Jewish.
    It's not a "walk-up" situation. Not everyone has miles credit,
    either.

    And, just for the record, if my wife wanted to visit relatives in
    Rockford in the future, she'd want to use Allegiance. It's the most
    convenient choice from here to there.

    She's not interested in looking at the top of the clouds from a
    window, she doesn't have anything to plug into a power point, she had
    no problem with the seating on her previous flight, she'd rather buy a
    soft drink if she wants one than fight the hassle of ORL, she travels
    light, and she doesn't want to drive or take a bus from O'Hare to
    Rockford.

    This is just another example of your ridiculous notion that everyone
    else should do things the way you do or are in the same situation you
    are and therefore should be criticized for doing it differently.
    Also, another example of you ignoring the facts of a post and
    blabbering on about things that have no bearing on the post.

    >> >however, for anything in or near the last half of december, the fares
    >> >go up a *lot*. for the dates you picked, a lot of the cheapest fare
    >> >buckets are already 0.

    >>
    >> I didn't pick a date. I just went to a Google and used the fares that
    >> came up.

    >
    >in other words, it's not a valid comparison of fares. why am i not
    >surprised.


    Of course it's valid. It's valid for the day that I provided the
    link. If I wanted to book a flight on that day, that's the fair fare
    comparison. All the fares were comparable for the date used.

    >if you are going to compare fares on different airlines you need to
    >compare the *same* fare buckets.


    All the figures were current for that day.

    Just for shits & giggles, I compared Allegiant and Delta for March
    6th. Allegiant is $98.30 and Delta is $119.00. Allegiant charges $35
    for a checked bag, Delta $25.00.

    However, Delta's flights are not direct and the travel time is either
    4 hrs and 20 min or 5 hrs and 13 min. (depending on the flight) and
    then add a couple of hours for arrangement and ground travel to
    Rockford from O'Hare. Also, add the price of a rental car or shuttle
    bus.

    Allegiant's travel time is under 3 hrs and no additional ground travel
    time or cost.

    I'd still pick Allegiant.









    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Nov 24, 2012
  7. Rob

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 09:43:43 -0800, nospam <>
    wrote:

    >business travelers are almost always on their laptops, with or without
    >wifi, and when there's wifi they can communicate with the rest of the
    >company which is usually very important. they don't normally play
    >games, but even ceos are entitled to relax a bit now and then.


    I was a business traveler for decades. I can't recall how being
    out-of-touch with anyone for three hours or so was ever a problem.
    Most of what is done on the laptop by a business traveler in-flight is
    doesn't require wifi. The wifi stuff can be done in the Departure
    lounge.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Nov 24, 2012
  8. Rob

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, tony cooper
    <> wrote:

    > >business travelers are almost always on their laptops, with or without
    > >wifi, and when there's wifi they can communicate with the rest of the
    > >company which is usually very important. they don't normally play
    > >games, but even ceos are entitled to relax a bit now and then.

    >
    > I was a business traveler for decades. I can't recall how being
    > out-of-touch with anyone for three hours or so was ever a problem.


    you're out of touch with modern society (no surprise there).

    today, people want to be connected 24/7. they carry smartphones in
    their pockets that are more powerful than the computers they used to
    have on their desks and are online all the time. they complain when 3g
    isn't fast enough because it's overloaded (think about why it might be
    overloaded). they get notified on emails, news events and much more, as
    it happens. those with traditional cellphones won't go anywhere without
    one either, even if it's 10 minutes to the grocery store.

    in other words, it's nothing like how things were 'decades' ago.

    > Most of what is done on the laptop by a business traveler in-flight is
    > doesn't require wifi.


    not necessarily, and you have no idea what a business traveler today
    needs to do anyway. a lot of companies only exist in cyberspace. there
    is no physical corporate headquarters. they *have* to be online to
    work.

    > The wifi stuff can be done in the Departure
    > lounge.


    what 'wifi stuff' is that?

    sometimes it might, but many times it has to be done asap and cannot
    wait until the arrival lounge.
    nospam, Nov 24, 2012
  9. Rob

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, tony cooper
    <> wrote:

    > >> This discussion started over a comment I made about my wife using
    > >> Allegiant to fly to Rockford for a funeral. You've now brought up
    > >> ticket prices over a month away. You expect the deceased to be put on
    > >> ice until ticket prices go down?

    > >
    > >that's what bereavement fares are for, which a gds won't show you. or
    > >use miles, which is one of the better uses for miles, actually.

    >
    > More bullshit from you. You ever tried to get a bereavement fare?


    yes i have, and it was cheaper than anything else i could get.

    > See:
    >
    > http://www.bankrate.com/finance/personal-finance/airlines-offer-bereavement-fa
    > res.aspx
    >
    > >walk-up fares are never the cheapest. a funeral is an edge case.

    >
    > Generally, a person has a week's notice unless the deceased is Jewish.
    > It's not a "walk-up" situation.



    anything within a couple of days is considered a walk-up fare. 1 week
    is usually the shortest advance fare but there are sometimes 3 day
    ones.

    however, for a funeral, people tend to want to leave as soon as they
    can to be with family. they're not going to want to wait 3 days, let
    alone a week, to get a better fare. in other words, it's a walk-up
    fare.

    not that it matters since the vast majority of airline tickets are
    advance purchases. it's sad when someone must fly for a funeral, but
    the reality is they're edge cases for the airlines.

    > Not everyone has miles credit,
    > either.


    a lot of people have miles. it's so incredibly easy to get miles these
    days *without* flying that there's no excuse not to. sign up for a
    credit card, they're up to 35-40k bonus just for signing up. a couple
    of years ago, chase was offering 100k miles for a card. or buy a lot of
    pudding.

    > And, just for the record, if my wife wanted to visit relatives in
    > Rockford in the future, she'd want to use Allegiance. It's the most
    > convenient choice from here to there.


    that's fine. however, she's not the only person in the world who flies
    and sfb & rfd aren't the only two airports in the world either.

    it's also allegiant air, not allegiance. it helps to have the name
    correct.

    > She's not interested in looking at the top of the clouds from a
    > window, she doesn't have anything to plug into a power point, she had
    > no problem with the seating on her previous flight, she'd rather buy a
    > soft drink if she wants one than fight the hassle of ORL, she travels
    > light, and she doesn't want to drive or take a bus from O'Hare to
    > Rockford.
    >
    > This is just another example of your ridiculous notion that everyone
    > else should do things the way you do or are in the same situation you
    > are and therefore should be criticized for doing it differently.
    > Also, another example of you ignoring the facts of a post and
    > blabbering on about things that have no bearing on the post.


    actually, it's another example of *your* ridiculous notion that
    everyone else should do things the way your wife did.

    most people don't want to be nickeled and dimed, which is why there are
    so few airlines that do it. it's also not a sustainable business model
    since their costs aren't dramatically less than the majors.

    sfb-rfd is not a major route and the majors are happy to let someone
    else fly them with a la carte fares.

    allegiant can't compete with the majors on routes such as jfk-lax &
    jfk-sfo. they have a very limited number of routes.

    however, for the cheapskates on leisure routes in cities they serve,
    it's an option.

    > >> >however, for anything in or near the last half of december, the fares
    > >> >go up a *lot*. for the dates you picked, a lot of the cheapest fare
    > >> >buckets are already 0.
    > >>
    > >> I didn't pick a date. I just went to a Google and used the fares that
    > >> came up.

    > >
    > >in other words, it's not a valid comparison of fares. why am i not
    > >surprised.

    >
    > Of course it's valid. It's valid for the day that I provided the
    > link. If I wanted to book a flight on that day, that's the fair fare
    > comparison. All the fares were comparable for the date used.


    it's not valid.

    comparing different fare buckets is bogus. simple concept.

    if you want to compare different buckets then why not compare full y on
    allegiant (most expensive) versus t on delta or o on aa (most
    discounted). if what you're suggesting is valid, then that comparison
    is also valid. works both ways.

    airline fares are not simple. in fact, they're incredibly complex.

    > >if you are going to compare fares on different airlines you need to
    > >compare the *same* fare buckets.

    >
    > All the figures were current for that day.


    so what?

    ua's cheapest fare bucket for that day was 0ed out. that means their
    cheapest fare was *gone*. sold out. not available. what's left are
    higher priced buckets.

    a flight on a different day might have a better fare, or you could wait
    for yield management to release seats in the lower bucket. that won't
    work for a funeral but it can easily work for a typical flyer.

    > Just for shits & giggles, I compared Allegiant and Delta for March
    > 6th. Allegiant is $98.30 and Delta is $119.00. Allegiant charges $35
    > for a checked bag, Delta $25.00.


    so almost the same, assuming you check bags, which not everyone does,
    and some get that perk for free anyway. then add in the fees for
    checking in, printing boarding passes, a drink or two, etc, and it's
    not as cheap as it may seem.

    that's how airlines are trying to fool naive customers. they offer a
    lowball price and then tack on extras, in the hopes they don't notice
    the total might be higher.

    rental car companies are starting to do it too. i priced a rental car
    for $14 a day last week. that's *really* cheap, except that it didn't
    include all sorts of fees. by the time all that crap was added in (all
    of it required), it was something like $40 a day, which is typical for
    a daily rental and was consistent with other rental companies that just
    said $40 up front.

    > However, Delta's flights are not direct and the travel time is either
    > 4 hrs and 20 min or 5 hrs and 13 min. (depending on the flight) and
    > then add a couple of hours for arrangement and ground travel to
    > Rockford from O'Hare. Also, add the price of a rental car or shuttle
    > bus.


    for *you*.

    for others, delta could be the more convenient flight. or maybe another
    airline.

    > Allegiant's travel time is under 3 hrs and no additional ground travel
    > time or cost.
    >
    > I'd still pick Allegiant.


    good. they need more people like you.
    nospam, Nov 24, 2012
  10. Rob

    PeterN Guest

    On 11/24/2012 10:20 AM, tony cooper wrote:
    > On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 09:05:44 -0500, PeterN
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Which is a valid assumption in the absence of skewing information. But
    >> that s not the point. When I travel, WiFi is NOT one of my criteria for
    >> selection of a flight. In my order, schedule, non-stop, travel comfort,
    >> cost.

    >
    > Yet, you criticized the choice of Allegiant when the choice was made
    > for those reasons plus the location of the airport. What a phoney.
    >
    >> With the exceptions of the now defunct Grand Air, and Concorde,
    >> the best meals I have on a flight is when I bring my own food.

    >
    > Ahh...you are one of those cheese-eating farters who bring their own
    > lunch box on board.
    >
    >


    Huh!

    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Nov 25, 2012
  11. Rob

    PeterN Guest

    On 11/24/2012 11:31 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2012-11-24 06:05:44 -0800, PeterN <> said:
    >>>

    >>
    >> Which is a valid assumption in the absence of skewing information. But
    >> that s not the point. When I travel, WiFi is NOT one of my criteria
    >> for selection of a flight. In my order, schedule, non-stop, travel
    >> comfort, cost. With the exceptions of the now defunct Grand Air, and
    >> Concorde, the best meals I have on a flight is when I bring my own food.

    >
    > For the air travel I have engaged in, my priorities have been schedule,
    > minimizing connections, comfort, & cost (sometimes comfort and value
    > overrode cost). Connectivity in flight has never been a priority for me,
    > and I am a bandwidth using fool. I enjoy the break.
    >
    > As far as meals go some of the best have been on a 1972 BA coach flight
    > from JFK to LHR, a 1981 Swissair coach flight into Zurich, and the
    > consistently very good KLM Business Class offerings (my current
    > preferred international carrier, they have no first class and I
    > understand their coach is quite acceptable). In 12 KLM fights I have
    > always enjoyed superb meals.
    >
    > Then we have the dismal, inexcusably awful meals. A 1985 United Shuttle
    > flight from D.C. to La Guardia, a 2005 Alaska Vancouver to SFO flight, a
    > 2005 SFO-JFK and return on United, and a 2009 Detroit-SFO Delta. The
    > last two were decidedly bad because they were business class offerings.
    >
    >


    Horses for courses. But, unlike others here, I would never try to impose
    my preferences on you, and I doubt you would try to impose your
    preferences on me. (Except of course if you were traveling on my
    business, at my expense.)

    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Nov 25, 2012
  12. Rob

    PeterN Guest

    On 11/24/2012 11:40 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2012-11-24 08:31:27 -0800, Savageduck
    > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> said:
    >
    >> On 2012-11-24 06:05:44 -0800, PeterN <> said:
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Which is a valid assumption in the absence of skewing information.
    >>> But that s not the point. When I travel, WiFi is NOT one of my
    >>> criteria for selection of a flight. In my order, schedule, non-stop,
    >>> travel comfort, cost. With the exceptions of the now defunct Grand
    >>> Air, and Concorde, the best meals I have on a flight is when I bring
    >>> my own food.

    >>
    >> For the air travel I have engaged in, my priorities have been
    >> schedule, minimizing connections, comfort, & cost (sometimes comfort
    >> and value overrode cost). Connectivity in flight has never been a
    >> priority for me, and I am a bandwidth using fool. I enjoy the break.
    >>
    >> As far as meals go some of the best have been on a 1972 BA coach
    >> flight from JFK to LHR, a 1981 Swissair coach flight into Zurich, and
    >> the consistently very good KLM Business Class offerings (my current
    >> preferred international carrier, they have no first class and I
    >> understand their coach is quite acceptable). In 12 KLM fights I have
    >> always enjoyed superb meals.
    >>
    >> Then we have the dismal, inexcusably awful meals. A 1985 United
    >> Shuttle flight from D.C. to La Guardia, a 2005 Alaska Vancouver to SFO
    >> flight, a 2005 SFO-JFK and return on United, and a 2009 Detroit-SFO
    >> Delta. The last two were decidedly bad because they were business
    >> class offerings.

    >
    > I forgot to mention the very worst, a 1983 PanAm flight from
    > Johannesburg to JFK with a 90 minute stop in Monrovia. I believe this
    > had to be one of the original 747's. This plane seemed to be falling
    > apart in midair. Interior panels were loose and flapping about and it
    > was not pleasant to experience shaking and rattling for about 16 hours
    > while being fed bad cafeteria food.
    >


    Generally I found the worst to be the blessedly defunct, Eastern.
    I used to fly between FL and NY about once every two months. In those
    days NorthEast was about the best. In those days, AA and Delta were
    fairly decent. But, it seemed all my horror stories happened on Eastern.
    Of course I cannot forget the time KLM lost my luggage between Amsterdam
    and Zurich, a non-stop flight.

    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Nov 25, 2012
  13. Rob

    PeterN Guest

    On 11/24/2012 12:26 PM, tony cooper wrote:

    <snip>

    > In 1983, we again flew Aer Lingus to Shannon. I wouldn't say that
    > meal was the worst airline meal we've had, but it was your basic,
    > average, airline fare. This time, though, the food was better in
    > Ireland. I'm partial to smoked salmon, and no smoked salmon in the US
    > comes close to what we had in a rather ordinary seeming restaurant in
    > Waterford.
    >

    Can you even get decent smoked salmon in Orlando?


    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Nov 25, 2012
  14. Rob

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 19:16:22 -0500, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    >On 11/24/2012 10:20 AM, tony cooper wrote:
    >> On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 09:05:44 -0500, PeterN
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Which is a valid assumption in the absence of skewing information. But
    >>> that s not the point. When I travel, WiFi is NOT one of my criteria for
    >>> selection of a flight. In my order, schedule, non-stop, travel comfort,
    >>> cost.

    >>
    >> Yet, you criticized the choice of Allegiant when the choice was made
    >> for those reasons plus the location of the airport. What a phoney.
    >>
    >>> With the exceptions of the now defunct Grand Air, and Concorde,
    >>> the best meals I have on a flight is when I bring my own food.

    >>
    >> Ahh...you are one of those cheese-eating farters who bring their own
    >> lunch box on board.

    >Huh!


    Did I get some attributions mixed up? I thought nohelp was still
    responding. Sorry, Peter. I should have noticed the capitalization.





    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Nov 25, 2012
  15. Rob

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 19:27:39 -0500, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    >On 11/24/2012 12:26 PM, tony cooper wrote:
    >
    ><snip>
    >
    >> In 1983, we again flew Aer Lingus to Shannon. I wouldn't say that
    >> meal was the worst airline meal we've had, but it was your basic,
    >> average, airline fare. This time, though, the food was better in
    >> Ireland. I'm partial to smoked salmon, and no smoked salmon in the US
    >> comes close to what we had in a rather ordinary seeming restaurant in
    >> Waterford.
    >>

    >Can you even get decent smoked salmon in Orlando?


    Sure, in certain places.
    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Nov 25, 2012
  16. Rob

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 15:24:25 -0800, nospam <>
    wrote:

    >> Just for shits & giggles, I compared Allegiant and Delta for March
    >> 6th. Allegiant is $98.30 and Delta is $119.00. Allegiant charges $35
    >> for a checked bag, Delta $25.00.

    >
    >so almost the same, assuming you check bags, which not everyone does,
    >and some get that perk for free anyway. then add in the fees for
    >checking in, printing boarding passes, a drink or two, etc, and it's
    >not as cheap as it may seem.


    >that's how airlines are trying to fool naive customers. they offer a
    >lowball price and then tack on extras, in the hopes they don't notice
    >the total might be higher.


    >> However, Delta's flights are not direct and the travel time is either
    >> 4 hrs and 20 min or 5 hrs and 13 min. (depending on the flight) and
    >> then add a couple of hours for arrangement and ground travel to
    >> Rockford from O'Hare. Also, add the price of a rental car or shuttle
    >> bus.

    >
    >for *you*.


    >> Allegiant's travel time is under 3 hrs and no additional ground travel
    >> time or cost.


    The extra ground cost is valid for anyone traveling from here to
    Rockford. The extra time is valid for them, also. That route flys
    three days a week, every week, so there are evidently a few other
    people.

    Speaking of naive people, you ignore the ground costs, ground time,
    and extra air and ground time.




    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Nov 25, 2012
  17. Rob

    PeterN Guest

    On 11/24/2012 12:43 PM, nospam wrote:
    > In article <50b0d454$0$10848$-secrets.com>, PeterN
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> I would hardly expect them to say sales are shit. I have no idea how
    >> good, or bad their service is, not how much it costs. I remember making
    >> telephone calls using Aitfone. It was expensive, with terrible connectons.

    >
    > things have come a long, long way since airfone.


    Whoosh!

    >
    > gogo is pretty good. it's very popular, so on occasion it can be a bit
    > slow if half the plane is trying to watch youtube, but they're working
    > to increase bandwidth to the planes. it's more than adequate for web
    > surfing and email.
    >
    >> When I travel, WiFi is NOT one of my criteria for
    >> selection of a flight.

    >
    > that's fine. for other people it is. you do realize what you like is
    > not what the rest of the world wants, right?
    >

    Do you own a mirror.

    Are you aware that some business travelers actually work on the plane,
    and don't have the time for frivolous activities?

    >> In my order, schedule, non-stop, travel comfort,
    >> cost. With the exceptions of the now defunct Grand Air, and Concorde,
    >> the best meals I have on a flight is when I bring my own food.

    >
    > then you fly on crappy airlines too. airline food up front can be quite
    > good, although it's not like it used to be. the wine quality, however,
    > has gone down on most domestic flights, although alaska has wine and
    > beer from local wineries and breweries, which are generally pretty
    > good.
    >

    I see you are still talking out of your ass.
    You have no idea what I do, or what I have done.


    >> BTW what is the actual percentage? Is a 10% failure rate "very likely?"

    >
    > out of all the flights i've been on with gogo (hundreds), i can only
    > recall two instances where it didn't work. one where it was working but
    > the flight crew said it wasn't and then they shut it off, and another
    > where there was a gogo card in the seat pocket but no signal. that's an
    > extremely low failure rate.


    You did not answer my question. Give us a verifiable number.

    How much time do you spend flying in a year?
    Hundreds of flights? Since when? You might even be a million mile flyer.
    Congratulations!

    >
    > i've experienced more mechanicals than gogo failures. those can be much
    > more of a hassle.
    >
    >> As stated above,the purpose of any travel is to get some place, within a
    >> certain time frame. WiFi is NOT a driving force. Nor is it for most
    >> business travelers. (At least the ones who travel to accomplish
    >> something, not play games on OPM.

    >
    > how is it you know what most business travelers want?


    You are right. I should have qualified that statement by inserting the
    word "successful."

    >
    > a lot of people like to travel in comfort and/or get work done, which
    > is why some will *pay* for f/j rather than chance an upgrade.
    >

    So, what is you point? getting work done <> videos.


    > business travelers are almost always on their laptops, with or without
    > wifi, and when


    Depends on why they travel. I used to continually review my files, not
    all of which were digitized. When I was preparing for a negotiation,
    every detail was planned in advance. Tony Coo[er knows exactly hat I mean.

    > there's wifi they can communicate with the rest of the
    > company which is usually very important. they don't normally play
    > games, but even ceos are entitled to relax a bit now and then.



    So! I'm in favor of motherhood and apple pie, too. What does that have
    to do with whatever point you are trying to make? Nobody here is sure
    what that is.
    BTW you have no told us how much this sometimes unreliable and
    frustratingly slow WiFi connection costs.
    >


    >>>> As to cost, I am not a wealthy as you. Therefore, if I had to pay $20
    >>>> for a gallon of gas, for me it would be the same as no gas being
    >>>> available. (I fully expect you will not understand that analogy.)
    >>>
    >>> more idiocy.

    >> Just carrying your point to its dry conclusion.

    >
    > i.e., trolling. that's all you do.
    >


    yep! That a known fact.


    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Nov 25, 2012
  18. Rob

    PeterN Guest

    On 11/24/2012 12:43 PM, nospam wrote:
    > In article <50b0d4dd$0$10848$-secrets.com>, PeterN
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>>> He can recharge his iPad, or laptop, while waiting for the connecting
    >>>> flight.
    >>>
    >>> don't need to.

    >>
    >> then why do you care about in=flight outlets?

    >
    > learn to read. i don't need to recharge the ipad or laptop.
    >
    > if there's an outlet on board i use it, but if not that's ok too.
    >


    Why would you use it. You don't need it, and someone else may?

    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Nov 25, 2012
  19. Rob

    PeterN Guest

    On 11/24/2012 8:29 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2012-11-24 16:19:49 -0800, PeterN <> said:
    >
    >> On 11/24/2012 11:31 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>> On 2012-11-24 06:05:44 -0800, PeterN <>
    >>> said:
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Which is a valid assumption in the absence of skewing information. But
    >>>> that s not the point. When I travel, WiFi is NOT one of my criteria
    >>>> for selection of a flight. In my order, schedule, non-stop, travel
    >>>> comfort, cost. With the exceptions of the now defunct Grand Air, and
    >>>> Concorde, the best meals I have on a flight is when I bring my own
    >>>> food.
    >>>
    >>> For the air travel I have engaged in, my priorities have been schedule,
    >>> minimizing connections, comfort, & cost (sometimes comfort and value
    >>> overrode cost). Connectivity in flight has never been a priority for me,
    >>> and I am a bandwidth using fool. I enjoy the break.
    >>>
    >>> As far as meals go some of the best have been on a 1972 BA coach flight
    >>> from JFK to LHR, a 1981 Swissair coach flight into Zurich, and the
    >>> consistently very good KLM Business Class offerings (my current
    >>> preferred international carrier, they have no first class and I
    >>> understand their coach is quite acceptable). In 12 KLM fights I have
    >>> always enjoyed superb meals.
    >>>
    >>> Then we have the dismal, inexcusably awful meals. A 1985 United Shuttle
    >>> flight from D.C. to La Guardia, a 2005 Alaska Vancouver to SFO flight, a
    >>> 2005 SFO-JFK and return on United, and a 2009 Detroit-SFO Delta. The
    >>> last two were decidedly bad because they were business class offerings.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Horses for courses. But, unlike others here, I would never try to
    >> impose my preferences on you, and I doubt you would try to impose your
    >> preferences on me. (Except of course if you were traveling on my
    >> business, at my expense.)

    >
    > I started flying business class because of my wife's disability, mainly
    > because of the seating comfort for her and her lack of mobility once on
    > the plane. Her last flights were the 2005 SFO-JFK United round trip, and
    > those proved to be too much for her.
    > Due to accumulated KLM & United milage I was able to fly business class
    > on a further 4 KLM, and 2 Delta flights since she died. I haven't done
    > much flying recently. I am mostly sticking out West taking road trips.
    >


    We flew First or business for similar reasons. My wife used to need a
    mobility scooter, and has a history of phlebitis. I am well over 6' and
    simply require the legroom. If I sit in a cramped position for any
    period over about 15 minutes, it takes me a while to be able to walk.
    When I was flying for business, I simply needed the room to be able to
    work. Lately we have been taking driving vacations simply because flying
    is such a PITA, and I like to carry a lot of camera gear.

    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Nov 25, 2012
  20. Rob

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 19:59:21 -0500, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    >Depends on why they travel. I used to continually review my files, not
    >all of which were digitized. When I was preparing for a negotiation,
    >every detail was planned in advance. Tony Cooper knows exactly what I mean.


    Since my business trips took place in the B.L. years, (before laptop),
    I'm a paper and pencil guy. When flying somewhere to make a
    presentation, I'd make one of those two column lists with "Possible
    objections" on one side and "Answers" on the other. It helped me to
    try to anticipate what might be brought up.

    On one trip to NYC, I stumbled on a place that made business cases. I
    had a special binder made with the rings on the top and then had a
    print shop print lined paper punched 3-ring at the top. The pages
    flipped up and over, and the cover zipped closed. It was stiff like a
    clipboard. This gave me a 3-ring binder that took less space
    horizontally and didn't have rings that got in the way of my left-hand
    writing. It was great for airplane travel.

    I don't think I could have worked as well on a laptop if they were
    available then. It would be slower to type and tab and move around
    the page. Neater, yes, but not more efficient.

    nospam will tell me that there are now pads where you hand write with
    a stylus, but that's just a more expensive toy to do the same thing
    you could do with a legal pad and a pencil.

    The one thing I wish I had then was a laptop with a spreadsheet
    program. That's one thing that paper and pencil can't touch for being
    able to figure out permutations of results.

    I had to kinda chuckle at nospam's comment about keeping in touch 24/7
    with mobile devices. There were times I *welcomed* not being able to
    keep in touch. A 3-hour flight gave me 3 hours of thinking time,
    making the occasional note, that was uninterrupted. It was amazing
    how the people back at the office could solve problems and handle
    things on their own if they couldn't reach me. And, they probably got
    more done without me calling them.

    Any manager who thinks the business can't survive if he's not
    constantly in touch has an exaggerated sense of self-importance.




    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Nov 25, 2012
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