Re: Best approach to a new PC with no room for partitioning

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators, Jan 15, 2011.

  1. Carlos wrote:
    > Hi,
    > My HP CQ122-LA has a similar structure.
    > I shrunk the Windows partition in order to leave enough room for
    > creating my data partition.
    > And that was it.
    > Carlos


    As easy as that? Thank you, but I am concerned that I do not
    understand.

    My computer hard disk (which is a laptop and 320 gigabytes) appears to
    have an MBR partition table, and four "primary partitions" are
    defined, all of them being rather necessary. MBR does not allow more
    than four partitions, although it is possible to create one (at least
    one) "extended partition" (EBR) which can contain more partitions
    inside it.

    However, a modern computer may be able to use a "GUID Partition
    Table" (GPT), which allows up to 128 "primary partitions". Described
    here:
    <http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/GPT_FAQ.mspx>

    Perhaps you have got that?

    I have now read that document carefully, and it seems to be not
    possible to change an MBR disk to a GPT disk for Windows except by
    deleting everything on the disk first.

    That might be acceptable if creating "Windows recovery discs" (no
    Windows discs were included) then allows Windows to be re-installed.
    However, it also seems that the recovery partition is not needed once
    you have created recovery discs, so I could do that job and then
    delete the partition, and make another partition that I want.

    I also have now found some contradictory advice for simply using the
    recovery partition to store your own data, alongside the recovery
    material. Contradictory, because some tell you strongly not to do
    this. But the computer belongs to me, so why shouldn't I do whatever
    I want to do!

    And, someone claims that with the "system" primary partition intact,
    the rest of Windows 7 can be re-installed into an "extended partition"
    which is allowed to contain more partitions. So if I feel brave, I
    can try to do that! I do have backups anyway - I hope!
     
    Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators, Jan 15, 2011
    #1
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  2. If you do this within Windows 7 Disk Manager (diskmgmt.msc), it will convert
    the primary to extended if it isn't already, I believe. Go in, select the
    large Windows partition, and shrink it, then select the empty space left and
    select create simple volume from the action menu.

    You should also be able to do this with third party tools, IF they fully
    understand Windows 7.

    You should also have a program or other method to create a Windows 7 DVD
    from those various HP tools installed on the machine. The one partition you
    do NOT want to delete is "system" -- it's actually the one booting into
    Windows 7.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/blogs/Russel


    "Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc "
    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Carlos wrote:
    >> Hi,
    >> My HP CQ122-LA has a similar structure.
    >> I shrunk the Windows partition in order to leave enough room for
    >> creating my data partition.
    >> And that was it.
    >> Carlos

    >
    > As easy as that? Thank you, but I am concerned that I do not
    > understand.
    >
    > My computer hard disk (which is a laptop and 320 gigabytes) appears to
    > have an MBR partition table, and four "primary partitions" are
    > defined, all of them being rather necessary. MBR does not allow more
    > than four partitions, although it is possible to create one (at least
    > one) "extended partition" (EBR) which can contain more partitions
    > inside it.
    >
    > However, a modern computer may be able to use a "GUID Partition
    > Table" (GPT), which allows up to 128 "primary partitions". Described
    > here:
    > <http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/GPT_FAQ.mspx>
    >
    > Perhaps you have got that?
    >
    > I have now read that document carefully, and it seems to be not
    > possible to change an MBR disk to a GPT disk for Windows except by
    > deleting everything on the disk first.
    >
    > That might be acceptable if creating "Windows recovery discs" (no
    > Windows discs were included) then allows Windows to be re-installed.
    > However, it also seems that the recovery partition is not needed once
    > you have created recovery discs, so I could do that job and then
    > delete the partition, and make another partition that I want.
    >
    > I also have now found some contradictory advice for simply using the
    > recovery partition to store your own data, alongside the recovery
    > material. Contradictory, because some tell you strongly not to do
    > this. But the computer belongs to me, so why shouldn't I do whatever
    > I want to do!
    >
    > And, someone claims that with the "system" primary partition intact,
    > the rest of Windows 7 can be re-installed into an "extended partition"
    > which is allowed to contain more partitions. So if I feel brave, I
    > can try to do that! I do have backups anyway - I hope!
     
    Charlie Russel-MVP, Jan 15, 2011
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Charlie Russel-MVP wrote:
    > If you do this within Windows 7 Disk Manager (diskmgmt.msc), it will convert
    > the primary to extended if it isn't already, I believe. Go in, select the
    > large Windows partition, and shrink it, then select the empty space left and
    > select create simple volume from the action menu.
    >
    > You should also be able to do this with third party tools, IF they fully
    > understand Windows 7.
    >
    > You should also have a program or other method to create a Windows 7 DVD
    > from those various HP tools installed on the machine. The one partition you
    > do NOT want to delete is "system" -- it's actually the one booting into
    > Windows 7.
    >
    > --
    > Charlie.
    > http://msmvps.com/blogs/Russel


    I don't think this is going to work. At dear old Microsoft, a "simple
    volume" is something different - and you don't get it on a laptop.
    So, of course, is a "boot partition", which contains the operating
    system, and the "system partition", which boots it. On some systems -
    probably most at the moment - there is one partition that does both.

    Also, Easeus Partition Manager (from reading their pages) apparently
    will convert volumes from primary parttition to logical, EXCEPT for
    the boot and system partitions.

    In other news, apparently the main reason besides EFI/GPT for having a
    separate system partition and boot partition is BitLocker. Also,
    apparently, with Windows 7 Home Premium, I don't have that, either.

    So is it For anything else?? It reads like I could do one of the
    following:

    1. Delete the "system" partition like you just told me not to, and/or

    2. Perform "Recovery" into the boot partition alone - or into an empty
    partition marked active / bootable / NTFS, having first, um, deleted
    Windows.

    Or I could delete the "Recovery" partition itself if I'm extremely
    sure I won't need /that/ any more (it lets me make DVD copies of its
    contents - ONCE), or delete the "HP_TOOLS" EFI partition if I think I
    can live without THAT. (I assume that it actually works.)

    For instance... I can boot from DVD (sometimes)[*] or from USB stick
    (sometimes), I haven't yet tried SD card, but can I use the "HP TOOLS"
    from a location that isn't the hard disk? That's probably a question
    to put to HP.

    Or, I could delete the "HP TOOLS" partition but leave it in place, and
    set up a data partition alongside a shrunken C., and delete /that/ and
    restore the "HP TOOLS" partition when I want to use that facility.

    [*] For the record, Ubuntu 10.10 Desktop on USB stick (created on a
    different computer, using the CD or DVD), and SystemRescueCD 2.0.0 on
    CD in the HP drive supplied, can boot my computer. Otherwise not,
    mostly, although choosing any non-default option regarding "frame
    buffer" got me further - I think I was looking at non-graphical
    Knoppix at one point.
     
    Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators, Jan 17, 2011
    #3
  4. Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators

    Carlos Guest

    On 17 ene, 00:50, "Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-
    " <> wrote:
    > Charlie Russel-MVP wrote:
    > > If you do this within Windows 7 Disk Manager (diskmgmt.msc), it will convert
    > > the primary to extended if it isn't already, I believe. Go in, select the
    > > large Windows partition, and shrink it, then select the empty space left and
    > > select create simple volume from the action menu.

    >
    > > You should also be able to do this with third party tools, IF they fully
    > > understand Windows 7.

    >
    > > You should also have a program or other method to create a Windows 7 DVD
    > > from those various HP tools installed on the machine. The one partition you
    > > do NOT want to delete is "system" -- it's actually the one booting into
    > > Windows 7.

    >
    > > --
    > > Charlie.
    > >http://msmvps.com/blogs/Russel

    >
    > I don't think this is going to work.  At dear old Microsoft, a "simple
    > volume" is something different - and you don't get it on a laptop.
    > So, of course, is a "boot partition", which contains the operating
    > system, and the "system partition", which boots it.  On some systems -
    > probably most at the moment - there is one partition that does both.
    >
    > Also, Easeus Partition Manager (from reading their pages) apparently
    > will convert volumes from primary parttition to logical, EXCEPT for
    > the boot and system partitions.
    >
    > In other news, apparently the main reason besides EFI/GPT for having a
    > separate system partition and boot partition is BitLocker.  Also,
    > apparently, with Windows 7 Home Premium, I don't have that, either.
    >
    > So is it For anything else??  It reads like I could do one of the
    > following:
    >
    > 1. Delete the "system" partition like you just told me not to, and/or
    >
    > 2. Perform "Recovery" into the boot partition alone - or into an empty
    > partition marked active / bootable / NTFS, having first, um, deleted
    > Windows.
    >
    > Or I could delete the "Recovery" partition itself if I'm extremely
    > sure I won't need /that/ any more (it lets me make DVD copies of its
    > contents - ONCE), or delete the "HP_TOOLS" EFI partition if I think I
    > can live without THAT.  (I assume that it actually works.)
    >
    > For instance...  I can boot from DVD (sometimes)[*] or from USB stick
    > (sometimes), I haven't yet tried SD card, but can I use the "HP TOOLS"
    > from a location that isn't the hard disk?  That's probably a question
    > to put to HP.
    >
    > Or, I could delete the "HP TOOLS" partition but leave it in place, and
    > set up a data partition alongside a shrunken C., and delete /that/ and
    > restore the "HP TOOLS" partition when I want to use that facility.
    >
    > [*] For the record, Ubuntu 10.10 Desktop on USB stick (created on a
    > different computer, using the CD or DVD), and SystemRescueCD 2.0.0 on
    > CD in the HP drive supplied, can boot my computer.  Otherwise not,
    > mostly, although choosing any non-default option regarding "frame
    > buffer" got me further - I think I was looking at non-graphical
    > Knoppix at one point.- Ocultar texto de la cita -
    >
    > - Mostrar texto de la cita -


    HI,
    I now can recall that what I did exactly with my HP CQ-122La was to
    delete the recovery partition and use it for data.
    I didn't actually shrink the C: drive.
    That certainly flushed the warranty through the toilet but that was my
    risk.
    Carlos
     
    Carlos, Jan 17, 2011
    #4
  5. Carlos wrote:
    > HI,
    > I now can recall that what I did exactly with my HP CQ-122La was to
    > delete the recovery partition and use it for data.
    > I didn't actually shrink the C: drive.
    > That certainly flushed the warranty through the toilet but that was my
    > risk.


    Well, you could do both; so can I. I'm not sure about the warranty
    but obviously you can't use the data if it's gone.

    Even if I back it up (by making DVDs as prescribed, or otherwise) - I
    go by the saying, "You only THINK you've got a backup." (So I prefer
    to make that, "You only THINK you've got two backups.")

    But there was that idea of creating a useable folder inside the
    recovery partition... and maybe moving and expanding the partition,
    if, like mine, it is located "above" Windows (a numerically greater
    hard disk address), and relatively small. Whether it will be willing
    to do recovery after that, is a different question. But I think I've
    got a backup...

    I've read elsewhere that loading Windows by "recovery" on this PC will
    include the correct hardware drivers - mostly (some people reported
    that "tablet services" and the touch / stylus screen were not running
    afterwards) - but not the "free" software that may be included, such
    as perhaps Norton Anti-User, Microsoft Office trial, the Windows Live
    stuff. Apparently that makes it a pretty popular option??

    By the way, over the weekend, there's been a rumour of very imminent
    release - and a bootleg download leak - of Windows 7, Service Pack 1.
    So I considered waiting for the real release before doing /anything/
    else - although it doesn't seem likely to address my issues, only to
    avoid downloading however many patches separately before I connect the
    PC to anything - but currently it seems to be officially denied.
     
    Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators, Jan 17, 2011
    #5
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