Re: ATA to replace SPA-3000?

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by TheFug, May 10, 2008.

  1. TheFug

    TheFug Guest

    Martin Johnson schreef:
    > Can anyone recommend an ATA with really good echo cancellation?
    >
    > My SPA-3000 has never crashed, but echo cancellation has always been a
    > bit poor (particularly at the remote caller's end), and dependent on
    > audio gain levels set in the poorly-documented, over-complex web GUI. A
    > while back I upgraded to the current V3 firmware, which hasn't really
    > helped. So I wondered whether a more modern ATA box would have better
    > echo cancellation.
    >
    > I only need 1*Ethernet port and 1xFXS port, as I have a London 8 PABX
    > that can be configured as 2+6. But an ATA with 1*Ethernet, 1*FXS, 1*FXO
    > would be more flexible, if slightly more complex.
    >
    > What do people reckon to the Cisco ATA 186? I'm used to configuring
    > Cisco routers and switches, and Cisco kit tends to be very reliable.
    > Seems to be around the UKP 112 mark.
    >
    > Also - any comments on the FRITZ!Box Fon ATA? Seems hard to find in the
    > UK (even from the websites listed on AVM's site as resellers). Has it
    > been discontinued?
    >
    > Thanks for any info!
    >
    > - Martin.


    The Germans use a annexB type of fritzbox, in holland there are several
    sites where you can order a Fritz!box 7170,(annexA) great thing, has
    much features, don't expect a pro GUI webinterface, it's meant for the
    layman, and is easy to set, and has some very advanced features,(USB
    port for storage, printer... and softswitch options) which are far more
    easier to set, then a cisco/linksys device.

    --
    Bedankt, Thanks,

    The Fug.

    VoIP/SIP switched by: www.mysipswitch.com
    (A free service sponsored by www.blueface.ie)
    TheFug, May 10, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. TheFug

    Brian A Guest

    On Sat, 10 May 2008 12:40:33 +0200, TheFug <> wrote:

    >Martin Johnson schreef:
    >> Can anyone recommend an ATA with really good echo cancellation?
    >>
    >> My SPA-3000 has never crashed, but echo cancellation has always been a
    >> bit poor (particularly at the remote caller's end), and dependent on
    >> audio gain levels set in the poorly-documented, over-complex web GUI. A
    >> while back I upgraded to the current V3 firmware, which hasn't really
    >> helped. So I wondered whether a more modern ATA box would have better
    >> echo cancellation.
    >>
    >> I only need 1*Ethernet port and 1xFXS port, as I have a London 8 PABX
    >> that can be configured as 2+6. But an ATA with 1*Ethernet, 1*FXS, 1*FXO
    >> would be more flexible, if slightly more complex.
    >>
    >> What do people reckon to the Cisco ATA 186? I'm used to configuring
    >> Cisco routers and switches, and Cisco kit tends to be very reliable.
    >> Seems to be around the UKP 112 mark.
    >>
    >> Also - any comments on the FRITZ!Box Fon ATA? Seems hard to find in the
    >> UK (even from the websites listed on AVM's site as resellers). Has it
    >> been discontinued?
    >>
    >> Thanks for any info!
    >>
    >> - Martin.

    >
    >The Germans use a annexB type of fritzbox, in holland there are several
    >sites where you can order a Fritz!box 7170,(annexA) great thing, has
    >much features, don't expect a pro GUI webinterface, it's meant for the
    >layman, and is easy to set, and has some very advanced features,(USB
    >port for storage, printer... and softswitch options) which are far more
    >easier to set, then a cisco/linksys device.

    You asked in your original post about the Fritzbox.
    I have one and I also have an SPA-3000.
    I would say that the Fritzbox performs well and is much easier to get
    up and running, for the average person, than the SPA-3000.
    However, for me, I would have the SPA-3000 every time.
    My prime reason for saying this is the ability to customise the
    dialling experience via the dial plan. In its effort to be simple the
    Fritzbox loses out in this area. I have hardly used my Fritzbox 7140
    but I am considering selling it just for this reason - so any offers
    by email greatfully received.
    Personally, I have experienced little trouble with echo on either my
    SPA-3000 or the two SPA-3102 that I have set up for others.
    It is important to get the line impedance set correctly - then I just
    tweak the gain, as appropriate, and switch on the echo cancelling
    options.

    On a separate topic, not wishing to hijack the thread...
    I remotely control one of the SPA-3102 so that I can sort out any
    problems from home. I have found that it is impossible to get the web
    'Voice' control interface to come up correctly on a Windows XP Pro
    platform using Firefox, Opera or MSIE 7.
    The problem I get is that all the tab contents displayed under each
    other, in one long list, and then the egg timer just hangs as if
    waiting for more data. I have tried emptying the RAM and disk cache to
    no avail. I am aware that this web interface uses javascript so there
    may be some problem there though I don't think that is the problem.
    In Ubuntu Linux it will display OK most of the time but sometimes the
    page needs to be loaded again for a correct display. So, I am tied to
    booting up in Ubuntu if I want to access the SPA-3102 remotely.
    Any ideas on this one?



    ---
    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
    ---
    Brian A, May 11, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. TheFug

    TheFug Guest

    Brian A schreef:
    > On Sat, 10 May 2008 12:40:33 +0200, TheFug <> wrote:
    >
    >> Martin Johnson schreef:
    >>> Can anyone recommend an ATA with really good echo cancellation?
    >>>
    >>> My SPA-3000 has never crashed, but echo cancellation has always been a
    >>> bit poor (particularly at the remote caller's end), and dependent on
    >>> audio gain levels set in the poorly-documented, over-complex web GUI. A
    >>> while back I upgraded to the current V3 firmware, which hasn't really
    >>> helped. So I wondered whether a more modern ATA box would have better
    >>> echo cancellation.
    >>>
    >>> I only need 1*Ethernet port and 1xFXS port, as I have a London 8 PABX
    >>> that can be configured as 2+6. But an ATA with 1*Ethernet, 1*FXS, 1*FXO
    >>> would be more flexible, if slightly more complex.
    >>>
    >>> What do people reckon to the Cisco ATA 186? I'm used to configuring
    >>> Cisco routers and switches, and Cisco kit tends to be very reliable.
    >>> Seems to be around the UKP 112 mark.
    >>>
    >>> Also - any comments on the FRITZ!Box Fon ATA? Seems hard to find in the
    >>> UK (even from the websites listed on AVM's site as resellers). Has it
    >>> been discontinued?
    >>>
    >>> Thanks for any info!
    >>>
    >>> - Martin.

    >> The Germans use a annexB type of fritzbox, in holland there are several
    >> sites where you can order a Fritz!box 7170,(annexA) great thing, has
    >> much features, don't expect a pro GUI webinterface, it's meant for the
    >> layman, and is easy to set, and has some very advanced features,(USB
    >> port for storage, printer... and softswitch options) which are far more
    >> easier to set, then a cisco/linksys device.

    > You asked in your original post about the Fritzbox.
    > I have one and I also have an SPA-3000.
    > I would say that the Fritzbox performs well and is much easier to get
    > up and running, for the average person, than the SPA-3000.
    > However, for me, I would have the SPA-3000 every time.
    > My prime reason for saying this is the ability to customise the
    > dialling experience via the dial plan. In its effort to be simple the
    > Fritzbox loses out in this area. I have hardly used my Fritzbox 7140
    > but I am considering selling it just for this reason - so any offers
    > by email greatfully received.
    > Personally, I have experienced little trouble with echo on either my
    > SPA-3000 or the two SPA-3102 that I have set up for others.
    > It is important to get the line impedance set correctly - then I just
    > tweak the gain, as appropriate, and switch on the echo cancelling
    > options.
    >
    > On a separate topic, not wishing to hijack the thread...
    > I remotely control one of the SPA-3102 so that I can sort out any
    > problems from home. I have found that it is impossible to get the web
    > 'Voice' control interface to come up correctly on a Windows XP Pro
    > platform using Firefox, Opera or MSIE 7.
    > The problem I get is that all the tab contents displayed under each
    > other, in one long list, and then the egg timer just hangs as if
    > waiting for more data. I have tried emptying the RAM and disk cache to
    > no avail. I am aware that this web interface uses javascript so there
    > may be some problem there though I don't think that is the problem.
    > In Ubuntu Linux it will display OK most of the time but sometimes the
    > page needs to be loaded again for a correct display. So, I am tied to
    > booting up in Ubuntu if I want to access the SPA-3102 remotely.
    > Any ideas on this one?
    >
    >
    >
    > ---
    > Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
    > ---


    So i guess you already overcome the problem of accessing the 3102
    webinterface, i thought i had setup it correctly to do so, but i only
    had access when the pc was straight plugged into the 3102, not both via
    LAN :( what's the secret ?

    --
    Bedankt, Thanks,

    The Fug.

    VoIP/SIP switched by: www.mysipswitch.com
    (A free service sponsored by www.blueface.ie)
    TheFug, May 11, 2008
    #3
  4. TheFug

    TheFug Guest

    Jono schreef:
    > TheFug formulated on Sunday :
    >> So i guess you already overcome the problem of accessing the 3102
    >> webinterface, i thought i had setup it correctly to do so, but i only
    >> had access when the pc was straight plugged into the 3102, not both
    >> via LAN :( what's the secret ?

    >
    > Follow the instructions here, if I've understood your question correctly.
    >
    > <http://www.provu.co.uk/support_SPA-3102_SPA-3000.html>
    >
    >

    Yes, i also did that part, i guess i get still blocked by my router
    itself ...

    --
    Bedankt, Thanks,

    The Fug.

    VoIP/SIP switched by: www.mysipswitch.com
    (A free service sponsored by www.blueface.ie)
    TheFug, May 11, 2008
    #4
  5. TheFug

    TheFug Guest

    Martin Johnson schreef:
    > Brian A wrote:
    >
    >> You asked in your original post about the Fritzbox.
    >> I have one and I also have an SPA-3000.
    >> I would say that the Fritzbox performs well and is much easier to get
    >> up and running, for the average person, than the SPA-3000.
    >> However, for me, I would have the SPA-3000 every time.
    >> My prime reason for saying this is the ability to customise the
    >> dialling experience via the dial plan. In its effort to be simple the
    >> Fritzbox loses out in this area. I have hardly used my Fritzbox 7140
    >> but I am considering selling it just for this reason - so any offers
    >> by email greatfully received. Personally, I have experienced little
    >> trouble with echo on either my
    >> SPA-3000 or the two SPA-3102 that I have set up for others.
    >> It is important to get the line impedance set correctly - then I just
    >> tweak the gain, as appropriate, and switch on the echo cancelling
    >> options.

    >
    > Thanks for that.
    >
    >> On a separate topic, not wishing to hijack the thread...
    >> I remotely control one of the SPA-3102 so that I can sort out any
    >> problems from home. I have found that it is impossible to get the web
    >> 'Voice' control interface to come up correctly on a Windows XP Pro
    >> platform using Firefox, Opera or MSIE 7.
    >> The problem I get is that all the tab contents displayed under each
    >> other, in one long list, and then the egg timer just hangs as if
    >> waiting for more data. I have tried emptying the RAM and disk cache to
    >> no avail. I am aware that this web interface uses javascript so there
    >> may be some problem there though I don't think that is the problem.
    >> In Ubuntu Linux it will display OK most of the time but sometimes the
    >> page needs to be loaded again for a correct display.

    >
    > This has the sound of an MTU problem to me. I would monitor your
    > network traffic with WireShark and watch what happens when it stalls.
    > And/or, try temporarily reducing your client's MTU to something like
    > 512. That's not a fix, but if it temporarily solves the problem, you
    > can then examine the network to try to see what's causing it.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > - Martin.


    I will also try this one... thanks...

    --
    Bedankt, Thanks,

    The Fug.

    VoIP/SIP switched by: www.mysipswitch.com
    (A free service sponsored by www.blueface.ie)
    TheFug, May 11, 2008
    #5
  6. In article <>,
    Brian A <> writes:
    > On a separate topic, not wishing to hijack the thread...
    > I remotely control one of the SPA-3102 so that I can sort out any
    > problems from home. I have found that it is impossible to get the web
    > 'Voice' control interface to come up correctly on a Windows XP Pro
    > platform using Firefox, Opera or MSIE 7.
    > The problem I get is that all the tab contents displayed under each
    > other, in one long list, and then the egg timer just hangs as if
    > waiting for more data. I have tried emptying the RAM and disk cache to
    > no avail. I am aware that this web interface uses javascript so there
    > may be some problem there though I don't think that is the problem.
    > In Ubuntu Linux it will display OK most of the time but sometimes the
    > page needs to be loaded again for a correct display. So, I am tied to
    > booting up in Ubuntu if I want to access the SPA-3102 remotely.
    > Any ideas on this one?


    It's a bug in the TCP stack in the Sipura's. It was
    reported to Sipura years ago, but seemingly not fixed.
    If the outstanding unacked data gets to 32kbyte, the Sipura
    messes up it's calculations of where it's got to and starts
    retransmitting already acked TCP data. (This is likely a
    classic coding mistake, treating the window value as a signed
    16 bit value rather than unsigned 16 bit or a 32 bit value.)
    The remote end will give up and reset the TCP connection,
    leaving you with a partly loaded web page, which causes the
    tabs not to work (or in some browsers, no display at all).

    This is most likely to happen when accessing the web pages
    across a WAN (where there's a transit delay), and when
    accessing the larger web pages (e.g. admin, advanced).

    To workaround this, set the maximum TCP receive window on
    your browser system to 16k, so that the Sipura can never
    get to 32kbytes of unacked data outstanding. How you do
    this will depend on your OS. If (as is normally the case)
    the setting applies to all TCP connections, it may have an
    adverse effect on TCP performance in some circumstancies.

    --
    Andrew Gabriel
    [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
    Andrew Gabriel, May 11, 2008
    #6
  7. TheFug

    Brian A Guest

    On Sun, 11 May 2008 15:43:30 +0200, TheFug <> wrote:

    >Brian A schreef:
    >> On Sat, 10 May 2008 12:40:33 +0200, TheFug <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Martin Johnson schreef:
    >>>> Can anyone recommend an ATA with really good echo cancellation?
    >>>>
    >>>> My SPA-3000 has never crashed, but echo cancellation has always been a
    >>>> bit poor (particularly at the remote caller's end), and dependent on
    >>>> audio gain levels set in the poorly-documented, over-complex web GUI. A
    >>>> while back I upgraded to the current V3 firmware, which hasn't really
    >>>> helped. So I wondered whether a more modern ATA box would have better
    >>>> echo cancellation.
    >>>>
    >>>> I only need 1*Ethernet port and 1xFXS port, as I have a London 8 PABX
    >>>> that can be configured as 2+6. But an ATA with 1*Ethernet, 1*FXS, 1*FXO
    >>>> would be more flexible, if slightly more complex.
    >>>>
    >>>> What do people reckon to the Cisco ATA 186? I'm used to configuring
    >>>> Cisco routers and switches, and Cisco kit tends to be very reliable.
    >>>> Seems to be around the UKP 112 mark.
    >>>>
    >>>> Also - any comments on the FRITZ!Box Fon ATA? Seems hard to find in the
    >>>> UK (even from the websites listed on AVM's site as resellers). Has it
    >>>> been discontinued?
    >>>>
    >>>> Thanks for any info!
    >>>>
    >>>> - Martin.
    >>> The Germans use a annexB type of fritzbox, in holland there are several
    >>> sites where you can order a Fritz!box 7170,(annexA) great thing, has
    >>> much features, don't expect a pro GUI webinterface, it's meant for the
    >>> layman, and is easy to set, and has some very advanced features,(USB
    >>> port for storage, printer... and softswitch options) which are far more
    >>> easier to set, then a cisco/linksys device.

    >> You asked in your original post about the Fritzbox.
    >> I have one and I also have an SPA-3000.
    >> I would say that the Fritzbox performs well and is much easier to get
    >> up and running, for the average person, than the SPA-3000.
    >> However, for me, I would have the SPA-3000 every time.
    >> My prime reason for saying this is the ability to customise the
    >> dialling experience via the dial plan. In its effort to be simple the
    >> Fritzbox loses out in this area. I have hardly used my Fritzbox 7140
    >> but I am considering selling it just for this reason - so any offers
    >> by email greatfully received.
    >> Personally, I have experienced little trouble with echo on either my
    >> SPA-3000 or the two SPA-3102 that I have set up for others.
    >> It is important to get the line impedance set correctly - then I just
    >> tweak the gain, as appropriate, and switch on the echo cancelling
    >> options.
    >>
    >> On a separate topic, not wishing to hijack the thread...
    >> I remotely control one of the SPA-3102 so that I can sort out any
    >> problems from home. I have found that it is impossible to get the web
    >> 'Voice' control interface to come up correctly on a Windows XP Pro
    >> platform using Firefox, Opera or MSIE 7.
    >> The problem I get is that all the tab contents displayed under each
    >> other, in one long list, and then the egg timer just hangs as if
    >> waiting for more data. I have tried emptying the RAM and disk cache to
    >> no avail. I am aware that this web interface uses javascript so there
    >> may be some problem there though I don't think that is the problem.
    >> In Ubuntu Linux it will display OK most of the time but sometimes the
    >> page needs to be loaded again for a correct display. So, I am tied to
    >> booting up in Ubuntu if I want to access the SPA-3102 remotely.
    >> Any ideas on this one?
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> ---
    >> Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
    >> ---

    >
    >So i guess you already overcome the problem of accessing the 3102
    >webinterface, i thought i had setup it correctly to do so, but i only
    >had access when the pc was straight plugged into the 3102, not both via
    >LAN :( what's the secret ?

    This is the way I do it.
    1. Firstly you need to tackle the possible problem of a dynamic IP on
    the source computer.If the IP changes then you won't know what IP to
    link to.The Netgear router I am linking to has the facility to
    register with dyndns.com. Set up an account on the web site. I used
    'selfip' as a domain as the default one didn't seem to work properly.
    If your router does not have this facility then you can put a program
    on your computer to do a similar job. It will communicate with
    dyndns.com and tell it what the current WAN IP is. This enables a
    standard url to link to an IP which may be dynamic. Dyndns keeps track
    of the WAN IP used by the source.
    2. I changed the web port on the SPA-3102 to 81 and forwarded that
    port, in the router, to the local 'ATA' IP of the SPA-3102.

    Remotely, I can now enter
    http://xxxxx.selfip.org/admin/voice/advanced
    into the browser (where xxxxx is the username I chose for in
    dyndns.com account)

    Obviously it is important to have username/password access for
    security.




    ---
    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
    ---
    Brian A, May 11, 2008
    #7
  8. TheFug

    Brian A Guest

    On 11 May 2008 15:39:36 GMT, (Andrew
    Gabriel) wrote:

    >To workaround this, set the maximum TCP receive window on
    >your browser system to 16k, so that the Sipura can never
    >get to 32kbytes of unacked data outstanding. How you do
    >this will depend on your OS. If (as is normally the case)
    >the setting applies to all TCP connections, it may have an
    >adverse effect on TCP performance in some circumstancies.

    Well, Andrew, that does indeed solve the problem. Thank you for that.

    I was able to use Firefox, Opera and MSIE 7. They all worked.

    I guess that to change the TCP receive window settings it would mean
    delving into the registry. If there is a way of doing it via some
    windows utility then I don't know it, other than possibly regedit.
    Instead I found a program called 'Tweakmaster' and did it via that. It
    made a universal setting. I would have preferred to make a browser
    only setting, if that had been possible, but I don't know how I can
    easily do that. I have Firefox as my main browser but, if I could set
    Opera for this use, then I would choose to do that. I checked out
    'about:config' on Opera and Firefox but I couldn't locate any
    appropriate customisable settings there, though I may not be looking
    for the right things..
    I don't know yet if there have been any noticable affects on general
    performance.

    ---
    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
    ---
    Brian A, May 11, 2008
    #8
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