Re: ASMP and ACLU gathering data on police harassment of photographers

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by tony cooper, Feb 9, 2010.

  1. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:35:18 -0800, C J Campbell
    <> wrote:

    >email I got from ASMP today:


    Why do you assume that we know who/what "ASMP" is? OK, I looked it
    up: American Society of Media Photographers.


    >Concerns over security can sometimes make law enforcement officers,
    >security guards, and even private citizens get carried away. A number
    >of government agencies have been encouraging citizens to report
    >“suspicious behaviors,” and one of the specific activities often listed
    >as suspicious is photography. By way of specific example, the LAPD has
    >issued an Order listing 65 suspicious behaviors that LAPD officers are
    >required to report, and one of them is taking pictures or video footage
    >“with no apparent esthetic value.”
    >ASMP is working with the ACLU to try to combine security with some
    >basic common sense and fairness. To do that, we need to provide as many
    >concrete examples as possible of photographers being stopped,
    >questioned, harrassed or even detained for just taking photographs. If
    >this has happened to you some time over the past three years or so,
    >please send an email to me at or just reply to this
    >message. Please put “SAR” in the subject line (the police acronym for
    >“Suspicious Activity Reporting”) and let me have a description of what
    >you were doing, what happened, where it took place, the approximate
    >date of the incident, and its outcome. I will then pass the information
    >along to the ACLU. If you wish to have your anecdote remain anonymous,
    >please let me know that in the email.
    >Many thanks for your assistance, and thank you all for your being
    >members of ASMP,
    >Vic
    >Victor S. Perlman General Counsel & Managing Director


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Feb 9, 2010
    #1
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  2. tony cooper

    Paul Heslop Guest

    tony cooper wrote:
    >
    > On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:35:18 -0800, C J Campbell
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >email I got from ASMP today:

    >
    > Why do you assume that we know who/what "ASMP" is? OK, I looked it
    > up: American Society of Media Photographers.
    >

    I'm so glad I am not alone :O)

    --
    Paul (we break easy)
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Stop and Look
    http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
    Paul Heslop, Feb 9, 2010
    #2
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  3. tony cooper

    John A. Guest

    On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 00:32:17 -0500, tony cooper
    <> wrote:

    >On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:35:18 -0800, C J Campbell
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>email I got from ASMP today:

    >
    >Why do you assume that we know who/what "ASMP" is? OK, I looked it
    >up: American Society of Media Photographers.


    Yes. We must take into consideration that some countries block access
    to Google.
    John A., Feb 9, 2010
    #3
  4. tony cooper

    Bristolian Guest

    tony cooper wrote:
    > On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:35:18 -0800, C J Campbell
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> email I got from ASMP today:

    >
    > Why do you assume that we know who/what "ASMP" is? OK, I looked it
    > up: American Society of Media Photographers.
    >
    >


    Did you look up ACLU as well, or just assume we'd all know what that is?

    Sorry Tony, couldn't resist it. No harm intended, mate :)


    --
    Regards


    Bristolian
    Bristolian, Feb 9, 2010
    #4
  5. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:09:25 +0000, Bristolian <>
    wrote:

    >tony cooper wrote:
    >> On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:35:18 -0800, C J Campbell
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> email I got from ASMP today:

    >>
    >> Why do you assume that we know who/what "ASMP" is? OK, I looked it
    >> up: American Society of Media Photographers.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Did you look up ACLU as well, or just assume we'd all know what that is?
    >
    >Sorry Tony, couldn't resist it. No harm intended, mate :)


    Good point, but I did assume that "ACLU" has more global recognition
    than "ASMP". The American Civil Liberties Union often takes on
    unpopular cases that become high-profile because the general public,
    in these cases, doesn't want the ACLU's client to win.

    For example, they might represent a convicted child molester who has
    been denied rights not taken away by his/her conviction on that
    charge. The ACLU take on cases that other attorneys shun because they
    don't want to be associated with the plaintiff. The ACLU also takes
    on cases where the public would be in support of the plaintiff, but
    these don't tend to make the news.

    I'm not sure, but I think the Liberty group, or the National Council
    for Civil Liberties, in the UK is a similar organization.

    That's kind of strange to this American because the word "Liberty" in
    association with a group of attorneys in the US means the "Liberty
    Counsel": a group that represents the religious right and the
    self-apppointed guardians of our morals and behavior. They are the
    arch-enemies of the ACLU because the two groups are constantly
    battling over prayers in school and religious groups sponsored somehow
    by schools.

    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Feb 9, 2010
    #5
  6. tony cooper

    whisky-dave Guest

    "Bristolian" <> wrote in message
    news:cakcn.3465$2...
    > tony cooper wrote:
    >> On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:35:18 -0800, C J Campbell
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> email I got from ASMP today:

    >>
    >> Why do you assume that we know who/what "ASMP" is? OK, I looked it
    >> up: American Society of Media Photographers.

    >
    > Did you look up ACLU as well, or just assume we'd all know what that is?
    >
    > Sorry Tony, couldn't resist it. No harm intended, mate :)


    It can get confusing I've an american friend that thinks a SLR is Self
    Loading Rifle

    In my world TTL has always been Transistor-Transistor Logic, when I brought
    my
    2nd SLR it had TTL metering (Praktica VLC2)
    whisky-dave, Feb 11, 2010
    #6
  7. tony cooper

    Peter Guest

    "tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    >
    > Good point, but I did assume that "ACLU" has more global recognition
    > than "ASMP". The American Civil Liberties Union often takes on
    > unpopular cases that become high-profile because the general public,
    > in these cases, doesn't want the ACLU's client to win.
    >
    > For example, they might represent a convicted child molester who has
    > been denied rights not taken away by his/her conviction on that
    > charge. The ACLU take on cases that other attorneys shun because they
    > don't want to be associated with the plaintiff. The ACLU also takes
    > on cases where the public would be in support of the plaintiff, but
    > these don't tend to make the news.
    >
    > I'm not sure, but I think the Liberty group, or the National Council
    > for Civil Liberties, in the UK is a similar organization.
    >
    > That's kind of strange to this American because the word "Liberty" in
    > association with a group of attorneys in the US means the "Liberty
    > Counsel": a group that represents the religious right and the
    > self-apppointed guardians of our morals and behavior. They are the
    > arch-enemies of the ACLU because the two groups are constantly
    > battling over prayers in school and religious groups sponsored somehow
    > by schools.



    Usually when the ACLU takes such a case it is not really defending the
    accused. It is defending the people against the potential tyranny of the
    state.

    --
    Peter
    Peter, Feb 11, 2010
    #7
  8. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:11:36 -0500, "Peter"
    <> wrote:

    >"tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >
    >>
    >> Good point, but I did assume that "ACLU" has more global recognition
    >> than "ASMP". The American Civil Liberties Union often takes on
    >> unpopular cases that become high-profile because the general public,
    >> in these cases, doesn't want the ACLU's client to win.
    >>
    >> For example, they might represent a convicted child molester who has
    >> been denied rights not taken away by his/her conviction on that
    >> charge. The ACLU take on cases that other attorneys shun because they
    >> don't want to be associated with the plaintiff. The ACLU also takes
    >> on cases where the public would be in support of the plaintiff, but
    >> these don't tend to make the news.
    >>
    >> I'm not sure, but I think the Liberty group, or the National Council
    >> for Civil Liberties, in the UK is a similar organization.
    >>
    >> That's kind of strange to this American because the word "Liberty" in
    >> association with a group of attorneys in the US means the "Liberty
    >> Counsel": a group that represents the religious right and the
    >> self-apppointed guardians of our morals and behavior. They are the
    >> arch-enemies of the ACLU because the two groups are constantly
    >> battling over prayers in school and religious groups sponsored somehow
    >> by schools.

    >
    >
    >Usually when the ACLU takes such a case it is not really defending the
    >accused. It is defending the people against the potential tyranny of the
    >state.


    I understand that. In the child molester example, the child molester
    is the plaintiff, not the defendant. He was the defendant in the
    child molestation case, but the plaintiff in the current case. He may
    be, for example, fighting some local law about where he can reside.

    A city may have a law that a convicted child molester cannot live
    within X distance of a school. If X is prohibitively large, that may
    prevent the person from living anywhere in the city. The ACLU may
    represent the person to apply for a variance that allows the person to
    find accommodation.

    No one wants to see a child molester benefit from a lawsuit, so the
    ACLU is viewed as doing something detrimental to society. In fact,
    the ACLU is providing the basic right of legal representation to all.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Feb 11, 2010
    #8
  9. tony cooper

    J. Clarke Guest

    tony cooper wrote:
    > On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:11:36 -0500, "Peter"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> "tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Good point, but I did assume that "ACLU" has more global recognition
    >>> than "ASMP". The American Civil Liberties Union often takes on
    >>> unpopular cases that become high-profile because the general public,
    >>> in these cases, doesn't want the ACLU's client to win.
    >>>
    >>> For example, they might represent a convicted child molester who has
    >>> been denied rights not taken away by his/her conviction on that
    >>> charge. The ACLU take on cases that other attorneys shun because
    >>> they don't want to be associated with the plaintiff. The ACLU also
    >>> takes on cases where the public would be in support of the
    >>> plaintiff, but these don't tend to make the news.
    >>>
    >>> I'm not sure, but I think the Liberty group, or the National Council
    >>> for Civil Liberties, in the UK is a similar organization.
    >>>
    >>> That's kind of strange to this American because the word "Liberty"
    >>> in association with a group of attorneys in the US means the
    >>> "Liberty Counsel": a group that represents the religious right and
    >>> the self-apppointed guardians of our morals and behavior. They are
    >>> the arch-enemies of the ACLU because the two groups are constantly
    >>> battling over prayers in school and religious groups sponsored
    >>> somehow by schools.

    >>
    >>
    >> Usually when the ACLU takes such a case it is not really defending
    >> the accused. It is defending the people against the potential
    >> tyranny of the state.

    >
    > I understand that. In the child molester example, the child molester
    > is the plaintiff, not the defendant. He was the defendant in the
    > child molestation case, but the plaintiff in the current case. He may
    > be, for example, fighting some local law about where he can reside.
    >
    > A city may have a law that a convicted child molester cannot live
    > within X distance of a school. If X is prohibitively large, that may
    > prevent the person from living anywhere in the city. The ACLU may
    > represent the person to apply for a variance that allows the person to
    > find accommodation.
    >
    > No one wants to see a child molester benefit from a lawsuit, so the
    > ACLU is viewed as doing something detrimental to society. In fact,
    > the ACLU is providing the basic right of legal representation to all.


    Which particular ACLU action do you have in mind?
    J. Clarke, Feb 11, 2010
    #9
  10. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:51:15 -0500, "J. Clarke"
    <> wrote:

    >tony cooper wrote:
    >> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:11:36 -0500, "Peter"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> "tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Good point, but I did assume that "ACLU" has more global recognition
    >>>> than "ASMP". The American Civil Liberties Union often takes on
    >>>> unpopular cases that become high-profile because the general public,
    >>>> in these cases, doesn't want the ACLU's client to win.
    >>>>
    >>>> For example, they might represent a convicted child molester who has
    >>>> been denied rights not taken away by his/her conviction on that
    >>>> charge. The ACLU take on cases that other attorneys shun because
    >>>> they don't want to be associated with the plaintiff. The ACLU also
    >>>> takes on cases where the public would be in support of the
    >>>> plaintiff, but these don't tend to make the news.
    >>>>
    >>>> I'm not sure, but I think the Liberty group, or the National Council
    >>>> for Civil Liberties, in the UK is a similar organization.
    >>>>
    >>>> That's kind of strange to this American because the word "Liberty"
    >>>> in association with a group of attorneys in the US means the
    >>>> "Liberty Counsel": a group that represents the religious right and
    >>>> the self-apppointed guardians of our morals and behavior. They are
    >>>> the arch-enemies of the ACLU because the two groups are constantly
    >>>> battling over prayers in school and religious groups sponsored
    >>>> somehow by schools.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Usually when the ACLU takes such a case it is not really defending
    >>> the accused. It is defending the people against the potential
    >>> tyranny of the state.

    >>
    >> I understand that. In the child molester example, the child molester
    >> is the plaintiff, not the defendant. He was the defendant in the
    >> child molestation case, but the plaintiff in the current case. He may
    >> be, for example, fighting some local law about where he can reside.
    >>
    >> A city may have a law that a convicted child molester cannot live
    >> within X distance of a school. If X is prohibitively large, that may
    >> prevent the person from living anywhere in the city. The ACLU may
    >> represent the person to apply for a variance that allows the person to
    >> find accommodation.
    >>
    >> No one wants to see a child molester benefit from a lawsuit, so the
    >> ACLU is viewed as doing something detrimental to society. In fact,
    >> the ACLU is providing the basic right of legal representation to all.

    >
    >Which particular ACLU action do you have in mind?


    I have no idea what you are questioning.

    Do you not ken what an "example" is?


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Feb 11, 2010
    #10
  11. tony cooper

    John A. Guest

    On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:46:57 -0000, "whisky-dave"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"Bristolian" <> wrote in message
    >news:cakcn.3465$2...
    >> tony cooper wrote:
    >>> On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:35:18 -0800, C J Campbell
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> email I got from ASMP today:
    >>>
    >>> Why do you assume that we know who/what "ASMP" is? OK, I looked it
    >>> up: American Society of Media Photographers.

    >>
    >> Did you look up ACLU as well, or just assume we'd all know what that is?
    >>
    >> Sorry Tony, couldn't resist it. No harm intended, mate :)

    >
    >It can get confusing I've an american friend that thinks a SLR is Self
    >Loading Rifle
    >
    >In my world TTL has always been Transistor-Transistor Logic, when I brought
    >my
    >2nd SLR it had TTL metering (Praktica VLC2)
    >


    ATM = Automatic Teller Machine *or* Asynchronous Transfer Mode.

    I'm sure there are tons of other examples.
    John A., Feb 12, 2010
    #11
  12. Re: ASMP and ACLU gathering data on police harassment ofphotographers

    John A <> wrote:

    > ATM = Automatic Teller Machine *or* Asynchronous Transfer Mode.


    *surely* ATM stands for "At The Moment", e.g. ATM I'm using a
    mobile computer to post to r.p.d.s-s.

    -Wolf:)gang
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Feb 12, 2010
    #12
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