Re: Apple camera coming?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by SMS, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. SMS

    SMS Guest

    On 8/20/2012 4:52 PM, Alan Browne wrote:

    > I'd discount the "dslr" bit. If it comes from Apple, it'll be a P&S -
    > and likely a pretty good one.


    I can see Apple wanting to do in cameras what they did in printers with
    AirPrint. Get some of their technology inside the camera. I.e. cameras
    that can print directly to AirPrint enabled printers, or stream
    wirelessly to an iPad without the need for an actual computer or other
    device in-between.

    I would worry than an actual Apple camera would be an excellent product
    in terms of actually taking photographs, but with specific limitations
    that would annoy people. I.e. no memory card slot, no user-replaceable
    battery, etc..
    SMS, Aug 24, 2012
    #1
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  2. SMS

    nospam Guest

    In article <5037b763$0$70349$>, SMS
    <> wrote:

    > I would worry than an actual Apple camera would be an excellent product
    > in terms of actually taking photographs, but with specific limitations
    > that would annoy people. I.e. no memory card slot, no user-replaceable
    > battery, etc..


    if the battery lasts longer than a full day of shooting, who cares?
    most people don't have spare batteries for their cameras. it's the same
    as phones.

    no memory slot would be an issue, but that's highly unlikely for a
    camera.
    nospam, Aug 24, 2012
    #2
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  3. SMS

    SMS Guest

    On 8/24/2012 10:43 AM, nospam wrote:

    > if the battery lasts longer than a full day of shooting, who cares?
    > most people don't have spare batteries for their cameras. it's the same
    > as phones.


    I've never met anyone on a trip that didn't carry a spare camera
    battery. It's far more common than a spare battery for a phone. It's
    quite easy to go through one battery in a compact camera in less than a
    day. Furthermore, since cameras aren't subsidized by a wireless carrier,
    people keep them longer than a phone so it's more likely that the
    original battery would need to be replaced during the life of the product.
    SMS, Aug 24, 2012
    #3
  4. SMS

    nospam Guest

    In article <5037c537$0$70409$>, SMS
    <> wrote:

    > > if the battery lasts longer than a full day of shooting, who cares?
    > > most people don't have spare batteries for their cameras. it's the same
    > > as phones.

    >
    > I've never met anyone on a trip that didn't carry a spare camera
    > battery. It's far more common than a spare battery for a phone. It's
    > quite easy to go through one battery in a compact camera in less than a
    > day.


    that only means the batteries are too small. if a mythical future
    camera has a longer lasting battery, then that issue goes away.

    i bought a spare for my nikon slr. i get over 1000 photos per charge
    and have needed the spare *once*. it was a waste of money. most of the
    time, i shoot 200-300 photos per day. it's not an issue.

    > Furthermore, since cameras aren't subsidized by a wireless carrier,
    > people keep them longer than a phone so it's more likely that the
    > original battery would need to be replaced during the life of the product.


    subsidy has nothing to do with it. people replace phones even if
    they're not subsidized. people keep computers longer than they do
    phones and those have internal batteries, and not just from apple
    either.

    the batteries in macbooks and iphones are rated for 5 years. that's a
    long time for a camera.
    nospam, Aug 24, 2012
    #4
  5. SMS

    Guest Guest

    SMS <> wrote:
    > On 8/20/2012 4:52 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
    >
    >> I'd discount the "dslr" bit. If it comes from Apple, it'll be a P&S -
    >> and likely a pretty good one.

    >
    > I can see Apple wanting to do in cameras what they did in printers with
    > AirPrint. Get some of their technology inside the camera. I.e. cameras
    > that can print directly to AirPrint enabled printers, or stream
    > wirelessly to an iPad without the need for an actual computer or other device in-between.
    >
    > I would worry than an actual Apple camera would be an excellent product
    > in terms of actually taking photographs, but with specific limitations
    > that would annoy people. I.e. no memory card slot, no user-replaceable battery, etc..


    Airprint was a sweetheart deal with HP. In order to use Airprint, you MUST
    buy a HP printer as Airprint only prints to HP printers. Unfortunately, for
    HP printers break down quickly and have a host of other quality issues.

    An Airphoto feature using HP cameras would hasten Apple's death by two
    years.
    Guest, Aug 25, 2012
    #5
  6. SMS

    nospam Guest

    In article <>,
    <> wrote:

    > Airprint was a sweetheart deal with HP. In order to use Airprint, you MUST
    > buy a HP printer as Airprint only prints to HP printers.


    complete utter bullshit.

    where the hell did you come up with that garbage?

    airprint is supported by hp, epson, canon, samsung, brother, dell and
    lexmark. basically, everyone.

    and if that's not enough, older printers that predate airprint can be
    made airprint compatible by installing software on a computer.

    > Unfortunately, for
    > HP printers break down quickly and have a host of other quality issues.


    more rubbish.

    > An Airphoto feature using HP cameras would hasten Apple's death by two
    > years.


    apple is nowhere near death, no matter how much you want it to be.
    nospam, Aug 25, 2012
    #6
  7. SMS

    Guest Guest

    nospam <> wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Airprint was a sweetheart deal with HP. In order to use Airprint, you MUST
    >> buy a HP printer as Airprint only prints to HP printers.

    >
    > complete utter bullshit.
    >
    > where the hell did you come up with that garbage?
    >
    > airprint is supported by hp, epson, canon, samsung, brother, dell and
    > lexmark. basically, everyone.
    >
    > and if that's not enough, older printers that predate airprint can be
    > made airprint compatible by installing software on a computer.
    >
    >> Unfortunately, for
    >> HP printers break down quickly and have a host of other quality issues.

    >
    > more rubbish.
    >
    >> An Airphoto feature using HP cameras would hasten Apple's death by two
    >> years.

    >
    > apple is nowhere near death, no matter how much you want it to be.


    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2373145,00.asp

    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2774449?start=0

    http://www.macworld.com/reviews/collection/5806/airprint.html

    Learn to read "nospam".
    Guest, Aug 25, 2012
    #7
  8. SMS

    nospam Guest

    In article <>,
    <> wrote:

    > >> Airprint was a sweetheart deal with HP. In order to use Airprint, you MUST
    > >> buy a HP printer as Airprint only prints to HP printers.

    > >
    > > complete utter bullshit.
    > >
    > > where the hell did you come up with that garbage?
    > >
    > > airprint is supported by hp, epson, canon, samsung, brother, dell and
    > > lexmark. basically, everyone.
    > >
    > > and if that's not enough, older printers that predate airprint can be
    > > made airprint compatible by installing software on a computer.
    > >
    > >> Unfortunately, for
    > >> HP printers break down quickly and have a host of other quality issues.

    > >
    > > more rubbish.
    > >
    > >> An Airphoto feature using HP cameras would hasten Apple's death by two
    > >> years.

    > >
    > > apple is nowhere near death, no matter how much you want it to be.

    >
    > http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2373145,00.asp


    2 years old and the list is longer accurate.

    also:
    Apple has said that compatibility will eventually extend to printers
    from other manufacturers.

    > https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2774449?start=0


    1.5 years old and points out that airprint is open to any manufacturer.

    > http://www.macworld.com/reviews/collection/5806/airprint.html


    there's a canon printer in that list!

    so much for hp only. you just proved yourself wrong, and they're all
    old printers anyway. the list is obsolete.

    > Learn to read "nospam".


    take your own advice.

    airprint is open to anyone. hp just happened to be the first printer
    company to support it. other companies added it later and now they all
    have it.

    <http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/AirPrint>
    <http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/EpsonConnect/AirPrintCompatibili
    ty.do>
    <http://www1.lexmark.com/en_US/solutions/business-solutions/mobile-print
    /airprint/index.shtml>
    <http://welcome.solutions.brother.com/BSC/public/us/ca/en/faq/faq/000000
    /002800/000064/faq002864_000.html?reg=us&prod=mfcj835dw_us&c=ca&lang=en

    full list of supported printers, so far:
    <http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4356?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US>

    for older printers, install an airprint client on a computer and share
    an existing printer.

    once again, airprint is without question, not hp only.
    nospam, Aug 25, 2012
    #8
  9. SMS

    PeterN Guest

    On 8/24/2012 1:43 PM, nospam wrote:
    > In article <5037b763$0$70349$>, SMS
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> I would worry than an actual Apple camera would be an excellent product
    >> in terms of actually taking photographs, but with specific limitations
    >> that would annoy people. I.e. no memory card slot, no user-replaceable
    >> battery, etc..

    >
    > if the battery lasts longer than a full day of shooting, who cares?
    > most people don't have spare batteries for their cameras. it's the same
    > as phones.
    >


    1. Sometimes a charger is not taken on an overnight trip

    2. sometimes the battery does not last for a full day of shooting.

    3. How did you determine what most people do?




    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Aug 25, 2012
    #9
  10. SMS

    nospam Guest

    In article <5038f26b$0$6401$-secrets.com>, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    > >> I would worry than an actual Apple camera would be an excellent product
    > >> in terms of actually taking photographs, but with specific limitations
    > >> that would annoy people. I.e. no memory card slot, no user-replaceable
    > >> battery, etc..

    > >
    > > if the battery lasts longer than a full day of shooting, who cares?
    > > most people don't have spare batteries for their cameras. it's the same
    > > as phones.

    >
    > 1. Sometimes a charger is not taken on an overnight trip


    whose fault is that? don't blame the manufacturer if the user is too
    stupid to not bring a charger when they might need one.

    plus, it will probably charge of usb, so the chances are very high they
    already brought a charger for another device. many hotels and even some
    cars have usb ports, so they probably don't need a separate charger in
    the first place. if they brought a computer, they definitely don't.

    > 2. sometimes the battery does not last for a full day of shooting.


    rarely. most people don't shoot thousands of photos a day.

    you do realize that if this mythical camera had an internal battery, it
    would be designed to last for a full day in typical shooting (perhaps
    more), not an hour or two, right? the ipad gets over *ten* hours of
    battery time.

    will it last long enough for everyone? no. nothing is perfect. if it
    has removable batteries and you brought one spare and needed a second,
    you're in the same boat. plus you have down time to swap, which may
    happen at an inopportune time. meanwhile, the vast majority won't find
    it to be a problem.

    > 3. How did you determine what most people do?


    industry studies. almost nobody buys spare batteries. many companies
    are moving to internal batteries, including samsung, dell and motorola.
    it isn't just apple.
    nospam, Aug 25, 2012
    #10
  11. SMS

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:

    > If Apple make a camera it will likely use exactly the same wall wart as
    > the iPhone. It is very compact and pretty travel friendly. I just wish
    > it had folding blades like my old Nokia charger.


    older iphone adapters did, and the iphone adapter is just usb. any usb
    adapter will work. it does not need to be apple's.

    > And it will likely use the exact same connector as the new iPhone coming
    > next month. (Fewer pins than the current connector).
    >
    > It may also have WiFi and/or bluetooth for offloading images, video and
    > aural recordings.


    probably will, for both.

    > > you do realize that if this mythical camera had an internal battery, it
    > > would be designed to last for a full day in typical shooting (perhaps
    > > more), not an hour or two, right? the ipad gets over *ten* hours of
    > > battery time.

    >
    > Depends on use. But the iPad has more battery volume than any camera
    > would have and cameras use power when storing an image and showing it on
    > the display. A little bit when focusing (depending on the lens).


    an ipad also has significantly more power draw than any camera would
    ever have. a tiny ipod nano lasts 24 hours playing music (the ipad can
    go 140+ hours doing only that).

    the point is that apple isn't stupid enough to put a dinky little
    battery in it.

    > >> 3. How did you determine what most people do?

    > >
    > > industry studies. almost nobody buys spare batteries. many companies
    > > are moving to internal batteries, including samsung, dell and motorola.
    > > it isn't just apple.

    >
    > As I've pointed out to you in the past, while people may not get spare
    > batteries (I do for my camera) that the other purpose for easily
    > accessed and replaceable batteries is for the day the battery is no
    > longer taking on a charge to a useful level. It is an easily
    > serviced-by-the owner part that can be ordered online and delivered to
    > the users house.


    and as i've pointed out to you in the past, the useful life of the
    battery is longer than the useful life of the device. chances are very
    high they'll replace the entire device before the battery fails, but
    for those who keep their devices longer, they can order a replacement
    kit, or just have it done somewhere. needing to do that once in 5 years
    is very minor.
    nospam, Aug 25, 2012
    #11
  12. SMS

    PeterN Guest

    On 8/25/2012 12:34 PM, nospam wrote:
    > In article <5038f26b$0$6401$-secrets.com>, PeterN
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>>> I would worry than an actual Apple camera would be an excellent product
    >>>> in terms of actually taking photographs, but with specific limitations
    >>>> that would annoy people. I.e. no memory card slot, no user-replaceable
    >>>> battery, etc..
    >>>
    >>> if the battery lasts longer than a full day of shooting, who cares?
    >>> most people don't have spare batteries for their cameras. it's the same
    >>> as phones.

    >>
    >> 1. Sometimes a charger is not taken on an overnight trip

    >
    > whose fault is that? don't blame the manufacturer if the user is too
    > stupid to not bring a charger when they might need one.
    >
    > plus, it will probably charge of usb, so the chances are very high they
    > already brought a charger for another device. many hotels and even some
    > cars have usb ports, so they probably don't need a separate charger in
    > the first place. if they brought a computer, they definitely don't.
    >
    >> 2. sometimes the battery does not last for a full day of shooting.

    >
    > rarely. most people don't shoot thousands of photos a day.
    >
    > you do realize that if this mythical camera had an internal battery, it
    > would be designed to last for a full day in typical shooting (perhaps
    > more), not an hour or two, right? the ipad gets over *ten* hours of
    > battery time.
    >
    > will it last long enough for everyone? no. nothing is perfect. if it
    > has removable batteries and you brought one spare and needed a second,
    > you're in the same boat. plus you have down time to swap, which may
    > happen at an inopportune time. meanwhile, the vast majority won't find
    > it to be a problem.
    >
    >> 3. How did you determine what most people do?

    >
    > industry studies. almost nobody buys spare batteries. many companies
    > are moving to internal batteries, including samsung, dell and motorola.
    > it isn't just apple.
    >


    Just where did I use the term: "fault"
    A second battery is always part of the equipment of any serious
    photographer, as is spare memory cards.


    Please provide a link to the industry studies you refer to.

    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Aug 25, 2012
    #12
  13. SMS

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:

    > >>>> 3. How did you determine what most people do?
    > >>>
    > >>> industry studies. almost nobody buys spare batteries. many companies
    > >>> are moving to internal batteries, including samsung, dell and motorola.
    > >>> it isn't just apple.
    > >>
    > >> As I've pointed out to you in the past, while people may not get spare
    > >> batteries (I do for my camera) that the other purpose for easily
    > >> accessed and replaceable batteries is for the day the battery is no
    > >> longer taking on a charge to a useful level. It is an easily
    > >> serviced-by-the owner part that can be ordered online and delivered to
    > >> the users house.

    > >
    > > and as i've pointed out to you in the past, the useful life of the
    > > battery is longer than the useful life of the device. chances are very
    > > high they'll replace the entire device before the battery fails, but
    > > for those who keep their devices longer, they can order a replacement
    > > kit, or just have it done somewhere. needing to do that once in 5 years
    > > is very minor.

    >
    > Horsecrap (as I've replied to your horseshit in the past).


    horsecrap right back.

    > I had to
    > replace the battery in my prior phone twice over several years. I
    > expect no different from my iPhone.


    *you* might have needed to replace it, but most people don't. they
    replace the phone every 2-3 years, some even sooner.

    as for cameras, not too many people use a 5 year old camera, or a
    laptop for that matter, which is what the batteries are rated for.

    this whole nonsense about internal batteries is overblown. in the event
    someone needs to replace a battery, they'll replace it. so you remove a
    cover with a screwdriver rather than pop off a cover with your fingers.
    big deal. it's not something that would need to be done more than once,
    maybe twice, in the life of the product, if at all.

    > And of course there are 3rd party
    > batteries available and I will replace the battery myself.


    so it's not even an issue.
    nospam, Aug 25, 2012
    #13
  14. SMS

    nospam Guest

    In article <5039178b$0$6401$-secrets.com>, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    > >>>> I would worry than an actual Apple camera would be an excellent product
    > >>>> in terms of actually taking photographs, but with specific limitations
    > >>>> that would annoy people. I.e. no memory card slot, no user-replaceable
    > >>>> battery, etc..
    > >>>
    > >>> if the battery lasts longer than a full day of shooting, who cares?
    > >>> most people don't have spare batteries for their cameras. it's the same
    > >>> as phones.
    > >>
    > >> 1. Sometimes a charger is not taken on an overnight trip

    > >
    > > whose fault is that? don't blame the manufacturer if the user is too
    > > stupid to not bring a charger when they might need one.
    > >
    > > plus, it will probably charge of usb, so the chances are very high they
    > > already brought a charger for another device. many hotels and even some
    > > cars have usb ports, so they probably don't need a separate charger in
    > > the first place. if they brought a computer, they definitely don't.
    > >
    > >> 2. sometimes the battery does not last for a full day of shooting.

    > >
    > > rarely. most people don't shoot thousands of photos a day.
    > >
    > > you do realize that if this mythical camera had an internal battery, it
    > > would be designed to last for a full day in typical shooting (perhaps
    > > more), not an hour or two, right? the ipad gets over *ten* hours of
    > > battery time.
    > >
    > > will it last long enough for everyone? no. nothing is perfect. if it
    > > has removable batteries and you brought one spare and needed a second,
    > > you're in the same boat. plus you have down time to swap, which may
    > > happen at an inopportune time. meanwhile, the vast majority won't find
    > > it to be a problem.
    > >
    > >> 3. How did you determine what most people do?

    > >
    > > industry studies. almost nobody buys spare batteries. many companies
    > > are moving to internal batteries, including samsung, dell and motorola.
    > > it isn't just apple.

    >
    > Just where did I use the term: "fault"


    you didn't, but if someone doesn't bring a charger and the battery goes
    dead, it's of their own doing, not that the battery is internal. what
    if they didn't bring a spare? same result.

    > A second battery is always part of the equipment of any serious
    > photographer,


    only because the included battery doesn't last very long and apple
    isn't going to target serious photographers anyway.

    if a photographer is really serious, they'll bring a second *camera*,
    as many wedding photographers do. how many typical users do you think
    will do that?

    anyway, many slrs get well over 1000 photos, with some significantly
    more than that. much of the time, a second battery will almost always
    go unused. as i said in another post, i bought a second battery for my
    slr and used it once in several years, out of well over 20,000 photos.

    in this thread, one person shot nearly 1200 photos on a nikon d7000 and
    the battery was still 78% full. a follow up poster shot 3000 photos per
    charge. you'd need to be incredibly busy to shoot that many photos in
    one day.
    <http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=39541562>

    apple makes products for the masses, and if they make a camera, it will
    be a p&s aimed at the type of person who shoots a bunch of photos at a
    party and uploads them to facebook, not the pro who shoots weddings or
    magazine covers. since facebook is part of ios, it will likely be
    tightly integrated so all you need to do is shoot and the photos are
    online. it will also have a battery that lasts quite a while, as their
    other products do (laptops w/7-10 hour runtime, ipods w/24 hr runtime,
    etc.).

    > as is spare memory cards.


    that's different, but if it can upload on the fly then than issue is
    also gone.

    > Please provide a link to the industry studies you refer to.


    <http://allthingsd.com/20090624/new-mac-laptops-use-batteries-sealed-for-
    power/>

    But there¹s a dirty little secret about removable-battery laptops
    owned by average consumers: Hardly anybody buys extra batteries.
    Research firm NPD estimates that fewer than 5% of consumers buy a
    spare. So, a small trend has begun in the industry: More electronic
    products are being designed with their rechargeable batteries sealed
    inside. For instance, Dell¹s (DELL) new high-end laptop, the Adamo,
    has a sealed battery, as does the excellent Flip pocket video camera.

    as i said, it's not just apple, nor is it just laptops, and an internal
    battery offers many advantages:
    <http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19736_7-57367017-251/its-time-to-kiss-that-
    removable-smartphone-battery-goodbye/>

    What do the iPhone, Motorola Droid Razr Maxx, and Nokia Lumia 900
    have in common? The fact that their batteries can't easily be removed.
    ....
    Embedded batteries are also harder to lose and less likely to sustain
    damage, since there's usually no door to pop off when you drop the
    phone. More than that, sealing the back cover means you're protecting
    the internals from the elements, which could make the phone more
    rugged.
    nospam, Aug 25, 2012
    #14
  15. nospam <> wrote:
    > <> wrote:


    >> I've never met anyone on a trip that didn't carry a spare camera
    >> battery. It's far more common than a spare battery for a phone. It's
    >> quite easy to go through one battery in a compact camera in less than a
    >> day.


    > that only means the batteries are too small.


    It's a *compact* camera. Unlike a phone, there's a real lens
    and a real sized sensor ...

    > if a mythical future
    > camera has a longer lasting battery, then that issue goes away.


    If a mythical future camera doesn't need power and has infinite
    bandwidth and physically impossible lenses and sensors, then a
    lot of issues go away.

    > i bought a spare for my nikon slr. i get over 1000 photos per charge
    > and have needed the spare *once*. it was a waste of money. most of the
    > time, i shoot 200-300 photos per day. it's not an issue.


    Everyone is just like nospam. Nobody ever has any other needs.


    >> Furthermore, since cameras aren't subsidized by a wireless carrier,
    >> people keep them longer than a phone so it's more likely that the
    >> original battery would need to be replaced during the life of the product.


    > subsidy has nothing to do with it. people replace phones even if
    > they're not subsidized.


    Yep, once they are broken.
    There are a few that need every new gadget, be it computer, phone
    or camera. They're as much the average as the group marriage of
    5 gay inuit (with 11 children) in the US is.

    > people keep computers longer than they do
    > phones


    I know of at least one person that keeps their phone for much
    longer than their computers, therefore everyone replaces their
    computers before their phones. (That's nospam logic.)

    > and those have internal batteries, and not just from apple
    > either.


    Yep, the computers carry lithium cells for the real time clock
    that work for at least 10 years and can easily be replaced.
    Or they have condensators that don't need to be replaced at all.

    > the batteries in macbooks and iphones are rated for 5 years. that's a
    > long time for a camera.


    Actually, that's a short time for a camera. Cameras nowadays
    are close to their physical borders, there's just not that much
    that can be improved any more. People have been using the same
    film cameras for decades, and will use the same digital cameras
    for decades, now that technology has stabilized.

    -Wolfgang
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Aug 26, 2012
    #15
  16. SMS

    PeterN Guest

    On 8/25/2012 4:16 PM, nospam wrote:
    > In article <5039178b$0$6401$-secrets.com>, PeterN
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>>>>> I would worry than an actual Apple camera would be an excellent product
    >>>>>> in terms of actually taking photographs, but with specific limitations
    >>>>>> that would annoy people. I.e. no memory card slot, no user-replaceable
    >>>>>> battery, etc..
    >>>>>
    >>>>> if the battery lasts longer than a full day of shooting, who cares?
    >>>>> most people don't have spare batteries for their cameras. it's the same
    >>>>> as phones.
    >>>>
    >>>> 1. Sometimes a charger is not taken on an overnight trip
    >>>
    >>> whose fault is that? don't blame the manufacturer if the user is too
    >>> stupid to not bring a charger when they might need one.
    >>>
    >>> plus, it will probably charge of usb, so the chances are very high they
    >>> already brought a charger for another device. many hotels and even some
    >>> cars have usb ports, so they probably don't need a separate charger in
    >>> the first place. if they brought a computer, they definitely don't.
    >>>
    >>>> 2. sometimes the battery does not last for a full day of shooting.
    >>>
    >>> rarely. most people don't shoot thousands of photos a day.
    >>>
    >>> you do realize that if this mythical camera had an internal battery, it
    >>> would be designed to last for a full day in typical shooting (perhaps
    >>> more), not an hour or two, right? the ipad gets over *ten* hours of
    >>> battery time.
    >>>
    >>> will it last long enough for everyone? no. nothing is perfect. if it
    >>> has removable batteries and you brought one spare and needed a second,
    >>> you're in the same boat. plus you have down time to swap, which may
    >>> happen at an inopportune time. meanwhile, the vast majority won't find
    >>> it to be a problem.
    >>>
    >>>> 3. How did you determine what most people do?
    >>>
    >>> industry studies. almost nobody buys spare batteries. many companies
    >>> are moving to internal batteries, including samsung, dell and motorola.
    >>> it isn't just apple.

    >>
    >> Just where did I use the term: "fault"

    >
    > you didn't, but if someone doesn't bring a charger and the battery goes
    > dead, it's of their own doing, not that the battery is internal. what
    > if they didn't bring a spare? same result.


    My point exactly Glad you agree.



    >> A second battery is always part of the equipment of any serious
    >> photographer,

    >
    > only because the included battery doesn't last very long and apple
    > isn't going to target serious photographers anyway.


    ??
    What is the basis for that statement?

    >
    > if a photographer is really serious, they'll bring a second *camera*,
    > as many wedding photographers do. how many typical users do you think
    > will do that?


    I don't do surveys

    >
    > anyway, many slrs get well over 1000 photos, with some significantly
    > more than that. much of the time, a second battery will almost always
    > go unused. as i said in another post, i bought a second battery for my
    > slr and used it once in several years, out of well over 20,000 photos.
    >
    > in this thread, one person shot nearly 1200 photos on a nikon d7000 and
    > the battery was still 78% full. a follow up poster shot 3000 photos per
    > charge. you'd need to be incredibly busy to shoot that many photos in
    > one day.
    > <http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=39541562>
    >
    > apple makes products for the masses, and if they make a camera, it will
    > be a p&s aimed at the type of person who shoots a bunch of photos at a
    > party and uploads them to facebook, not the pro who shoots weddings or
    > magazine covers. since facebook is part of ios, it will likely be
    > tightly integrated so all you need to do is shoot and the photos are
    > online. it will also have a battery that lasts quite a while, as their
    > other products do (laptops w/7-10 hour runtime, ipods w/24 hr runtime,
    > etc.).
    >


    And somewhere else you stated in effect that Apple makes high quality items.

    >> as is spare memory cards.

    >
    > that's different, but if it can upload on the fly then than issue is
    > also gone.


    Exactly what would you carry in the field, that would be lighter and
    cheaper than a memory card?

    >
    >> Please provide a link to the industry studies you refer to.

    >
    > <http://allthingsd.com/20090624/new-mac-laptops-use-batteries-sealed-for-
    > power/>
    >
    > But there¹s a dirty little secret about removable-battery laptops
    > owned by average consumers: Hardly anybody buys extra batteries.
    > Research firm NPD estimates that fewer than 5% of consumers buy a
    > spare. So, a small trend has begun in the industry: More electronic
    > products are being designed with their rechargeable batteries sealed
    > inside. For instance, Dell¹s (DELL) new high-end laptop, the Adamo,
    > has a sealed battery, as does the excellent Flip pocket video camera.
    >
    > as i said, it's not just apple, nor is it just laptops, and an internal
    > battery offers many advantages:
    > <http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19736_7-57367017-251/its-time-to-kiss-that-
    > removable-smartphone-battery-goodbye/>
    >
    > What do the iPhone, Motorola Droid Razr Maxx, and Nokia Lumia 900
    > have in common? The fact that their batteries can't easily be removed.


    It's obvious that you failed to read the entire article.>


    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Aug 26, 2012
    #16
  17. SMS

    PeterN Guest

    On 8/25/2012 6:08 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
    > On 2012-08-25 16:16 , nospam wrote:
    >> In article <>, Alan Browne
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>>>>> 3. How did you determine what most people do?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> industry studies. almost nobody buys spare batteries. many companies
    >>>>>> are moving to internal batteries, including samsung, dell and
    >>>>>> motorola.
    >>>>>> it isn't just apple.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> As I've pointed out to you in the past, while people may not get spare
    >>>>> batteries (I do for my camera) that the other purpose for easily
    >>>>> accessed and replaceable batteries is for the day the battery is no
    >>>>> longer taking on a charge to a useful level. It is an easily
    >>>>> serviced-by-the owner part that can be ordered online and delivered to
    >>>>> the users house.
    >>>>
    >>>> and as i've pointed out to you in the past, the useful life of the
    >>>> battery is longer than the useful life of the device. chances are very
    >>>> high they'll replace the entire device before the battery fails, but
    >>>> for those who keep their devices longer, they can order a replacement
    >>>> kit, or just have it done somewhere. needing to do that once in 5 years
    >>>> is very minor.
    >>>
    >>> Horsecrap (as I've replied to your horseshit in the past).

    >>
    >> horsecrap right back.
    >>
    >>> I had to
    >>> replace the battery in my prior phone twice over several years. I
    >>> expect no different from my iPhone.

    >>
    >> *you* might have needed to replace it, but most people don't. they
    >> replace the phone every 2-3 years, some even sooner.

    >
    > Funny how ever little accessory store still carry batteries for a wide
    > range of cell phones. Never mind internet sellers. Per you there isn't
    > any market for that sort of thing.
    >


    Funny how he talks about "most people" when the issue is "most serious
    photographers/"

    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Aug 26, 2012
    #17
  18. SMS

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:

    > >> I had to
    > >> replace the battery in my prior phone twice over several years. I
    > >> expect no different from my iPhone.

    > >
    > > *you* might have needed to replace it, but most people don't. they
    > > replace the phone every 2-3 years, some even sooner.

    >
    > Funny how ever little accessory store still carry batteries for a wide
    > range of cell phones. Never mind internet sellers. Per you there isn't
    > any market for that sort of thing.


    how many they actually sell is what matters.

    there are over a billion phones. just how many batteries do you think
    get sold?
    nospam, Aug 26, 2012
    #18
  19. SMS

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    I haven't owned an apple product since my old IIgs, and I don't see any
    purchases from there blind-unfriendly product line, any time soon.

    Take Care,
    Dudley




    SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org
    Dudley Hanks, Aug 26, 2012
    #19
  20. SMS

    nospam Guest

    In article <k1bu3q$mor$-eu.org>, Dudley Hanks
    <> wrote:

    > I haven't owned an apple product since my old IIgs, and I don't see any
    > purchases from there blind-unfriendly product line, any time soon.


    say what???????

    apple products are *very* blind friendly, one the most blind friendly
    of any computing platform.

    for visually impaired, macs have voice over which can read the titles
    of buttons, controls and windows, as well as the contents in a window
    or whatever is under the cursor. the synthesized voice is extremely
    high quality, not a robotic sounding voice that's difficult to
    understand. macs also support over 40 braille displays.

    the cursor size can also be increased to really huge sizes. the display
    contrast can be increased and/or it can be set to reverse video. one
    can zoom into any portion of the display and pan around.

    for hearing impaired, a mac will flash the screen instead of make
    sounds and for those with limited hand mobility, they can control the
    mouse with the keyboard as well as use sticky keys so two handed
    operations can be done with one hand.

    ios devices have similar assistive technologies, including reading
    buttons and controls as well as what is under your finger as you touch
    various parts of the display. zooming is also supported, as is larger
    default text sizes.

    it's probably the *best* choice for visually impaired people.
    nospam, Aug 26, 2012
    #20
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