Re: Angel Season 2 - okay, is it really 1.33:1 or WS???

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by DVDHelp.us, Sep 2, 2003.

  1. DVDHelp.us

    DVDHelp.us Guest

    On 29 Aug 2003, "Brian \"Demolition Man\" Little" <> spake thusly, as
    shown in news::

    > On the back of "Angel" Season 2 it says the following:
    >
    > "Full Frame 1.78:1"
    >
    > Uuuuhhhhhhh... now does that mean that is in Widescreen,
    > or is this a goof up by Fox (anyone remember the 2 disc
    > for "Cast Away" quoted 2.35:1 for its ratio yet its 1.85:1).
    > After all, usually "full frame" is 1.33:1, right?
    >


    I don't know about this particular title, but I've come across a number of
    "fake" widescreen DVDs. First of all, not all widescreen movies are 16:9.
    There are other widescreen formats, and it ultimately boils down to the
    individual director's preference.

    But with these "fake" widescreens, what is actually happening is that they
    are shrinking the widescreen version down somewhat, then actually
    hardcoding the borders into a fullscreen-sized release. I don't really see
    te logic in this most of the time, because unless there is a particularly
    odd original aspect ratio, there really isn't any need for this sort of
    thing. I really only notice it when I'm making a backup to VCD/SVCD or
    whatever... During the encoding process, you have to set up the source AR,
    and these are the ones that can fool you if you don't pay attention. LOL

    --
    Jake

    Webmaster
    http://www.dvdhelp.us

    Usenet service for heavy downloaders:
    http://kickme.to/giganews
     
    DVDHelp.us, Sep 2, 2003
    #1
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  2. DVDHelp.us

    Richard C. Guest

    "DVDHelp.us" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    : On 29 Aug 2003, "Brian \"Demolition Man\" Little" <> spake thusly, as
    : shown in news::
    :
    : > On the back of "Angel" Season 2 it says the following:
    : >
    : > "Full Frame 1.78:1"
    : >
    : > Uuuuhhhhhhh... now does that mean that is in Widescreen,
    : > or is this a goof up by Fox (anyone remember the 2 disc
    : > for "Cast Away" quoted 2.35:1 for its ratio yet its 1.85:1).
    : > After all, usually "full frame" is 1.33:1, right?
    : >
    :
    : I don't know about this particular title, but I've come across a number of
    : "fake" widescreen DVDs. First of all, not all widescreen movies are 16:9.
    : There are other widescreen formats, and it ultimately boils down to the
    : individual director's preference.
    :
    : But with these "fake" widescreens, what is actually happening is that they
    : are shrinking the widescreen version down somewhat, then actually
    : hardcoding the borders into a fullscreen-sized release. I don't really see
    : te logic in this most of the time, because unless there is a particularly
    : odd original aspect ratio, there really isn't any need for this sort of
    : thing. I really only notice it when I'm making a backup to VCD/SVCD or
    : whatever... During the encoding process, you have to set up the source AR,
    : and these are the ones that can fool you if you don't pay attention. LOL
    :
    : --
    : Jake
    :
    : Webmaster
    : http://www.dvdhelp.us
    :
    : Usenet service for heavy downloaders:
    : http://kickme.to/giganews

    ==============
    Can you give us any idea of what you are talking about?

    I hope you are not giving "DVD help" to other people, because you do not seem to
    understand how widescreen DVDs are made.
     
    Richard C., Sep 2, 2003
    #2
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  3. DVDHelp.us

    Joshua Zyber Guest

    "DVDHelp.us" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > But with these "fake" widescreens, what is actually happening is that

    they
    > are shrinking the widescreen version down somewhat, then actually
    > hardcoding the borders into a fullscreen-sized release.


    I have absolutely no idea what it is that you are trying to describe.
    Please try reading the information at these links:

    http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/welcome.html

    http://www.widescreen.org
     
    Joshua Zyber, Sep 3, 2003
    #3
  4. DVDHelp.us

    DVDHelp.us Guest

    On 02 Sep 2003, "Richard C." <> spake thusly, as
    shown in news:3f550cd5$0$10400$:

    > Can you give us any idea of what you are talking about?
    >
    > I hope you are not giving "DVD help" to other people, because you do
    > not seem to understand how widescreen DVDs are made.


    Certainly, and there's really no need for wisecracks, "kind sir". My "DVD
    Help" is quite popular, actually... My tutorials even made it onto the
    front page of last week's Tech Tuesday (a weekly [and very widely read]
    "What's hot in tech" section of Yahoo! News.)

    I am referring to DVDs that are encoded in 4:3 (aka 1.33:1), but still have
    black bars along the top and bottom to give the APPEARANCE of being 16:9
    (aka 1.85:1). This is typically due to a director using an oddball AR for
    watever reason.

    Here's a brief [*cough*] list of aspect ratios that you might not be
    familiar with, including the always fun "ultrasquish" (2.35:1) AR.

    http://us.imdb.com/Sections/DVDs/AspectRatios/

    Not all movies are just "widescreen" or "fullscreen" in the
    WalMart/Blockbuster sense that you're probably thinking.

    --
    Jake

    Webmaster
    http://www.dvdhelp.us

    Usenet service for heavy downloaders:
    http://kickme.to/giganews
     
    DVDHelp.us, Sep 3, 2003
    #4
  5. DVDHelp.us

    Joshua Zyber Guest

    "DVDHelp.us" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > > I hope you are not giving "DVD help" to other people, because you do
    > > not seem to understand how widescreen DVDs are made.

    >
    > Certainly, and there's really no need for wisecracks, "kind sir". My

    "DVD
    > Help" is quite popular, actually... My tutorials even made it onto the
    > front page of last week's Tech Tuesday (a weekly [and very widely

    read]
    > "What's hot in tech" section of Yahoo! News.)
    >
    > I am referring to DVDs that are encoded in 4:3 (aka 1.33:1), but still

    have
    > black bars along the top and bottom to give the APPEARANCE of being

    16:9
    > (aka 1.85:1). This is typically due to a director using an oddball AR

    for
    > watever reason.


    The term for that is non-anamorphic letterbox, and it has very little to
    do with the chosen aspect ratio. Someone who writes a DVD Help column
    really ought to know such basic information. I strongly suggest that you
    educate yourself by reading the information at this page before you
    attempt to "Help" anyone else:

    http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/welcome.html
     
    Joshua Zyber, Sep 3, 2003
    #5
  6. DVDHelp.us

    Smaug69 Guest

    "DVDHelp.us" <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > On 02 Sep 2003, "Richard C." <> spake thusly, as
    > shown in news:3f550cd5$0$10400$:
    >
    > > Can you give us any idea of what you are talking about?
    > >
    > > I hope you are not giving "DVD help" to other people, because you do
    > > not seem to understand how widescreen DVDs are made.

    >
    > Certainly, and there's really no need for wisecracks, "kind sir". My "DVD
    > Help" is quite popular, actually...


    Maybe for 5-year olds and retarded people who don't know any better...

    > My tutorials even made it onto the
    > front page of last week's Tech Tuesday (a weekly [and very widely read]
    > "What's hot in tech" section of Yahoo! News.)


    What a joke.

    > I am referring to DVDs that are encoded in 4:3 (aka 1.33:1), but still have
    > black bars along the top and bottom to give the APPEARANCE of being 16:9
    > (aka 1.85:1). This is typically due to a director using an oddball AR for
    > watever reason.


    Wow. You are a complete idiot when it comes to the subject of DVD,
    aren't you? Letterboxed DVDs("4:3" ... as opposed to anamorphic DVDs-
    enhanced for "16:9" TVs) have nothing to do with aspect ratio(other
    than the aspect ratio needs to be at least 1.66:1). The choice to make
    a DVD letterboxed or anamorphic has nothing to do with the director or
    his choices. It usually has to do with what source is available- like
    the masters used for Laserdiscs or new HD transfers from the original
    film print- and how much a studio/company is willing to shell out to
    make the DVD. Also, 16:9 is not 1.85:1- it's more like 1.78:1 and is
    the ratio of widescreen TVs. I suggest you shut down your website now
    and slink away quietly. Leave the tutorials to the people who know
    what they are talking about.

    > Here's a brief [*cough*] list of aspect ratios that you might not be
    > familiar with, including the always fun "ultrasquish" (2.35:1) AR.


    Ultrasquish? Are you serious? What would call 2.76:1 then?
    Supercalifragisquishy?

    > http://us.imdb.com/Sections/DVDs/AspectRatios/


    These have nothing to do with how DVDs are actually mastered, though.

    > Not all movies are just "widescreen" or "fullscreen" in the
    > WalMart/Blockbuster sense that you're probably thinking.


    Widescreen is a generic word used by the industry(and most people) to
    refer to any movie that is shown in an aspect ratio that does not fit
    the 4:3 ratio of a standard TV. That is, if you see black bars of any
    kind on the top and bottom of the TV screen, most people call that
    widescreen.

    If you really want to learn about widescreen and aspect ratios I
    suggest you take a tour of the American Widescreen Museum.

    http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/index.htm

    Smaug69
     
    Smaug69, Sep 3, 2003
    #6
  7. DVDHelp.us

    jayembee Guest

    "DVDHelp.us" <> wrote:

    > "Richard C." <> spake thusly:
    >
    >> Can you give us any idea of what you are talking about?
    >>
    >> I hope you are not giving "DVD help" to other people,
    >> because you do not seem to understand how widescreen
    >> DVDs are made.

    >
    > Certainly, and there's really no need for wisecracks, "kind
    > sir". My "DVD Help" is quite popular, actually... My tutorials
    > even made it onto the front page of last week's Tech Tuesday
    > (a weekly [and very widely read] "What's hot in tech" section
    > of Yahoo! News.)


    Which doesn't speak to the point of whether your advice is
    actually good or not.

    > I am referring to DVDs that are encoded in 4:3 (aka 1.33:1),
    > but still have black bars along the top and bottom to give
    > the APPEARANCE of being 16:9 (aka 1.85:1).


    In other words, matting to the ratio, but not enhancing it
    to take advantage of the resolution of a 16:9 TV. Better known
    as "letterboxing". Richard knows all about that. The fact that
    you couldn't explain it properly to begin with goes to question
    your understanding of what's involved.

    And by the by, 16:9 is *not* 1.85:1, but 1.78:1 (do the math).

    > This is typically due to a director using an oddball AR for
    > watever reason.


    Oddball ratio? Pray tell, what ratios do you consider "oddball"?

    Letterboxing has done with any ratio greater than 1.33:1, most
    notably the not-the-least-bit-oddball ratios of 1.66:1, 1.85:1,
    and 2.35:1.

    > Here's a brief [*cough*] list of aspect ratios that you might
    > not be familiar with, including the always fun "ultrasquish"
    > (2.35:1) AR.


    Richard is probably familiar with more aspect ratios than you
    are.

    And..."ultrasquish"??? The fact that you don't call it by it's
    more common terms -- anamorphic or 'scope ratio -- pretty much
    indicates your depth of knowledge.

    > Not all movies are just "widescreen" or "fullscreen" in the
    > WalMart/Blockbuster sense that you're probably thinking.


    And what exactly is the "WalMart/Blockbuster sense".

    In any event, you're wrong. All movies *are* just "widescreen"
    or "fullscreen". It's irrelevant whether the widescreen ones
    are anamorphically enhanced or not, or what ratio they're in,
    and it's equally irrelevant whether the fullscreen ones are
    Academy Ratio, panned-&-scanned, or open matte. They're all
    still "widescreen" or "fullscreen".

    -- jayembee
     
    jayembee, Sep 3, 2003
    #7
  8. DVDHelp.us

    Richard C. Guest

    "DVDHelp.us" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    : On 02 Sep 2003, "Richard C." <> spake thusly, as
    : shown in news:3f550cd5$0$10400$:
    :
    : > Can you give us any idea of what you are talking about?
    : >
    : > I hope you are not giving "DVD help" to other people, because you do
    : > not seem to understand how widescreen DVDs are made.
    :
    : Certainly, and there's really no need for wisecracks, "kind sir". My "DVD
    : Help" is quite popular, actually... My tutorials even made it onto the
    : front page of last week's Tech Tuesday (a weekly [and very widely read]
    : "What's hot in tech" section of Yahoo! News.)

    ====================
    God help us!
    More misinformation spread by the "journalists" of the world.
    ===================
    :
    : I am referring to DVDs that are encoded in 4:3 (aka 1.33:1), but still have
    : black bars along the top and bottom to give the APPEARANCE of being 16:9
    : (aka 1.85:1). This is typically due to a director using an oddball AR for
    : watever reason.

    =============================
    You are still WAY off base with your "help".
    16:9 is NOT known as 1.85:1 - not by anyone who actually knows what they are talking
    about.
    16:9 = 1.78:1.
    1.85:1 is a COMMON aspect ratio, it is NOT "oddball".
    What makes you think you know what you are talking about?
    ========================
    :
    : Here's a brief [*cough*] list of aspect ratios that you might not be
    : familiar with, including the always fun "ultrasquish" (2.35:1) AR.

    ======================
    I am VERY familiar with aspect ratios.
    I never heard of "ultrasquish" from anyone who knows about DVDs.
    When did you make it up?

    I DO know about anamorphic (both the filming lenses and the 16:9 DVD enhancement -
    they are not the same)
    You apparently do not.

    Aspect ratios do not have anything to do with 16:9 (anamorphic) DVD enhancement.
    Aspect ratios are not changed by such enhancement- resolution, however IS!
    ===========================
    :
    : http://us.imdb.com/Sections/DVDs/AspectRatios/
    :
    : Not all movies are just "widescreen" or "fullscreen" in the
    : WalMart/Blockbuster sense that you're probably thinking.

    ==================
    All movies ARE either Original Aspect Ratio or they are butchered to NOT be OAR.
    All widescreen DVDs are either 16:9 enhanced (anamorphic) or they are NOT.
    The ones that are NOT 16:9 enhanced are a pain in th but when you own a 16:9 TV.
    A 16:9 TV will still show bars, either top and bottom or at sides, when movies are
    shown in OAR.
    All movies should be shown in OAR.
    ====================
     
    Richard C., Sep 4, 2003
    #8
  9. DVDHelp.us

    Mark Spatny Guest

    DVDHelp.us, says...
    > I am referring to DVDs that are encoded in 4:3 (aka 1.33:1), but still have
    > black bars along the top and bottom to give the APPEARANCE of being 16:9
    > (aka 1.85:1). This is typically due to a director using an oddball AR for
    > watever reason.


    Can....open. Worms....everywhere.

    This would have gone *SO* much better for you if you hadn't tried to
    talk down to Richard about technical issues. Ah well, live and learn.

    I would strongly suggest that you do some reading about anamorphic DVDs,
    then edit your "tutorials" and purge any misinformation. You know, odd
    little math errors like saying 16x9 = 1.85:1.

    > including the always fun "ultrasquish" (2.35:1) AR.


    Hey, I have a whole list of technical terms you can use in your
    tutorials. Feel free to throw these around to sound even smarter:

    1.78:1 = Full frame 16x9
    1.85:1 = Kindasortasquish
    2.35:1 = ultrasquish
    2.76:1 = hyperquantumoverdrivesquish.

    > Not all movies are just "widescreen" or "fullscreen" in the
    > WalMart/Blockbuster sense


    You are right. I much prefer the ones that are "widescreen" in the
    Victoria's Secret sense.
     
    Mark Spatny, Sep 4, 2003
    #9
  10. Buffy: TVS S5 DVD (was Angel Season 2 ...)

    A question for anyone who might know this:

    Is the Buffy The Vampire Slayer - Season 5 - DVD announced yet? I keep
    looking through the on line store, videoeta,com, etc. but I haven't seen it.
    It SHOULD be November or December if in keeping with their normal schedule,
    but I haven't heard anything yet. Have anyone else?

    TTFN
    Scott
    Deaf Does NOT Equate Daft ... in other people's cases.
    Moderator of a "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" List
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/-Buffy-/
    Moderator/Owner of HandiBooks
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HandiBooks/
    "The Buddha said all life is suffering. He was an optimist."
    -S Robbins
    Giles - We few. We happy few.
    Spike - We band of buggered.
     
    The Plumply Perverse Pool Guy, Sep 4, 2003
    #10
  11. DVDHelp.us

    AceoHearts Guest

    Re: Buffy: TVS S5 DVD (was Angel Season 2 ...)

    I believe it is coming out end of November / begining of December. It is
    set to hit the streets when the Firefly set comes out.

    AceoHearts
     
    AceoHearts, Sep 4, 2003
    #11
  12. Re: Buffy: TVS S5 DVD (was Angel Season 2 ...)

    : I believe it is coming out end of November / begining of December. It is
    : set to hit the streets when the Firefly set comes out.

    That was what I thought, but I wasn't sure.

    TTFN
    Scott
    Deaf Does NOT Equate Daft ... in other people's cases.
    Moderator of a "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" List
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/-Buffy-/
    Moderator/Owner of HandiBooks
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HandiBooks/
    "The Buddha said all life is suffering. He was an optimist."
    -S Robbins
    Giles - We few. We happy few.
    Spike - We band of buggered.
     
    The Plumply Perverse Pool Guy, Sep 5, 2003
    #12
  13. Re: Buffy: TVS S5 DVD

    The Plumply Perverse Pool Guy <> wrote:

    > : I believe it is coming out end of November / begining of December. It is
    > : set to hit the streets when the Firefly set comes out.
    >
    > That was what I thought, but I wasn't sure.



    Dec 9
     
    Frank Malczewski, Sep 5, 2003
    #13
  14. DVDHelp.us

    jayembee Guest

    Re: Buffy: TVS S5 DVD (was Angel Season 2 ...)

    "The Plumply Perverse Pool Guy" <> wrote:

    >> I believe it is coming out end of November / begining of
    >> December. It is set to hit the streets when the Firefly
    >> set comes out.

    >
    > That was what I thought, but I wasn't sure.


    December 9th, to be specific.

    -- jayembee
     
    jayembee, Sep 5, 2003
    #14
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