Re: Adobe - Photoshop and their "Subscriptions"

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Paul Ciszek, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. Paul Ciszek

    peternew Guest

    On 6/14/2013 8:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
    > In article <>, tonycooper214
    > @gmail.com says...
    >>
    >> On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 18:55:46 -0400, nospam <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article <51bb9a42$0$8368$-secrets.com>, peternew
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>> But If anyone supcribes to whatever CS verions they'll have, if a person
    >>>>> decides to stick with that version and NOT upgrade to the lastest OS and
    >>>>> adopbe decide to support only current OS's does that mean they'll remove my
    >>>>> old CS from my computer because they don;t want to support it but will
    >>>>> continue to charge me a subscription to adobe software what I can't use.
    >>>>
    >>>> nothing is removed from your computer, however, you will need to pay to
    >>>> keep it active.
    >>>>
    >>>> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way.
    >>>
    >>> .........
    >>>> Until Adobe decides to discontinue support.
    >>>
    >>> wrong.

    >>
    >> What is "wrong" about Peter's statement?
    >>
    >> Do you just automatically write "wrong" when replying to anything?

    >
    > No, he's saying that the statment that Adobe discontinuing support will
    > not affect older software in any way. Novell has long since
    > discontinued support on Netware 2.0. It still runs fine if you have
    > hardware old enough that it is supported by the included drivers. IBM
    > long ago dropped support on OS/2. My PS/2 Model 77 still runs fine.
    > Microsoft long since dropped support on Windows 2000. My old Thinkpad
    > still boots up any time I want to play with it.
    >


    Of course if yu continue the same use, and still continue to use a
    camera format that is currently supported the software will still run.
    But, once you start exchanging files, getting a different camera, with a
    different format, or simply get a new machine, you may very well have
    issues with the software.
    Yes, I have an old Toshiba laptop, that runs fine under Windows2, but it
    isn't really very useful, from a practical standpoint. It has no
    Internet access, only a parallel and serial port, plus a floppy drive. I
    suppose i could cobble something to make the machine somewhat
    functional, but I would rather play with photographs.



    --
    PeterN
     
    peternew, Jun 15, 2013
    #81
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  2. Paul Ciszek

    peternew Guest

    On 6/14/2013 8:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
    > In article <>, tonycooper214
    > @gmail.com says...
    >>
    >> On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 18:55:46 -0400, nospam <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article <51bb9a42$0$8368$-secrets.com>, peternew
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>> But If anyone supcribes to whatever CS verions they'll have, if a person
    >>>>> decides to stick with that version and NOT upgrade to the lastest OS and
    >>>>> adopbe decide to support only current OS's does that mean they'll remove my
    >>>>> old CS from my computer because they don;t want to support it but will
    >>>>> continue to charge me a subscription to adobe software what I can't use.
    >>>>
    >>>> nothing is removed from your computer, however, you will need to pay to
    >>>> keep it active.
    >>>>
    >>>> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way.
    >>>
    >>> .........
    >>>> Until Adobe decides to discontinue support.
    >>>
    >>> wrong.

    >>
    >> What is "wrong" about Peter's statement?
    >>
    >> Do you just automatically write "wrong" when replying to anything?

    >
    > No, he's saying that the statment that Adobe discontinuing support will
    > not affect older software in any way. Novell has long since
    > discontinued support on Netware 2.0. It still runs fine if you have
    > hardware old enough that it is supported by the included drivers. IBM
    > long ago dropped support on OS/2. My PS/2 Model 77 still runs fine.
    > Microsoft long since dropped support on Windows 2000. My old Thinkpad
    > still boots up any time I want to play with it.
    >
    > Peter's statement is wrong because discontinuing support does not have
    > any effect on the installed base of software other that if you have a
    > problem with it the manufacturer isn't going to help you.
    >

    And that cold be major for a lot of people.



    --
    PeterN
     
    peternew, Jun 15, 2013
    #82
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  3. Paul Ciszek

    Tony Cooper Guest

    On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 19:57:20 -0400, nospam <>
    wrote:

    >In article <>, Tony Cooper
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >> >> > But If anyone supcribes to whatever CS verions they'll have, if a person
    >> >> > decides to stick with that version and NOT upgrade to the lastest OS and
    >> >> > adopbe decide to support only current OS's does that mean they'll remove
    >> >> > my old CS from my computer because they don;t want to support it but will
    >> >> > continue to charge me a subscription to adobe software what I can't use.
    >> >>
    >> >> nothing is removed from your computer, however, you will need to pay to
    >> >> keep it active.
    >> >>
    >> >> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way.
    >> >
    >> >.........
    >> >> Until Adobe decides to discontinue support.
    >> >
    >> >wrong.

    >>
    >> What is "wrong" about Peter's statement?

    >
    >the discussion was about adobe removing software. i said that won't
    >happen, then peter said it will happen when adobe discontinues support.
    >
    >
    >that's completely wrong.
    >
    >subscription based software will stop working when the user stops
    >paying. no surprise there. however, it won't be deleted, nor will
    >anything else on the computer.
    >
    >where do people come up with these crazy ideas anyway?
    >
    >> Do you just automatically write "wrong" when replying to anything?

    >
    >only when it's wrong.


    Nothing was "wrong" in what Peter said, and that's what you replied
    to.

    >> >support has absolutely nothing to do with it. the software is *never*
    >> >removed from a computer unless the user explicitly deletes it.

    >>
    >> There's no mention of removing software by Peter.

    >
    >there was by whisky dave, which began the sub-thread.
    >
    >try to keep up.


    Why, then, write "wrong" in reply to Peter's post in which he said
    *nothing* about software removal? Talk about not keeping up.

    You whine and carry on when you feel something you said was "twisted",
    but you twist other people's comments. Just admit that you made an
    error and replied to the wrong post.
    >
    >> I don't know what "support" Peter is thinking of unless it's updates.

    >
    >doesn't matter. adobe isn't going to remove software.


    Well, they can't. It's not that they aren't going to, it's that they
    can't. They might if they could. What they can do is deactivate it.

    >
    >> Adobe may very well discontinue update support of older versions of
    >> CS. That's common in the industry.

    >
    >they might, except that's not what this is about.


    It is if I bring it up. I did.

    >> I have programs on my computer that the source has made inactive. They
    >> are 30 day trial versions that I never purchased and have never
    >> bothered to delete.

    >
    >there is no such thing as a trial version if you have the source code.


    I would say the full program is a trial version if the version can be
    crippled in 30 days if I don't buy it and enter a key or whatever the
    source requires me to do to keep in active.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
     
    Tony Cooper, Jun 15, 2013
    #83
  4. Paul Ciszek

    peternew Guest

    On 6/14/2013 9:01 PM, nospam wrote:
    > In article <51bbba5c$0$8313$-secrets.com>,
    > peternew <> wrote:
    >
    >> You have a knee jerk reaction. Your statement, in plain English "
    >> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way." That
    >> is one complete sentence. had you meant what you now say you meant,
    >> you wold have me a complete statement like: 'older software (cs6
    >> and earlier) will not be deactivated, or removed from your
    >> computer.' If that was what you meant, you certainly did not say
    >> it.

    >
    > the discussion was about software removal by someone other than the
    > user.


    Your quoted sentence did not say that.

    >
    > regardless, older software is unaffected by anything adobe or anyone
    > else could do, removal or otherwise. it's fully paid for and
    > continues to work as it always has.
    >
    >> If a publisher discontinues support, the usability of that software
    >> will be very much affected.

    >
    > wrong again. it continues to work exactly the same as it always has.
    >
    > if they stop supporting it, there won't be any tech support, bug
    > fixes or feature updates and compatibility with future hardware or
    > operating systems. that's all. it won't suddenly stop working when
    > adobe decides to stop supporting it.


    You have just described the effect on usability.

    >
    > nothing stops anyone from keeping an older computer around to run
    > older software.
    >


    Your quoted sentence, to which I responded, said something other than
    what you ar saying now.

    --
    PeterN
     
    peternew, Jun 15, 2013
    #84
  5. Paul Ciszek

    Tony Cooper Guest

    On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 20:57:05 -0400, "J. Clarke"
    <> wrote:

    >In article <>, tonycooper214
    >@gmail.com says...
    >>
    >> On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 18:55:46 -0400, nospam <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> >In article <51bb9a42$0$8368$-secrets.com>, peternew
    >> ><> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> > But If anyone supcribes to whatever CS verions they'll have, if a person
    >> >> > decides to stick with that version and NOT upgrade to the lastest OS and
    >> >> > adopbe decide to support only current OS's does that mean they'll remove my
    >> >> > old CS from my computer because they don;t want to support it but will
    >> >> > continue to charge me a subscription to adobe software what I can't use.
    >> >>
    >> >> nothing is removed from your computer, however, you will need to pay to
    >> >> keep it active.
    >> >>
    >> >> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way.
    >> >
    >> >.........
    >> >> Until Adobe decides to discontinue support.
    >> >
    >> >wrong.

    >>
    >> What is "wrong" about Peter's statement?
    >>
    >> Do you just automatically write "wrong" when replying to anything?

    >
    >No, he's saying that the statment that Adobe discontinuing support will
    >not affect older software in any way.


    Actually, he later posted that he meant that Adobe would not remove
    software and he was contradicting Whisky Dave, not Peter. It's not a
    good idea to guess what nospam means. He twists and turns and says
    "the discussion is about" only what *he* would like the discussion to
    be about.

    Besides, it's not really accurate to say that discontinuing support
    doesn't affect older software in any way. The software remains on the
    system and remains usable...until there's a problem.

    I went through this with Corel and WordPerfect. I had a perfectly
    usable version that did everything I wanted it to do...until something
    went wrong. Corel declined support unless I upgraded to a newer
    version with features that I don't need or want. The software was on
    my computer, but unusable. That, I think, qualifies as "affects".
    >
    >Peter's statement is wrong because discontinuing support does not have
    >any effect on the installed base of software other that if you have a
    >problem with it the manufacturer isn't going to help you.


    "Other than" is the affect. (Yes, you wrote "other that", but I
    assume you mean "other than".) What might happen in the future
    certainly affects the program. If you can't use it, you've been
    affected.

    >So? The installed base of CS is not "30 day trial versions.


    It most certainly can be. That's how trials work. You download the
    trial, use it for 30 days, and - if you purchase the program - enter a
    key that stops it from crippling itself.



    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
     
    Tony Cooper, Jun 15, 2013
    #85
  6. Paul Ciszek

    peternew Guest

    On 6/14/2013 9:11 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

    <snip>

    >
    > Only to those who need support from the manufacturer. Personally the
    > one time I've talked to a software publisher about support some manager
    > at my end forced me to do it and the phone call, which went for 12
    > hours, simply got in the way of my working the problem, which I finally
    > resolved independently of what the "support" weenie on the other end was
    > telling me. If I hadn't had that "support" forced on me I would have
    > had the job done in half the time.
    >
    >

    Yup! I have often said that I twice achieved the almost impossible. I
    has an issue where MS said it was an hP problem, and HP said it was a MS
    problem. Somehow, I actually was able to set up a conference call withe
    the HP and the MS tech, and got them discussing the problem with each
    other. (the other was getting a group of twelve practicing orthopedists
    to agree.)
    However, I do not think that most graphic artists and photographers do
    not have the level of sophistication necessary to solve those issues, as
    you did.
    I was thinking along lines of usability with future formats and
    machines, plus limitation on the ability to collaborate.

    --
    PeterN
     
    peternew, Jun 15, 2013
    #86
  7. Paul Ciszek

    Tony Cooper Guest

    On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 21:11:29 -0400, "J. Clarke"
    <> wrote:

    >In article <51bbba5c$0$8313$-secrets.com>,
    > says...
    >>
    >> On 6/14/2013 7:57 PM, nospam wrote:
    >> > In article <>, Tony Cooper
    >> > <> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >>>>> But If anyone supcribes to whatever CS verions they'll have, if a person
    >> >>>>> decides to stick with that version and NOT upgrade to the lastest OS and
    >> >>>>> adopbe decide to support only current OS's does that mean they'll remove
    >> >>>>> my old CS from my computer because they don;t want to support it but will
    >> >>>>> continue to charge me a subscription to adobe software what I can't use.
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> nothing is removed from your computer, however, you will need to pay to
    >> >>>> keep it active.
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way.
    >> >>>
    >> >>> .........
    >> >>>> Until Adobe decides to discontinue support.
    >> >>>
    >> >>> wrong.
    >> >>
    >> >> What is "wrong" about Peter's statement?
    >> >
    >> > the discussion was about adobe removing software. i said that won't
    >> > happen, then peter said it will happen when adobe discontinues support.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > that's completely wrong.
    >> >
    >> > subscription based software will stop working when the user stops
    >> > paying. no surprise there. however, it won't be deleted, nor will
    >> > anything else on the computer.
    >> >
    >> > where do people come up with these crazy ideas anyway?
    >> >
    >> >> Do you just automatically write "wrong" when replying to anything?
    >> >
    >> > only when it's wrong.
    >> >
    >> >>> support has absolutely nothing to do with it. the software is *never*
    >> >>> removed from a computer unless the user explicitly deletes it.
    >> >>
    >> >> There's no mention of removing software by Peter.
    >> >
    >> > there was by whisky dave, which began the sub-thread.
    >> >
    >> > try to keep up.
    >> >
    >> >> I don't know what "support" Peter is thinking of unless it's updates.
    >> >
    >> > doesn't matter. adobe isn't going to remove software. end of story.
    >> >
    >> >> Adobe may very well discontinue update support of older versions of
    >> >> CS. That's common in the industry.
    >> >
    >> > they might, except that's not what this is about.
    >> >
    >> >> I have programs on my computer that the source has made inactive. They
    >> >> are 30 day trial versions that I never purchased and have never
    >> >> bothered to delete.
    >> >
    >> > there is no such thing as a trial version if you have the source code.
    >> >

    >>
    >> You have a knee jerk reaction. Your statement, in plain English " older
    >> software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way." That is one
    >> complete sentence. had you meant what you now say you meant, you wold
    >> have me a complete statement like: 'older software (cs6 and earlier)
    >> will not be deactivated, or removed from your computer.' If that was
    >> what you meant, you certainly did not say it.
    >>
    >> If a publisher discontinues support, the usability of that software will
    >> be very much affected.

    >
    >Only to those who need support from the manufacturer. Personally the
    >one time I've talked to a software publisher about support some manager
    >at my end forced me to do it and the phone call, which went for 12
    >hours, simply got in the way of my working the problem, which I finally
    >resolved independently of what the "support" weenie on the other end was
    >telling me. If I hadn't had that "support" forced on me I would have
    >had the job done in half the time.
    >

    I agree with you about the value of the software's "support" team. If
    I have a problem, I'll research the problem on the web and try to find
    the answer from some user group. The only time I've gone direct to
    the source was calling Norton to find out how to completely eradicate
    Norton from my system. That required going up several levels of
    "support".

    To discount the value of the source's support, though, ignores the
    fact that not all users are the same. There are people who depend on
    the source's support, and if that is denied to them then they are
    affected.

    You really can't say something has no value and then turn around and
    say "only to those who need support" unless you say "it has no value
    to me".

    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
     
    Tony Cooper, Jun 15, 2013
    #87
  8. Paul Ciszek

    nospam Guest

    In article <51bbc00e$0$8368$-secrets.com>, peternew
    <> wrote:

    > > Peter's statement is wrong because discontinuing support does not have
    > > any effect on the installed base of software other that if you have a
    > > problem with it the manufacturer isn't going to help you.
    > >

    > And that cold be major for a lot of people.


    possibly, but by the time support is discontinued, they will have had
    ample time to figure out how it works.

    not that it matters, because there's a wealth of online resources, from
    web tutorials to youtube videos to asking in forums, independent of any
    vendor's support, and it's often much better than anything offered by
    the vendor.

    the point is that the software works exactly the same a day after
    support is discontinued as the day before it was discontinued. it does
    not cease to function. it does not expire. it is not deleted from the
    hard drive.
     
    nospam, Jun 15, 2013
    #88
  9. Paul Ciszek

    nospam Guest

    In article <51bbc1ad$0$8312$-secrets.com>, peternew
    <> wrote:

    > >> You have a knee jerk reaction. Your statement, in plain English "
    > >> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way." That
    > >> is one complete sentence. had you meant what you now say you meant,
    > >> you wold have me a complete statement like: 'older software (cs6
    > >> and earlier) will not be deactivated, or removed from your
    > >> computer.' If that was what you meant, you certainly did not say
    > >> it.

    > >
    > > the discussion was about software removal by someone other than the
    > > user.

    >
    > Your quoted sentence did not say that.


    the post to which i replied was about removal. this entire subthread is
    about removal.

    anyone who was following the discussion would see that. j.clarke could
    see that.

    > > regardless, older software is unaffected by anything adobe or anyone
    > > else could do, removal or otherwise. it's fully paid for and
    > > continues to work as it always has.
    > >
    > >> If a publisher discontinues support, the usability of that software
    > >> will be very much affected.

    > >
    > > wrong again. it continues to work exactly the same as it always has.
    > >
    > > if they stop supporting it, there won't be any tech support, bug
    > > fixes or feature updates and compatibility with future hardware or
    > > operating systems. that's all. it won't suddenly stop working when
    > > adobe decides to stop supporting it.

    >
    > You have just described the effect on usability.


    what effect? everything keeps working just like it always has.

    > > nothing stops anyone from keeping an older computer around to run
    > > older software.

    >
    > Your quoted sentence, to which I responded, said something other than
    > what you ar saying now.


    not in the least. you misunderstood and are trying to blame it on
    others.
     
    nospam, Jun 15, 2013
    #89
  10. Paul Ciszek

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Tony Cooper
    <> wrote:

    > >> >> > But If anyone supcribes to whatever CS verions they'll have, if a person
    > >> >> > decides to stick with that version and NOT upgrade to the lastest OS
    > >> >> > and adopbe decide to support only current OS's does that mean they'll
    > >> >> > remove my old CS from my computer because they don;t want to support
    > >> >> > it but will continue to charge me a subscription to adobe software what I
    > >> >> > can't use.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> nothing is removed from your computer, however, you will need to pay to
    > >> >> keep it active.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way.
    > >> >
    > >> >.........
    > >> >> Until Adobe decides to discontinue support.
    > >> >
    > >> >wrong.
    > >>
    > >> What is "wrong" about Peter's statement?

    > >
    > >the discussion was about adobe removing software. i said that won't
    > >happen, then peter said it will happen when adobe discontinues support.
    > >
    > >
    > >that's completely wrong.
    > >
    > >subscription based software will stop working when the user stops
    > >paying. no surprise there. however, it won't be deleted, nor will
    > >anything else on the computer.
    > >
    > >where do people come up with these crazy ideas anyway?
    > >
    > >> Do you just automatically write "wrong" when replying to anything?

    > >
    > >only when it's wrong.

    >
    > Nothing was "wrong" in what Peter said, and that's what you replied
    > to.


    it was completely wrong.

    > >> >support has absolutely nothing to do with it. the software is *never*
    > >> >removed from a computer unless the user explicitly deletes it.
    > >>
    > >> There's no mention of removing software by Peter.

    > >
    > >there was by whisky dave, which began the sub-thread.
    > >
    > >try to keep up.

    >
    > Why, then, write "wrong" in reply to Peter's post in which he said
    > *nothing* about software removal? Talk about not keeping up.


    the discussion was about software removal. i said it won't be removed,
    then peter said 'until they discontinue support'.

    that is wrong. they aren't going to remove anything, support or no
    support.

    > You whine and carry on when you feel something you said was "twisted",
    > but you twist other people's comments. Just admit that you made an
    > error and replied to the wrong post.


    i didn't twist a thing. i replied to whisky dave's question about
    removing software.

    here's the quote, reproduced from above:
    > >> >> > does that mean they'll
    > >> >> > remove my old CS from my computer because they don;t want to support
    > >> >> > it but will continue to charge me a subscription to adobe software what I
    > >> >> > can't use.


    i said no, they will not.

    if anyone made an error, it's you (and peter).

    > >> I don't know what "support" Peter is thinking of unless it's updates.

    > >
    > >doesn't matter. adobe isn't going to remove software.

    >
    > Well, they can't. It's not that they aren't going to, it's that they
    > can't. They might if they could. What they can do is deactivate it.


    that's what i said originally, which means you agree with me that
    peter's statement is wrong.

    you can't even keep the story straight in the same post!! you are so
    hard up to argue with anything i say that you contradict yourself.

    > >> Adobe may very well discontinue update support of older versions of
    > >> CS. That's common in the industry.

    > >
    > >they might, except that's not what this is about.

    >
    > It is if I bring it up. I did.


    except i my reply was made well before you brought it up.

    > >> I have programs on my computer that the source has made inactive. They
    > >> are 30 day trial versions that I never purchased and have never
    > >> bothered to delete.

    > >
    > >there is no such thing as a trial version if you have the source code.

    >
    > I would say the full program is a trial version if the version can be
    > crippled in 30 days if I don't buy it and enter a key or whatever the
    > source requires me to do to keep in active.


    you obviously don't understand what source code means. not too
    surprising.

    source code has a clear meaning with regards to software, the code that
    is compiled into an app.

    it does not mean the software vendor, which is what you appear to be
    thinking it is.

    if you have the source code, whether it's open source software or you
    obtained it in some other way, you *can't* have trialware because any
    such block can be removed and recompiled, if it was even there to begin
    with, which is not likely.
     
    nospam, Jun 15, 2013
    #90
  11. Paul Ciszek

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Tony Cooper
    <> wrote:

    > >> >> > But If anyone supcribes to whatever CS verions they'll have, if a person
    > >> >> > decides to stick with that version and NOT upgrade to the lastest OS
    > >> >> > and adopbe decide to support only current OS's does that mean they'll
    > >> >> > remove my
    > >> >> > old CS from my computer because they don;t want to support it but will
    > >> >> > continue to charge me a subscription to adobe software what I can't use.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> nothing is removed from your computer, however, you will need to pay to
    > >> >> keep it active.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way.
    > >> >
    > >> >.........
    > >> >> Until Adobe decides to discontinue support.
    > >> >
    > >> >wrong.
    > >>
    > >> What is "wrong" about Peter's statement?
    > >>
    > >> Do you just automatically write "wrong" when replying to anything?

    > >
    > >No, he's saying that the statment that Adobe discontinuing support will
    > >not affect older software in any way.

    >
    > Actually, he later posted that he meant that Adobe would not remove
    > software and he was contradicting Whisky Dave, not Peter. It's not a
    > good idea to guess what nospam means. He twists and turns and says
    > "the discussion is about" only what *he* would like the discussion to
    > be about.


    i didn't later post anything. in my *initial* reply to whisky dave, i
    said it won't be removed, and it wasn't a contradiction either. why do
    you insist on lying about what i say and do?

    > Besides, it's not really accurate to say that discontinuing support
    > doesn't affect older software in any way. The software remains on the
    > system and remains usable...until there's a problem.


    it's very accurate. discontinuing support does not affect anything on
    anyone's computer. it keeps working exactly as it always has.

    it only affects calling the vendor with a question, but there are many
    other ways to get answers, most of which are more effective.

    > I went through this with Corel and WordPerfect. I had a perfectly
    > usable version that did everything I wanted it to do...until something
    > went wrong. Corel declined support unless I upgraded to a newer
    > version with features that I don't need or want. The software was on
    > my computer, but unusable. That, I think, qualifies as "affects".


    you gave up to easy. you probably weren't the first person to encounter
    that so there is likely a solution somewhere online, or you can ask in
    a forum and get an answer.

    > >Peter's statement is wrong because discontinuing support does not have
    > >any effect on the installed base of software other that if you have a
    > >problem with it the manufacturer isn't going to help you.

    >
    > "Other than" is the affect. (Yes, you wrote "other that", but I
    > assume you mean "other than".) What might happen in the future
    > certainly affects the program. If you can't use it, you've been
    > affected.


    the software will continue to work as it always has.

    > >So? The installed base of CS is not "30 day trial versions.

    >
    > It most certainly can be. That's how trials work. You download the
    > trial, use it for 30 days, and - if you purchase the program - enter a
    > key that stops it from crippling itself.


    install base means active users, not those who tried it and didn't buy
    it. trial users are by definition *not* the install base.
     
    nospam, Jun 15, 2013
    #91
  12. Paul Ciszek

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Tony Cooper
    <> wrote:

    > >> If a publisher discontinues support, the usability of that software will
    > >> be very much affected.

    > >
    > >Only to those who need support from the manufacturer. Personally the
    > >one time I've talked to a software publisher about support some manager
    > >at my end forced me to do it and the phone call, which went for 12
    > >hours, simply got in the way of my working the problem, which I finally
    > >resolved independently of what the "support" weenie on the other end was
    > >telling me. If I hadn't had that "support" forced on me I would have
    > >had the job done in half the time.
    > >

    > I agree with you about the value of the software's "support" team. If
    > I have a problem, I'll research the problem on the web and try to find
    > the answer from some user group. The only time I've gone direct to
    > the source was calling Norton to find out how to completely eradicate
    > Norton from my system. That required going up several levels of
    > "support".


    except for that other time you went direct to the vendor, corel. there
    no doubt were other times you aren't disclosing either.

    here's what you said in the other post:
    > I went through this with Corel and WordPerfect. I had a perfectly
    > usable version that did everything I wanted it to do...until something
    > went wrong. Corel declined support unless I upgraded to a newer
    > version with features that I don't need or want. The software was on
    > my computer, but unusable. That, I think, qualifies as "affects".


    and by the way, i needed to remove norton on a machine a couple of
    years ago and found the norton uninstall utility with a google search.
    no need to call them at all.
     
    nospam, Jun 15, 2013
    #92
  13. Paul Ciszek

    nospam Guest

    In article <2013061419092737709-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
    Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    > > If a publisher discontinues support, the usability of that software
    > > will be very much affected.

    >
    > Not really. Not everybody chases the latest, and greatest, or even
    > needs that support.


    correct.

    > The usability of software with discontinued support remains as usable
    > as it always was. I know of individuals happily pottering away with PS7.
    > I also know of some individuals using old PPC Macs with the long dead,
    > unsupported Mac version of Word Perfect. Those folks find that
    > unsupported software quite usable.


    some with even older systems and software.
     
    nospam, Jun 15, 2013
    #93
  14. Paul Ciszek

    J. Clarke Guest

    In article <51bbc00e$0$8368$-secrets.com>,
    says...
    >
    > On 6/14/2013 8:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
    > > In article <>, tonycooper214
    > > @gmail.com says...
    > >>
    > >> On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 18:55:46 -0400, nospam <>
    > >> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> In article <51bb9a42$0$8368$-secrets.com>, peternew
    > >>> <> wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>>> But If anyone supcribes to whatever CS verions they'll have, if a person
    > >>>>> decides to stick with that version and NOT upgrade to the lastest OS and
    > >>>>> adopbe decide to support only current OS's does that mean they'll remove my
    > >>>>> old CS from my computer because they don;t want to support it but will
    > >>>>> continue to charge me a subscription to adobe software what I can't use.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> nothing is removed from your computer, however, you will need to pay to
    > >>>> keep it active.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way.
    > >>>
    > >>> .........
    > >>>> Until Adobe decides to discontinue support.
    > >>>
    > >>> wrong.
    > >>
    > >> What is "wrong" about Peter's statement?
    > >>
    > >> Do you just automatically write "wrong" when replying to anything?

    > >
    > > No, he's saying that the statment that Adobe discontinuing support will
    > > not affect older software in any way. Novell has long since
    > > discontinued support on Netware 2.0. It still runs fine if you have
    > > hardware old enough that it is supported by the included drivers. IBM
    > > long ago dropped support on OS/2. My PS/2 Model 77 still runs fine.
    > > Microsoft long since dropped support on Windows 2000. My old Thinkpad
    > > still boots up any time I want to play with it.
    > >
    > > Peter's statement is wrong because discontinuing support does not have
    > > any effect on the installed base of software other that if you have a
    > > problem with it the manufacturer isn't going to help you.
    > >

    > And that cold be major for a lot of people.


    If Adobe products were that bugladen then nobody would be using them.
     
    J. Clarke, Jun 15, 2013
    #94
  15. Paul Ciszek

    J. Clarke Guest

    In article <51bbbfae$0$8368$-secrets.com>,
    says...
    >
    > On 6/14/2013 8:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
    > > In article <>, tonycooper214
    > > @gmail.com says...
    > >>
    > >> On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 18:55:46 -0400, nospam <>
    > >> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> In article <51bb9a42$0$8368$-secrets.com>, peternew
    > >>> <> wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>>> But If anyone supcribes to whatever CS verions they'll have, if a person
    > >>>>> decides to stick with that version and NOT upgrade to the lastest OS and
    > >>>>> adopbe decide to support only current OS's does that mean they'll remove my
    > >>>>> old CS from my computer because they don;t want to support it but will
    > >>>>> continue to charge me a subscription to adobe software what I can't use.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> nothing is removed from your computer, however, you will need to pay to
    > >>>> keep it active.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way.
    > >>>
    > >>> .........
    > >>>> Until Adobe decides to discontinue support.
    > >>>
    > >>> wrong.
    > >>
    > >> What is "wrong" about Peter's statement?
    > >>
    > >> Do you just automatically write "wrong" when replying to anything?

    > >
    > > No, he's saying that the statment that Adobe discontinuing support will
    > > not affect older software in any way. Novell has long since
    > > discontinued support on Netware 2.0. It still runs fine if you have
    > > hardware old enough that it is supported by the included drivers. IBM
    > > long ago dropped support on OS/2. My PS/2 Model 77 still runs fine.
    > > Microsoft long since dropped support on Windows 2000. My old Thinkpad
    > > still boots up any time I want to play with it.
    > >

    >
    > Of course if yu continue the same use, and still continue to use a
    > camera format that is currently supported the software will still run.
    > But, once you start exchanging files, getting a different camera, with a
    > different format, or simply get a new machine, you may very well have
    > issues with the software.
    > Yes, I have an old Toshiba laptop, that runs fine under Windows2, but it
    > isn't really very useful, from a practical standpoint. It has no
    > Internet access, only a parallel and serial port, plus a floppy drive. I
    > suppose i could cobble something to make the machine somewhat
    > functional, but I would rather play with photographs.


    So you're expecting CS6 to continue to get fancy new features and
    support for new cameras in perpetuity without your ever having to pay
    any more money? Adobe has _never_ worked that way. The old sofware
    continues to do everything that it did before support was dropped and
    support never included feature updates or drivers for new hardware, so
    you're demanding that Adobe change their support policy now.
     
    J. Clarke, Jun 15, 2013
    #95
  16. Paul Ciszek

    J. Clarke Guest

    In article <>, tonycooper214
    @gmail.com says...
    >
    > On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 19:57:20 -0400, nospam <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >In article <>, Tony Cooper
    > ><> wrote:
    > >
    > >> >> > But If anyone supcribes to whatever CS verions they'll have, if a person
    > >> >> > decides to stick with that version and NOT upgrade to the lastest OS and
    > >> >> > adopbe decide to support only current OS's does that mean they'll remove
    > >> >> > my old CS from my computer because they don;t want to support it but will
    > >> >> > continue to charge me a subscription to adobe software what I can't use.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> nothing is removed from your computer, however, you will need to pay to
    > >> >> keep it active.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way.
    > >> >
    > >> >.........
    > >> >> Until Adobe decides to discontinue support.
    > >> >
    > >> >wrong.
    > >>
    > >> What is "wrong" about Peter's statement?

    > >
    > >the discussion was about adobe removing software. i said that won't
    > >happen, then peter said it will happen when adobe discontinues support.
    > >
    > >
    > >that's completely wrong.
    > >
    > >subscription based software will stop working when the user stops
    > >paying. no surprise there. however, it won't be deleted, nor will
    > >anything else on the computer.
    > >
    > >where do people come up with these crazy ideas anyway?
    > >
    > >> Do you just automatically write "wrong" when replying to anything?

    > >
    > >only when it's wrong.

    >
    > Nothing was "wrong" in what Peter said, and that's what you replied
    > to.
    >
    > >> >support has absolutely nothing to do with it. the software is *never*
    > >> >removed from a computer unless the user explicitly deletes it.
    > >>
    > >> There's no mention of removing software by Peter.

    > >
    > >there was by whisky dave, which began the sub-thread.
    > >
    > >try to keep up.

    >
    > Why, then, write "wrong" in reply to Peter's post in which he said
    > *nothing* about software removal? Talk about not keeping up.
    >
    > You whine and carry on when you feel something you said was "twisted",
    > but you twist other people's comments. Just admit that you made an
    > error and replied to the wrong post.
    > >
    > >> I don't know what "support" Peter is thinking of unless it's updates.

    > >
    > >doesn't matter. adobe isn't going to remove software.

    >
    > Well, they can't. It's not that they aren't going to, it's that they
    > can't. They might if they could. What they can do is deactivate it.


    If they deactivate licenses software absent a clear TOS violation then
    they leave themselves open for a whopping huge lawsuit.

    > >> Adobe may very well discontinue update support of older versions of
    > >> CS. That's common in the industry.

    > >
    > >they might, except that's not what this is about.

    >
    > It is if I bring it up. I did.
    >
    > >> I have programs on my computer that the source has made inactive. They
    > >> are 30 day trial versions that I never purchased and have never
    > >> bothered to delete.

    > >
    > >there is no such thing as a trial version if you have the source code.

    >
    > I would say the full program is a trial version if the version can be
    > crippled in 30 days if I don't buy it and enter a key or whatever the
    > source requires me to do to keep in active.


    If you have the source code then you simply remove the provision that
    checks for a key.
     
    J. Clarke, Jun 15, 2013
    #96
  17. Paul Ciszek

    J. Clarke Guest

    In article <51bbc1ad$0$8312$-secrets.com>,
    says...
    >
    > On 6/14/2013 9:01 PM, nospam wrote:
    > > In article <51bbba5c$0$8313$-secrets.com>,
    > > peternew <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> You have a knee jerk reaction. Your statement, in plain English "
    > >> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way." That
    > >> is one complete sentence. had you meant what you now say you meant,
    > >> you wold have me a complete statement like: 'older software (cs6
    > >> and earlier) will not be deactivated, or removed from your
    > >> computer.' If that was what you meant, you certainly did not say
    > >> it.

    > >
    > > the discussion was about software removal by someone other than the
    > > user.

    >
    > Your quoted sentence did not say that.
    >
    > >
    > > regardless, older software is unaffected by anything adobe or anyone
    > > else could do, removal or otherwise. it's fully paid for and
    > > continues to work as it always has.
    > >
    > >> If a publisher discontinues support, the usability of that software
    > >> will be very much affected.

    > >
    > > wrong again. it continues to work exactly the same as it always has.
    > >
    > > if they stop supporting it, there won't be any tech support, bug
    > > fixes or feature updates and compatibility with future hardware or
    > > operating systems. that's all. it won't suddenly stop working when
    > > adobe decides to stop supporting it.

    >
    > You have just described the effect on usability.


    But "support" has never included feature updates or compatibility with
    future hardware or operating systems, not from Adobe anyway. If their
    old version doesn't work with your hardware or operating system the
    solution is for you to buy a new version, not get a free update from
    "support".

    > > nothing stops anyone from keeping an older computer around to run
    > > older software.
    > >

    >
    > Your quoted sentence, to which I responded, said something other than
    > what you ar saying now.
     
    J. Clarke, Jun 15, 2013
    #97
  18. Paul Ciszek

    J. Clarke Guest

    In article <>, tonycooper214
    @gmail.com says...
    >
    > On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 20:57:05 -0400, "J. Clarke"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >In article <>, tonycooper214
    > >@gmail.com says...
    > >>
    > >> On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 18:55:46 -0400, nospam <>
    > >> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >In article <51bb9a42$0$8368$-secrets.com>, peternew
    > >> ><> wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> >> > But If anyone supcribes to whatever CS verions they'll have, if a person
    > >> >> > decides to stick with that version and NOT upgrade to the lastest OS and
    > >> >> > adopbe decide to support only current OS's does that mean they'll remove my
    > >> >> > old CS from my computer because they don;t want to support it but will
    > >> >> > continue to charge me a subscription to adobe software what I can't use.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> nothing is removed from your computer, however, you will need to pay to
    > >> >> keep it active.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> older software (cs6 and earlier) is not affected in any way.
    > >> >
    > >> >.........
    > >> >> Until Adobe decides to discontinue support.
    > >> >
    > >> >wrong.
    > >>
    > >> What is "wrong" about Peter's statement?
    > >>
    > >> Do you just automatically write "wrong" when replying to anything?

    > >
    > >No, he's saying that the statment that Adobe discontinuing support will
    > >not affect older software in any way.

    >
    > Actually, he later posted that he meant that Adobe would not remove
    > software and he was contradicting Whisky Dave, not Peter. It's not a
    > good idea to guess what nospam means. He twists and turns and says
    > "the discussion is about" only what *he* would like the discussion to
    > be about.
    >
    > Besides, it's not really accurate to say that discontinuing support
    > doesn't affect older software in any way. The software remains on the
    > system and remains usable...until there's a problem.


    Then you figure out what changed and unchange it.

    > I went through this with Corel and WordPerfect. I had a perfectly
    > usable version that did everything I wanted it to do...until something
    > went wrong. Corel declined support unless I upgraded to a newer
    > version with features that I don't need or want. The software was on
    > my computer, but unusable. That, I think, qualifies as "affects".


    So why did you not just roll back the system to the working state?

    > >Peter's statement is wrong because discontinuing support does not have
    > >any effect on the installed base of software other that if you have a
    > >problem with it the manufacturer isn't going to help you.

    >
    > "Other than" is the affect. (Yes, you wrote "other that", but I
    > assume you mean "other than".) What might happen in the future
    > certainly affects the program. If you can't use it, you've been
    > affected.


    So you're saying that if you can't use CS6 on the computers that are
    being made 100 years from now you expect Adobe to at no charge upgrade
    it for you? I'm sorry, but their support has never included that kind
    of upgrade. Even if they continued full support for it forever they
    would not provide you that kind of patch.

    > >So? The installed base of CS is not "30 day trial versions.

    >
    > It most certainly can be. That's how trials work. You download the
    > trial, use it for 30 days, and - if you purchase the program - enter a
    > key that stops it from crippling itself.


    What is your point?
     
    J. Clarke, Jun 15, 2013
    #98
  19. Paul Ciszek

    J. Clarke Guest

    In article <51bbc55c$0$8325$-secrets.com>,
    says...
    >
    > On 6/14/2013 9:11 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > >
    > > Only to those who need support from the manufacturer. Personally the
    > > one time I've talked to a software publisher about support some manager
    > > at my end forced me to do it and the phone call, which went for 12
    > > hours, simply got in the way of my working the problem, which I finally
    > > resolved independently of what the "support" weenie on the other end was
    > > telling me. If I hadn't had that "support" forced on me I would have
    > > had the job done in half the time.
    > >
    > >

    > Yup! I have often said that I twice achieved the almost impossible. I
    > has an issue where MS said it was an hP problem, and HP said it was a MS
    > problem. Somehow, I actually was able to set up a conference call withe
    > the HP and the MS tech, and got them discussing the problem with each
    > other. (the other was getting a group of twelve practicing orthopedists
    > to agree.)
    > However, I do not think that most graphic artists and photographers do
    > not have the level of sophistication necessary to solve those issues, as
    > you did.
    > I was thinking along lines of usability with future formats and
    > machines, plus limitation on the ability to collaborate.


    But "support" from Adobe does not now and has never included upgrades to
    work with "future formats". They have always required you to purchase a
    new version to obtain that capability.
     
    J. Clarke, Jun 15, 2013
    #99
  20. Paul Ciszek

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, J. Clarke
    <> wrote:

    > If their
    > old version doesn't work with your hardware or operating system the
    > solution is for you to buy a new version, not get a free update from
    > "support".


    or buy an older machine on ebay or elsewhere, probably for very little
    money too.
     
    nospam, Jun 15, 2013
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