Re: A little nostalgia this morning

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by tony cooper, Jul 3, 2010.

  1. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 19:38:20 -0700, "John Sisker" <>
    wrote:

    >"Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
    >news:2010070217590116807-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
    >> For those who care, a 1948 Hudson Commodore, downtown this morning.
    >>
    >> < http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/DNC3644w.jpg >
    >>
    >> --
    >> Regards,
    >>
    >> Savageduck
    >>

    >
    >
    >Interesting picture of the car itself, but the photo looks like nothing more
    >than my typical travel snapshots. A slightly different angle would have been
    >much better, plus some serious cropping for a better composition, and if you
    >actually intended that reflection, that could have been done much better as
    >well. In this particular case, I would assume that you did have amply time
    >in taking the picture, even with the possibility of using different lenses
    >and/or special effects.
    >


    Interesting critique, John. Feel free to offer a critique on my
    recent photograph of an automobile. Note that there are no
    distracting reflections.

    No special effects were used. While I could have used my Bondo or my
    Turtle Wax filter, I didn't.

    http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/Current-Favorite-Shot/2010-06-30-003/919446485_6YMQ7-XL.jpg



    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Jul 3, 2010
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 20:06:41 -0700, Savageduck
    <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    >On 2010-07-02 19:47:41 -0700, tony cooper <> said:
    >
    >> On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 19:38:20 -0700, "John Sisker" <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:2010070217590116807-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
    >>>> For those who care, a 1948 Hudson Commodore, downtown this morning.
    >>>>
    >>>> < http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/DNC3644w.jpg >
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Regards,
    >>>>
    >>>> Savageduck
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Interesting picture of the car itself, but the photo looks like nothing more
    >>> than my typical travel snapshots. A slightly different angle would have been
    >>> much better, plus some serious cropping for a better composition, and if you
    >>> actually intended that reflection, that could have been done much better as
    >>> well. In this particular case, I would assume that you did have amply time
    >>> in taking the picture, even with the possibility of using different lenses
    >>> and/or special effects.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Interesting critique, John. Feel free to offer a critique on my
    >> recent photograph of an automobile. Note that there are no
    >> distracting reflections.
    >>
    >> No special effects were used. While I could have used my Bondo or my
    >> Turtle Wax filter, I didn't.
    >>
    >> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/Current-Favorite-Shot/2010-06-30-003/919446485_6YMQ7-XL.jpg

    >
    >I'm
    >>

    >thankful you took care of those annoying reflections there Tony. A fine
    >capture of American iron.
    >Thinking of a full restoration are you?


    Naw, the car I saw that day that I would like to restore was this one:
    http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/Current-Favorite-Shot/2010-06-30-002/919446464_RcCHu-XL.jpg
    Being a Hoosier by birth, I've always had a soft spot for Studebakers.



    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Jul 3, 2010
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. tony cooper

    Guest

    On Jul 3, 12:33 pm, "John Sisker" <> wrote:

    >
    > Since we're off the subject of photography itself and on to cars instead,
    > for what it is worth, here is a photo of my favorate car.
    >
    > http://www.tinplatedesign.com/Cars.jpg
    >
    > John Sisker - Huntington Beach, California


    At first glance reminded me of the Oscar Meyer weinermobile.. :/
    Weird body the way it's not proportional as far as the roof and
    windshield.
     
    , Jul 3, 2010
    #3
  4. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 10:33:40 -0700, "John Sisker" <>
    wrote:

    >"tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 20:06:41 -0700, Savageduck
    >> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On 2010-07-02 19:47:41 -0700, tony cooper <>
    >>>said:
    >>>
    >>>> On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 19:38:20 -0700, "John Sisker" <>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:2010070217590116807-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
    >>>>>> For those who care, a 1948 Hudson Commodore, downtown this morning.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> < http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/DNC3644w.jpg >
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> --
    >>>>>> Regards,
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Savageduck
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Interesting picture of the car itself, but the photo looks like nothing
    >>>>> more
    >>>>> than my typical travel snapshots. A slightly different angle would have
    >>>>> been
    >>>>> much better, plus some serious cropping for a better composition, and
    >>>>> if you
    >>>>> actually intended that reflection, that could have been done much
    >>>>> better as
    >>>>> well. In this particular case, I would assume that you did have amply
    >>>>> time
    >>>>> in taking the picture, even with the possibility of using different
    >>>>> lenses
    >>>>> and/or special effects.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Interesting critique, John. Feel free to offer a critique on my
    >>>> recent photograph of an automobile. Note that there are no
    >>>> distracting reflections.
    >>>>
    >>>> No special effects were used. While I could have used my Bondo or my
    >>>> Turtle Wax filter, I didn't.
    >>>>
    >>>> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/Current-Favorite-Shot/2010-06-30-003/919446485_6YMQ7-XL.jpg
    >>>
    >>>I'm
    >>>>
    >>>thankful you took care of those annoying reflections there Tony. A fine
    >>>capture of American iron.
    >>>Thinking of a full restoration are you?

    >>
    >> Naw, the car I saw that day that I would like to restore was this one:
    >> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/Current-Favorite-Shot/2010-06-30-002/919446464_RcCHu-XL.jpg
    >> Being a Hoosier by birth, I've always had a soft spot for Studebakers.
    >> --
    >> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

    >
    >
    >
    >Since we're off the subject of photography itself and on to cars instead,
    >for what it is worth, here is a photo of my favorate car.
    >
    >http://www.tinplatedesign.com/Cars.jpg
    >


    Yes, it figures you would like one with advertising on it.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Jul 3, 2010
    #4
  5. tony cooper

    J. Clarke Guest

    On 7/3/2010 3:59 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2010-07-03 12:31:51 -0700, "John Sisker" <> said:
    >
    >> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
    >> news:2010070311230675249-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
    >>> On 2010-07-03 11:15:21 -0700, tony cooper
    >>> <> said:
    >>>
    >>>> On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 10:33:40 -0700, "John Sisker" <>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> "tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:...
    >>>>>> On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 20:06:41 -0700, Savageduck
    >>>>>> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On 2010-07-02 19:47:41 -0700, tony cooper
    >>>>>>> <>
    >>>>>>> said:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 19:38:20 -0700, "John Sisker"
    >>>>>>>> <>
    >>>>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
    >>>>>>>>> news:2010070217590116807-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
    >>>>>>>>>> For those who care, a 1948 Hudson Commodore, downtown this
    >>>>>>>>>> morning.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> < http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/DNC3644w.jpg >
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> --
    >>>>>>>>>> Regards,
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Savageduck
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Interesting picture of the car itself, but the photo looks like
    >>>>>>>>> nothing
    >>>>>>>>> more
    >>>>>>>>> than my typical travel snapshots. A slightly different angle
    >>>>>>>>> would have
    >>>>>>>>> been
    >>>>>>>>> much better, plus some serious cropping for a better
    >>>>>>>>> composition, and
    >>>>>>>>> if you
    >>>>>>>>> actually intended that reflection, that could have been done much
    >>>>>>>>> better as
    >>>>>>>>> well. In this particular case, I would assume that you did have
    >>>>>>>>> amply
    >>>>>>>>> time
    >>>>>>>>> in taking the picture, even with the possibility of using
    >>>>>>>>> different
    >>>>>>>>> lenses
    >>>>>>>>> and/or special effects.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Interesting critique, John. Feel free to offer a critique on my
    >>>>>>>> recent photograph of an automobile. Note that there are no
    >>>>>>>> distracting reflections.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> No special effects were used. While I could have used my Bondo
    >>>>>>>> or my
    >>>>>>>> Turtle Wax filter, I didn't.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/Current-Favorite-Shot/2010-06-30-003/919446485_6YMQ7-XL.jpg
    >>>>>>>>

    >
    > I'm
    >
    > thankful
    >
    > you
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> took care of those annoying reflections there Tony. A fine
    >>>>>>> capture of American iron.
    >>>>>>> Thinking of a full restoration are you?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Naw, the car I saw that day that I would like to restore was this
    >>>>>> one:
    >>>>>> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/Current-Favorite-Shot/2010-06-30-002/919446464_RcCHu-XL.jpg
    >>>>>>

    > Being
    >
    > a
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Hoosier by birth, I've always had a soft spot for Studebakers.
    >>>>>> --
    >>>>>> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Since we're off the subject of photography itself and on to cars
    >>>>> instead,
    >>>>> for what it is worth, here is a photo of my favorate car.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://www.tinplatedesign.com/Cars.jpg
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Yes, it figures you would like one with advertising on it.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Well it is just a short drive from Huntington Beach to Anaheim, and
    >>> all that Disney fun, and fine examples of classic vehicles John loves
    >>>
    >>> BTW, I was almost tempted to rework my original image in this post to
    >>> crop, remove reflection, and blur the background, and then I
    >>> remembered who prompted that thought bubble.
    >>> --
    >>> Regards, Savageduck

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> There's classic vehicles at Disneyland - where?

    >
    > Now that was sarcasm, but I quess you missed it.
    >
    >> It must have been a long time since you have been there, if you were
    >> ever there at all.

    >
    > Been there, done that. That was a long time ago, I didn't buy the
    > Tee-shirt, or the ears. That was only because an overseas visitor wanted
    > the experience. From my point of view, money wasted, a perfect example
    > of ugly American artificiality and corporate greed. I am not impressed
    > with, and I don't like what Disneyland/World is selling.


    The last time I was at Disneyland, there were many vehicles in the
    parking lot that are now considered classics. Back then though they
    were just "late model sedans".

    > Give me the National Parks, Yosemite, Zion, Sequoia-Kings Canyon, the
    > Redwoods, Adirondacks, Death Valley, or Big Sur for real "fun" and America.
    > ...but that is not you is it?
    >
    >> Actually, a trip to Disney would not hurt you, it is indeed fun, and
    >> fun is definitely something you seem to need. It appears that you are
    >> taking everything way too serious.
    >>
    >> John Sisker - Huntington Beach, California

    >
    > I gave up on serious 2 1/2 years ago. I have had my fill of serious
    > ...and I don't have to regress to some sort of 8 year old, or support an
    > organization like Disney to have fun.
    >
    >
     
    J. Clarke, Jul 3, 2010
    #5
  6. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 12:59:54 -0700, Savageduck
    <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    >Been there, done that. That was a long time ago, I didn't buy the
    >Tee-shirt, or the ears. That was only because an overseas visitor
    >wanted the experience. From my point of view, money wasted, a perfect
    >example of ugly American artificiality and corporate greed. I am not
    >impressed with, and I don't like what Disneyland/World is selling.
    >Give me the National Parks, Yosemite, Zion, Sequoia-Kings Canyon, the
    >Redwoods, Adirondacks, Death Valley, or Big Sur for real "fun" and
    >America.
    >...but that is not you is it?


    I have only been to Disney World (Orlando's park) with small children
    in tow. I didn't pay any attention to the plasticity or the
    artificialness of the place because I was watching the absolute, pure
    joy of the kids. What you call "corporate greed" is what I call an
    exchange of value for money. Every time I've been to Disney with the
    kids the value of the good time they had was more than the money I
    exchanged for the day.

    In most of the national parks you mention, corporate greed displaced
    the native peoples who originally inhabited that area. We have
    Yosemite because greedy gold miners discovered the area, the railroad
    barons opened up travel to that area, and California troops (the
    Mariposa Battalion) cleaned out the Miwoks, the Chowchillas, and the
    Ahwahneechee Indians.

    It was a Savage - James Savage - who led the Mariposa Battalion. He
    was a gold miner who wanted the Indians out because they bothered his
    greedy plans to take gold from the Merced River.

    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Jul 4, 2010
    #6
  7. tony cooper

    Peter Guest

    "Allen" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Savageduck wrote:
    > <snip>
    >> Been there, done that. That was a long time ago, I didn't buy the
    >> Tee-shirt, or the ears. That was only because an overseas visitor wanted
    >> the experience. From my point of view, money wasted, a perfect example of
    >> ugly American artificiality and corporate greed. I am not impressed with,
    >> and I don't like what Disneyland/World is selling.
    >> Give me the National Parks, Yosemite, Zion, Sequoia-Kings Canyon, the
    >> Redwoods, Adirondacks, Death Valley, or Big Sur for real "fun" and
    >> America.
    >> ...but that is not you is it?
    >>

    > <snip>
    > Sounds like my son. He went to Disneyland when he was seven years old.
    > Looked around at a lot of things. When he left he said to his mother
    > "Everything in there is plastic". That's the only thing he said about it.
    > A few days later we went to Yosemite and then the Grand Canyon, both of
    > which he talked about at length (very favorably). I share your sentiments.



    As do my wife and I. the last time we went, my wife commented that she would
    have liked to hear just one person say "F--- you." I will not discuss going
    on Space Mountain stoned.

    OTOH I really enjoyed EPCOT, I went with some business associates who got us
    some kind of VIP pass. We never waited in line for anything..

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 4, 2010
    #7
  8. tony cooper

    Peter Guest

    "tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 12:59:54 -0700, Savageduck
    > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >
    >>Been there, done that. That was a long time ago, I didn't buy the
    >>Tee-shirt, or the ears. That was only because an overseas visitor
    >>wanted the experience. From my point of view, money wasted, a perfect
    >>example of ugly American artificiality and corporate greed. I am not
    >>impressed with, and I don't like what Disneyland/World is selling.
    >>Give me the National Parks, Yosemite, Zion, Sequoia-Kings Canyon, the
    >>Redwoods, Adirondacks, Death Valley, or Big Sur for real "fun" and
    >>America.
    >>...but that is not you is it?

    >
    > I have only been to Disney World (Orlando's park) with small children
    > in tow. I didn't pay any attention to the plasticity or the
    > artificialness of the place because I was watching the absolute, pure
    > joy of the kids. What you call "corporate greed" is what I call an
    > exchange of value for money. Every time I've been to Disney with the
    > kids the value of the good time they had was more than the money I
    > exchanged for the day.
    >
    > In most of the national parks you mention, corporate greed displaced
    > the native peoples who originally inhabited that area. We have
    > Yosemite because greedy gold miners discovered the area, the railroad
    > barons opened up travel to that area, and California troops (the
    > Mariposa Battalion) cleaned out the Miwoks, the Chowchillas, and the
    > Ahwahneechee Indians.
    >
    > It was a Savage - James Savage - who led the Mariposa Battalion. He
    > was a gold miner who wanted the Indians out because they bothered his
    > greedy plans to take gold from the Merced River.
    >



    We have treated the native American people in a disgustingly shameful
    manner. Technically there is a lot of land that has been stolen from them,
    in addition to those lands we forced them to cede at the point of a gun. Now
    many tribes are using land claims as a lever to extract gaming rights. How
    sad to see the rich culture of these people so reduced.

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 4, 2010
    #8
  9. Peter wrote:
    > "Allen" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Savageduck wrote:
    >> <snip>
    >>> Been there, done that. That was a long time ago, I didn't buy the
    >>> Tee-shirt, or the ears. That was only because an overseas visitor
    >>> wanted the experience. From my point of view, money wasted, a perfect
    >>> example of ugly American artificiality and corporate greed. I am not
    >>> impressed with, and I don't like what Disneyland/World is selling.
    >>> Give me the National Parks, Yosemite, Zion, Sequoia-Kings Canyon, the
    >>> Redwoods, Adirondacks, Death Valley, or Big Sur for real "fun" and
    >>> America.
    >>> ...but that is not you is it?
    >>>

    >> <snip>
    >> Sounds like my son. He went to Disneyland when he was seven years old.
    >> Looked around at a lot of things. When he left he said to his mother
    >> "Everything in there is plastic". That's the only thing he said about
    >> it. A few days later we went to Yosemite and then the Grand Canyon,
    >> both of which he talked about at length (very favorably). I share your
    >> sentiments.

    >
    >
    > As do my wife and I. the last time we went, my wife commented that she
    > would have liked to hear just one person say "F--- you." I will not
    > discuss going on Space Mountain stoned.


    My wife never liked to hear that. What a wonderful wife you have!
    >
    > OTOH I really enjoyed EPCOT, I went with some business associates who
    > got us some kind of VIP pass. We never waited in line for anything..


    Same here, though didn't wait 'cause it was brand new. First Imax I saw,
    and it was hot air balloons rising over a few different chateaux, with
    St. Saens' organ concerto blasting from all sides. Son et lumiere in
    FLA!. What a treat.

    --
    john mcwilliams
     
    John McWilliams, Jul 4, 2010
    #9
  10. Peter wrote:
    > "tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 12:59:54 -0700, Savageduck
    >> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Been there, done that. That was a long time ago, I didn't buy the
    >>> Tee-shirt, or the ears. That was only because an overseas visitor
    >>> wanted the experience. From my point of view, money wasted, a perfect
    >>> example of ugly American artificiality and corporate greed. I am not
    >>> impressed with, and I don't like what Disneyland/World is selling.
    >>> Give me the National Parks, Yosemite, Zion, Sequoia-Kings Canyon, the
    >>> Redwoods, Adirondacks, Death Valley, or Big Sur for real "fun" and
    >>> America.
    >>> ...but that is not you is it?

    >>
    >> I have only been to Disney World (Orlando's park) with small children
    >> in tow. I didn't pay any attention to the plasticity or the
    >> artificialness of the place because I was watching the absolute, pure
    >> joy of the kids. What you call "corporate greed" is what I call an
    >> exchange of value for money. Every time I've been to Disney with the
    >> kids the value of the good time they had was more than the money I
    >> exchanged for the day.
    >>
    >> In most of the national parks you mention, corporate greed displaced
    >> the native peoples who originally inhabited that area. We have
    >> Yosemite because greedy gold miners discovered the area, the railroad
    >> barons opened up travel to that area, and California troops (the
    >> Mariposa Battalion) cleaned out the Miwoks, the Chowchillas, and the
    >> Ahwahneechee Indians.
    >>
    >> It was a Savage - James Savage - who led the Mariposa Battalion. He
    >> was a gold miner who wanted the Indians out because they bothered his
    >> greedy plans to take gold from the Merced River.
    >>

    >
    >
    > We have treated the native American people in a disgustingly shameful
    > manner. Technically there is a lot of land that has been stolen from
    > them, in addition to those lands we forced them to cede at the point of
    > a gun. Now many tribes are using land claims as a lever to extract
    > gaming rights. How sad to see the rich culture of these people so reduced.


    Indeed. "Progress". I don't know of a single piece of land discovered by
    any nation and then occupied by them where it was much different. There
    must be some, somewhere, and I'd like to hear about them.

    --
    John McWilliams
     
    John McWilliams, Jul 4, 2010
    #10
  11. tony cooper

    Peter Guest

    "John McWilliams" <> wrote in message
    news:i0or2n$r16$-september.org...
    > Peter wrote:
    >> "Allen" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Savageduck wrote:
    >>> <snip>
    >>>> Been there, done that. That was a long time ago, I didn't buy the
    >>>> Tee-shirt, or the ears. That was only because an overseas visitor
    >>>> wanted the experience. From my point of view, money wasted, a perfect
    >>>> example of ugly American artificiality and corporate greed. I am not
    >>>> impressed with, and I don't like what Disneyland/World is selling.
    >>>> Give me the National Parks, Yosemite, Zion, Sequoia-Kings Canyon, the
    >>>> Redwoods, Adirondacks, Death Valley, or Big Sur for real "fun" and
    >>>> America.
    >>>> ...but that is not you is it?
    >>>>
    >>> <snip>
    >>> Sounds like my son. He went to Disneyland when he was seven years old.
    >>> Looked around at a lot of things. When he left he said to his mother
    >>> "Everything in there is plastic". That's the only thing he said about
    >>> it. A few days later we went to Yosemite and then the Grand Canyon, both
    >>> of which he talked about at length (very favorably). I share your
    >>> sentiments.

    >>
    >>
    >> As do my wife and I. the last time we went, my wife commented that she
    >> would have liked to hear just one person say "F--- you." I will not
    >> discuss going on Space Mountain stoned.

    >
    > My wife never liked to hear that. What a wonderful wife you have!


    Thank you.
    Like me she grew up as a street from NYC and both of us call thigs pretty
    much as we see them. She always had a sense of humor. (she once shot a cop
    with a water pistol.) though the dumbest thing she ever did as stick with me
    all these years. When we met she was just 15. this year will be our 50th
    anniversy. We plan to go the the Panama Canal to celebrate.




    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 4, 2010
    #11
  12. tony cooper

    Peter Guest

    "John McWilliams" <> wrote in message
    news:i0or72$r16$-september.org...
    > Peter wrote:
    >> "tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 12:59:54 -0700, Savageduck
    >>> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Been there, done that. That was a long time ago, I didn't buy the
    >>>> Tee-shirt, or the ears. That was only because an overseas visitor
    >>>> wanted the experience. From my point of view, money wasted, a perfect
    >>>> example of ugly American artificiality and corporate greed. I am not
    >>>> impressed with, and I don't like what Disneyland/World is selling.
    >>>> Give me the National Parks, Yosemite, Zion, Sequoia-Kings Canyon, the
    >>>> Redwoods, Adirondacks, Death Valley, or Big Sur for real "fun" and
    >>>> America.
    >>>> ...but that is not you is it?
    >>>
    >>> I have only been to Disney World (Orlando's park) with small children
    >>> in tow. I didn't pay any attention to the plasticity or the
    >>> artificialness of the place because I was watching the absolute, pure
    >>> joy of the kids. What you call "corporate greed" is what I call an
    >>> exchange of value for money. Every time I've been to Disney with the
    >>> kids the value of the good time they had was more than the money I
    >>> exchanged for the day.
    >>>
    >>> In most of the national parks you mention, corporate greed displaced
    >>> the native peoples who originally inhabited that area. We have
    >>> Yosemite because greedy gold miners discovered the area, the railroad
    >>> barons opened up travel to that area, and California troops (the
    >>> Mariposa Battalion) cleaned out the Miwoks, the Chowchillas, and the
    >>> Ahwahneechee Indians.
    >>>
    >>> It was a Savage - James Savage - who led the Mariposa Battalion. He
    >>> was a gold miner who wanted the Indians out because they bothered his
    >>> greedy plans to take gold from the Merced River.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> We have treated the native American people in a disgustingly shameful
    >> manner. Technically there is a lot of land that has been stolen from
    >> them, in addition to those lands we forced them to cede at the point of a
    >> gun. Now many tribes are using land claims as a lever to extract gaming
    >> rights. How sad to see the rich culture of these people so reduced.

    >
    > Indeed. "Progress". I don't know of a single piece of land discovered by
    > any nation and then occupied by them where it was much different. There
    > must be some, somewhere, and I'd like to hear about them.
    >



    Me neither, but it doesn't make it right. Major problems arise we the ousted
    people come back to re-claim the land. Maybe I'm getting too idealistic as I
    get older.

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 4, 2010
    #12
  13. Peter wrote:
    > "John McWilliams" <> wrote in message
    > news:i0or2n$r16$-september.org...
    >> Peter wrote:
    >>> "Allen" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>> Savageduck wrote:
    >>>> <snip>
    >>>>> Been there, done that. That was a long time ago, I didn't buy the
    >>>>> Tee-shirt, or the ears. That was only because an overseas visitor
    >>>>> wanted the experience. From my point of view, money wasted, a
    >>>>> perfect example of ugly American artificiality and corporate greed.
    >>>>> I am not impressed with, and I don't like what Disneyland/World is
    >>>>> selling.
    >>>>> Give me the National Parks, Yosemite, Zion, Sequoia-Kings Canyon,
    >>>>> the Redwoods, Adirondacks, Death Valley, or Big Sur for real "fun"
    >>>>> and America.
    >>>>> ...but that is not you is it?
    >>>>>
    >>>> <snip>
    >>>> Sounds like my son. He went to Disneyland when he was seven years
    >>>> old. Looked around at a lot of things. When he left he said to his
    >>>> mother "Everything in there is plastic". That's the only thing he
    >>>> said about it. A few days later we went to Yosemite and then the
    >>>> Grand Canyon, both of which he talked about at length (very
    >>>> favorably). I share your sentiments.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> As do my wife and I. the last time we went, my wife commented that
    >>> she would have liked to hear just one person say "F--- you." I will
    >>> not discuss going on Space Mountain stoned.

    >>
    >> My wife never liked to hear that. What a wonderful wife you have!

    >
    > Thank you.
    > Like me she grew up as a street from NYC and both of us call thigs
    > pretty much as we see them. She always had a sense of humor. (she once
    > shot a cop with a water pistol.) though the dumbest thing she ever did
    > as stick with me all these years. When we met she was just 15. this year
    > will be our 50th anniversy. We plan to go the the Panama Canal to
    > celebrate.


    Good on ya'! Both!
    Hope your trip is great, and be sure to take a cell phone camera, a
    compact, a DSLR, and a large format film camera, but don't get weighed
    down.....

    --
    John McWilliams
     
    John McWilliams, Jul 4, 2010
    #13
  14. tony cooper

    Peter Guest

    "John McWilliams" <> wrote in message
    news:i0osdq$t5b$-september.org...
    > Peter wrote:
    >> "John McWilliams" <> wrote in message
    >> news:i0or2n$r16$-september.org...
    >>> Peter wrote:
    >>>> "Allen" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:...
    >>>>> Savageduck wrote:
    >>>>> <snip>
    >>>>>> Been there, done that. That was a long time ago, I didn't buy the
    >>>>>> Tee-shirt, or the ears. That was only because an overseas visitor
    >>>>>> wanted the experience. From my point of view, money wasted, a perfect
    >>>>>> example of ugly American artificiality and corporate greed. I am not
    >>>>>> impressed with, and I don't like what Disneyland/World is selling.
    >>>>>> Give me the National Parks, Yosemite, Zion, Sequoia-Kings Canyon, the
    >>>>>> Redwoods, Adirondacks, Death Valley, or Big Sur for real "fun" and
    >>>>>> America.
    >>>>>> ...but that is not you is it?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> <snip>
    >>>>> Sounds like my son. He went to Disneyland when he was seven years old.
    >>>>> Looked around at a lot of things. When he left he said to his mother
    >>>>> "Everything in there is plastic". That's the only thing he said about
    >>>>> it. A few days later we went to Yosemite and then the Grand Canyon,
    >>>>> both of which he talked about at length (very favorably). I share your
    >>>>> sentiments.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> As do my wife and I. the last time we went, my wife commented that she
    >>>> would have liked to hear just one person say "F--- you." I will not
    >>>> discuss going on Space Mountain stoned.
    >>>
    >>> My wife never liked to hear that. What a wonderful wife you have!

    >>
    >> Thank you.
    >> Like me she grew up as a street from NYC and both of us call thigs pretty
    >> much as we see them. She always had a sense of humor. (she once shot a
    >> cop with a water pistol.) though the dumbest thing she ever did as stick
    >> with me all these years. When we met she was just 15. this year will be
    >> our 50th anniversy. We plan to go the the Panama Canal to celebrate.

    >
    > Good on ya'! Both!
    > Hope your trip is great, and be sure to take a cell phone camera, a
    > compact, a DSLR, and a large format film camera, but don't get weighed
    > down.....



    Won't be until January. We will take two DSLRs and three lenses. I learned
    from our Alaska trip last year, that these trips are not about photography.

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 4, 2010
    #14
  15. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 22:39:13 -0400, "Peter"
    <> wrote:


    >>> We have treated the native American people in a disgustingly shameful
    >>> manner. Technically there is a lot of land that has been stolen from
    >>> them, in addition to those lands we forced them to cede at the point of a
    >>> gun. Now many tribes are using land claims as a lever to extract gaming
    >>> rights. How sad to see the rich culture of these people so reduced.

    >>
    >> Indeed. "Progress". I don't know of a single piece of land discovered by
    >> any nation and then occupied by them where it was much different. There
    >> must be some, somewhere, and I'd like to hear about them.
    >>

    >Me neither, but it doesn't make it right. Major problems arise we the ousted
    >people come back to re-claim the land. Maybe I'm getting too idealistic as I
    >get older.


    Where you live was probably, at one time, wrested away from a native
    American. Going to give it back?


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Jul 4, 2010
    #15
  16. tony cooper

    Remmy Martin Guest

    On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 23:20:45 -0400, tony cooper
    <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 22:39:13 -0400, "Peter"
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>> We have treated the native American people in a disgustingly shameful
    >>>> manner. Technically there is a lot of land that has been stolen from
    >>>> them, in addition to those lands we forced them to cede at the point of a
    >>>> gun. Now many tribes are using land claims as a lever to extract gaming
    >>>> rights. How sad to see the rich culture of these people so reduced.
    >>>
    >>> Indeed. "Progress". I don't know of a single piece of land discovered by
    >>> any nation and then occupied by them where it was much different. There
    >>> must be some, somewhere, and I'd like to hear about them.
    >>>

    >>Me neither, but it doesn't make it right. Major problems arise we the ousted
    >>people come back to re-claim the land. Maybe I'm getting too idealistic as I
    >>get older.

    >
    >Where you live was probably, at one time, wrested away from a native
    >American. Going to give it back?


    In my Will it is. It took some research because the history of which
    1st-Nations tribes originally inhabited my land was so thoroughly destroyed
    by christians that I could only pin it down to two tribes who have existing
    ties today. First beneficiary is a 1st-Nations friend, but he claims he
    doesn't want the land (he has plenty of his own). If that is still the case
    at the time then the land goes to the two tribes. To undo just a miniscule
    portion of the damage that christian-infected Europeans caused to the
    people and this land.

    Some of you likewise need to put up or shut up with your empty words.
     
    Remmy Martin, Jul 4, 2010
    #16
  17. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 20:20:41 -0700, Savageduck
    <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    >That is probably true for most family groups with young children and
    >grandchildren. An easy way to entertain the kids, and probably good
    >value for that purpose. I can appreciate that. However, regardless of
    >some of the value Disney provided through some of their great nature
    >productions, they distort and simplify much of our history.


    Hell, Duck, the Texas school board is doing more to distort history
    than Disney will ever do. Kansas legislators make Disney look like
    pikers in this area. Kids grow out of believing in Disney
    characterizations, but they are growing up in some states being taught
    not to believe in evolution.
    >


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Jul 4, 2010
    #17
  18. "John Sisker" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Since we're off the subject of photography itself and on to cars instead,
    > for what it is worth, here is a photo of my favorate car.
    >
    > http://www.tinplatedesign.com/Cars.jpg


    Why doesn't a primary coloured Disneyfied kiddy car surprise me? That's your
    authority complex and whiney bitch subconscious screaming right there.
    Transcend yourself, sweetie.


    --
    Charles E Hardwidge
     
    Charles E Hardwidge, Jul 4, 2010
    #18
  19. tony cooper

    Peter Guest

    "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in

    > That is probably true for most family groups with young children and
    > grandchildren. An easy way to entertain the kids, and probably good value
    > for that purpose. I can appreciate that. However, regardless of some of
    > the value Disney provided through some of their great nature productions,
    > they distort and simplify much of our history. It is a personal matter,
    > the corporate level of the operation and the artificiality of it all I
    > (and I know I am a minority here) believe there are better options than
    > that fantasy once those kids have a degree of individual thought to
    > generate.


    For all of us children there must come a time when we must realize Santa
    Clause is only an allegorical figure.

    >
    > Sure that happened throughout our country. Gold miners in Yellowstone,
    > timber in Sequoia, the Redwoods and Tsongas National Forest, Mormon
    > intrusion in Utah, extermination and relocation of native tribes
    > everywhere. We exploited everything, and would have left it all barren
    > wasteland, for wealth.
    > We had a few dedicated pioneers such as John Muir who fought to save that
    > wilderness for the nation. It took political will from individuals such as
    > Teddy Rooseveldt to truly protect them.
    >
    > Yes the railroad barons had their commercial interest in mind when they
    > accessed Yellowstone, Glacier, Grand Canyon, and Yosemite. but they
    > ultimately, whether intentionally, or not provided access to the parks for
    > the average U.S. citizen.
    >
    > Even today these National Parks, Forests, National Monuments, and Civil
    > War Battle fields are lusted after by commercial interests. Just think of
    > the proposed Gettysburg Disney theme park. I shudder at the thought. I can
    > see the Disney Yosemite, Halfdome elevator ride, and El Cap thrill dive.
    > Please just keep them contained in Anaheim and Orlando.


    Fortunately, the concept of a Gettyburgh theme park was rejected.

    >
    > The likes of the politicians such as Cheney and Palin would sell out to
    > those corporate entities to strip the forests, and mine and drill until
    > all that we had was scarred rubble.
    >
    > Excuse me my bias is showing. I need to relax.
    >


    No if you relax those greedy bastards will make our fears become reality.
    As well it should. there are ignorant people who buy into their BS. These
    are the same who deny there is global warming. And rely on Faux for their
    dose of fair and balanced reporting.

    --
    Peter
    Just don't put those windmills where I can see them
     
    Peter, Jul 4, 2010
    #19
  20. tony cooper

    Peter Guest

    "tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 22:39:13 -0400, "Peter"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>> We have treated the native American people in a disgustingly shameful
    >>>> manner. Technically there is a lot of land that has been stolen from
    >>>> them, in addition to those lands we forced them to cede at the point of
    >>>> a
    >>>> gun. Now many tribes are using land claims as a lever to extract gaming
    >>>> rights. How sad to see the rich culture of these people so reduced.
    >>>
    >>> Indeed. "Progress". I don't know of a single piece of land discovered by
    >>> any nation and then occupied by them where it was much different. There
    >>> must be some, somewhere, and I'd like to hear about them.
    >>>

    >>Me neither, but it doesn't make it right. Major problems arise we the
    >>ousted
    >>people come back to re-claim the land. Maybe I'm getting too idealistic as
    >>I
    >>get older.

    >
    > Where you live was probably, at one time, wrested away from a native
    > American. Going to give it back?
    >



    Actually where I live was purchased in a legitimate trade, not at the point
    of a gun. I researched this issue before we moved to the area in 1970.
    But as to you question, I don't really pretend to know the answer. Morally
    those who live on Indian territory have a right to recover from their
    immediate seller. And so on down the daisy chain. If you purchase stolen
    goods do you have a right to keep them.

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 4, 2010
    #20
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