Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by cowboyz, Jul 10, 2003.

  1. cowboyz

    cowboyz Guest

    "Lennier" <> wrote in message
    news:pan.2003.07.10.13.29.10.946440@TRACKER...
    > Wave.co.nz is rejecting email being sent by Xtra customers who do not use
    > Xtra's SMTP server.
    >
    > Lennier
    >
    >
    > --
    > I specifically DENY Xtra, and Telecom NZ Ltd, and all other subsidiaries
    > of Telecom NZ Ltd, the right to use the contents of this digital
    > communication for any purpose whatsoever, whether in whole or in part -
    > regardless of how it is stored or transmitted through Xtra's network.
    >


    why do they care?
    --
    "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."
    cowboyz, Jul 10, 2003
    #1
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  2. cowboyz

    R-Slicks Guest

    I noticed this a few months ago when sending to an AOL recipient.
    The cause was simply that my Jetstart dynamic IP is listed as
    'residential' and residential customers shouldn't be running servers.
    Therefore AOL decided it must, of course, be spam and rejected the
    message. I now have to push all my mail through Ihug's smtp server.
    It's bullshit but short of going Jetstream, getting a static IP and
    hence more than doubling my yearly access costs, what can I do ?





    On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:45:20 +1200, Lennier
    <> wrote:

    >On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:21:00 +1200, Peter Murray wrote:
    >
    >>> > Wave.co.nz is rejecting email being sent by Xtra customers who do not

    >> use
    >>> > Xtra's SMTP server.
    >>> >

    >>
    >>>
    >>> why do they care?

    >>
    >> Is it an anti-spam measure?

    >
    >I don't know about that.
    >
    >I do know that my server is not an open relay, and that wave.co.nz
    >wouldn't accept email from my server, citing that I should be using
    >Xtra's server to send email.
    >
    >No other ISP so far has rejected email from my server (not that I send
    >large quantities of email), and Wave.co.nz DID accept that email when I
    >re-sent it using smtp.xtra.co.nz .
    >
    >I have received a reply from Wave.co.nz asking for more information, which
    >I have provided. So far, their server is still not accepting a connection
    >from my server when I'm connected through Xtra.
    >
    >Lennier


    --
    DO NOT reply to - it is simply a spam catch.
    You can, if you wish, try "news .at. preou .dot. com"
    R-Slicks, Jul 12, 2003
    #2
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  3. cowboyz

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:05:25 +1200, R-Slicks <>
    wrote:

    >I noticed this a few months ago when sending to an AOL recipient.
    >The cause was simply that my Jetstart dynamic IP is listed as
    >'residential' and residential customers shouldn't be running servers.


    >Therefore AOL decided it must, of course, be spam and rejected the
    >message.


    AOL would not know that your service was "residential". AOL refuse
    emails if they can't do a reverse lookup on the IP address that is
    trying to send to them.

    >
    >I now have to push all my mail through Ihug's smtp server.
    >It's bullshit but short of going Jetstream, getting a static IP and
    >hence more than doubling my yearly access costs, what can I do ?
    >

    Not a lot.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    Signed and sealed with Great Seal of the Executive
    Council of the Internet, by The Master of The Net.
    Enkidu, Jul 12, 2003
    #3
  4. In article <>,
    says...
    > I noticed this a few months ago when sending to an AOL recipient.
    > The cause was simply that my Jetstart dynamic IP is listed as
    > 'residential' and residential customers shouldn't be running servers.
    > Therefore AOL decided it must, of course, be spam and rejected the
    > message. I now have to push all my mail through Ihug's smtp server.
    > It's bullshit but short of going Jetstream, getting a static IP and
    > hence more than doubling my yearly access costs, what can I do ?
    >


    Not only that, but to totally solve the conundrum you'll need a
    registered domain for that fixed IP as well. More than doubling your
    cost...

    I.M.H.O. it's not worth the bother since it is absolutely no bloody skin
    off my nose to use my ISPs SMTP as a relay (other than finding the
    software to do it well at my end).

    -Peter
    Peter Huebner, Jul 13, 2003
    #4
  5. On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:05:25 +1200, R-Slicks wrote:

    > I noticed this a few months ago when sending to an AOL recipient. The
    > cause was simply that my Jetstart dynamic IP is listed as 'residential'
    > and residential customers shouldn't be running servers. Therefore AOL
    > decided it must, of course, be spam and rejected the message. I now have
    > to push all my mail through Ihug's smtp server. It's bullshit but short
    > of going Jetstream, getting a static IP and hence more than doubling my
    > yearly access costs, what can I do ?


    For starters, trim your followups and don't top post.

    Secondly, some ISPs _ARE_ offering Jetstart with static IPs. It can be
    done, but not with Xtra.

    Look for an ISP whose tech support desk have $CLUE when you ask them curly
    questions.
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Jul 13, 2003
    #5
  6. On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:03:51 +1200, Lennier wrote:

    >> Secondly, some ISPs _ARE_ offering Jetstart with static IPs. It can be
    >> done, but not with Xtra.

    >
    > Which ones?


    Ask around. of the ones I know were doing it before I left NZ, 2 have lost
    all staff with clue and 2 are defunct.
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Jul 14, 2003
    #6
  7. cowboyz

    R-Slicks Guest

    I have a domain already and use dns2go to resolve it to my IP address.
    This has worked just fine for nearly two years.



    On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:11:25 +1200, Peter Huebner
    <> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > says...
    >> I noticed this a few months ago when sending to an AOL recipient.
    >> The cause was simply that my Jetstart dynamic IP is listed as
    >> 'residential' and residential customers shouldn't be running servers.
    >> Therefore AOL decided it must, of course, be spam and rejected the
    >> message. I now have to push all my mail through Ihug's smtp server.
    >> It's bullshit but short of going Jetstream, getting a static IP and
    >> hence more than doubling my yearly access costs, what can I do ?
    >>

    >
    >Not only that, but to totally solve the conundrum you'll need a
    >registered domain for that fixed IP as well. More than doubling your
    >cost...
    >
    >I.M.H.O. it's not worth the bother since it is absolutely no bloody skin
    >off my nose to use my ISPs SMTP as a relay (other than finding the
    >software to do it well at my end).
    >
    >-Peter


    --
    DO NOT reply to - it is simply a spam catch.
    You can, if you wish, try "news .at. preou .dot. com"
    R-Slicks, Jul 14, 2003
    #7
  8. cowboyz

    R-Slicks Guest

    On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 02:22:30 +0000, "Uncle StoatWarbler"
    <> wrote:

    >On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:05:25 +1200, R-Slicks wrote:
    >
    >> I noticed this a few months ago when sending to an AOL recipient. The
    >> cause was simply that my Jetstart dynamic IP is listed as 'residential'
    >> and residential customers shouldn't be running servers. Therefore AOL
    >> decided it must, of course, be spam and rejected the message. I now have
    >> to push all my mail through Ihug's smtp server. It's bullshit but short
    >> of going Jetstream, getting a static IP and hence more than doubling my
    >> yearly access costs, what can I do ?

    >
    >For starters, trim your followups and don't top post.
    >
    >Secondly, some ISPs _ARE_ offering Jetstart with static IPs. It can be
    >done, but not with Xtra.
    >
    >Look for an ISP whose tech support desk have $CLUE when you ask them curly
    >questions.


    Frankly I really don't understand the problem with top posting, though
    notice that this one is at the bottom. Nevertheless, Ill try to apease
    the masses in future. The followup wasn't that big.
    I'm with Ihug, not Xtra - please also enlighten us as to the ISPs that
    offer Static IPs. I have to say, though, that despite the general
    slating that Ihug get pretty much all the time I have never had a
    problem with them in the 7 years I have been with them through
    dial-up, Ultra and now JetStart. I have no idea how good or bad their
    tech support is as I have never had a problem to call them with. Who
    do you use, are you happy with them, and do they have $CLUE ?

    ($CLUE ? what the hell is that anyway, as I can't seem to find *any*
    words starting with $ in my dictionary...)

    --
    DO NOT reply to - it is simply a spam catch.
    You can, if you wish, try "news .at. preou .dot. com"
    R-Slicks, Jul 14, 2003
    #8
  9. cowboyz

    R-Slicks Guest

    On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:03:06 +1200, Enkidu <> wrote:

    >There is no way that they can find out. They are guessing, probably
    >based on the host name as returned by reverse DNS lookup.
    >
    >The only information that is reliable that they can extract from the
    >headers is the IP address of the sender. This they can reverse look up
    >to find out if firstly the IP address *has* a host and Domain Name
    >associated with it, and secondly they can make decisions based on the
    >name to guess if it is a dynamic (hence residential) one.
    >
    >There is no way within the SMTP protocol that AOL can decide that a
    >particular address is "residential". It must come from outside the
    >SMTP protocol, and I don't believe that AOL has access to a list of
    >iHug or Xtra "residential" addresses.
    >
    >Cheers,
    >
    >Cliff


    Fairy Nuff
    I just report what happened ! :)
    Either way, I can't send directly to AOL :-(
    Mind you, of course, that may not be such a loss ! <G>

    --
    DO NOT reply to - it is simply a spam catch.
    You can, if you wish, try "news .at. preou .dot. com"
    R-Slicks, Jul 14, 2003
    #9
  10. On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:56:26 +1200, Lennier wrote:

    > One question...
    >
    > Does AOL publish all their user's email addresses on a website somewhere?


    What, all 40+ million of them? (more, each user can have up to 5 addresses
    active at any one time)

    Do you think they need to? Spammers use dictionary attacks.
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Jul 15, 2003
    #10
  11. cowboyz

    pbs Guest

    Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted throughXtra's SMTP server

    Enkidu wrote:
    > On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:05:25 +1200, R-Slicks <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I noticed this a few months ago when sending to an AOL recipient.
    >>The cause was simply that my Jetstart dynamic IP is listed as
    >>'residential' and residential customers shouldn't be running servers.

    >
    >
    >>Therefore AOL decided it must, of course, be spam and rejected the
    >>message.

    >
    >
    > AOL would not know that your service was "residential". AOL refuse
    > emails if they can't do a reverse lookup on the IP address that is
    > trying to send to them.
    >
    >
    >>I now have to push all my mail through Ihug's smtp server.
    >>It's bullshit but short of going Jetstream, getting a static IP and
    >>hence more than doubling my yearly access costs, what can I do ?
    >>

    >
    > Not a lot.


    Here are two things you can do:

    I have an account with an internet provider who issues sub domain name.
    although I am using ezysurf as I could not work out how to use sendmail
    without a subdomain I kept my UK service active by dialing into it
    occasionaly and hence kept the (sub)domain.

    nslookup
    > lserver pridns1.svr.pol.co.uk.

    Default server: pridns1.svr.pol.co.uk.
    Address: 195.92.193.4#53
    > lomarline.freeserve.co.uk

    Server: pridns1.svr.pol.co.uk.
    Address: 195.92.193.4#53

    lomarline.freeserve.co.uk mail exchanger = 2 mail-in.pol.net.uk.
    lomarline.freeserve.co.uk text = "1054815323"
    > quit


    I use fetchmail to get any stuff which is on the mail servers and I
    sendmail relay through the ezysurf's usual smtp server.

    Or you could do what a friend of mine in Scotland does. Find a domain
    name provider who allows dynamic updating of IP addersses against
    domain names. This is an edited version of the email he sent me
    last year

    : With a dynamic IP that you get from BT broadband its quite
    : difficult to get round the problem of ones IP changing everytime
    : you (or more likely BT) drop your line. What you have to do is
    : re-register each time at your domain name server - this is possible
    : with some DNS companies - you have to run a process on your pc to
    : detect the change of IP and then upload the new IP to the DNS all
    : automatically when the new IP is detected. Then you can have a
    : real webserver running against your own domain name.
    :
    : Get a domain name eg "www.adomain.com", I used uk2net.com, it
    : costs almost nothing. Maybe you have one already.
    : re-register it. Login in to uk2net and find your way through to the
    : place it says you can change the domain name server.
    : use zoneedit.com as the new domain name server. (It has the steps for
    : doing all this stuff and is worth a read)
    pbs, Jul 17, 2003
    #11
  12. cowboyz

    Lennier Guest

    Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

    On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 02:22:30 +0000, Uncle StoatWarbler wrote:

    > Secondly, some ISPs _ARE_ offering Jetstart with static IPs. It can be
    > done, but not with Xtra.


    Which ones?

    Lennier

    --
    I specifically DENY Xtra, and Telecom NZ Ltd, and all other subsidiaries
    of Telecom NZ Ltd, the right to use the contents of this digital
    communication for any purpose whatsoever, whether in whole or in part -
    regardless of how it is stored or transmitted through Xtra's network.
    Lennier, Nov 21, 2003
    #12
  13. cowboyz

    Lennier Guest

    Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

    On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:22:21 +0000, Uncle StoatWarbler wrote:

    >>> Secondly, some ISPs _ARE_ offering Jetstart with static IPs. It can be
    >>> done, but not with Xtra.

    >>
    >> Which ones?

    >
    > Ask around.


    Um... I think I just did... :eek:)

    Lennier

    --
    I specifically DENY Xtra, and Telecom NZ Ltd, and all other subsidiaries
    of Telecom NZ Ltd, the right to use the contents of this digital
    communication for any purpose whatsoever, whether in whole or in part -
    regardless of how it is stored or transmitted through Xtra's network.
    Lennier, Nov 21, 2003
    #13
  14. cowboyz

    Lennier Guest

    Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

    On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:21:00 +1200, Peter Murray wrote:

    >> > Wave.co.nz is rejecting email being sent by Xtra customers who do not

    > use
    >> > Xtra's SMTP server.
    >> >

    >
    >>
    >> why do they care?

    >
    > Is it an anti-spam measure?


    I don't know about that.

    I do know that my server is not an open relay, and that wave.co.nz
    wouldn't accept email from my server, citing that I should be using
    Xtra's server to send email.

    No other ISP so far has rejected email from my server (not that I send
    large quantities of email), and Wave.co.nz DID accept that email when I
    re-sent it using smtp.xtra.co.nz .

    I have received a reply from Wave.co.nz asking for more information, which
    I have provided. So far, their server is still not accepting a connection
    from my server when I'm connected through Xtra.

    Lennier

    --
    I specifically DENY Xtra, and Telecom NZ Ltd, and all other subsidiaries
    of Telecom NZ Ltd, the right to use the contents of this digital
    communication for any purpose whatsoever, whether in whole or in part -
    regardless of how it is stored or transmitted through Xtra's network.
    Lennier, Nov 21, 2003
    #14
  15. cowboyz

    Lennier Guest

    Re: A certain organisation rejecting email if not posted through Xtra's SMTP server

    On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:22:25 +0000, Uncle StoatWarbler wrote:

    > Spam now accounts for something like 85% of all inbound AOL mail. They're
    > adopting extreme measures simply to keep their mailsystems alive.


    One question...

    Does AOL publish all their user's email addresses on a website somewhere?

    Lennier

    --
    I specifically DENY Xtra, and Telecom NZ Ltd, and all other subsidiaries
    of Telecom NZ Ltd, the right to use the contents of this digital
    communication for any purpose whatsoever, whether in whole or in part -
    regardless of how it is stored or transmitted through Xtra's network.
    Lennier, Nov 21, 2003
    #15
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