Re: 300d black body

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by J?rg Preddimann, Jul 11, 2004.

  1. Mark Spacey <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > canon have started rolling out black bodied 300d
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0404/04040801eos300dblack.asp
    > only in japan at the moment
    > the 300d in silver was a marketing disaster given the d70
    > people paying £600 + do not want a digital slr that looks like a £4.99
    > instamatitic, canon should switch to all black bodies NOW and see sales
    > go through the roof, come on canon get your act together


    More importantly than fixing the appearance of the camera's exterior,
    Canon should strongly consider fixing the main problem INSIDE the
    300D/Rebel--the mass produced (outsourced at sweat shops throughout
    the poorest sections of Asia) inferior version of the already horrible
    grayscale CMOS found in the 10D. Canon should consider switching to
    Foveon sensors if they want to be around in 5 years.

    --

    Jörg Preddimann
     
    J?rg Preddimann, Jul 11, 2004
    #1
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  2. J?rg Preddimann

    adm Guest

    "J?rg Preddimann" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Mark Spacey <> wrote in message

    news:<>...
    > > canon have started rolling out black bodied 300d
    > > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0404/04040801eos300dblack.asp
    > > only in japan at the moment
    > > the 300d in silver was a marketing disaster given the d70
    > > people paying £600 + do not want a digital slr that looks like a £4.99
    > > instamatitic, canon should switch to all black bodies NOW and see sales
    > > go through the roof, come on canon get your act together

    >
    > More importantly than fixing the appearance of the camera's exterior,
    > Canon should strongly consider fixing the main problem INSIDE the
    > 300D/Rebel--the mass produced (outsourced at sweat shops throughout
    > the poorest sections of Asia) inferior version of the already horrible
    > grayscale CMOS found in the 10D. Canon should consider switching to
    > Foveon sensors if they want to be around in 5 years.


    George,

    This is a stupid post even by your standards.

    Since when have ANY CMOS devices ever been produced in "sweat shops" ?
     
    adm, Jul 11, 2004
    #2
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  3. In article <>, adm
    <> wrote:

    > > More importantly than fixing the appearance of the camera's exterior,
    > > Canon should strongly consider fixing the main problem INSIDE the
    > > 300D/Rebel--the mass produced (outsourced at sweat shops throughout
    > > the poorest sections of Asia) inferior version of the already horrible
    > > grayscale CMOS found in the 10D. Canon should consider switching to
    > > Foveon sensors if they want to be around in 5 years.

    >
    > George,
    >
    > This is a stupid post even by your standards.
    >
    > Since when have ANY CMOS devices ever been produced in "sweat shops" ?


    If Foveon is so great, how come nobody is buying them. Hint: they suck!
     
    Randall Ainsworth, Jul 11, 2004
    #3
  4. J?rg Preddimann

    Crownfield Guest

    adm wrote:
    >
    > "J?rg Preddimann" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Mark Spacey <> wrote in message

    > news:<>...
    > > > canon have started rolling out black bodied 300d
    > > > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0404/04040801eos300dblack.asp
    > > > only in japan at the moment
    > > > the 300d in silver was a marketing disaster given the d70
    > > > people paying £600 + do not want a digital slr that looks like a £4.99
    > > > instamatitic, canon should switch to all black bodies NOW and see sales
    > > > go through the roof, come on canon get your act together

    > >
    > > More importantly than fixing the appearance of the camera's exterior,
    > > Canon should strongly consider fixing the main problem INSIDE the
    > > 300D/Rebel--the mass produced (outsourced at sweat shops throughout
    > > the poorest sections of Asia) inferior version of the already horrible
    > > grayscale CMOS found in the 10D. Canon should consider switching to
    > > Foveon sensors if they want to be around in 5 years.

    >
    > George,
    >
    > This is a stupid post even by your standards.
    >
    > Since when have ANY CMOS devices ever been produced in "sweat shops" ?


    if sigma sensors are produced in sweatshops,
    it would explain the blotchy color.
     
    Crownfield, Jul 11, 2004
    #4
  5. J?rg Preddimann

    jean Guest

    "Randall Ainsworth" <> a écrit dans le message de
    news:110720040922383585%...
    > In article <>, adm
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > > > More importantly than fixing the appearance of the camera's exterior,
    > > > Canon should strongly consider fixing the main problem INSIDE the
    > > > 300D/Rebel--the mass produced (outsourced at sweat shops throughout
    > > > the poorest sections of Asia) inferior version of the already horrible
    > > > grayscale CMOS found in the 10D. Canon should consider switching to
    > > > Foveon sensors if they want to be around in 5 years.

    > >
    > > George,
    > >
    > > This is a stupid post even by your standards.
    > >
    > > Since when have ANY CMOS devices ever been produced in "sweat shops" ?

    >
    > If Foveon is so great, how come nobody is buying them. Hint: they suck!


    Indeed, in the french magazine "Chasseur d'images" no 263, they tested many
    of the current DSLRs and the SD10's signal to noise level at ISO 200 (38dB)
    is only slightly better than the 300D at ISO 800 (37dB). At 1600, the
    SD10's is very low at 29dB compared to the 300D at 36dB. Their conclusion
    is "amazing sensor, BUT the image quality starts to degrade at a very rapid
    rate even at ISO 200 and especially at ISO 400"

    The very best the SD10 can do concerning signal to noise ratio is 42 dB at
    ISO 100 compared to 50dB at ISO 200 for the Canon EOS 1D Mark II (the very
    best).

    Jean
     
    jean, Jul 12, 2004
    #5
  6. J?rg Preddimann

    TP Guest

    "jean" <look_for@my_email.org> wrote:
    >
    >The very best the SD10 can do concerning signal to noise ratio is 42 dB at
    >ISO 100 compared to 50dB at ISO 200 for the Canon EOS 1D Mark II (the very
    >best).



    These are very interesting figures. Did they also test the Nikon D70
    and Olympus E-1? What were the signal to noise ratios for those
    cameras at ISO 100 and 200?
     
    TP, Jul 12, 2004
    #6
  7. J?rg Preddimann

    Bodo Malo Guest

    > >The very best the SD10 can do concerning signal to noise ratio is 42 dB at
    > >ISO 100 compared to 50dB at ISO 200 for the Canon EOS 1D Mark II (the very
    > >best).

    >
    >
    > These are very interesting figures. Did they also test the Nikon D70
    > and Olympus E-1? What were the signal to noise ratios for those
    > cameras at ISO 100 and 200?



    I'll show you what the SD10 produces at night exposure (ISO 100, 30sec)
    and what the D70 produces (ISO 200 =lowest , 30 sec)

    SD10 picture
    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/SigmaSD10/Samples/Night/IMG10084.jpg


    D70 picture
    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/NikonD70/Samples/Night/DSC_0003.jpg

    any more comments needed?

    Bodo
     
    Bodo Malo, Jul 12, 2004
    #7
  8. J?rg Preddimann

    TP Guest

    "Bodo Malo" <> wrote:>
    >I'll show you what the SD10 produces at night exposure (ISO 100, 30sec)
    >and what the D70 produces (ISO 200 =lowest , 30 sec)
    >SD10 picture
    >http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/SigmaSD10/Samples/Night/IMG10084.jpg
    >D70 picture
    >http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/NikonD70/Samples/Night/DSC_0003.jpg
    >any more comments needed?



    Well, I did ask about the Olympus E-1!

    But thanks for posting those links. The D70 is a remarkable
    performer. I don't know why anyone would want to buy the D100 when
    the D70 is cheaper and so much better in terms of image quality.
     
    TP, Jul 12, 2004
    #8
  9. J?rg Preddimann

    Bodo Malo Guest

    >These are very interesting figures. Did they also test the Nikon D70
    >and Olympus E-1? What were the signal to noise ratios for those
    >cameras at ISO 100 and 200?


    > >I'll show you what the SD10 produces at night exposure (ISO 100, 30sec)
    > >and what the D70 produces (ISO 200 =lowest , 30 sec)
    > >SD10 picture
    > >http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/SigmaSD10/Samples/Night/IMG10084.jpg
    > >D70 picture
    > >http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/NikonD70/Samples/Night/DSC_0003.jpg
    > >any more comments needed?

    >
    >
    > Well, I did ask about the Olympus E-1!



    Sorry, I thought you asked about both cameras - D70 and E1
    The E1 has also a good picture quality, but much more noise at high iso levels (800, 1600)

    Also I think the camera is too expensive and doesn't offer a lot of lenses.


    > But thanks for posting those links. The D70 is a remarkable
    > performer. I don't know why anyone would want to buy the D100 when
    > the D70 is cheaper and so much better in terms of image quality.


    Maybe because of the metal body. There are no other reasons to buy the D100.
    Anyway the D100 will be replaced this fall, there is no reason to buy it anymore.
     
    Bodo Malo, Jul 12, 2004
    #9
  10. J?rg Preddimann

    TP Guest

    "Bodo Malo" <> wrote:
    >
    >Sorry, I thought you asked about both cameras - D70 and E1


    Yes, I did. But I own the E-1.

    >The E1 has also a good picture quality, but much more noise at high iso levels (800, 1600)
    >Also I think the camera is too expensive and doesn't offer a lot of lenses.


    I use an E-1 and three lenses for a variety of paid work, and find it
    offers outstanding picture quality for a 5MP camera. As it is a very
    robust and (sp far completely) reliable pro quality camera body, I
    don't think it is expensive compared to its pro quality competition.

    However, if you are prepared to accept a consumer-grade standard of
    build and feature set, I agree that there are cheaper alternatives.

    As for lenses, the Zuiko range for the E-1 is superb. I can also use
    most OM Zuiko lenses with an adapter.

    I was interested to know whether the Chasseur d'Images report included
    the Olympus E-1.
     
    TP, Jul 12, 2004
    #10
  11. J?rg Preddimann

    jean Guest

    "TP" <> a écrit dans le message de
    news:...
    > "jean" <look_for@my_email.org> wrote:
    > >
    > >The very best the SD10 can do concerning signal to noise ratio is 42 dB

    at
    > >ISO 100 compared to 50dB at ISO 200 for the Canon EOS 1D Mark II (the

    very
    > >best).

    >
    >
    > These are very interesting figures. Did they also test the Nikon D70
    > and Olympus E-1? What were the signal to noise ratios for those
    > cameras at ISO 100 and 200?
    >


    The D70 at ISO 200 had 42dB of signal to noise ratio (41 at 400, 39 at 800
    and 37 at 1600)

    The Olympus E1 at ISO 100 had 43dB of signal to noise ratio (42 at 200, 40
    at 400, 39 at 800 and 34 at 1600, 30 at 3200)

    Jean
     
    jean, Jul 12, 2004
    #11
  12. J?rg Preddimann

    jean Guest

    "Bodo Malo" <> a écrit dans le message de
    news:...
    > > >The very best the SD10 can do concerning signal to noise ratio is 42 dB

    at
    > > >ISO 100 compared to 50dB at ISO 200 for the Canon EOS 1D Mark II (the

    very
    > > >best).

    > >
    > >
    > > These are very interesting figures. Did they also test the Nikon D70
    > > and Olympus E-1? What were the signal to noise ratios for those
    > > cameras at ISO 100 and 200?

    >
    >
    > I'll show you what the SD10 produces at night exposure (ISO 100, 30sec)
    > and what the D70 produces (ISO 200 =lowest , 30 sec)
    >
    > SD10 picture
    > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/SigmaSD10/Samples/Night/IMG10084.jpg
    >
    >
    > D70 picture
    > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/NikonD70/Samples/Night/DSC_0003.jpg
    >
    > any more comments needed?
    >
    > Bodo


    Very interesting images, at least with these there is no question as to
    which camera took them, the EXIF information is intact. The SD10 does a
    worse job than my old Collpix 4500 with it's smaller and potentially worse
    sensor.

    Jean
     
    jean, Jul 12, 2004
    #12
  13. J?rg Preddimann

    kosh Guest


    > > Since when have ANY CMOS devices ever been produced in "sweat shops" ?


    very different from what people report who have actually been to the
    factory.....

    kosh
     
    kosh, Jul 12, 2004
    #13
  14. J?rg Preddimann

    Crownfield Guest

    Bodo Malo wrote:
    >
    > > >The very best the SD10 can do concerning signal to noise ratio is 42 dB at
    > > >ISO 100 compared to 50dB at ISO 200 for the Canon EOS 1D Mark II (the very
    > > >best).

    > >
    > >
    > > These are very interesting figures. Did they also test the Nikon D70
    > > and Olympus E-1? What were the signal to noise ratios for those
    > > cameras at ISO 100 and 200?

    >
    > I'll show you what the SD10 produces at night exposure (ISO 100, 30sec)
    > and what the D70 produces (ISO 200 =lowest , 30 sec)
    >
    > SD10 picture
    > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/SigmaSD10/Samples/Night/IMG10084.jpg
    >
    > D70 picture
    > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/NikonD70/Samples/Night/DSC_0003.jpg
    >
    > any more comments needed?


    but look at how well the sd10 renders
    the rainbow color pattern in the shadows.

    the d70 completely missed all the rainbow!!


    >
    > Bodo
     
    Crownfield, Jul 12, 2004
    #14
  15. J?rg Preddimann

    Alan Browne Guest

    Bodo Malo wrote:

    >
    > I'll show you what the SD10 produces at night exposure (ISO 100, 30sec)
    > and what the D70 produces (ISO 200 =lowest , 30 sec)


    For an equivalent exposure value beqteen the two, the D70 should
    have been 15 seconds, not 30. Is that how you did it?

    In any case, the SD10 is certainly crap.


    >
    > SD10 picture
    > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/SigmaSD10/Samples/Night/IMG10084.jpg
    >
    >
    > D70 picture
    > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/NikonD70/Samples/Night/DSC_0003.jpg



    --
    -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
    -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
     
    Alan Browne, Jul 12, 2004
    #15
  16. "TP" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > But thanks for posting those links. The D70 is a remarkable
    > performer. I don't know why anyone would want to buy the D100 when
    > the D70 is cheaper and so much better in terms of image quality.
    >

    The D100 is probably going to be replaced at Photokina, the D70 is a great
    camera. But I can see a D200(?) and a D2X being released at Photokina 2004
    this Fall.

    http://www.photokina.de
     
    Darrell Larose, Jul 13, 2004
    #16
  17. J?rg Preddimann

    Skip M Guest

    http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
    "Darrell Larose" <> wrote in message
    news:vbIIc.4$...
    >
    > "TP" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > >
    > > But thanks for posting those links. The D70 is a remarkable
    > > performer. I don't know why anyone would want to buy the D100 when
    > > the D70 is cheaper and so much better in terms of image quality.
    > >

    > The D100 is probably going to be replaced at Photokina, the D70 is a great
    > camera. But I can see a D200(?) and a D2X being released at Photokina 2004
    > this Fall.
    >
    > http://www.photokina.de
    >
    >
    >
    >

    Lord knows, Nikon has to do something to keep up with the Canon 10D (which
    also may be replaced) and 1D mkII. The D70 certainly took some wind out of
    the sails of the RebelD, at least technologically speaking...

    --
    Skip Middleton
     
    Skip M, Jul 13, 2004
    #17
  18. J?rg Preddimann

    Witold Guest

    Before some questions, I'll just summarise the noise figures that have so
    far been provided:

    ISO100 ISO200 ISO400 ISO800 ISO1600 ISO3200
    Olympus E1 43dB 42dB 40dB 39dB 34dB 30dB
    Sigma SD10 42dB
    Nikon D70 ---- 42dB 41dB 39dB 37dB
    Canon 1D Mk II 50dB

    Were the above noise figures obtained by using a grey card?

    If not, what color was used?

    Was more than one color used for the noise tests?

    As there may be different noise levels associated with different colors, it
    would be interesting to see a matrix of noise figures for something like
    the GretagMacbeth ColorChecker. These figures could then be averaged and a
    standard deviation calculated to see how much variation there was in the
    noise level from one color to another. But then again, it might not show
    anything much beyond the single noise figure.

    --
    Witold.
     
    Witold, Jul 13, 2004
    #18
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