Re: 3-chip really better than 1-chip cams?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Bigguy, Feb 4, 2005.

  1. Bigguy

    Bigguy Guest

    It's 3 x CCDs - one each for Red, Green, Blue.
    Much better colour fidelity and lower noise...

    Guy

    John Ortt wrote:
    > How do three chip cams work? I assume it's not reffering to 3CCD
    > chips but to processing chips......
    >
    >
    > "terry" <> wrote in message
    > news:R8KMd.268910$6l.140617@pd7tw2no...
    >> Where there's a lot of light, like in the mid day sun or brightly lit
    >> department stores 1 chips do give nice pictures. In dim situations
    >> - like say a candle lit wedding the one chips will have a variety of
    >> problems, lost detail, colours will turn to grey(or orange), shadows
    >> will turn to black, auto-focus may become unpredictable. Attempting
    >> to boost it will make it look like a webcam. A three chip will
    >> continue to produce an image as good as the one in the mid-day sun.
    >>
    >>
    >>> Are 3-chip cams really better than 1-chip cams? Side by side with
    >>> the naked eye, I din't notice a whopping difference. Why exactly
    >>> are the 2 extra CCDs worth having?
    Bigguy, Feb 4, 2005
    #1
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  2. Bigguy

    terry Guest

    Where there's a lot of light, like in the mid day sun or brightly lit
    department stores 1 chips do give nice pictures. In dim situations - like
    say a candle lit wedding the one chips will have a variety of problems, lost
    detail, colours will turn to grey(or orange), shadows will turn to black,
    auto-focus may become unpredictable. Attempting to boost it will make it
    look like a webcam. A three chip will continue to produce an image as good
    as the one in the mid-day sun.


    > Are 3-chip cams really better than 1-chip cams? Side by side with the
    > naked eye, I din't notice a whopping difference. Why exactly are the 2
    > extra CCDs worth having?
    >
    terry, Feb 4, 2005
    #2
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  3. Bigguy

    John Ortt Guest

    How do three chip cams work? I assume it's not reffering to 3CCD chips but
    to processing chips......


    "terry" <> wrote in message
    news:R8KMd.268910$6l.140617@pd7tw2no...
    > Where there's a lot of light, like in the mid day sun or brightly lit
    > department stores 1 chips do give nice pictures. In dim situations - like
    > say a candle lit wedding the one chips will have a variety of problems,

    lost
    > detail, colours will turn to grey(or orange), shadows will turn to black,
    > auto-focus may become unpredictable. Attempting to boost it will make it
    > look like a webcam. A three chip will continue to produce an image as

    good
    > as the one in the mid-day sun.
    >
    >
    > > Are 3-chip cams really better than 1-chip cams? Side by side with the
    > > naked eye, I din't notice a whopping difference. Why exactly are the 2
    > > extra CCDs worth having?
    > >

    >
    >
    John Ortt, Feb 4, 2005
    #3
  4. Bigguy

    John Ortt Guest

    How does that work, as they would all have to be on top of one another would
    they not?

    "Bigguy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > It's 3 x CCDs - one each for Red, Green, Blue.
    > Much better colour fidelity and lower noise...
    >
    > Guy
    >
    > John Ortt wrote:
    > > How do three chip cams work? I assume it's not reffering to 3CCD
    > > chips but to processing chips......
    > >
    > >
    > > "terry" <> wrote in message
    > > news:R8KMd.268910$6l.140617@pd7tw2no...
    > >> Where there's a lot of light, like in the mid day sun or brightly lit
    > >> department stores 1 chips do give nice pictures. In dim situations
    > >> - like say a candle lit wedding the one chips will have a variety of
    > >> problems, lost detail, colours will turn to grey(or orange), shadows
    > >> will turn to black, auto-focus may become unpredictable. Attempting
    > >> to boost it will make it look like a webcam. A three chip will
    > >> continue to produce an image as good as the one in the mid-day sun.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>> Are 3-chip cams really better than 1-chip cams? Side by side with
    > >>> the naked eye, I din't notice a whopping difference. Why exactly
    > >>> are the 2 extra CCDs worth having?

    >
    >
    John Ortt, Feb 4, 2005
    #4
  5. Bigguy

    Bigguy Guest

    Incomig light is split into R,G,B by dichroic mirrors/prisms.... each
    component colour falls on its own CCD...
    Green CCD is offset half a pixel to enhance resolution.

    This technique is used in higher end/broadcast camcorders, but not I think
    in stills cameras due to space/cost considerations

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge-coupled_device
    http://www.baslerweb.com/popups/popup_en_768.php

    Guy

    John Ortt wrote:
    > How does that work, as they would all have to be on top of one
    > another would they not?
    >
    > "Bigguy" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> It's 3 x CCDs - one each for Red, Green, Blue.
    >> Much better colour fidelity and lower noise...
    >>
    >> Guy
    >>
    >> John Ortt wrote:
    >>> How do three chip cams work? I assume it's not reffering to 3CCD
    >>> chips but to processing chips......
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "terry" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:R8KMd.268910$6l.140617@pd7tw2no...
    >>>> Where there's a lot of light, like in the mid day sun or brightly
    >>>> lit department stores 1 chips do give nice pictures. In dim
    >>>> situations - like say a candle lit wedding the one chips will have
    >>>> a variety of problems, lost detail, colours will turn to grey(or
    >>>> orange), shadows will turn to black, auto-focus may become
    >>>> unpredictable. Attempting to boost it will make it look like a
    >>>> webcam. A three chip will continue to produce an image as good as
    >>>> the one in the mid-day sun.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> Are 3-chip cams really better than 1-chip cams? Side by side with
    >>>>> the naked eye, I din't notice a whopping difference. Why exactly
    >>>>> are the 2 extra CCDs worth having?
    Bigguy, Feb 4, 2005
    #5
  6. John Ortt wrote:

    > How do three chip cams work? I assume it's not reffering to 3CCD chips but
    > to processing chips......
    >
    >
    > "terry" <> wrote in message
    > news:R8KMd.268910$6l.140617@pd7tw2no...
    >
    >>Where there's a lot of light, like in the mid day sun or brightly lit
    >>department stores 1 chips do give nice pictures. In dim situations - like
    >>say a candle lit wedding the one chips will have a variety of problems,

    >
    > lost
    >
    >>detail, colours will turn to grey(or orange), shadows will turn to black,
    >>auto-focus may become unpredictable. Attempting to boost it will make it
    >>look like a webcam. A three chip will continue to produce an image as

    >
    > good
    >
    >>as the one in the mid-day sun.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>Are 3-chip cams really better than 1-chip cams? Side by side with the
    >>>naked eye, I din't notice a whopping difference. Why exactly are the 2
    >>>extra CCDs worth having?
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >

    No, it really is three CCD chips, each with a different color filter.
    So the red, green, and blue (or whatever color system it is using)
    values for each pixel are truly for that pixel. How much a difference
    in final image depends on what you are going to do with it. With no
    processing, the difference isn't that striking, because the eye has
    limited acuity to chrominance, primarily getting its accuity from
    luminance channel. However, if you are going to be doing a lot of color
    processing of the image, that can have quite an effect.
    Don Stauffer in Minneapolis, Feb 4, 2005
    #6
  7. Bigguy

    Scharf-DCA Guest

    Bigguy wrote:
    > Incomig light is split into R,G,B by dichroic mirrors/prisms.... each
    > component colour falls on its own CCD...
    > Green CCD is offset half a pixel to enhance resolution.
    >
    > This technique is used in higher end/broadcast camcorders, but not I

    think
    > in stills cameras due to space/cost considerations


    It's used in high end consumer camcorders too. These are all relatively
    low resolution (even the broadcast camcorders) compared to camera
    sensors.

    The technology doesn't scale well to higher resolutions, because it's
    too hard to maintain precise alignment of the multiple sensors and the
    prizm.

    The original Foveon camera that used this technique (three sensors, see
    "http://steves-digicams.com/diginews_jul99.html"), but once higher
    resolution single sensors were introduced, it wasn't needed. Foveon
    tried to stack three sensors on top of each other, and filter the
    colors through the silicon, but it didn't work very well, and the color
    ended up worse than the conventional Bayer sensor, and the noise levels
    were high. You can still buy a camera with the Foveon sensor, the Sigma
    SD10, but it isn't well regarded (see "http://sigmasd10.com"). Foveon
    is going after the low end market now, such as camera phones, and other
    applications where the physical size and cost of the sensor are more
    important.
    Scharf-DCA, Feb 4, 2005
    #7
  8. Bigguy

    Guest

    In message <>,
    "Scharf-DCA" <> wrote:

    >The original Foveon camera that used this technique (three sensors, see
    >"http://steves-digicams.com/diginews_jul99.html"), but once higher
    >resolution single sensors were introduced, it wasn't needed. Foveon
    >tried to stack three sensors on top of each other, and filter the
    >colors through the silicon, but it didn't work very well, and the color
    >ended up worse than the conventional Bayer sensor, and the noise levels
    >were high.


    To be fair, the noise of the total signal is actually low (such as, if
    you added the RAW channels back together for a greyscale image). It is
    only when separating blues and greens that heavy noise surfaces,
    chromatically.
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
    , Feb 5, 2005
    #8
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