RAW question

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by tony cooper, Jun 23, 2008.

  1. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    I have a Nikon D40 that is capable of shooting RAW as a .NEF file, but
    I don't have Capture NX. I have Adobe Photoshop 7.0, but I don't have
    any interest in upgrading to CS. PS7.0 does everything that I need to
    do with this exception.

    Before I pop for Capture NX, I'd like to be sure that there's
    something to be gained. So many people rave about processing in RAW,
    but I've never seen a before and after that shows something that can't
    be done in PS7.

    Anyone have some examples of a .jpg processed as a .jpg, and the same
    shot adjusted in Capture NX and then saved as a .jpg?


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Jun 23, 2008
    #1
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  2. tony cooper

    Chris H Guest

    In message <>, tony cooper
    <> writes
    >I have a Nikon D40 that is capable of shooting RAW as a .NEF file, but
    >I don't have Capture NX. I have Adobe Photoshop 7.0, but I don't have
    >any interest in upgrading to CS. PS7.0 does everything that I need to
    >do with this exception.
    >
    >Before I pop for Capture NX, I'd like to be sure that there's
    >something to be gained. So many people rave about processing in RAW,
    >but I've never seen a before and after that shows something that can't
    >be done in PS7.
    >
    >Anyone have some examples of a .jpg processed as a .jpg, and the same
    >shot adjusted in Capture NX and then saved as a .jpg?


    Have a look at www.dxo.com
    then you will see why RAW is a good idea


    --
    \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
    \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
    \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
    Chris H, Jun 23, 2008
    #2
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  3. tony cooper

    Akiralx Guest

    "tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I have a Nikon D40 that is capable of shooting RAW as a .NEF file, but
    > I don't have Capture NX. I have Adobe Photoshop 7.0, but I don't have
    > any interest in upgrading to CS. PS7.0 does everything that I need to
    > do with this exception.
    >
    > Before I pop for Capture NX, I'd like to be sure that there's
    > something to be gained. So many people rave about processing in RAW,
    > but I've never seen a before and after that shows something that can't
    > be done in PS7.
    >
    > Anyone have some examples of a .jpg processed as a .jpg, and the same
    > shot adjusted in Capture NX and then saved as a .jpg?


    Can't help you on that - but you may get NX cheaply now as an upgraded
    version is coming. True in the UK anyway.
    Akiralx, Jun 23, 2008
    #3
  4. tony cooper wrote:
    > I have a Nikon D40 that is capable of shooting RAW as a .NEF file, but
    > I don't have Capture NX. I have Adobe Photoshop 7.0, but I don't have
    > any interest in upgrading to CS. PS7.0 does everything that I need to
    > do with this exception.
    >
    > Before I pop for Capture NX, I'd like to be sure that there's
    > something to be gained. So many people rave about processing in RAW,
    > but I've never seen a before and after that shows something that can't
    > be done in PS7.
    >
    > Anyone have some examples of a .jpg processed as a .jpg, and the same
    > shot adjusted in Capture NX and then saved as a .jpg?


    There's a free raw converter here:

    http://www.rawtherapee.com/

    which supports the D40. It might be worth a look.

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Jun 23, 2008
    #4
  5. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:05:42 GMT, "David J Taylor"
    <-this-bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk> wrote:

    >tony cooper wrote:
    >> I have a Nikon D40 that is capable of shooting RAW as a .NEF file, but
    >> I don't have Capture NX. I have Adobe Photoshop 7.0, but I don't have
    >> any interest in upgrading to CS. PS7.0 does everything that I need to
    >> do with this exception.
    >>
    >> Before I pop for Capture NX, I'd like to be sure that there's
    >> something to be gained. So many people rave about processing in RAW,
    >> but I've never seen a before and after that shows something that can't
    >> be done in PS7.
    >>
    >> Anyone have some examples of a .jpg processed as a .jpg, and the same
    >> shot adjusted in Capture NX and then saved as a .jpg?

    >
    >There's a free raw converter here:
    >
    > http://www.rawtherapee.com/
    >
    >which supports the D40. It might be worth a look.
    >

    Thanks, I'll try it.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Jun 23, 2008
    #5
  6. tony cooper

    Guest

    On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:16:52 -0400, in rec.photo.digital tony cooper
    <> wrote:

    >Before I pop for Capture NX, I'd like to be sure that there's
    >something to be gained. So many people rave about processing in RAW,
    >but I've never seen a before and after that shows something that can't
    >be done in PS7.


    Capture has a trial period of 60 days, iirc from a previous post. Why
    not not only try raw conversion, but also the tool you think you might
    pay for first?
    , Jun 23, 2008
    #6
  7. tony cooper wrote:

    > I have a Nikon D40 that is capable of shooting RAW as a .NEF file, but
    > I don't have Capture NX. I have Adobe Photoshop 7.0, but I don't have
    > any interest in upgrading to CS. PS7.0 does everything that I need to
    > do with this exception.
    >
    > Before I pop for Capture NX, I'd like to be sure that there's
    > something to be gained. So many people rave about processing in RAW,
    > but I've never seen a before and after that shows something that can't
    > be done in PS7.


    Take a look at The GIMP (graphics editor) and ufraw (raw editor). Both
    free. When you select a .nef to edit in the GIMP, ufraw opens with it,
    and when you're finished, clicking OK sends it to the GIMP. Google as
    needed.


    --
    Blinky
    Is your ISP dropping Usenet?
    Need a new feed?
    http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html
    Blinky the Shark, Jun 23, 2008
    #7
  8. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:07:07 -0400, wrote:

    >On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:16:52 -0400, in rec.photo.digital tony cooper
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>Before I pop for Capture NX, I'd like to be sure that there's
    >>something to be gained. So many people rave about processing in RAW,
    >>but I've never seen a before and after that shows something that can't
    >>be done in PS7.

    >
    >Capture has a trial period of 60 days, iirc from a previous post. Why
    >not not only try raw conversion, but also the tool you think you might
    >pay for first?


    I do understand that both Capture and CS3 have trial demos available.

    Still, I'd like to see some comparative results linked.
    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Jun 23, 2008
    #8
  9. tony cooper

    ray Guest

    On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:16:52 -0400, tony cooper wrote:

    > I have a Nikon D40 that is capable of shooting RAW as a .NEF file, but I
    > don't have Capture NX. I have Adobe Photoshop 7.0, but I don't have any
    > interest in upgrading to CS. PS7.0 does everything that I need to do
    > with this exception.
    >
    > Before I pop for Capture NX, I'd like to be sure that there's something
    > to be gained. So many people rave about processing in RAW, but I've
    > never seen a before and after that shows something that can't be done in
    > PS7.
    >
    > Anyone have some examples of a .jpg processed as a .jpg, and the same
    > shot adjusted in Capture NX and then saved as a .jpg?


    You simply have more to work with. Suggest you try the free ufraw before
    you give up on the concept. With my Kodak P850 I shoot raw 95% of the time
    or more. When you don't need it anyway, then there is probably not much to
    be gained - but if you don't shoot raw and find out that you can't get
    what you want from your jpeg, it's too late. I'd say about half the time
    the jpeg that is included in my raw file is sufficient.
    ray, Jun 23, 2008
    #9
  10. tony cooper

    Cats Guest

    On Jun 23, 6:57 pm, "Wilson" <> wrote:
    > "tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    > >I have a Nikon D40 that is capable of shooting RAW as a .NEF file, but
    > > I don't have Capture NX.  I have Adobe Photoshop 7.0, but I don't have
    > > any interest in upgrading to CS.  PS7.0 does everything that I need to
    > > do with this exception.

    >
    > > Before I pop for Capture NX, I'd like to be sure that there's
    > > something to be gained.  So many people rave about processing in RAW,
    > > but I've never seen a before and after that shows something that can't
    > > be done in PS7.

    >
    > > Anyone have some examples of a .jpg processed as a .jpg, and the same
    > > shot adjusted in Capture NX and then saved as a .jpg?

    >
    > > --

    >
    > You said in another thread that you have PS Elements 5 but rarely used it..
    > I believe it contains Adobe Camera Raw (I know Elements 6 does) which will
    > allow you to adjust, save, and convert your RAW image.  The RAW format gives
    > you much greater latitude in white balance and exposure  adjustments than
    > you would have with a jpg in PS7 and that's one of its advantages.   Camera
    > Raw is simple and quick to use.  When you are done in Camera Raw then you
    > open the image in PS7 and finish your processing.
    >
    > I believe you already have everything you need to process RAW images.  No
    > need to buy anything else if you've got PS Elements 5.


    The only need is to download the latest version of CameraRaw. Seeing
    what that can do with an image is the best way of seeing why shooting
    RAW is usually a good thing. With my camera (don't ask) there is no
    choice as it horribly oversharpens JPGs, and so does the RAW to JPG
    utility it comes with. I have also found RAW very useful for water
    shots, where it's very easy to burn out the highlight areas.
    Cats, Jun 23, 2008
    #10
  11. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:57:14 -0500, "Wilson" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >"tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >>I have a Nikon D40 that is capable of shooting RAW as a .NEF file, but
    >> I don't have Capture NX. I have Adobe Photoshop 7.0, but I don't have
    >> any interest in upgrading to CS. PS7.0 does everything that I need to
    >> do with this exception.
    >>
    >> Before I pop for Capture NX, I'd like to be sure that there's
    >> something to be gained. So many people rave about processing in RAW,
    >> but I've never seen a before and after that shows something that can't
    >> be done in PS7.
    >>
    >> Anyone have some examples of a .jpg processed as a .jpg, and the same
    >> shot adjusted in Capture NX and then saved as a .jpg?
    >>
    >>
    >> --

    >
    >You said in another thread that you have PS Elements 5 but rarely used it.
    >I believe it contains Adobe Camera Raw (I know Elements 6 does) which will
    >allow you to adjust, save, and convert your RAW image. The RAW format gives
    >you much greater latitude in white balance and exposure adjustments than
    >you would have with a jpg in PS7 and that's one of its advantages. Camera
    >Raw is simple and quick to use. When you are done in Camera Raw then you
    >open the image in PS7 and finish your processing.


    Elements 5.0 will not open a .NEF image from a Nikon D40. There is an
    Adobe Plug-In, Camera Raw 4.4.1, that will open some RAW formats, but
    the Nikon D40's output has not yet been added. The D40X is on the
    list, though. There's a hack that makes Elements think the D40's
    output is a D70's, but I haven't tried it.


    >I believe you already have everything you need to process RAW images. No
    >need to buy anything else if you've got PS Elements 5.


    I wish.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Jun 23, 2008
    #11
  12. tony cooper

    Guest

    On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:50:51 -0400, in rec.photo.digital tony cooper
    <> wrote:

    >On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:57:14 -0500, "Wilson" <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>>I have a Nikon D40 that is capable of shooting RAW as a .NEF file, but
    >>> I don't have Capture NX. I have Adobe Photoshop 7.0, but I don't have
    >>> any interest in upgrading to CS. PS7.0 does everything that I need to
    >>> do with this exception.
    >>>
    >>> Before I pop for Capture NX, I'd like to be sure that there's
    >>> something to be gained. So many people rave about processing in RAW,
    >>> but I've never seen a before and after that shows something that can't
    >>> be done in PS7.
    >>>
    >>> Anyone have some examples of a .jpg processed as a .jpg, and the same
    >>> shot adjusted in Capture NX and then saved as a .jpg?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> --

    >>
    >>You said in another thread that you have PS Elements 5 but rarely used it.
    >>I believe it contains Adobe Camera Raw (I know Elements 6 does) which will
    >>allow you to adjust, save, and convert your RAW image. The RAW format gives
    >>you much greater latitude in white balance and exposure adjustments than
    >>you would have with a jpg in PS7 and that's one of its advantages. Camera
    >>Raw is simple and quick to use. When you are done in Camera Raw then you
    >>open the image in PS7 and finish your processing.

    >
    >Elements 5.0 will not open a .NEF image from a Nikon D40. There is an
    >Adobe Plug-In, Camera Raw 4.4.1, that will open some RAW formats, but
    >the Nikon D40's output has not yet been added. The D40X is on the
    >list, though. There's a hack that makes Elements think the D40's
    >output is a D70's, but I haven't tried it.


    Use the Adobe DNG converter to convert the D40 NEF to DNG. I believe
    ACR should then be able to open it.
    , Jun 23, 2008
    #12
  13. tony cooper

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, tony cooper
    <> wrote:

    > >You said in another thread that you have PS Elements 5 but rarely used it.
    > >I believe it contains Adobe Camera Raw (I know Elements 6 does) which will
    > >allow you to adjust, save, and convert your RAW image. The RAW format gives
    > >you much greater latitude in white balance and exposure adjustments than
    > >you would have with a jpg in PS7 and that's one of its advantages. Camera
    > >Raw is simple and quick to use. When you are done in Camera Raw then you
    > >open the image in PS7 and finish your processing.

    >
    > Elements 5.0 will not open a .NEF image from a Nikon D40. There is an
    > Adobe Plug-In, Camera Raw 4.4.1, that will open some RAW formats, but
    > the Nikon D40's output has not yet been added.


    i don't know where you got that idea. the d40 was added to camera raw
    well over a year ago, in version 3.7.

    > The D40X is on the
    > list, though. There's a hack that makes Elements think the D40's
    > output is a D70's, but I haven't tried it.


    that's not necessary.
    nospam, Jun 23, 2008
    #13
  14. tony cooper

    Guest

    On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:57:14 -0500, "Wilson" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >"tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >>I have a Nikon D40 that is capable of shooting RAW as a .NEF file, but
    >> I don't have Capture NX. I have Adobe Photoshop 7.0, but I don't have
    >> any interest in upgrading to CS. PS7.0 does everything that I need to
    >> do with this exception.
    >>
    >> Before I pop for Capture NX, I'd like to be sure that there's
    >> something to be gained. So many people rave about processing in RAW,
    >> but I've never seen a before and after that shows something that can't
    >> be done in PS7.
    >>
    >> Anyone have some examples of a .jpg processed as a .jpg, and the same
    >> shot adjusted in Capture NX and then saved as a .jpg?
    >>
    >>
    >> --

    >
    >You said in another thread that you have PS Elements 5 but rarely used it.
    >I believe it contains Adobe Camera Raw (I know Elements 6 does) which will
    >allow you to adjust, save, and convert your RAW image. The RAW format gives
    >you much greater latitude in white balance and exposure adjustments than
    >you would have with a jpg in PS7 and that's one of its advantages. Camera
    >Raw is simple and quick to use. When you are done in Camera Raw then you
    >open the image in PS7 and finish your processing.
    >
    >I believe you already have everything you need to process RAW images. No
    >need to buy anything else if you've got PS Elements 5.


    I will agree and extend this description to behind the viewfinder.
    Using camera raw I find that "pushing" my shots is MUCH easier than
    it ever was with traditional films. I can under (and less rarely over)
    expose a shot and have the ability to easily adjust the exposure and
    white balance in RAW format in CS3 without hesitation. It's a
    trememnous advantage when you are behind the lense and need that extra
    shutterspeed increase to get the action shots.
    , Jun 24, 2008
    #14
  15. On Jun 23, 10:16 am, tony cooper <> wrote:
    > I have a Nikon D40 that is capable of shooting RAW as a .NEF file, but
    > I don't have Capture NX. I have Adobe Photoshop 7.0, but I don't have
    > any interest in upgrading to CS. PS7.0 does everything that I need to
    > do with this exception.
    >
    > Before I pop for Capture NX, I'd like to be sure that there's
    > something to be gained. So many people rave about processing in RAW,
    > but I've never seen a before and after that shows something that can't
    > be done in PS7.
    >
    > Anyone have some examples of a .jpg processed as a .jpg, and the same
    > shot adjusted in Capture NX and then saved as a .jpg?
    >
    > --
    > Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida


    You have more control with RAW, but you need to be able to do proper
    processing to use it. You can often rescue a bad exposure with a RAW
    file that you could not get good results on if saved in jpeg. Also,
    RAW is essential for HDR processing (which is also a lot of work).

    If you are satisifed with exposures you are getting, you may not need
    RAW. RAW does nothing for resolution, only exposure and tonal
    qualities. It is very helpful for a pro who sometimes absolutely HAS
    to get the shot, even when lighting and exposure conditions are not
    conducive to good exposure.

    Essentially the RAW image has a lot more dynamic range. It has far
    more range than can appear in a normal print. But this means if you
    are making a print you yourself can determine exactly WHAT values from
    the original image appear in that print. The jpeg algorithms do a
    sort of auto-exposure, even if you are SHOOTING in a manual exposure
    mode.
    Don Stauffer in Minnesota, Jun 24, 2008
    #15
  16. tony cooper

    Peter Guest

    "tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I have a Nikon D40 that is capable of shooting RAW as a .NEF file, but
    > I don't have Capture NX. I have Adobe Photoshop 7.0, but I don't have
    > any interest in upgrading to CS. PS7.0 does everything that I need to
    > do with this exception.
    >
    > Before I pop for Capture NX, I'd like to be sure that there's
    > something to be gained. So many people rave about processing in RAW,
    > but I've never seen a before and after that shows something that can't
    > be done in PS7.
    >
    > Anyone have some examples of a .jpg processed as a .jpg, and the same
    > shot adjusted in Capture NX and then saved as a .jpg?
    >



    Tony, I skimmed some of the comments here and there is some pretty good
    advice. Your style of shooting may be very different from mine. you may like
    yours better, or you may like mine better. Internet scaled photos will not
    show to best advantage. Therefore, my best suggestion is to take some shots
    for yourself in both raw and jpeg. play with the images and see for yourself
    if it is worth the difference. I also realize that you must invest in some
    learning curve as few digital manipulation programs are intuitive.

    HTH and have fun.

    --
    Peter
    Peter, Jun 25, 2008
    #16
  17. Don Stauffer in Minnesota wrote:
    > On Jun 23, 10:16 am, tony cooper <> wrote:
    >> I have a Nikon D40 that is capable of shooting RAW as a .NEF file, but
    >> I don't have Capture NX. I have Adobe Photoshop 7.0, but I don't have
    >> any interest in upgrading to CS. PS7.0 does everything that I need to
    >> do with this exception.
    >>
    >> Before I pop for Capture NX, I'd like to be sure that there's
    >> something to be gained. So many people rave about processing in RAW,
    >> but I've never seen a before and after that shows something that can't
    >> be done in PS7.
    >>
    >> Anyone have some examples of a .jpg processed as a .jpg, and the same
    >> shot adjusted in Capture NX and then saved as a .jpg?
    >>
    >> --
    >> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

    >
    > You have more control with RAW, but you need to be able to do proper
    > processing to use it. You can often rescue a bad exposure with a RAW
    > file that you could not get good results on if saved in jpeg. Also,
    > RAW is essential for HDR processing (which is also a lot of work).
    >
    > If you are satisifed with exposures you are getting, you may not need
    > RAW. RAW does nothing for resolution, only exposure and tonal
    > qualities.


    In theory you are right, but in practice it can help with resolution.

    Most camera's noise limiting/control algorithms lose effective resolution.
    Working with raw files you can recover much of what might be regarded as
    essential detail. A competent person with good software and plenty of time
    can far exceed the capabilities of any camera's inbuilt algorithms.

    > It is very helpful for a pro who sometimes absolutely HAS
    > to get the shot, even when lighting and exposure conditions are not
    > conducive to good exposure.
    >
    > Essentially the RAW image has a lot more dynamic range. It has far
    > more range than can appear in a normal print. But this means if you
    > are making a print you yourself can determine exactly WHAT values from
    > the original image appear in that print. The jpeg algorithms do a
    > sort of auto-exposure, even if you are SHOOTING in a manual exposure
    > mode.



    Secret Squirrel

    --

    Ingrid Rose

    clandestin.ecureuil(insert missing symbol here)gmail.com
    clandestin_écureuil, Jun 25, 2008
    #17
  18. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:40:06 -0400, "Peter"
    <> wrote:

    >"tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >>I have a Nikon D40 that is capable of shooting RAW as a .NEF file, but
    >> I don't have Capture NX. I have Adobe Photoshop 7.0, but I don't have
    >> any interest in upgrading to CS. PS7.0 does everything that I need to
    >> do with this exception.
    >>
    >> Before I pop for Capture NX, I'd like to be sure that there's
    >> something to be gained. So many people rave about processing in RAW,
    >> but I've never seen a before and after that shows something that can't
    >> be done in PS7.
    >>
    >> Anyone have some examples of a .jpg processed as a .jpg, and the same
    >> shot adjusted in Capture NX and then saved as a .jpg?
    >>

    >
    >
    >Tony, I skimmed some of the comments here and there is some pretty good
    >advice. Your style of shooting may be very different from mine. you may like
    >yours better, or you may like mine better. Internet scaled photos will not
    >show to best advantage. Therefore, my best suggestion is to take some shots
    >for yourself in both raw and jpeg. play with the images and see for yourself
    >if it is worth the difference. I also realize that you must invest in some
    >learning curve as few digital manipulation programs are intuitive.
    >
    >HTH and have fun.


    First, thanks to all who made comments relevant to my question, and to
    all who offered useful suggestions. No particular thanks offered to
    those who just said "RAW is better", because without a useful
    explanation of "better" or how to get "better", and without a viable
    path to setting myself up to process RAW, it's just a hand-wave at the
    question.

    I am surprised that no one was able or willing to offer a
    before-and-after image of the effects of RAW processing. That seemed
    like a simple thing to provide and something that would make the case
    for RAW.

    After checking things out, I've decided to put RAW processing on the
    hold shelf. I found someone locally who has Capture NX and was able
    to play with some images. It was OK, but not something that knocked
    my socks off.

    I can't recall ever shooting an image with the wrong white balance
    setting, so that feature of RAW is not something that makes me want to
    start shooting RAW. I took an image and increased the sky color
    saturation, and that was really great. However, I can get very close
    to the same result in Adobe Photoshop.

    The downside to RAW is the commitment to space. RAW eats up space.
    With two small grandchildren and a general interest in photography of
    other things, space becomes a problem. I'm already using one
    external hard drive in addition to my internal hard drive, and I'm
    always burning disks to clear out my drives. Moving to RAW involves
    adding programs and devices and the associated expense.

    There's no "never" in my decision, though. Just a "not now".


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Jun 25, 2008
    #18
  19. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:25:20 -0400, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:

    >tony cooper wrote:
    >
    >> I am surprised that no one was able or willing to offer a
    >> before-and-after image of the effects of RAW processing.

    >
    >There is no such thing as a before-and-after image for the effect of raw
    >processing as any raw image, due to its high dynamic range can yield any
    >number of correct JPG or other images.


    There isn't? It would seem easy to me shooting RAW+.jpg. Post a link
    to the .jpg right out of the camera, and then post a link to the RAW
    version that has been adjusted to improve the image and saved-as a
    ..jpg. Sounds dead simple to me.

    >As I said in another post it is analogous to darkroom work where
    >technical and creative variations in process (at the film or print) can
    >yield very different, but desired results.
    >
    >Trial version of Elements and CS3 can be downloaded for trial.


    Yes, yes. I know.

    >> That seemed
    >> like a simple thing to provide and something that would make the case
    >> for RAW.

    >
    >The case for raw has been made by many people who use it to yield the
    >highest quality images.


    Certainly. The case for *them*. The case for the undecided hasn't
    been made or everyone would be using RAW.

    Look...I'm not *demanding* that anyone do anything that they can't be
    arsed to do. I'm suggesting that if someone wants to show off their
    expertise with RAW, this is a good opportunity to show what can be
    done.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Jun 26, 2008
    #19
  20. In rec.photo.digital Alan Browne <> wrote:
    > tony cooper wrote:


    >> I am surprised that no one was able or willing to offer a
    >> before-and-after image of the effects of RAW processing.


    > There is no such thing as a before-and-after image for the effect of raw
    > processing as any raw image, due to its high dynamic range can yield any
    > number of correct JPG or other images.


    That's only true if what you want is a general purpose
    comparison. It's always possible to do specific purpose
    comparisons. For example, take a shot in both jpeg and raw, select a
    bit of intricate well focussed detail and process both to extract
    maximum detail and compare. The same can be done for recovery of
    detail from dark detail and partially blown highlights.

    > As I said in another post it is analogous to darkroom work where
    > technical and creative variations in process (at the film or print) can
    > yield very different, but desired results.


    > Trial version of Elements and CS3 can be downloaded for trial.


    >> That seemed
    >> like a simple thing to provide and something that would make the case
    >> for RAW.


    > The case for raw has been made by many people who use it to yield the
    > highest quality images.


    There is a general case for RAW to be made in terms of flexibility of
    changing colour balance and exposure compensation. But if you get WB
    and exposure nearly correct the case for RAW has to be made in other
    terms, such as detail capture. Here the results are extremely variable
    depending on how good are the jpegs different cameras produce. Some
    camera models lose obvious amounts of fine detail in their best
    quality jpegs, others lose none.

    It's a very idea to some of your own detailed comparisons, because you
    will then learn enough from what you see to be able to dismiss a great
    deal of the accepted wisdom about RAW spouted by those who don't
    experiment but simply repeat fashionable opinion.

    --
    Chris Malcolm DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
    Chris Malcolm, Jun 26, 2008
    #20
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