RAW images...

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Dabear, Mar 30, 2006.

  1. Dabear

    Dabear Guest

    Okay...I now have my first digital SLR (Canon D20) and am struggling to
    understand the advantages of using the RAW format as opposed to TIF or JPG.
    I know the basic concept in terms of how the RAW images contain essentially
    "raw" data and not compressed. But, my camera and manuals give me little in
    the way of explanation. I'm wondering what tutorial (on-line preferably)
    will educate me a bit. I use Photoshop 7. I'm specifically interested in
    dealing with RAW images effectively.

    Thanks
    Barry
     
    Dabear, Mar 30, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Dabear

    Ian Anderson Guest

    Hi,

    This might point you in the right direction and answer a few other
    questions as well.
    http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials.htm

    Regards
    Ian

    On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:46:49 +0000, Dabear wrote:

    > Okay...I now have my first digital SLR (Canon D20) and am struggling to
    > understand the advantages of using the RAW format as opposed to TIF or JPG.
    > I know the basic concept in terms of how the RAW images contain essentially
    > "raw" data and not compressed. But, my camera and manuals give me little in
    > the way of explanation. I'm wondering what tutorial (on-line preferably)
    > will educate me a bit. I use Photoshop 7. I'm specifically interested in
    > dealing with RAW images effectively.
    >
    > Thanks
    > Barry
     
    Ian Anderson, Mar 30, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Ian Anderson wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > This might point you in the right direction and answer a few other
    > questions as well.
    > http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials.htm
    >
    > Regards
    > Ian
    >


    Nice link and a very good explanation without going too technical.

    --
    Joseph Meehan

    Dia duit
     
    Joseph Meehan, Mar 30, 2006
    #3
  4. Dabear <> wrote:
    > Okay...I now have my first digital SLR (Canon D20) and am struggling to
    > understand the advantages of using the RAW format as opposed to TIF or JPG.
    > I know the basic concept in terms of how the RAW images contain essentially
    > "raw" data and not compressed. But, my camera and manuals give me little in
    > the way of explanation. I'm wondering what tutorial (on-line preferably)
    > will educate me a bit. I use Photoshop 7. I'm specifically interested in
    > dealing with RAW images effectively.
    >


    If you want to deal with RAW, I would upgrade to CS2 ... OR, use Raw
    Shooter Essentials 2006 (current). The latter can be downloaded for free from
    here: http://www.pixmantec.com/ A distant last is the vendor software that
    comes with your camera.

    I also recommend this book; http://tinyurl.com/jwb2k. It is specifically for
    Adobe CS2 (ACR), but the knowledge is easily transferable to Raw Shooter if
    that is your choice of software. There is also a nice RAW workflow guide
    available on the Pixmantec site, but I believe it is geared towards Raw
    Shooter Premium ($99).

    --
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
     
    Thomas T. Veldhouse, Mar 30, 2006
    #4
  5. Dabear wrote:
    > Okay...I now have my first digital SLR (Canon D20) and am struggling to
    > understand the advantages of using the RAW format as opposed to TIF or JPG.
    > I know the basic concept in terms of how the RAW images contain essentially
    > "raw" data and not compressed. But, my camera and manuals give me little in
    > the way of explanation. I'm wondering what tutorial (on-line preferably)
    > will educate me a bit. I use Photoshop 7. I'm specifically interested in
    > dealing with RAW images effectively.


    I did some research on the issue with my 20D and wrote up the results here:

    http://www.derekfountain.org/raw_vs_jpeg.php
     
    Derek Fountain, Mar 30, 2006
    #5
  6. Dabear

    Dan Guest

    Dan, Mar 30, 2006
    #6
  7. Dabear

    Fred Guest

    RAW is the only way to go as it gives much more flexibility.

    I am not sure, but I don't think Photoshop 7 has Adobe RAW, I think it was
    introduced in Photoshop CS.

    To find out how to use it with Photoshop CS, get this book:
    Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop


    "Dabear" <> wrote in message
    news:ZVMWf.11751$...
    > Okay...I now have my first digital SLR (Canon D20) and am struggling to
    > understand the advantages of using the RAW format as opposed to TIF or

    JPG.
    > I know the basic concept in terms of how the RAW images contain

    essentially
    > "raw" data and not compressed. But, my camera and manuals give me little

    in
    > the way of explanation. I'm wondering what tutorial (on-line preferably)
    > will educate me a bit. I use Photoshop 7. I'm specifically interested in
    > dealing with RAW images effectively.
    >
    > Thanks
    > Barry
    >
    >
     
    Fred, Mar 30, 2006
    #7
  8. Dabear

    tomm42 Guest

    The upgrade to CS2 is about $160, it is definitely an upgrade in
    functionality, and size! I just did it, I alsways skip an upgrade. A
    book on ACR is almost necessary. Just about to take that step.

    Tom
     
    tomm42, Mar 30, 2006
    #8
  9. Fred wrote:
    > RAW is the only way to go as it gives much more flexibility.
    >

    For Fred, definitely.

    For most Pros I know, there's a time when jpg wins out over RAW,
    especially sports and other high volume fast shooting. A good photograph
    can be made with either format, same for excellent and crap results.

    --
    John McWilliams
     
    John McWilliams, Mar 30, 2006
    #9
  10. On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:05:47 -0800, John McWilliams
    <> wrote:

    >Fred wrote:
    >> RAW is the only way to go as it gives much more flexibility.
    >>

    >For Fred, definitely.
    >
    >For most Pros I know, there's a time when jpg wins out over RAW,
    >especially sports and other high volume fast shooting. A good photograph
    >can be made with either format, same for excellent and crap results.


    You know a limited number of 'Pros.' You may make a 'good'
    photograph with a jpeg for the web or news print but not a great
    print from a jpg. You lose too much data and color gamut for that.


    ******************************************************

    "I have been a witness, and these pictures are
    my testimony. The events I have recorded should
    not be forgotten and must not be repeated."

    -James Nachtwey-
    http://www.jamesnachtwey.com/
     
    John A. Stovall, Mar 30, 2006
    #10
  11. John A. Stovall wrote:
    > On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:05:47 -0800, John McWilliams
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Fred wrote:
    >>
    >>>RAW is the only way to go as it gives much more flexibility.
    >>>

    >>
    >>For Fred, definitely.
    >>
    >>For most Pros I know, there's a time when jpg wins out over RAW,
    >>especially sports and other high volume fast shooting. A good photograph
    >>can be made with either format, same for excellent and crap results.

    >
    >
    > You know a limited number of 'Pros.' You may make a 'good'
    > photograph with a jpeg for the web or news print but not a great
    > print from a jpg. You lose too much data and color gamut for that.
    >

    John, just what are your credentials such that you can pontificate so
    often? Can you understand that some great prints have been made with
    neither much data nor gamut? Not that that is my own style, but others
    have done it for years and will continue so.

    Your banging on the "RAW only" drum is as tiresome as the "film only" or
    "digital only" or any other monolithic view here.

    And where did your sig delimiters go?

    --
    John McWilliams
     
    John McWilliams, Mar 31, 2006
    #11
  12. Dabear

    Dabear Guest

    Thanks to all who sent advice and links to sites offering some explanation
    about the advantage of using RAW images. The software that came with my
    Canon D20 allows me to make a few changes in RAW images but nowhere the
    tools available in Photoshop 7. I have made a few changes using the Canon
    software for RAW images and then I end up converting it to JPG and opening
    it with Photoshop 7 to access the tools I need. The end result has been no
    better for me than starting out with a JPG image. SO...it appears that I
    need to upgrade to CS if I want the tools I need.

    Anyway...thanks to all who responded !!

    Barry

    "Dabear" <> wrote in message
    news:ZVMWf.11751$...
    > Okay...I now have my first digital SLR (Canon D20) and am struggling to
    > understand the advantages of using the RAW format as opposed to TIF or
    > JPG. I know the basic concept in terms of how the RAW images contain
    > essentially "raw" data and not compressed. But, my camera and manuals
    > give me little in the way of explanation. I'm wondering what tutorial
    > (on-line preferably) will educate me a bit. I use Photoshop 7. I'm
    > specifically interested in dealing with RAW images effectively.
    >
    > Thanks
    > Barry
    >
     
    Dabear, Mar 31, 2006
    #12
  13. Dabear

    nk Guest

    Barry,
    If you are upgrading to CS make sure you go for CS2. That will offer you more
    flexibility.

    Here is a url to two online videos on using CS2 Camera RAW.
    http://www.layersmagazine.com/design/camera_raw.php



    Dabear wrote:
    > Thanks to all who sent advice and links to sites offering some explanation
    > about the advantage of using RAW images. The software that came with my
    > Canon D20 allows me to make a few changes in RAW images but nowhere the
    > tools available in Photoshop 7. I have made a few changes using the Canon
    > software for RAW images and then I end up converting it to JPG and opening
    > it with Photoshop 7 to access the tools I need. The end result has been no
    > better for me than starting out with a JPG image. SO...it appears that I
    > need to upgrade to CS if I want the tools I need.
    >
    > Anyway...thanks to all who responded !!
    >
    > Barry
    >
    > "Dabear" <> wrote in message
    > news:ZVMWf.11751$...
    >
    >>Okay...I now have my first digital SLR (Canon D20) and am struggling to
    >>understand the advantages of using the RAW format as opposed to TIF or
    >>JPG. I know the basic concept in terms of how the RAW images contain
    >>essentially "raw" data and not compressed. But, my camera and manuals
    >>give me little in the way of explanation. I'm wondering what tutorial
    >>(on-line preferably) will educate me a bit. I use Photoshop 7. I'm
    >>specifically interested in dealing with RAW images effectively.
    >>
    >>Thanks
    >>Barry
    >>

    >
    >
    >
     
    nk, Mar 31, 2006
    #13
  14. Dabear

    Dabear Guest

    Thanks...great link.

    Barry

    "nk" <> wrote in message
    news:1M1Xf.527$...
    > Barry,
    > If you are upgrading to CS make sure you go for CS2. That will offer you
    > more flexibility.
    >
    > Here is a url to two online videos on using CS2 Camera RAW.
    > http://www.layersmagazine.com/design/camera_raw.php
    >
    >
    >
    > Dabear wrote:
    >> Thanks to all who sent advice and links to sites offering some
    >> explanation about the advantage of using RAW images. The software that
    >> came with my Canon D20 allows me to make a few changes in RAW images but
    >> nowhere the tools available in Photoshop 7. I have made a few changes
    >> using the Canon software for RAW images and then I end up converting it
    >> to JPG and opening it with Photoshop 7 to access the tools I need. The
    >> end result has been no better for me than starting out with a JPG image.
    >> SO...it appears that I need to upgrade to CS if I want the tools I need.
    >>
    >> Anyway...thanks to all who responded !!
    >>
    >> Barry
    >>
    >> "Dabear" <> wrote in message
    >> news:ZVMWf.11751$...
    >>
    >>>Okay...I now have my first digital SLR (Canon D20) and am struggling to
    >>>understand the advantages of using the RAW format as opposed to TIF or
    >>>JPG. I know the basic concept in terms of how the RAW images contain
    >>>essentially "raw" data and not compressed. But, my camera and manuals
    >>>give me little in the way of explanation. I'm wondering what tutorial
    >>>(on-line preferably) will educate me a bit. I use Photoshop 7. I'm
    >>>specifically interested in dealing with RAW images effectively.
    >>>
    >>>Thanks
    >>>Barry
    >>>

    >>
    >>
     
    Dabear, Mar 31, 2006
    #14
  15. Dabear

    John Fryatt Guest

    Dabear wrote:
    > Thanks to all who sent advice and links to sites offering some explanation
    > about the advantage of using RAW images. The software that came with my
    > Canon D20


    20D (sorry, but I'm picky like that)

    > allows me to make a few changes in RAW images but nowhere the
    > tools available in Photoshop 7. I have made a few changes using the Canon
    > software for RAW images and then I end up converting it to JPG and opening
    > it with Photoshop 7 to access the tools I need. The end result has been no
    > better for me than starting out with a JPG image. SO...it appears that I
    > need to upgrade to CS if I want the tools I need.


    Despite what someone else said I think the Digital Photo Professional
    you get with the camera seems ok. Rawshooter is better though.

    You don't have to save the results out of DPP (or Rawshooter) as JPEG.
    You can save as TIFF, which isn't a lossy compressed format.

    If you don't want to upgrade to Photoshop CS2 I would download
    Rawshooter essential and use that.
     
    John Fryatt, Mar 31, 2006
    #15
  16. Dabear

    David Guest

    It has long been the case that if you have the option, you use the highest
    quality original as possible, which JPEG isn't.

    You can make a jpeg out of a RAW, but not vice versa. It doesn't make sense
    to shoot anything other than at the best setting.

    In addition to this, with RAW you can adjust the exposure, white balance,
    etc. without any loss in image data and import into Photoshop as
    16bit/channel image using Prophoto RGB colour space.

    It is not a 'film' v 'digital' debate because 'film' v 'digital' is a
    debatable issue. RAW v jpeg isn't.if you want the maximum quality, it is
    fact.


    "John McWilliams" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Your banging on the "RAW only" drum is as tiresome as the "film only" or
    > "digital only" or any other monolithic view here.
    >
     
    David, Mar 31, 2006
    #16
  17. John A. Stovall <> wrote:
    >
    > You know a limited number of 'Pros.' You may make a 'good'
    > photograph with a jpeg for the web or news print but not a great
    > print from a jpg. You lose too much data and color gamut for that.
    >
    >


    This can not possibly be true. Nearly ALL printers take their input as 8-bit,
    or will convert to 8-bit / channel color mode. Thus, if you take an unaltered
    JPEG from a digital SLR and print it, you can get optimal results if the JPEG
    is of an optimal image. What I mean is that no matter the work you do in post
    processing in RAW, you end up with an 8-bit color depth image for printing ...
    the same as JPEG. The color gamut is irrelavent as JPEG can use any gamut
    that a 12 or 16 bit image can (RAW or not).

    RAW offers flexibilty in post processing, but if aren't going to post process,
    then JPEG images of high enough quality will work just fine.

    --
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
     
    Thomas T. Veldhouse, Mar 31, 2006
    #17
  18. David wrote:
    > It has long been the case that if you have the option, you use the highest
    > quality original as possible, which JPEG isn't.
    >
    > You can make a jpeg out of a RAW, but not vice versa. It doesn't make sense
    > to shoot anything other than at the best setting.


    By "you", you actually mean, "me, David", then fine, that's the way you
    shoot, and nothing else makes sense to you, David. But don't apply your
    druthers to all other photogs in all situations, please.

    You fail to take into account other factors as to why JPEGs are the
    format of choice for me in some situations. I'll not repeat them here,
    and I think I am pretty much done with the "discussion".

    But thanks for participating.

    --
    John McWilliams

    "Um, his vocabulary, like, uh, really, ah....... sucked."
     
    John McWilliams, Mar 31, 2006
    #18
  19. David wrote:
    > It has long been the case that if you have the option, you use the
    > highest quality original as possible, which JPEG isn't.
    >... RAW v jpeg isn't.if you want the maximum quality,
    > it is fact.
    >


    If you product properly exposed originals, saving it as JPEG high
    quality, is not going to reduce the quality of the results.

    If you are not able to assure highly accurate exposure to start with,
    then RAW does allow more wiggle room. It also has a few other advantages.

    I would suggest that once you understand the differences each
    photographer needs to make up their own mind and there is no one right
    answer, just like there is no one right exposure or composition.


    --
    Joseph Meehan

    Dia duit
     
    Joseph Meehan, Mar 31, 2006
    #19
  20. On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:35:24 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
    <> wrote:

    >David wrote:
    >> It has long been the case that if you have the option, you use the
    >> highest quality original as possible, which JPEG isn't.
    >>... RAW v jpeg isn't.if you want the maximum quality,
    >> it is fact.
    >>

    >
    > If you product properly exposed originals, saving it as JPEG high
    >quality, is not going to reduce the quality of the results.


    Yes, it will. You will reduce the color gamut for starters.


    --

    "And he gave it for his opinion, that whoever could make
    two ears of corn, or two blades of grass, to grow upon
    a spot of ground where only one grew before, would deserve
    better of mankind, and do more essential service to his
    country,than the whole race of politicians put together."


    _Gulliver’s Travels_
    Part ii. Chap. vii.
    "Voyage to Brobdingnag"
    Jonathan Swift
    1667-1745
     
    John A. Stovall, Apr 1, 2006
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Editor  www.nutritionsoftware.org

    How raw is RAW format?

    Editor www.nutritionsoftware.org, Dec 21, 2003, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    574
    David Dyer-Bennet
    Dec 22, 2003
  2. Vlad Gunko

    Adobe PS RAW convertor vs Nikon RAW convertor

    Vlad Gunko, Jan 25, 2005, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    513
    Brian C. Baird
    Jan 25, 2005
  3. Alan Browne

    [Maxxum 7D] Dimage RAW Viewer v. Adobe Raw Plugin

    Alan Browne, Mar 9, 2005, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    442
    papaboop
    Mar 12, 2005
  4. greymfm

    RAW Viewer for wide range of RAW formats

    greymfm, Jun 14, 2006, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    389
    greymfm
    Jun 14, 2006
  5. Tim

    RAW vs JPEGs - Does RAW show more detail?

    Tim, Jun 24, 2006, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    117
    Views:
    1,756
    Aaron
    Apr 17, 2007
Loading...

Share This Page