RAW capture & Optimize Image settings on Nikon D70

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by G Winstanley, Jun 2, 2005.

  1. G Winstanley

    G Winstanley Guest

    Hi all,

    I've been experimenting with my relatively recent purchase of a Nikon D70
    and I've been a little disappointed with the colour reproduction when
    capturing in RAW/NEF mode. What I am seeking is clarification on the
    "Optimize Image" settings in the menu.

    From what I understand the RAW mode should simply capture the basic data
    from the sensor, so none of the settings in this menus item should make any
    difference to the image, at least when it is first imported into Nikon
    Capture or Photoshop CS, and any enhancement I would need to perform myself.
    Is this correct? In which case it shouldn't make any difference which
    settings I leave there as they are not used except for JPEG.

    Does this also apply to the Color Mode setting, which is an item lower down
    in the menu?

    Stan
     
    G Winstanley, Jun 2, 2005
    #1
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  2. G Winstanley

    Ed Ruf Guest

    On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:03:02 +1000, in rec.photo.digital G Winstanley
    <> wrote:

    >From what I understand the RAW mode should simply capture the basic data
    >from the sensor, so none of the settings in this menus item should make any
    >difference to the image, at least when it is first imported into Nikon
    >Capture or Photoshop CS, and any enhancement I would need to perform myself.
    >Is this correct? In which case it shouldn't make any difference which
    >settings I leave there as they are not used except for JPEG.


    PS ignores the default settings. Unless you change the Capture defaults it
    starts by using these by default.

    ----------
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
    http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
     
    Ed Ruf, Jun 2, 2005
    #2
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  3. G Winstanley

    G Winstanley Guest

    On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 06:17:26 -0400, the cup of Ed Ruf <>
    overfloweth with the following:

    > On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:03:02 +1000, in rec.photo.digital G Winstanley
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >From what I understand the RAW mode should simply capture the basic data
    > >from the sensor, so none of the settings in this menus item should make any
    > >difference to the image, at least when it is first imported into Nikon
    > >Capture or Photoshop CS, and any enhancement I would need to perform myself.
    > >Is this correct? In which case it shouldn't make any difference which
    > >settings I leave there as they are not used except for JPEG.

    >
    > PS ignores the default settings. Unless you change the Capture defaults it
    > starts by using these by default.
    >
    > ----------
    > Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    > See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
    > http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html


    So, if I get this right, the selection for the Colour Space in Photoshop's
    ACR only affects the translation from RAW/NEF into this colour space, rather
    than being a reflection of anything that has already been captured. If I
    have the setting on sRGB or Adobe RGB it doesn't matter, and I can select
    ProPhotoRGB colour space in ACR to get the best out of the image? I'm
    wondering whether by having this setting at sRGB in the camera whether I'm
    somehow losing any image quality compared to Adobe RGB in RAW mode.

    Stan
     
    G Winstanley, Jun 2, 2005
    #3
  4. G Winstanley

    Paul Furman Guest

    G Winstanley wrote:

    > On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 06:17:26 -0400, the cup of Ed Ruf <>
    > overfloweth with the following:
    >
    >
    >>On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:03:02 +1000, in rec.photo.digital G Winstanley
    >><> wrote:
    >>
    >>>From what I understand the RAW mode should simply capture the basic data
    >>>from the sensor, so none of the settings in this menus item should make any

    >>
    >>>difference to the image, at least when it is first imported into Nikon
    >>>Capture or Photoshop CS, and any enhancement I would need to perform myself.
    >>>Is this correct? In which case it shouldn't make any difference which
    >>>settings I leave there as they are not used except for JPEG.

    >>
    >>PS ignores the default settings. Unless you change the Capture defaults it
    >>starts by using these by default.
    >>
    >>----------
    >>Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    >>See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
    >>http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html

    >
    >
    > So, if I get this right, the selection for the Colour Space in Photoshop's
    > ACR only affects the translation from RAW/NEF into this colour space, rather
    > than being a reflection of anything that has already been captured. If I
    > have the setting on sRGB or Adobe RGB it doesn't matter, and I can select
    > ProPhotoRGB colour space in ACR to get the best out of the image? I'm
    > wondering whether by having this setting at sRGB in the camera whether I'm
    > somehow losing any image quality compared to Adobe RGB in RAW mode.



    No, you have full control in post-processing. There probably will be
    some times you shoot jpegs though so set it the way you want to match
    your raw conversion defaults.


    --
    Paul Furman
    http://www.edgehill.net/1
    san francisco native plants
     
    Paul Furman, Jun 2, 2005
    #4
  5. G Winstanley

    Guest

    The different color spaces have radically different sizes, with
    prophoto being the biggest. If you adjust your image with prophoto and
    then switch to, say, sRGB (the smallest) you'll see your colors go out
    of gamut.

    Personally I'd rather convert with no profile and sort out the color
    space for myself later eg the dcraw method
     
    , Jun 2, 2005
    #5
  6. G Winstanley

    Ed Ruf Guest

    On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:09:23 +1000, in rec.photo.digital G Winstanley
    <> wrote:


    >So, if I get this right, the selection for the Colour Space in Photoshop's
    >ACR only affects the translation from RAW/NEF into this colour space, rather
    >than being a reflection of anything that has already been captured. If I
    >have the setting on sRGB or Adobe RGB it doesn't matter, and I can select
    >ProPhotoRGB colour space in ACR to get the best out of the image? I'm
    >wondering whether by having this setting at sRGB in the camera whether I'm
    >somehow losing any image quality compared to Adobe RGB in RAW mode.


    No. I was referring to more of the WB and other tone comp and image
    adjustment settings. I believe ACR doesn't know what color space your
    image is and you need to explicitly tell if which one the image was
    taken in if not sRGB. However, since I don't use PS, I may be
    misinformed.

    ________________________________________________________
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
    http://EdwardGRuf.com
     
    Ed Ruf, Jun 2, 2005
    #6
  7. G Winstanley

    birdman Guest

    Maintain your color space as Adobe RGB for your raw capture and when you
    open the image in Photoshop. Later in Photoshop you can convert color spaces
    to your heart's content.
    There are many tutorials on different ways to use the shadow/exposure
    adjustments or make adjustments later in Photshop.
    You can choose a white point in the RAW converter or balance color later in
    Photoshop.
    I think it is more useful to learn how to use the options for adjusting
    chromatic aberrations and vignetting.
    The most controversial issue about how to use the RAW converter is whether
    to work in 16bits or 8 bits. There is alot of misinformation out there about
    the benefits of 16bit color and how to use it and what happens when the 8
    bit printer driver gets hold of the data.
     
    birdman, Jun 3, 2005
    #7
  8. G Winstanley

    G Winstanley Guest

    On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:55:40 -0400, the cup of Ed Ruf <>
    overfloweth with the following:

    > On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:09:23 +1000, in rec.photo.digital G Winstanley
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >So, if I get this right, the selection for the Colour Space in Photoshop's
    > >ACR only affects the translation from RAW/NEF into this colour space, rather
    > >than being a reflection of anything that has already been captured. If I
    > >have the setting on sRGB or Adobe RGB it doesn't matter, and I can select
    > >ProPhotoRGB colour space in ACR to get the best out of the image? I'm
    > >wondering whether by having this setting at sRGB in the camera whether I'm
    > >somehow losing any image quality compared to Adobe RGB in RAW mode.

    >
    > No. I was referring to more of the WB and other tone comp and image
    > adjustment settings. I believe ACR doesn't know what color space your
    > image is and you need to explicitly tell if which one the image was
    > taken in if not sRGB. However, since I don't use PS, I may be
    > misinformed.
    >
    > ________________________________________________________
    > Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    > See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
    > http://EdwardGRuf.com



    Ah, now we're getting closer to my intention...
    > I believe ACR doesn't know what color space your image is and you need to explicitly tell if which one the image was taken in if not sRGB."


    I am under the impression that any image taken in RAW/NEF mode does *not*
    have an assigned colour space, but just raw values from the sensor. This
    would imply that in raw conversion you can select any colour space you want
    in order to do processing.

    However, if the RAW/NEF file contains colour space information, then it
    *definitely* matters which colour space you choose in raw processing, and
    should choose the one in which the image was shot in camera.

    But...I'm still unsure as to which is correct, and the manual really doesn't
    help me with this.

    Stan
     
    G Winstanley, Jun 3, 2005
    #8
  9. G Winstanley

    G Winstanley Guest

    On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:17:46 GMT, the cup of "birdman"
    <> overfloweth with the following:

    > Maintain your color space as Adobe RGB for your raw capture and when you
    > open the image in Photoshop. Later in Photoshop you can convert color spaces
    > to your heart's content.
    > There are many tutorials on different ways to use the shadow/exposure
    > adjustments or make adjustments later in Photshop.
    > You can choose a white point in the RAW converter or balance color later in
    > Photoshop.
    > I think it is more useful to learn how to use the options for adjusting
    > chromatic aberrations and vignetting.
    > The most controversial issue about how to use the RAW converter is whether
    > to work in 16bits or 8 bits. There is alot of misinformation out there about
    > the benefits of 16bit color and how to use it and what happens when the 8
    > bit printer driver gets hold of the data.
    >


    But does have the setting Adobe RGB actually get used for the RAW file?
    Surely a RAW file contains raw sensor values, not values relating to a
    colour space. By my thinking the colour space information is applied when
    performing the conversion from RAW into Photoshop, so my best option would
    be to convert into ProPhotoRGB to give me the widest gamut possible.

    This is the crux of the misunderstanding for me. Are the raw values
    contained in the NEF file colour space aware, or not? If they are I need to
    ensure I choose the correct colour space option in ACR; if they are not I
    can choose whatever I like. What you're saying implies they *are* colour
    space aware...are you sure, or is this simply whta your current workflow
    would imply?

    Stan
     
    G Winstanley, Jun 3, 2005
    #9
  10. G Winstanley

    Paul Furman Guest

    G Winstanley wrote:
    >
    > I am under the impression that any image taken in RAW/NEF mode does *not*
    > have an assigned colour space, but just raw values from the sensor. This
    > would imply that in raw conversion you can select any colour space you want
    > in order to do processing.



    There might be a little exif tag saying what the camera preferences were
    but ACR lets you convert the NEF in any color space you wish. You can
    change the defaults in ACR & it will open all NEFs with that default.


    >
    > However, if the RAW/NEF file contains colour space information, then it
    > *definitely* matters which colour space you choose in raw processing, and
    > should choose the one in which the image was shot in camera.
    >
    > But...I'm still unsure as to which is correct, and the manual really doesn't
    > help me with this.
    >
    > Stan


    --
    Paul Furman
    http://www.edgehill.net/1
    san francisco native plants
     
    Paul Furman, Jun 3, 2005
    #10
  11. G Winstanley

    G Winstanley Guest

    On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 06:27:18 -0700, the cup of Paul Furman
    <> overfloweth with the following:

    > G Winstanley wrote:
    > >
    > > I am under the impression that any image taken in RAW/NEF mode does *not*
    > > have an assigned colour space, but just raw values from the sensor. This
    > > would imply that in raw conversion you can select any colour space you want
    > > in order to do processing.

    >
    >
    > There might be a little exif tag saying what the camera preferences were
    > but ACR lets you convert the NEF in any color space you wish. You can
    > change the defaults in ACR & it will open all NEFs with that default.
    >
    >


    This seems like the information I need, and is what I hoped. However, what
    still slightly concerns me is this quote from the Photoshop CS help file,
    about the colour space setting in ACR:
    "Specifies the target color space profile. Generally, this should be
    set to the same value as your Photoshop RGB working space. Keep in mind that
    the source profile for camera raw image files is usually the camera-native
    color space. (Higher-end cameras let you select a color space like Adobe RGB
    for the color profile when photographing.) The profiles listed in the Space
    menu are built into the Photoshop Camera Raw plug-in. If you want to use a
    color space that's not listed in the Space menu, choose ProPhoto RGB, and
    then convert to the working space of your choice when the file opens in
    Photoshop."

    This seems to imply the same as what you said, except the part in
    parentheses which seems to also imply that some cameras have a colour space
    assigned, which would then imply an explicit choice of that space! Each time
    it seems straightforward at first glance, then something crops up to
    slightly contradict my thinking. So what do you think about this quote from
    the help file and how it has a bearing on things?

    Stan
     
    G Winstanley, Jun 3, 2005
    #11
  12. G Winstanley

    Paul Furman Guest

    G Winstanley wrote:

    > On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 06:27:18 -0700, the cup of Paul Furman
    > <> overfloweth with the following:
    >
    >
    >>G Winstanley wrote:
    >>
    >>>I am under the impression that any image taken in RAW/NEF mode does *not*
    >>>have an assigned colour space, but just raw values from the sensor. This
    >>>would imply that in raw conversion you can select any colour space you want
    >>>in order to do processing.

    >>
    >>
    >>There might be a little exif tag saying what the camera preferences were
    >>but ACR lets you convert the NEF in any color space you wish. You can
    >>change the defaults in ACR & it will open all NEFs with that default.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    > This seems like the information I need, and is what I hoped. However, what
    > still slightly concerns me is this quote from the Photoshop CS help file,
    > about the colour space setting in ACR:
    > "Specifies the target color space profile. Generally, this should be
    > set to the same value as your Photoshop RGB working space. Keep in mind that
    > the source profile for camera raw image files is usually the camera-native
    > color space. (Higher-end cameras let you select a color space like Adobe RGB
    > for the color profile when photographing.) The profiles listed in the Space
    > menu are built into the Photoshop Camera Raw plug-in. If you want to use a
    > color space that's not listed in the Space menu, choose ProPhoto RGB, and
    > then convert to the working space of your choice when the file opens in
    > Photoshop."
    >
    > This seems to imply the same as what you said, except the part in
    > parentheses which seems to also imply that some cameras have a colour space
    > assigned, which would then imply an explicit choice of that space! Each time
    > it seems straightforward at first glance, then something crops up to
    > slightly contradict my thinking. So what do you think about this quote from
    > the help file and how it has a bearing on things?



    Well yes that does confuse things. I believe that the raw file is not
    really in any color space at all though. I thought that doesn't happen
    till you convert it. At least the raw data has a much wider gamut than
    the converted image, that's the reason it's useful to make adjustments
    in the raw converter before it's smushed down into a regular image format.

    Ideally I guess you would use the ProPhoto 16 bit then do any
    adjustments like curves then convert to adobeRGB or sRGB 8 bit but
    that's just a lot more hassle.


    --
    Paul Furman
    http://www.edgehill.net/1
    san francisco native plants
     
    Paul Furman, Jun 3, 2005
    #12
  13. G Winstanley

    G Winstanley Guest

    On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:45:56 -0700, the cup of Paul Furman
    <> overfloweth with the following:

    > G Winstanley wrote:
    >
    > > On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 06:27:18 -0700, the cup of Paul Furman
    > > <> overfloweth with the following:
    > >
    > >
    > >>G Winstanley wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>I am under the impression that any image taken in RAW/NEF mode does *not*
    > >>>have an assigned colour space, but just raw values from the sensor. This
    > >>>would imply that in raw conversion you can select any colour space you want
    > >>>in order to do processing.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>There might be a little exif tag saying what the camera preferences were
    > >>but ACR lets you convert the NEF in any color space you wish. You can
    > >>change the defaults in ACR & it will open all NEFs with that default.
    > >>
    > >>

    > >
    > >
    > > This seems like the information I need, and is what I hoped. However, what
    > > still slightly concerns me is this quote from the Photoshop CS help file,
    > > about the colour space setting in ACR:
    > > "Specifies the target color space profile. Generally, this should be
    > > set to the same value as your Photoshop RGB working space. Keep in mind that
    > > the source profile for camera raw image files is usually the camera-native
    > > color space. (Higher-end cameras let you select a color space like Adobe RGB
    > > for the color profile when photographing.) The profiles listed in the Space
    > > menu are built into the Photoshop Camera Raw plug-in. If you want to use a
    > > color space that's not listed in the Space menu, choose ProPhoto RGB, and
    > > then convert to the working space of your choice when the file opens in
    > > Photoshop."
    > >
    > > This seems to imply the same as what you said, except the part in
    > > parentheses which seems to also imply that some cameras have a colour space
    > > assigned, which would then imply an explicit choice of that space! Each time
    > > it seems straightforward at first glance, then something crops up to
    > > slightly contradict my thinking. So what do you think about this quote from
    > > the help file and how it has a bearing on things?

    >
    >
    > Well yes that does confuse things. I believe that the raw file is not
    > really in any color space at all though. I thought that doesn't happen
    > till you convert it. At least the raw data has a much wider gamut than
    > the converted image, that's the reason it's useful to make adjustments
    > in the raw converter before it's smushed down into a regular image format.
    >
    > Ideally I guess you would use the ProPhoto 16 bit then do any
    > adjustments like curves then convert to adobeRGB or sRGB 8 bit but
    > that's just a lot more hassle.


    I'm glad I'm not the only that sees the apparent confusion here then. I
    agree that this workflow via ProPhotoRGB seems the right way to go. I still
    have a slight niggly feeling that somehow I maybe ought to be open in ACR
    with Adobe RGB, then converting to ProPhotoRGB in PS. I'll try to get some
    test done when I get a chance, but I really need some scenes which are
    likely to stretch near the boundaries of the aRGB gamut.

    Stan
     
    G Winstanley, Jun 4, 2005
    #13
  14. G Winstanley

    Paul Furman Guest

    G Winstanley wrote:

    > On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:45:56 -0700, the cup of Paul Furman
    > <> overfloweth with the following:
    >
    >
    >>G Winstanley wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 06:27:18 -0700, the cup of Paul Furman
    >>><> overfloweth with the following:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>G Winstanley wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>I am under the impression that any image taken in RAW/NEF mode does *not*
    >>>>>have an assigned colour space, but just raw values from the sensor. This
    >>>>>would imply that in raw conversion you can select any colour space you want
    >>>>>in order to do processing.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>There might be a little exif tag saying what the camera preferences were
    >>>>but ACR lets you convert the NEF in any color space you wish. You can
    >>>>change the defaults in ACR & it will open all NEFs with that default.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>This seems like the information I need, and is what I hoped. However, what
    >>>still slightly concerns me is this quote from the Photoshop CS help file,
    >>>about the colour space setting in ACR:
    >>> "Specifies the target color space profile. Generally, this should be
    >>>set to the same value as your Photoshop RGB working space. Keep in mind that
    >>>the source profile for camera raw image files is usually the camera-native
    >>>color space. (Higher-end cameras let you select a color space like Adobe RGB
    >>>for the color profile when photographing.) The profiles listed in the Space
    >>>menu are built into the Photoshop Camera Raw plug-in. If you want to use a
    >>>color space that's not listed in the Space menu, choose ProPhoto RGB, and
    >>>then convert to the working space of your choice when the file opens in
    >>>Photoshop."
    >>>
    >>>This seems to imply the same as what you said, except the part in
    >>>parentheses which seems to also imply that some cameras have a colour space
    >>>assigned, which would then imply an explicit choice of that space! Each time
    >>>it seems straightforward at first glance, then something crops up to
    >>>slightly contradict my thinking. So what do you think about this quote from
    >>>the help file and how it has a bearing on things?

    >>
    >>
    >>Well yes that does confuse things. I believe that the raw file is not
    >>really in any color space at all though. I thought that doesn't happen
    >>till you convert it. At least the raw data has a much wider gamut than
    >>the converted image, that's the reason it's useful to make adjustments
    >>in the raw converter before it's smushed down into a regular image format.
    >>
    >>Ideally I guess you would use the ProPhoto 16 bit then do any
    >>adjustments like curves then convert to adobeRGB or sRGB 8 bit but
    >>that's just a lot more hassle.

    >
    >
    > I'm glad I'm not the only that sees the apparent confusion here then. I
    > agree that this workflow via ProPhotoRGB seems the right way to go. I still
    > have a slight niggly feeling that somehow I maybe ought to be open in ACR
    > with Adobe RGB, then converting to ProPhotoRGB in PS. I'll try to get some
    > test done when I get a chance, but I really need some scenes which are
    > likely to stretch near the boundaries of the aRGB gamut.



    Check in alt.graphics.photoshop if you want better advice, that's a
    really tricky question. My thought is PS CS isn't going to dump any info
    if you convert direct into ProPhotoRGB. I don't think it would let you
    make that mistake if it was a mistake.

    It is not illogical for someone to convert raw to an ordinary RGB
    colorspace then convert to a wider gamut so they could increase
    saturation with color adjustments for something really wierd or
    artificially tweak to match something important but that's post
    processing induced changes, not caring about the source data. I'm in way
    over my head though.

    Um, if you want to test, there is a way to indicate out-of-gamut colors
    in PS graphically. Check the help files for that.

    --
    Paul Furman
    http://www.edgehill.net/1
    san francisco native plants
     
    Paul Furman, Jun 4, 2005
    #14
  15. G Winstanley

    Guest

    In message <KkNne.1686$>,
    "birdman" <> wrote:

    >There is alot of misinformation out there about
    >the benefits of 16bit color and how to use it and what happens when the 8
    >bit printer driver gets hold of the data.


    Printers aren't 8 bit either; only the data fed to the drivers is.
    Printers are often only 3 or 4 bits. It's dithered, and if you have
    16-bit data dithered to 8-bit, fed to the driver, you have a deeper
    effective color space than if you worked in 8-bit.

    Anyway, the main reason for using 16-bit post-processing is to avoid
    posterization, not to *SEE* 16-bit output. Most of the critics of
    16-bit processing miss the point; it's not about what you see so much as
    it is about what happens to the data.

    How would you like a bank account that rounded your balance down to the
    nearest dollar after applying interest every day?
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
     
    , Jun 4, 2005
    #15
  16. G Winstanley

    Guest

    yes you can show out of gamut colours.

    it would seem to me that the camera has a gamut which will be the
    triangle on the chromaticity graph from the 3 bayer filters. So whn you
    convert from raw to photoshop you convert from that space to your
    chosen space
     
    , Jun 4, 2005
    #16
  17. G Winstanley

    Guest

    if you lok at Nikon web site you see that NEF is RAW 12 bit data. The
    conversion process can either 'bulk' this out to 16 bits, or shrink it
    down to 8.

    you should work in 16 bit because it avoids rounding errors which lead
    to quantization / posterization

    DB
     
    , Jun 8, 2005
    #17
  18. G Winstanley

    bmoag Guest

    Consider: if you ever print your images your 16 bit colors may be out of 8
    bit gamut and all colors will go through two additional (the first was
    placing your 12 bit raw data into a 16bit space) data conversions that are
    out of control: into 8 bit color space and then into the printer 8 bit
    driver gamut. Unless you really look at what happens when you print you can
    actually be causing more problems working in 16 bit than you are solving
    simply because parts of a 16 bit histogram seem smoother than their 8 bit
    counterpart. Although not a totally accurate analogy consider what happens
    when you rip an MP3 track into CD format and then back into MP3 format.
     
    bmoag, Jun 8, 2005
    #18
  19. G Winstanley

    Guest

    with respect I disagree with you :)

    I cannot see that taking a 12 bit number and expressing it in 16 bits
    is going to lead to data loss. The 16 bit realm will not be fully
    populated, but I can't see their being data _loss_.

    Your MP3 analogy goes the wrong way. Its like saying take a 12 bit
    image, convert to 8 bit and then back out to 16. Of course then you
    only have 8 bits of data in your 16 bit space, but even then your
    calculations will be more accurate.

    The gamut thing is not relevant. The no of bits is like using a
    calculator that has more decimal places available: it doesn't change
    how many numbers are avilable, whichis what gamut is.

    Why not work in the biggest space to preserve accuracy? To follow your
    argument, as most printers are only 4 bits, why not convert to 4 bit?
     
    , Jun 8, 2005
    #19
  20. G Winstanley

    Guest

    In message <>,
    wrote:

    >if you lok at Nikon web site you see that NEF is RAW 12 bit data. The
    >conversion process can either 'bulk' this out to 16 bits, or shrink it
    >down to 8.


    Mainly true, but there is so much change in gamma that the shadows don't
    lose much going to 8 bit; only the midtones and highlights.
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
     
    , Jun 9, 2005
    #20
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