Quick charger vs Slow: Which last longer NiMH batteries?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by lbbss, Dec 31, 2008.

  1. lbbss

    lbbss Guest

    I have NiMH batteries and have both Quick charger and slow Energizer
    charger. Will I get more charges if I use slow charger? Also will
    it last longer with slow charger? thanks.
     
    lbbss, Dec 31, 2008
    #1
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  2. lbbss

    Guest

    "lbbss" <> wrote in message news:
    ...
    >I have NiMH batteries and have both Quick charger and slow Energizer
    > charger. Will I get more charges if I use slow charger? Also will
    > it last longer with slow charger? thanks.




    How much charge you get really depends on the specify charger, the cut-
    off time or cut-off voltage.

    It will last longer in terms of life expectancy of the battery if you
    use slow charger.

    Some makes of battery will heat up really quickly if you use fast
    charger. I have observed some makes of battery heating up in 10
    minutes to a point that is too hot to touch in a fast charger, while
    some makes remain just warm to the touch in the same fast charger.

    I suggest you test the heat buildup of the kind of battery you want to
    quick charge. Use the slow charger when you are not in a hurry.

    Another thing is that, it is better to have a charger that charges
    each battery individually. It used to be quite expensive but the price
    is coming down. Many of the older chargers require you to charge
    either 2 at a time or 4 at a time. That is a bad idea because the
    weaker battery in the set will tend to make the charger overcharge the
    stronger ones.


    Regards,

    Wannabe
    =======
     
    , Dec 31, 2008
    #2
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  3. lbbss

    D.Mac Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "lbbss" <> wrote in message news:
    > ...
    >>I have NiMH batteries and have both Quick charger and slow Energizer
    >> charger. Will I get more charges if I use slow charger? Also will
    >> it last longer with slow charger? thanks.

    >
    >
    >
    > How much charge you get really depends on the specify charger, the cut-
    > off time or cut-off voltage.
    >
    > It will last longer in terms of life expectancy of the battery if you
    > use slow charger.
    >
    > Some makes of battery will heat up really quickly if you use fast
    > charger. I have observed some makes of battery heating up in 10
    > minutes to a point that is too hot to touch in a fast charger, while
    > some makes remain just warm to the touch in the same fast charger.
    >
    > I suggest you test the heat buildup of the kind of battery you want to
    > quick charge. Use the slow charger when you are not in a hurry.
    >
    > Another thing is that, it is better to have a charger that charges
    > each battery individually. It used to be quite expensive but the price
    > is coming down. Many of the older chargers require you to charge
    > either 2 at a time or 4 at a time. That is a bad idea because the
    > weaker battery in the set will tend to make the charger overcharge the
    > stronger ones.
    >
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Wannabe
    > =======


    Heat build up is very relevant in these batteries if you are using them in a
    flash gun. I have some "duracell" branded 2650 mAa AA's that get hot enough
    to switch off my Nikon SB900 after about 15 continious shots and some really
    cheap (like about 1/3rd the cost) generics rated at 2200 mAh that will let
    me shoot over twice as many before heat comes into play.

    Also when I charge the batteries in my 2 hour charger, the Duracells are so
    hot when the charge is finished I can't hold them in my hand but the
    generics are much cooler. I've recharged both about 40 times and they still
    shoot as many frames as when new.

    --
    Visit my site: D-Mac.info
    My photos, Information about trolls
    and a little bit of fun too!
     
    D.Mac, Dec 31, 2008
    #3
  4. lbbss

    measekite Guest

    On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:38:13 -0800, lbbss wrote:

    > I have NiMH batteries and have both Quick charger and slow Energizer
    > charger. Will I get more charges if I use slow charger? Also will
    > it last longer with slow charger? thanks.


    I use 15 min batteries in a Duracell 15 min charger and have not problems
    when installing them in a Canon camera.

    However, the issue is when I put the same batteries in a flashlight.
    After about 3 weeks of none use they flash light glows very dim and
    unusable.
     
    measekite, Dec 31, 2008
    #4
  5. lbbss

    Mark Thomas Guest

    measekite wrote:
    > On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:38:13 -0800, lbbss wrote:
    >
    >> I have NiMH batteries and have both Quick charger and slow Energizer
    >> charger. Will I get more charges if I use slow charger? Also will
    >> it last longer with slow charger? thanks.

    >
    > I use 15 min batteries in a Duracell 15 min charger and have not problems
    > when installing them in a Canon camera.
    >
    > However, the issue is when I put the same batteries in a flashlight.
    > After about 3 weeks of none use they flash light glows very dim and
    > unusable.

    Flashlights are one of the worst possible uses for normal NiMh (or NiCd)
    batteries. That type of battery self-discharges quickly, plus if you
    accidentally leave the light on and flatten the battery, it will result
    in polarity reversal and battery damage/death (unless the flashlight is
    actually designed for rechargables). *Only* use low-self-discharge
    batteries (Eneloops/hybrids), or non-rechargables in this type of device.

    As has already been pointed out, slow charging is easier on the battery,
    but ymmv.
     
    Mark Thomas, Dec 31, 2008
    #5
  6. lbbss

    Mike S. Guest

    In article <>,
    <> wrote:
    >
    >"lbbss" <> wrote in message news:
    >...
    >>I have NiMH batteries and have both Quick charger and slow Energizer
    >> charger. Will I get more charges if I use slow charger? Also will
    >> it last longer with slow charger? thanks.

    >
    >
    >
    >How much charge you get really depends on the specify charger, the cut-
    >off time or cut-off voltage.
    >
    >It will last longer in terms of life expectancy of the battery if you
    >use slow charger.
    >
    >Some makes of battery will heat up really quickly if you use fast
    >charger. I have observed some makes of battery heating up in 10
    >minutes to a point that is too hot to touch in a fast charger, while
    >some makes remain just warm to the touch in the same fast charger.
    >
    >I suggest you test the heat buildup of the kind of battery you want to
    >quick charge. Use the slow charger when you are not in a hurry.
    >
    >Another thing is that, it is better to have a charger that charges
    >each battery individually. It used to be quite expensive but the price
    >is coming down. Many of the older chargers require you to charge
    >either 2 at a time or 4 at a time. That is a bad idea because the
    >weaker battery in the set will tend to make the charger overcharge the
    >stronger ones.


    FWIW I've retrieved hotter batteries from some poorly-designed 1 hour
    chargers than well-designed 15-minute chargers.
     
    Mike S., Dec 31, 2008
    #6
  7. lbbss

    measekite Guest

    On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:10:44 +1000, Mark Thomas wrote:

    > measekite wrote:
    >> On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:38:13 -0800, lbbss wrote:
    >>
    >>> I have NiMH batteries and have both Quick charger and slow Energizer
    >>> charger. Will I get more charges if I use slow charger? Also will
    >>> it last longer with slow charger? thanks.

    >>
    >> I use 15 min batteries in a Duracell 15 min charger and have not problems
    >> when installing them in a Canon camera.
    >>
    >> However, the issue is when I put the same batteries in a flashlight.
    >> After about 3 weeks of none use they flash light glows very dim and
    >> unusable.

    > Flashlights are one of the worst possible uses for normal NiMh (or NiCd)
    > batteries. That type of battery self-discharges quickly, plus if you
    > accidentally leave the light on and flatten the battery, it will result
    > in polarity reversal and battery damage/death (unless the flashlight is
    > actually designed for rechargables). *Only* use low-self-discharge
    > batteries (Eneloops/hybrids), or non-rechargables in this type of device.
    >
    > As has already been pointed out, slow charging is easier on the battery,
    > but ymmv.


    Can you PROPERLY charge an Enloop in a Duracell 15 min charger or do you
    need to get a Sanyo charger?
     
    measekite, Dec 31, 2008
    #7
  8. lbbss

    ray Guest

    On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:38:13 -0800, lbbss wrote:

    > I have NiMH batteries and have both Quick charger and slow Energizer
    > charger. Will I get more charges if I use slow charger? Also will it
    > last longer with slow charger? thanks.


    The answer to that question will depend a bit on how expensive the
    chargers are. Cheap 'come with' chargers generally have no smarts and
    will not do an optimal job of charging your batteries. A more expensive
    'smart' charger will make them last as long as possible. Given that
    you're probably talking about cheap 'dumb' ones, the answer would most
    likely be that slower is better.
     
    ray, Dec 31, 2008
    #8
  9. lbbss

    J. Clarke Guest

    measekite wrote:
    > On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:10:44 +1000, Mark Thomas wrote:
    >
    >> measekite wrote:
    >>> On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:38:13 -0800, lbbss wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I have NiMH batteries and have both Quick charger and slow
    >>>> Energizer charger. Will I get more charges if I use slow
    >>>> charger? Also will it last longer with slow charger? thanks.
    >>>
    >>> I use 15 min batteries in a Duracell 15 min charger and have not
    >>> problems when installing them in a Canon camera.
    >>>
    >>> However, the issue is when I put the same batteries in a
    >>> flashlight.
    >>> After about 3 weeks of none use they flash light glows very dim
    >>> and
    >>> unusable.

    >> Flashlights are one of the worst possible uses for normal NiMh (or
    >> NiCd) batteries. That type of battery self-discharges quickly,
    >> plus
    >> if you accidentally leave the light on and flatten the battery, it
    >> will result in polarity reversal and battery damage/death (unless
    >> the flashlight is actually designed for rechargables). *Only* use
    >> low-self-discharge batteries (Eneloops/hybrids), or
    >> non-rechargables
    >> in this type of device.
    >>
    >> As has already been pointed out, slow charging is easier on the
    >> battery, but ymmv.

    >
    > Can you PROPERLY charge an Enloop in a Duracell 15 min charger or do
    > you need to get a Sanyo charger?


    You might find the discussion at
    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=114943 and
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=140217 to be of
    interest. Instead of just opinionating, these guys did tests. Lots
    of information there. I'm not going to even try to summarize it other
    than to day that the Duracell charger seems to be a pretty good
    charger.


    --
    --
    --John
    to email, dial "usenet" and validate
    (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
     
    J. Clarke, Dec 31, 2008
    #9
  10. lbbss

    Guest

    "Mike S." <> wrote in message news:gjfqsv
    $fv4$...
    >
    >
    > FWIW I've retrieved hotter batteries from some poorly-designed 1 hour
    > chargers than well-designed 15-minute chargers.
    >
    >



    That is interesting. Did you charge the same set of batteries in the 1-
    hour and 15-minutes chargers?

    I would presume the higher the charging current, the hotter the
    batteries, but all batteries will generate a lot of heat if you keep
    the high charging current going after the battery is full because the
    input energy has nothing else to do but to dissipate as heat.

    Even for fast chargers, it is better if the charger can stop charging
    when it has detected the fully-charged state of a battery. Better yet
    if the charger has individual charging circuits for each battery so
    that none of the batteries in the set will be overcharged as in
    regular chargers which must charge 2 or 4 batteries at a time.
     
    , Dec 31, 2008
    #10
  11. lbbss

    SMS Guest

    lbbss wrote:
    > I have NiMH batteries and have both Quick charger and slow Energizer
    > charger. Will I get more charges if I use slow charger? Also will
    > it last longer with slow charger? thanks.


    It depends on the charger. A proper charger that is able to detect
    end-of-charge, even on slow charge, is best. It's easier to detect
    end-of-charge on a fast charger.
     
    SMS, Dec 31, 2008
    #11
  12. lbbss

    Mark Thomas Guest

    measekite wrote:
    > On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:10:44 +1000, Mark Thomas wrote:
    >
    >> measekite wrote:
    >>> On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:38:13 -0800, lbbss wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I have NiMH batteries and have both Quick charger and slow Energizer
    >>>> charger. Will I get more charges if I use slow charger? Also will
    >>>> it last longer with slow charger? thanks.
    >>> I use 15 min batteries in a Duracell 15 min charger and have not problems
    >>> when installing them in a Canon camera.
    >>>
    >>> However, the issue is when I put the same batteries in a flashlight.
    >>> After about 3 weeks of none use they flash light glows very dim and
    >>> unusable.

    >> Flashlights are one of the worst possible uses for normal NiMh (or NiCd)
    >> batteries. That type of battery self-discharges quickly, plus if you
    >> accidentally leave the light on and flatten the battery, it will result
    >> in polarity reversal and battery damage/death (unless the flashlight is
    >> actually designed for rechargables). *Only* use low-self-discharge
    >> batteries (Eneloops/hybrids), or non-rechargables in this type of device.
    >>
    >> As has already been pointed out, slow charging is easier on the battery,
    >> but ymmv.

    >
    > Can you PROPERLY charge an Enloop in a Duracell 15 min charger or do you
    > need to get a Sanyo charger?


    Can't say for certain, but the fast charger I have (a cheap one that I
    very rarely use) says it will do 'all' types of NiMh... You should
    check the instructions on both battery and charger. I have used that
    charger once on my Eneloops and it worked, but I would not make a habit
    of it. I have enough batteries and self-organisation that I normally
    never need to fast charge..
     
    Mark Thomas, Dec 31, 2008
    #12
  13. lbbss

    Mark Thomas Guest

    Ron Hunter wrote:
    > It is logical that faster chargers will shorten battery life. However,
    > if it reduces the number of recharges by 75%, then, instead of 500
    > recharges, you get only 125. That's about a penny per use/charge cycle.
    > Why worry about it if the convenience is significant?


    In my case, because it will increase the frequency of failures, and the
    number of times you run into battery problems in the field. Why not
    just organise your battery usage so that you can afford the longer time?
    Using low-self-discharge batteries, there is no reason why you can't
    always have at least one set pre-charged and ready to go.

    I lament this society where speed and disposability are the priorities..
    (O:
     
    Mark Thomas, Dec 31, 2008
    #13
  14. lbbss

    ASAAR Guest

    On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 11:47:01 -0800, John Navas wrote:

    >> Heat build up is very relevant in these batteries if you are using them in a
    >> flash gun. I have some "duracell" branded 2650 mAa AA's that get hot enough
    >> to switch off my Nikon SB900 after about 15 continious shots and some really
    >> cheap (like about 1/3rd the cost) generics rated at 2200 mAh that will let
    >> me shoot over twice as many before heat comes into play.

    >
    > The issue there is the higher internal resistance of the batteries.
    > I use and recommend NiCd over NiMH in a flash for just this reason.


    Then you should stop using and recommending NiCads over NiMH
    cells. Energizer's data sheets show that their NiCd AA cells have
    an internal resistance of 35 milliohms (fully charged) and an I.R.
    of 45 milliohms (1/2 discharged). Their NiMH AA batteries have
    internal resistances of 30 milliohms (fully charged) and 40
    milliohms (1/2 discharged). Not a big difference, and the recharge
    time is the same in Nikon's speedlights. But the NiCd cells have
    much lower capacity than the NiMH cells. Nikon's large speedlights
    get 90 full power flashes from 4 NiCd AA cells and from 150 to 165
    full power flashes from 2,000 mAh NiMH AA cells and Eneloops, and up
    to 190 flashes from four 2,600 mAh NiMH AA cells.

    I don't know the internal resistance of Eneloops, but others in
    the DPR forums have measured their I.R. and report that it's much
    lower than standard NiMH cells, and that this results in their not
    getting as hot, both while charging as well as when they're used for
    rapid bursts in Nikon's speedlights.
     
    ASAAR, Jan 1, 2009
    #14
  15. lbbss

    ray Guest


    >>

    > One thing puzzles me about some people's concerns about getting the most
    > life out of batteries. Batteries are the cheapest element by far in
    > digital photography. Why not just do what works best for each
    > individual's needs and replace batteries as needed? Why miss a wonderful
    > chance at a photograph because batteries might be injured by charging
    > too fast?
    > Allen


    Most folks I know avoid the problem by having several sets of batteries
    charged up and ready to go.
     
    ray, Jan 1, 2009
    #15
  16. lbbss

    ray Guest

    On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 03:48:16 -0600, Ron Hunter wrote:

    > ray wrote:
    >> On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:38:13 -0800, lbbss wrote:
    >>
    >>> I have NiMH batteries and have both Quick charger and slow Energizer
    >>> charger. Will I get more charges if I use slow charger? Also will
    >>> it last longer with slow charger? thanks.

    >>
    >> The answer to that question will depend a bit on how expensive the
    >> chargers are. Cheap 'come with' chargers generally have no smarts and
    >> will not do an optimal job of charging your batteries. A more expensive
    >> 'smart' charger will make them last as long as possible. Given that
    >> you're probably talking about cheap 'dumb' ones, the answer would most
    >> likely be that slower is better.

    >
    > I think your are oversimplifying it. A charger (smart) can be built to
    > charge faster, or to get the maximum charge into the battery, or to
    > preserved the number of recharges, not, generally, all three. Take the
    > chargers made for electric cars. They take a rather long time because
    > they want to extend the life of the batteries, rather than recharge as
    > fast as possible. Things like 15 minute chargers aren't concerned with
    > getting the maximum number of charges, or getting the maximum charge
    > possible into the battery, just returning them to a useful charge level
    > without destroying the battery.


    You are correct - it is an obvious over simplification to show the
    generalities.
     
    ray, Jan 1, 2009
    #16
  17. lbbss

    ASAAR Guest

    On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 10:15:08 -0600, Allen wrote:

    > One thing puzzles me about some people's concerns about getting the most
    > life out of batteries. Batteries are the cheapest element by far in
    > digital photography. Why not just do what works best for each
    > individual's needs and replace batteries as needed? Why miss a wonderful
    > chance at a photograph because batteries might be injured by charging
    > too fast?


    I don't think that this was addressed in the part of the thread
    that I saw, but I agree. Charging takes its toll whether the rate
    is fast or slow, and a battery's average performance/capacity over
    its lifetime is about the same, whether it was charged quickly or
    slowly, the primary difference being its lifetime. If NiMH
    batteries cost far more than they do this might be a concern, but
    they don't, and it's not, at least for me and thee. :)
     
    ASAAR, Jan 1, 2009
    #17
  18. lbbss

    ASAAR Guest

    On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:21:57 -0800, John Navas wrote:

    >> I don't think that this was addressed in the part of the thread
    >> that I saw, but I agree. Charging takes its toll whether the rate
    >> is fast or slow, and a battery's average performance/capacity over
    >> its lifetime is about the same, whether it was charged quickly or
    >> slowly, the primary difference being its lifetime. If NiMH
    >> batteries cost far more than they do this might be a concern, but
    >> they don't, and it's not, at least for me and thee. :)

    >
    > The great majority of consumer chargers aren't fast enough to do any
    > substantial harm to the batteries.


    Thanks for the irrelevant response. Or did you mistakenly assume
    that if any fast chargers exist they must have a large market share?


    > The only significant risk is from a charger that doesn't sense charge
    > completion properly and overcharges the batteries, as when a fast
    > NiCd charger is used on NiMH batteries, for which different charge
    > completion sensing is needed.


    Ah, I recall the good old days, when "Fast" NiCd chargers took
    from 5 to 7 hours to recharge 450 and 600mAh NiCd cells. Most of
    the fast chargers sold 4 to 5 years ago automatically sensed whether
    NiCd or NiMH cells were used. Earlier one allowed you to change a
    switch position to tell the charger whether you were using NiCd or
    NiMH cells. These days, it's usually assumed that only NiMH cells
    are used, and for good reason. Those that think they really need
    NiCd batteries (Such as you, for your flash units, although you're
    wrong. Did you miss the message that explained all or did your
    filter break?) should know where to go to get a compatible charger
    if they don't already have one. I have several, and they make
    excellent NiMH trickle chargers. :)
     
    ASAAR, Jan 1, 2009
    #18
  19. lbbss

    ASAAR Guest

    On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 10:56:32 -0800, John "Twitty" Navas wrote:

    >> [SNIP]

    >
    > Into the twit filter you go.


    I'd say "your loss", but you lost it long ago. Too bad that you
    can't tolerate when it's pointed out that your condescending remarks
    are either irrelevant or incorrect. The fuller your filter sack
    becomes, the greater your burden. You'll still be corrected as
    necessary, and if you don't see the corrections there won't be any
    loss as you wouldn't benefit from them even if you could see them.
     
    ASAAR, Jan 1, 2009
    #19
  20. Stephen Henning wrote:
    []
    > NiMH batteries are fairly robust. On the other hand, Lithium
    > batteries are light, but they are not robust. The can be destroyed
    > by completely discharging. Some brands of lithium batteries are much
    > more fragile.


    Lithium primary cells or Li-ion rechargeable? To me, the packaging shape
    is probably more important - I much prefer the single rectangular cell to
    multiple batteries which can be inserted the wrong way round. I like the
    lower self-discharge of Li-ion or Eneloops.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jan 1, 2009
    #20
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