Question on Photographic Terminology

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Pete, Sep 10, 2004.

  1. Pete

    Pete Guest

    What is term used when you chop up an image into small pieces, then
    re-arrange them in a new way?

    I believe the term mosaic is used when an image is made up from many
    different independent images. Maybe it applies here also?

    Anyone got the answer?

    TIA!
     
    Pete, Sep 10, 2004
    #1
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  2. Pete

    BobS Guest

    montage (montäzh', Fr. môNtäzh') , the art and technique of motion-picture
    editing in which contrasting shots or sequences are used to effect emotional
    or intellectual responses. It was developed creatively after 1925 by the
    Russian Sergei Eisenstein; since that time montage has become an
    increasingly complex and inventive way of extending the imaginative
    possibilities of film art. In still photography a composite picture, made by
    combining several prints, or parts of prints, and then rephotographing them
    as a whole, is often called a montage or a photomontage.

    Credit to: The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition

    That should eliminate mosaic....

    Bob S.


    "Pete" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > What is term used when you chop up an image into small pieces, then
    > re-arrange them in a new way?
    >
    > I believe the term mosaic is used when an image is made up from many
    > different independent images. Maybe it applies here also?
    >
    > Anyone got the answer?
    >
    > TIA!
     
    BobS, Sep 10, 2004
    #2
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  3. Pete

    mark_digital Guest

    "Pete" <> wrote in message news:...

    What is term used when you chop up an image into small pieces, then
    re-arrange them in a new way?
    ----------------------------
    ----------------------------
    I believe it's called getting-a-divorce.
    I've seen people do it many times.
    It's kinda like modern day voodoo.
    mark_
     
    mark_digital, Sep 11, 2004
    #3
  4. Pete

    Pete Guest

    On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:15:56 GMT, BobS wrote:

    > montage (montäzh', Fr. môNtäzh') ...
    > In still photography a composite picture, made by
    > combining several prints, or parts of prints, and then rephotographing them
    > as a whole, is often called a montage or a photomontage.


    Hmmm... not sure it's that easy.

    If you google the term "photomontage", the first few links will take you to
    sites obviously recognizing the common use of this term, where the pieces
    are NOT obtained from a single original, but from several disparate images
    or objects. See for example:

    http://www.cutandpaste.info/

    I don't see any evidence of one image chopped into piece then re-arranged.
    OTOH, I didn't check all 161,000 hits.
     
    Pete, Sep 11, 2004
    #4
  5. Pete

    BobS Guest

    Slacking off eh ?....

    Bob S.

    >
    > http://www.cutandpaste.info/
    >
    > I don't see any evidence of one image chopped into piece then re-arranged.
    > OTOH, I didn't check all 161,000 hits.
     
    BobS, Sep 11, 2004
    #5
  6. Pete <> writes:
    > What is term used when you chop up an image into small pieces, then
    > re-arrange them in a new way?


    Are you sure there is a specific term for it? I must admit that I've
    never seen any examples of this sort of technique.

    If you can provide a link to a photograph where this technique is
    used to good effect - it may ring some bells.

    > I believe the term mosaic is used when an image is made up from many
    > different independent images. Maybe it applies here also?


    It is called a "photomosaic" if the independend images doesn't make
    sense by themselves - and just contribute colour and tone to the
    composite.

    It is called a "photomontage" if the individual images that make up the
    composite is recognizable as pictures.

    But in both cases - the source of the composite is many different
    pictures - not a single image.
    --
    - gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
    ========================================================================
    «To live outside the law, you must be honest.» (Bob Dylan)
     
    Gisle Hannemyr, Sep 12, 2004
    #6
  7. Pete

    Guest

    On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:49:07 +0200, Gisle Hannemyr
    <> wrote:

    >Pete <> writes:
    >> What is term used when you chop up an image into small pieces, then
    >> re-arrange them in a new way?

    >
    >Are you sure there is a specific term for it? I must admit that I've
    >never seen any examples of this sort of technique.


    Confetti?
     
    , Sep 13, 2004
    #7
  8. wrote:

    > On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:49:07 +0200, Gisle Hannemyr
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Pete <> writes:
    >>
    >>>What is term used when you chop up an image into small pieces, then
    >>>re-arrange them in a new way?

    >>
    >>Are you sure there is a specific term for it? I must admit that I've
    >>never seen any examples of this sort of technique.

    >
    >
    > Confetti?
    >


    Mosaic?

    --
    Ben Thomas
    Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
    relate to the official business of my firm shall be understood as neither
    given nor endorsed by it.
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?BenOne=A9?=, Sep 13, 2004
    #8
  9. Pete

    HRosita Guest

    Mosaic

    Jigsaw

    Picasso
    Rosita
     
    HRosita, Sep 13, 2004
    #9
  10. Pete

    Matt Ion Guest

    Pete wrote:

    > What is term used when you chop up an image into small pieces, then
    > re-arrange them in a new way?


    Jigsaw puzzle? No, that would be mixing them up then rearranging them
    in the original way :)

    > I believe the term mosaic is used when an image is made up from many
    > different independent images. Maybe it applies here also?


    I believe it would (btw, this is general art terminology, not
    photo-specific).
     
    Matt Ion, Sep 13, 2004
    #10
  11. Pete

    Matt Ion Guest

    Gisle Hannemyr wrote:

    >>I believe the term mosaic is used when an image is made up from many
    >>different independent images. Maybe it applies here also?

    >
    >
    > It is called a "photomosaic" if the independend images doesn't make
    > sense by themselves - and just contribute colour and tone to the
    > composite.
    >
    > It is called a "photomontage" if the individual images that make up the
    > composite is recognizable as pictures.


    Pete, I'd have to agree with Gisle here as to the definitions of the two
    types of artwork. Whether it's a montage or a mosaic will depend mainly
    on the 'recognizability' and usage of the component pieces...

    > But in both cases - the source of the composite is many different
    > pictures - not a single image.


    Not necessarily. In a more general artistic scope, a mosaic can be made
    up of any sort of colored objects: tiles, squares of paper, even
    macaroni noodles (thinking back to a first-grade project). Whether the
    colored bits of paper in this case from from just shredding one
    photograph, or using pieces of many, is irrelevant: a mosaic is a mosaic.

    As for the montage, same question: what's the difference if the
    individual elements were shot indivudually, or shot all on one frame and
    then cut apart, once it gets to the montage-creation stage? The end
    product is still, by definition, a montage.
     
    Matt Ion, Sep 13, 2004
    #11
  12. Pete

    Pete Guest

    On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:49:07 +0200, Gisle Hannemyr wrote:

    > Are you sure there is a specific term for it? I must admit that I've
    > never seen any examples of this sort of technique.
    >
    > If you can provide a link to a photograph where this technique is
    > used to good effect - it may ring some bells.


    Gisle:

    Here are some samples to ring your bells!

    http://www.tangotools.com/samples/

    Pete
     
    Pete, Sep 14, 2004
    #12
  13. Pete

    Hunt Guest

    In article <zko1d.421740$gE.85958@pd7tw3no>, says...
    >
    >Pete wrote:
    >
    >> What is term used when you chop up an image into small pieces, then
    >> re-arrange them in a new way?

    >
    >Jigsaw puzzle? No, that would be mixing them up then rearranging them
    >in the original way :)
    >
    >> I believe the term mosaic is used when an image is made up from many
    >> different independent images. Maybe it applies here also?

    >
    >I believe it would (btw, this is general art terminology, not
    >photo-specific).


    Depending on how critical one wishes to be with the definition, and the source
    of the definiton, a mosaic can consist of elements that are arranged to create
    an image. One mosaic technique is to put an image on a breakable substrate,
    break it, and then assemble it with the cracks, etc.

    Hunt
     
    Hunt, Sep 14, 2004
    #13
  14. Pete

    Pete Guest

    On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:41:57 GMT, Matt Ion wrote:

    > Gisle Hannemyr wrote:
    >
    > >>I believe the term mosaic is used when an image is made up from many
    >>>different independent images. Maybe it applies here also?

    >>
    >> It is called a "photomosaic" if the independend images doesn't make
    >> sense by themselves - and just contribute colour and tone to the
    >> composite.
    >>
    >> It is called a "photomontage" if the individual images that make up the
    >> composite is recognizable as pictures.

    >
    > Pete, I'd have to agree with Gisle here as to the definitions of the two
    > types of artwork. Whether it's a montage or a mosaic will depend mainly
    > on the 'recognizability' and usage of the component pieces...
    >
    >> But in both cases - the source of the composite is many different
    >> pictures - not a single image.

    >
    > Not necessarily. In a more general artistic scope, a mosaic can be made
    > up of any sort of colored objects: tiles, squares of paper, even
    > macaroni noodles (thinking back to a first-grade project). Whether the
    > colored bits of paper in this case from from just shredding one
    > photograph, or using pieces of many, is irrelevant: a mosaic is a mosaic.
    >
    > As for the montage, same question: what's the difference if the
    > individual elements were shot indivudually, or shot all on one frame and
    > then cut apart, once it gets to the montage-creation stage? The end
    > product is still, by definition, a montage.


    The problem with mosaic, montage and even collage is that they are (almost)
    always used in photography to mean something different from what I
    described. I was hoping for a specific term from the art world in general
    or the modern world of photography.

    I found an example of something similar in the book "Flora Photographica"
    (Plate 108), which was described as a composite (which just happens to be a
    term that Gisle used above). The result was the same as I'm describing, but
    in this case the image was made up from many polaroid prints of parts of
    the same subject, rather like NASA piecing together images from space.

    Webster's does have an entry for "composite photograph": "a photograph made
    by superimposing one or more photographs on another." This sounds
    suspicously like a montage, which brings us full circle.

    If there is no term for what I've described, let's have some suggestions!
    So far we've had:

    confetti, jigsaw and a few others

    .... and I might add

    photochop (!), photodice, photoslice

    I've provided some samples for those interested at:

    http://www.tangotools.com/samples/

    Pete
     
    Pete, Sep 14, 2004
    #14
  15. Pete wrote:
    >
    > photochop (!), photodice, photoslice


    It slices, it dices, it chops, it cuts, it.....
    >
    > I've provided some samples for those interested at:
    >
    > http://www.tangotools.com/samples/
    >

    Very interesting compositions. Or de-montages! Since you start with a
    complete image, and thru PS slice and dice into a new art form, maybe
    de-montage would work.

    But I am not in art marketing, nor even play one on tv.

    --
    John McWilliams
     
    John McWilliams, Sep 14, 2004
    #15
  16. Pete <> writes:
    > On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:49:07 +0200, Gisle Hannemyr wrote:


    >> Are you sure there is a specific term for it? I must admit that I've
    >> never seen any examples of this sort of technique.
    >>
    >> If you can provide a link to a photograph where this technique is
    >> used to good effect - it may ring some bells.


    > Here are some samples to ring your bells!
    > http://www.tangotools.com/samples/


    Interesting.

    I don't know about a specifically /photographic/ term for this
    technique - but some of it reminds me of the "cut-up" literary
    technique used by baet author William Burroughs. Here is a quote
    (taken from Barry Miles biography) where Burroughs discusses it:

    "I began experimenting. Of course, when you think of it, 'The Waste
    Land' was the first great cut-up collage, and Tristan Tzara had
    done a bit along the same lines. Dos Passos used the same idea in
    'The Camera Eye' sequence in USA. I felt I had been working toward
    the same goal; thus it was a major revelation to me when I actually
    saw it being done. Any narrative passage or any passage, say, of
    poetic images is subject to any number of variations, all of which
    may be interesting and valid in their own right. A page of Rimbaud
    cut up and rearranged will give you quite new images - real Rimbaud
    images - but new ones. Cut-ups establish new connections between
    images, and one's range of vision consequently expands."
    - Barry Miles: William Burroughs:
    El Hombre Invisible Virgin 2002

    All Burroughs' references are to prose, but at the same time, he
    talks about "images" and "vision". I also find it interesting that
    Dos Passos uses the term "Camera Eye" for the sections in his
    USA-trilogy where he re-arranges text taken from newspapers and
    biographies (my paperback edition of "The Big Money" even have a
    huge camera on its cover).

    So - unless somebody comes up with a better term - maybe you can
    call them "cuts-up"?
    --
    - gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
    ========================================================================
    «To live outside the law, you must be honest.» (Bob Dylan)
     
    Gisle Hannemyr, Sep 14, 2004
    #16
  17. Pete

    Guest

    On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:18:29 -0700, Pete <> wrote:

    >On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:41:57 GMT, Matt Ion wrote:
    >
    >> Gisle Hannemyr wrote:
    >>
    >> >>I believe the term mosaic is used when an image is made up from many
    >>>>different independent images. Maybe it applies here also?
    >>>
    >>> It is called a "photomosaic" if the independend images doesn't make
    >>> sense by themselves - and just contribute colour and tone to the
    >>> composite.
    >>>
    >>> It is called a "photomontage" if the individual images that make up the
    >>> composite is recognizable as pictures.

    >>
    >> Pete, I'd have to agree with Gisle here as to the definitions of the two
    >> types of artwork. Whether it's a montage or a mosaic will depend mainly
    >> on the 'recognizability' and usage of the component pieces...
    >>
    >>> But in both cases - the source of the composite is many different
    >>> pictures - not a single image.

    >>
    >> Not necessarily. In a more general artistic scope, a mosaic can be made
    >> up of any sort of colored objects: tiles, squares of paper, even
    >> macaroni noodles (thinking back to a first-grade project). Whether the
    >> colored bits of paper in this case from from just shredding one
    >> photograph, or using pieces of many, is irrelevant: a mosaic is a mosaic.
    >>
    >> As for the montage, same question: what's the difference if the
    >> individual elements were shot indivudually, or shot all on one frame and
    >> then cut apart, once it gets to the montage-creation stage? The end
    >> product is still, by definition, a montage.

    >
    >The problem with mosaic, montage and even collage is that they are (almost)
    >always used in photography to mean something different from what I
    >described. I was hoping for a specific term from the art world in general
    >or the modern world of photography.
    >
    >I found an example of something similar in the book "Flora Photographica"
    >(Plate 108), which was described as a composite (which just happens to be a
    >term that Gisle used above). The result was the same as I'm describing, but
    >in this case the image was made up from many polaroid prints of parts of
    >the same subject, rather like NASA piecing together images from space.


    Or the ad <for whatever> currently running on TV where the kid
    takes a couple dozen pics of his father as he's leaving for work so he
    can print and reassemble the parts into a lifesixe poster of Dad to
    drape on the couch.

    >Webster's does have an entry for "composite photograph": "a photograph made
    >by superimposing one or more photographs on another." This sounds
    >suspicously like a montage, which brings us full circle.
    >
    >If there is no term for what I've described, let's have some suggestions!
    >So far we've had:
    >
    >confetti, jigsaw and a few others
    >
    >... and I might add
    >
    >photochop (!), photodice, photoslice
    >
    >I've provided some samples for those interested at:
    >
    >http://www.tangotools.com/samples/
    >
    >Pete
     
    , Sep 14, 2004
    #17
  18. Gisle Hannemyr <> writes:
    > So - unless somebody comes up with a better term - maybe you can
    > call them "cuts-up"?


    Ahem ... or rather "cut-ups".
    --
    - gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
    ========================================================================
    «To live outside the law, you must be honest.» (Bob Dylan)
     
    Gisle Hannemyr, Sep 14, 2004
    #18
  19. [OT] Language was: Question on Photog....

    Gisle Hannemyr wrote:
    > Gisle Hannemyr <> writes:
    >
    >>So - unless somebody comes up with a better term - maybe you can
    >>call them "cuts-up"?

    >
    >
    > Ahem ... or rather "cut-ups".


    Dang, G, you're far better at English than most of us native speakers!

    I missed the switch, possibly because I believe a more commonly used
    term, time out, really ought to have as its plural, "times out", but at
    this point, I am in a tiny minority on that.

    And, in N. California where I live, grocery chains have aisles marked
    "Can goods"- way easier to print than "canned".....

    --
    John McWilliams
     
    John McWilliams, Sep 14, 2004
    #19
  20. Pete

    Matt Ion Guest

    Pete wrote:

    > Webster's does have an entry for "composite photograph": "a photograph made
    > by superimposing one or more photographs on another." This sounds
    > suspicously like a montage, which brings us full circle.


    Not at all. Superimposing pictures on each other is not the same as
    arranging portions of them in a puzzle-like fashion. Pieces of a
    montage are generally not superimposed (they may overlap, but being
    opaque, they're not superimposed).
     
    Matt Ion, Sep 16, 2004
    #20
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