Question on digital settings

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by focusclick, Aug 21, 2003.

  1. focusclick

    focusclick Guest

    Is it better to set the digital camera( Nikon D1 ) on the B&W seting to take
    B&W images or is it best to take the pictures in color first and change it
    to B&W with Nikon editor?.
    focusclick, Aug 21, 2003
    #1
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  2. focusclick

    Canongirly Guest

    Setting the camera to B/W will make your capture files smaller so therefore
    you can get more on your storage device/medium.

    Only drawback would be if you wanted to see an image in colour having shot
    it in B/W you can't go back, whereas shooting it in colour and greyscaling
    later will give you the choice (though obvioulsy the colour file sizes will
    be greater and therefore less images on your storage device/medium).


    "focusclick" <> wrote in message
    news:rF11b.17697$...
    > Is it better to set the digital camera( Nikon D1 ) on the B&W seting to

    take
    > B&W images or is it best to take the pictures in color first and change it
    > to B&W with Nikon editor?.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Canongirly, Aug 21, 2003
    #2
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  3. focusclick

    Tom Thackrey Guest

    On 21-Aug-2003, Dana Laffit <> wrote:

    > > Is it better to set the digital camera( Nikon D1 ) on the B&W seting to
    > > take
    > > B&W images or is it best to take the pictures in color first and change
    > > it
    > > to B&W with Nikon editor?.

    >
    > It is always better to shoot everything in color and make the decision
    > afterwards. This way, you have both B&W and Color versions of every
    > shot you
    > take.


    I agree, because the camera shoots it in color anyway. Conversion to BW in
    the post-processing gives you a lot of control. If you do it in camera, you
    are depending on the choices made by the camera's software.

    >
    > This reminds me of the people who complain that Turner colorized old
    > classic B&W
    > movies. All you have to do is turn the color completely down (which you
    > can
    > do on any television set) and you have your classic B&W movie back.
    > With
    > colorization, everyone can watch the movie the way they want, but leaving
    > it in
    > B&W means everyone is forced to watch it that way.


    Except that desaturating the colorized movie isn't the same as the BW
    original. Colorizing reduces contrast among other things.

    >
    > Taking the shots in color you can later have a CHOICE of if you want that
    > picture in color or B&W, but if you take the picture in B&W you are
    > screwed.
    >
    > Using the camera's B&W mode is like taking a picture out of focus. You
    > can
    > always lose that picture information later, but why not record everything
    > you
    > can and decide what to throw away or distort later?




    --
    Tom Thackrey
    www.creative-light.com
    Tom Thackrey, Aug 21, 2003
    #3
  4. Dana Laffit <> writes:

    >This reminds me of the people who complain that Turner colorized old classic B&W
    >movies. All you have to do is turn the color completely down (which you can
    >do on any television set) and you have your classic B&W movie back.


    Are you sure that is true? If the "colorization" was done in such a way
    that the Y (luminance) component of every pixel remained the same, and
    only the hue and saturation were changed, then you get the same B&W
    image back by turning the colour down.

    But if the colorized version was done by choosing "pleasing" RGB values,
    or if it included altering contrast or hand retouching, the B&W
    information is also altered.

    Dave
    Dave Martindale, Aug 21, 2003
    #4
  5. focusclick

    George Kerby Guest

    On 8/21/03 1:11 PM, in article
    DX71b.2764$, "Tom Thackrey"
    <> wrote:

    >
    > On 21-Aug-2003, Dana Laffit <> wrote:
    >
    >>> Is it better to set the digital camera( Nikon D1 ) on the B&W seting to
    >>> take
    >>> B&W images or is it best to take the pictures in color first and change
    >>> it
    >>> to B&W with Nikon editor?.

    >>
    >> It is always better to shoot everything in color and make the decision
    >> afterwards. This way, you have both B&W and Color versions of every
    >> shot you
    >> take.

    >
    > I agree, because the camera shoots it in color anyway. Conversion to BW in
    > the post-processing gives you a lot of control. If you do it in camera, you
    > are depending on the choices made by the camera's software.
    >
    >>
    >> This reminds me of the people who complain that Turner colorized old
    >> classic B&W
    >> movies. All you have to do is turn the color completely down (which you
    >> can
    >> do on any television set) and you have your classic B&W movie back.
    >> With
    >> colorization, everyone can watch the movie the way they want, but leaving
    >> it in
    >> B&W means everyone is forced to watch it that way.

    >
    > Except that desaturating the colorized movie isn't the same as the BW
    > original. Colorizing reduces contrast among other things.
    >
    >>
    >> Taking the shots in color you can later have a CHOICE of if you want that
    >> picture in color or B&W, but if you take the picture in B&W you are
    >> screwed.
    >>
    >> Using the camera's B&W mode is like taking a picture out of focus. You
    >> can
    >> always lose that picture information later, but why not record everything
    >> you
    >> can and decide what to throw away or distort later?

    >
    >

    Simple answer. Like the days of film:
    Camera 1 ---> B/W
    Camera 2 ---> Color
    When client requests transparencies and b/w, I carry either multiple bodies
    or multiple backs. Now with sports/action and other similar stuff:
    One camera with transparency (slide) film ---> color interneg --->
    b/w Panalure print


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    George Kerby, Aug 21, 2003
    #5
  6. focusclick

    Ed Ruf Guest

    On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:36:02 +0100, in rec.photo.digital "Canongirly"
    <> wrote:

    >Setting the camera to B/W will make your capture files smaller so therefore
    >you can get more on your storage device/medium.


    Not a tremendous amount. While there may only be 256 "colors" or shades
    contained within a B&W image from my 99/5700, they are still saved as 16M
    color jpegs. So the savings actually come from a slight bit of additional
    compression gained. A quick check shows 1.56MB vs 1.37MB for my 5700 on the
    same outdoor subject with ~300,000 colors in the color image.
    ________________________________________________________
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    http://members.cox.net/egruf
    See images taken with my CP-990 and 5700 at
    http://members.cox.net/egruf-digicam
    Ed Ruf, Aug 21, 2003
    #6
  7. focusclick

    Dana Laffit Guest

    > >Setting the camera to B/W will make your capture files smaller so therefore
    > >you can get more on your storage device/medium.

    >
    > Not a tremendous amount.


    You know, that argument made as much sense as telling someone to always save the
    pictures at the lowest quality JPEG setting for the same reason.

    Sure you save file space when you throw away more information.

    The only reason there was B&W photography was because the technology for color
    film wasn't invented yet. The reason we had morse code, is because telephones
    and voice modulated radio wasn't invented yet.

    Taking pictures in B&W is like talking to someone over the phone by pounding out
    morse code on the touch tone pad instead of talking into the microphone, or
    using a washboard to clean your clothes instead of a washing machine.

    > While there may only be 256 "colors" or shades
    > contained within a B&W image from my 99/5700, they are still saved as 16M
    > color jpegs. So the savings actually come from a slight bit of additional
    > compression gained.


    Yeah, using the washing machine uses up more electricity than the washboard, but
    that argument for using a washboard is the same as how much file space a color
    photograph takes over a B&W one. The world is in COLOR and that is how we
    should photograph it. We print the photos on paper instead of scratching
    them out on the walls of caves because we have the technology now.

    Do people who take photos in B&W go to work on horseback instead of by car?
    Do they still buy B&W television sets, or do they own color ones yet?

    Just wondering.
    Dana Laffit, Aug 21, 2003
    #7
  8. focusclick

    George Kerby Guest

    On 8/21/03 2:24 PM, in article , "Dana Laffit"
    <> wrote:

    >>> This reminds me of the people who complain that Turner colorized old classic
    >>> B&W
    >>> movies. All you have to do is turn the color completely down (which you
    >>> can
    >>> do on any television set) and you have your classic B&W movie back.

    >>
    >> Are you sure that is true? If the "colorization" was done in such a way
    >> that the Y (luminance) component of every pixel remained the same, and
    >> only the hue and saturation were changed, then you get the same B&W
    >> image back by turning the colour down.

    >
    > In the US, the way NTSC video works, is that all of the video is in B&W
    > anyway, this
    > was so that all the B&W television sets would not be obsolete when the new
    > color sets
    > came out. (same as all FM broadcasts are mono on the main carrier so that
    > old mono
    > radios will still work)
    >
    > Besides, you can adjust the contrast on your TV set as well. You want that
    > colorized movie back in black and white, you've got it. And the kind of
    > people
    > that complain about movies being colorized are not the ones that would notice
    > any
    > difference between two types of black and white versions anyway, so
    > Shhhhhhhhhhh!
    > Before you get them started on something else to bitch and moan about.
    >
    >> But if the colorized version was done by choosing "pleasing" RGB values,
    >> or if it included altering contrast or hand retouching, the B&W
    >> information is also altered.

    >
    > Since we are talking Television here (and at least for me, NTSC television)

    NTSC = "Never Twice Same Color"


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    George Kerby, Aug 21, 2003
    #8
  9. focusclick

    dslr Guest

    George Kerby wrote:
    >
    > > Since we are talking Television here (and at least for me, NTSC television)

    > NTSC = "Never Twice Same Color"
    >


    Along with NICAM - "Never Intended to Carry Any Music" ;-)

    --
    regards,
    dslr
    dslr, Aug 21, 2003
    #9
  10. focusclick

    Tom Thackrey Guest

    On 21-Aug-2003, George Kerby <> wrote:

    > Simple answer. Like the days of film:
    > Camera 1 ---> B/W
    > Camera 2 ---> Color
    > When client requests transparencies and b/w, I carry either multiple
    > bodies
    > or multiple backs. Now with sports/action and other similar stuff:
    > One camera with transparency (slide) film ---> color interneg --->
    > b/w Panalure print


    There aren't very many B&W digital cameras out there. Those that do both are
    actually shooting in color and converting to B&W. The conversion is
    something I'd rather do myself in Photoshop than leave up to the camera's
    firmware.

    --
    Tom Thackrey
    www.creative-light.com
    Tom Thackrey, Aug 21, 2003
    #10
  11. focusclick

    George Kerby Guest

    On 8/21/03 5:11 PM, in article
    5sb1b.3883$, "Tom Thackrey"
    <> wrote:

    >
    > On 21-Aug-2003, George Kerby <> wrote:
    >
    >> Simple answer. Like the days of film:
    >> Camera 1 ---> B/W
    >> Camera 2 ---> Color
    >> When client requests transparencies and b/w, I carry either multiple
    >> bodies
    >> or multiple backs. Now with sports/action and other similar stuff:
    >> One camera with transparency (slide) film ---> color interneg --->
    >> b/w Panalure print

    >
    > There aren't very many B&W digital cameras out there. Those that do both are
    > actually shooting in color and converting to B&W. The conversion is
    > something I'd rather do myself in Photoshop than leave up to the camera's
    > firmware.

    I agree with you 100% I was responding to someone who posted about a
    black&white mode setting that was built into some camera that I new nothing
    of. I was making an analogy for someone who was bitching about dropping the
    saturation to zero not being the same as shooting in the "pure" b&w mode, or
    something of that nature...


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    George Kerby, Aug 21, 2003
    #11
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